Woh, This is Interesting (Narconon)

Discussion in 'CoS Front Groups' started by anoninoob, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. who collects the money donated and what is it used for?? I could probably find this info somewhere on this site but thought I would just ask....

    Yes....I left with my sanity and self all intact....!! thanks
  2. Anonymous Member

    Online service doesn't just fall out of the sky. There are expenses involved in keeping a site like this up and active. Mods volunteer. Others contribute $$$ to keep the site up.

    The rest of it we save for the annual ARSCC wdne lime jello and goat end of the year celebration.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Money donated to this site is used to pay for the cost of keeping it running. The people running the site don't get paid, they all volunteer.

    Still waiting to hear your story....
    • Like Like x 1
  4. RightOn Member

    why important?
    just curious
  5. Anonymous Member

    So... can you tell us something about what you have done to fight Scientology's Narconon? Or about your experience? Or about your plans? Anything?
  6. yes....I meant to come back a couple of days ago, but I have been swamped with work, and I wanted to spend a little time answering some of the questions, or at least contributing "my story".... I think I'll do this in two parts... my history and NN

    here it is in a nutshell....

    I grew up in a good middle/upper middle class family. My folks were good, hard working people with a good set of typical values and morals, which they raised me with. I did pretty well thru school and although I think we had the normal amount of dysfunction, maybe a little more than normal, as my brother had an alcohol/drug problem as a teenager. I did the "normal" things most people do. I went to college, worked, and got married. Divorced a few years later .........became part owner in a business....went back to school as a nursing major and got married again......Never had an issue with drugs or alcohol, and in fact was pretty opposed to it personally because of what I had gone thru and my family had gone thru with my brother. My brother and I have basically been disconnected since 1992.

    In 1995, my husband and I had a drastic change in our relationship and with his work in the military. Somehow, it effected me very strongly and without tons of detail I became very unstable emotionally. I sought therapy and was referred to a psych also for medications. My life got worse. At the end of 9 months of increasing depression, I was introduced to Meth. For a few months it changed my life for the better, but then turned into a slide into the world of drugs and criminals. I was as naive as they come as got enmeshed in a life that was insane. Within a few months I was separated, homeless, and becoming more and more involved in criminal activity. I was arrested. This started a 2 year cycle of relapse, treatment, relapse, .... I was finally able to put alittle time together clean and got a job, and went back to school. It was during this time that I went to stay with my brother , at the urging of my parents, to try to reconcile and "become a family". His drug use and violent attacks on me and his long term girlfriend became unbearable. my mom kept urging to stay and work it out...I went back to drugs as a way I guess of coping...

    My father suddenly passed away, which got me back to California to take care of my mom.... and away from active drug use again......but within 8 months, I was using a little here and there and that soon escalated into using ALOT. I'm not going to go into all the details of all the issues, justifications, excuses, of why and how it just did....and got pretty ugly with the stealing, lying, manipulation to support what had become a $300-400 a DAY habit.

    My mom did an intervention on me with her two oldest friends and tried offering me rehab once again. I, in my delusional and irrational drug induced state of mind, chose to take to the streets, with the thinking that I could somehow make back all the money that had been spent over that 10 month period and get back in her life.......

    What occurred over the next 6 months until my last arrest on Nov 28, 2000, was more hard core drug use and criminal behavior than the worst of the movies... I became a person that I NEVER believed I could be, and to this day it seems surreal. I know every detail of every day of that 10 months, and I will spend the rest of my life making sure that I work towards bettering my world and the people in it, to make up for the damage that I caused my own life and anyone else's that came into contact with me.

    This is how I came to Narconon, on Feb 2 2001. A beat, hopeless, woman who had a pretty severe criminal situation hanging over my head.....I had just turned 36 yo.
    • Like Like x 5
  7. no reason really...was just wondering what the expenses might be...I will donate as I can....after working for NN and raising a TON of money I just wanted to know how it might be used
  8. I will cont. with my NN experience,
    I don't think I've really done anything at this point(yet) to fight SCN, but I will tell you all about my experiences at NN and what I did to try to stop it,
    and as far as plans...I don't know!!??
    I simply saw what was posted about me and it prompted me to respond...
    I feel that has started something in motion and I cant tell you where that will lead...but I can promise this....I WILL tell the FULL truth about anything asked.... by either side of this....That is one of my biggest issues... is the deceit, and hidden agendas....
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Anonymous Member

    That's a tragic story staytruetoyourself. Thanks for sharing. I hope things have improved for you.
  10. Zak McKracken Member

    Those are good reasons.
    I'll try to explain why we got a little suspicious when you asked.

    #1) Scientology (the larger group, outside of Narconon) has an elaborate system of deceit and trickery that you're probably quite familiar with. Much of it is for fooling the outside, but some of it is for fooling people on the inside. One of the staple arguments they give insiders is:
    ALL critical activity, from individuals, groups and governments that works against Scientology is part of an elaborate conspiracy, funded and promoted by the pharmaceutical industry. Global Psychiatry is specific and discrete enemy. When global Anonymous protests began in February 2008, CoS management told their members that the protesters were being directly paid by the Psyches. Back then, many Scientologists actually believed that. For Anons on the other hand, it was considered a pretty amazingly silly joke. We don't get paid nuttin. We do this for "fun" or because we have a stick up our butt. But Anons further the joke, by complaining about how our Psych handlers have been slow in paying us ;)

    #2) For the past 4 years, the site has largely been self-funded by administration and a few helpful members. It's expensive, and the admins really don't like to beg. Funding has been a critical achilles heel of many/most Sci critic groups in the past, and surely the Scientology organization knows this. Scientology would presumably like to find an effective way to use WWP's funding/support model to destroy it. The WWP administration would probably like to prevent them from doing that. For that reason I personally DO NOT want to know too many of the details; I'm satisfied with the level of service the admins provide for the donations I (may) have given them. It's not unreasonable to ask, but you may find other WWP users reluctant to dig.

    #3) oddly, the question doesn't come up very often. You're one of the first people I've seen asking about it on here. I hear (similar) questions from Scientology bullbaiters when protesting. I see people who have already donated asking that, and people who are considering doing so, also asking. I've never seen someone brand new pose it before.

    You might be able to find (some) of the details by asking the site administrators. Or maybe not. It's worth dropping a PM [USER=16858]sue[/USER] or [USER=1]da5id[/USER] perhaps.
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Awesome..thanks for the welcome....and anything I tell you would be substantiated fact...
    • Like Like x 2
  12. IMMENSELY!!!
    • Like Like x 7
  13. I really don't need details and although that was a long thorough answer, which I do appreciate, it was just more a curiousness. I like to support where I can, if it actually HELPS the overall mission and not fill the pockets of a few...

    #3 I might be different than most ! :))
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Anonymous Member

    [/quote]Thanks for being here, strue3
  15. Zak McKracken Member

    You are.
  16. Intelligence Member

    What was the Student (patient/client) capacity at this Narconon and how many staff?

  17. In 2003 at Vista Bay we were maintaining about 65 students and maybe 15-30 staff. I was the lead admissions counselor(Reg) from approx 9/2001 - 4/2003

    Then I helped open Placerville June of 2003 with 18 beds on site and 2 student beds off site. We had 6 staff. We only had students come out who were finished thru the sauna. I ran that facility.

    In 2004 I think our student count was up around the 85-100 mark and our total staff was prob somewhere around 40...In Oct 2004 I went back to the Watsