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Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by anon1mous, Jul 24, 2009.

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What's the best course of action here?

Have RightOn continue to update the list on the forum, based on thread input 15 vote(s) 25.4%
ONLY allow updates to the list through the Wiki, allowing it to be edited by all 24 vote(s) 40.7%
Some sort of hybrid approach (discuss) 20 vote(s) 33.9%
  1. anon1mous Member

    Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    I started up a thread recently that brought some renewed attention to RightOn's list of ex-scientologists who have spoken out.

    The response was great, and the renewed interest bumped up the confirmed list to somewhere around 400 names. There are still an estimated 50 or so names which have yet to be confirmed which must be added to the list.

    Since the inception of the wiki, there's been a bit of disagreement about how the list should be managed. RightOn has been doing a superb job of adding and verifying names, but some others wanted to help out, so they created a wiki page.

    Some of the proponents of having RightOn continue to update the list argue that the wiki page will become unreliable, while proponents of the wiki approach say that the hive can manage itself. Others still think that a hybrid "just update both" approach might work. Personally, I think that it is simply not realistic or practical to have both open to be edited at the same time, because it is simply too much hassle to keep one synchronized to the other due to formatting differences et al.

    It should also be mentioned that if the wiki approach (OPTION 2) is taken, the thread would remain open for input, the only difference being that the OP would link to the wiki.

    RightOn has been quite clear that he does not wish to leaderfag here, we're just trying to figure out the best solution. What do you think? Should RightOn continue to maintain the list as he has been, or should the community manage it directly on the wiki?
  2. timthephoto Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    is it possible for a wiki page to be assigned a moderator and editors?

    i know it's a bit "control freak"...
    but my suggestion would be to make righton mod for the page (best leaders have it thrown upon them) and allow righton to add editors as they present themselves? ie - a team effort
  3. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    At this time, RightOn has expressed that he does not wish to edit the wiki itself. As the wiki software is right now, there is no mod capability but it could be arranged if enough people agreed on this.

    As a person who understands how wikis work, I also know that the list can be monitored by enough people that continually verify the names, improve the formatting, add new information, and remove any bad information. My opinion is that taking the open (wiki) approach will be the most productive, with the possibilities of something going wrong being fairly low.
  4. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Took my 2 cents from the other thread:

    As auchraw suggested, is this is a hive project?
    I mean YES of course it is a hive project, and everyone is contributing links, info and names...but should it be that anyone can edit the Wiki?

    I also like the suggestion of from madhair:
    "Why not incorporate both approaches? Have one ‘validated’ list and another for the hive to wiki on. Every few days add any new names that check out onto the ‘validated’ list."

    Somebody else suggested to take the list of to 500 here, and then stop it here and add all new names to the wiki.

    Some possible problems with the wiki....
    will the list fall to the way side after a few months when people don't feel like working on it any more or lose interest? Or go back to school?
    All links and names have to be checked, dont' know if everyone will do that when they make entries on the Wiki?
    I also feel the list should be here, cause it is where people hang.

    I will glady continue the list here and then pass on the updates to whomever wants to update the wiki.
    Or I will glady pass the torch if the majority says to only have the list updated on the Wiki from now on.
    Don't want to be in the way of progress, as I said before, and I want whats best.

    So you decide whats best.

    Your choice.
    The outcome will be from the voice of the hive.
  5. timthephoto Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    i have it on good authority that there's a wiki plugin for OpenOffice.org - so you make your page in the word processor, with pictures and everything and save it out as wiki, just copy/paste into the wiki it'self
  6. da5id Administrator

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Each time a page is updated, an entry is made into it's history that clearly shows what was updated, when, etc. This makes it very easy to monitor the page for changes that are suspect. Given the high profile that this article has, it is easy to understand that it would be watched very closely. Combine this with a diehard 'dox or gtfo' attitude and it becomes very difficult to surreptitiously edit false information into it (for more than a few hours at least).

    IMO, that is no less secure than creating a thread in which anyone can post.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Here is the history of which da5id speaks.
  8. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Wiki, with all due respect to RightOn.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    One spot to record information instead of 2 is always a better way to go. Less headaches. If you go with the wiki (probably the easiest for everyone) you might want to spell out at the top what would constitute a name being verified.
  10. none given Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    .
  11. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Quoted from the wiki:

  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    sorry - missed that. cocks and such.
  13. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Nothing to do with respect. We just want a solution.
    But thank you
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    lol I updated it as per your suggestion, you didn't really miss it :)
  15. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    why do people post replies Anonymously for a poll?
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Allow people to submit names in whatever way they want - on the thread, on the wiki, PM, email, whatever. It doesn't matter when people go to the beach or back to school.

    Anyone who wants to maintain a verified, official, list may be able to do so - can be another wiki, at the OP, or whatever. Taking input from any of the above sources.

    tl;dr; whatever
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    :(

    That's a real shame, and I hope RightOn reconsiders. The Wiki is most definitely the right venue for this - and I'd hope RightOn would take a primary role [I mean leadership role, really] in ensuring its quality.

    I would hope at the very least that he would at least give it a go to start with - he might yet find it a more satisfying and productive experience than he suspects.

    But ultimately, regardless, wiki.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    ^THIS
  19. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Are you volunteering to reconcile the two lists every couple of days? Seriously guys, consider the hassle of merging a forum OP (that has no edit history available) with the wiki (which uses different formatting, and might have had a few names modified, reordered, or tweaked in some way.

    Its too much work, and its a waste of our resources (time that could be better spent finding and adding new names). The solution is to allow anyone to comment anywhere, but only have one location where the official list is updated (the wiki). All changes are visible in the history, and anyone can fix a minor detail that the OP would have missed.

    And on the argument that quality will degrade: Yes, it is possible. But consider that if enough people are watching the page (which they are, I can assure you), the opposite will happen. Wikipedia has featured articles which are the product of thousands of people.

    Why be bound by one person who handles all the formatting, verification, and updating?
    What if that person has a family emergency and can't handle the list for a couple of weeks at a time?
    What if Scientology puts their resources into tracking down that one individual?
    Why not open ourselves up to improvement on a massive (hive) scale?
    Why not allow Anonymous to do what it does best? (finding and sharing information)

    Forums are for discussion.
    Wikis are for collaboration on a large scale to produce a final product.
  20. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Wiki.
  21. theLastAnon Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Although I'm just getting back into the swing of things around here after a prolonged absence (and thus, my opinion may not carry nearly any value at all, granted), my 2 cents is to go with the wiki for verified updates, but keep a thread (not necessarily the original thread) going-not for keeping the list, but for reporting updates back to WWP and discussion on possible ex's. So, when someone updates the wiki, the should automatically also post a note in the thread like "Hey, confirmed X and Y and added them to the wiki."

    Other commentary in the thread could be directed to topics like "I heard from so-and-so that A is now out. Can anyone confirm?"

    That would satisfy maintaining one location for the list, while not losing the forum momentum of regular updates.
  22. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    That is exactly the approach I'm advocating with OPTION TWO.
  23. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    bumping for justice and people get off your ass and vote ! eerrr.... please?
  24. theLastAnon Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    I suck cocks apparently as I didn't catch that the first time. Just re-read your OP and saw it. Doh!

    So my vote was incorrectly cast for Option 3, rather than Option 2. I feel like a retired Jew in Palm Beach! Damnit, I voted for Pat Buchanan!
  25. happy feet Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Get this into google docs because a spreadsheet is better anyways for adding fields.
  26. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    No Google. Google is not your friend because you cannot trust Google. Also, this is a database project, not spreadsheet, unless you are talking about an advanced type with multiple pages interlinking and such. Reason being, there are some data structures here which won't make sense in a single table. I'm thinking in particular of positions held, which could be tracked in a single text-type field, but would make more sense as a separate linked table, allowing for any number of entries per person.
  27. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    I'm assuming they support edit history?
  28. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    I think that this project is still in its infancy. I'm not even so concerned with adding umpteen pieces of information, just a name and a link. Much more can be added when the time is right.

    A database might be nice once more names are collected, but right now it just needs to be easy, transparent. Wiki has edit history, and can easily be moderated.
  29. Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Bump

    Only 26 votes?
  30. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Indeed.
    where is everyone?
  31. Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Yeah, only 28 now. We need some vote bots!
  32. Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    OK I'll respond because you're obviously thinking not enough people care, which I do. Actually I haven't voted because I really can't formulate an informed opinion.

    RightOn has done a great job so far, but the project probably has grown or will soon grow beyond the capacity of the current methodology. Since I know nothing about wiki-ing (is a word?) I can't say what the best next step would be.

    If it were my private project I'd probably put it on a spreadsheet, but that's probably as old-fashioned as fuck. Soooo I dunno what to recommend other than to state a concern regarding potential nefarious edits and loss of control of the entire information set.

    It appears there are several applications waiting in the wings for whatever gets decided..eg legal information, 'doxin Moxon', etc. Smarter cmpt types than I are going to have to make the call.

    very impressive initiative RightOn btw
  33. timthephoto Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    i didn't vote because i'm stupid and blind in the first place, also because option2 has the rider "allow anyone"
  34. Olrik Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    lol
  35. qwertyuiop1 Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Why dont we add an addendum to each name that says whether its verified or not. assign one person to moderate this but leave the list open for edit. once the name is verified it is locked so as not to be changeable.
  36. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    I didn't vote because I was hey, this is really shiny...
  37. Mutante Member

  38. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    Question..... I did a search for the title of the list on Google:
    List of ex-Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out
    Check for yourself.

    The wiki doesn't come up at all, at least on the first page. Didn't check the 2nd page

    My question is.... how prominent will the wiki be in a google search?
    I know it's brand new, and I am not a computer savy person at all.... but how long will it take for it to come up on the first page of Google?
    Or is this a dumb question?
  39. anon1mous Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    The PageRank of a site is generally determined by a number of factors, such as how widely linked a page is on external sites. Also, URLs that are easier to remember tend to be found more readily, such as the ones used on the wiki.

    The wiki, since it is very new and not widely linked yet, appears on the last result on the first page of this search. This will only improve with time, as more people link to it.

    A similar thing happened with whoisdavidmiscavige.com, which is now the sixth result in google.

    TL;DR The "cleaner" that links are (easier to remember), and the more widely linked, the higher the search result
  40. RightOn Member

    Re: Your vote/opinion is needed: On the wiki and list of ex-scientologists

    thanks for the explanation,
    I must be blind, I still dont see it

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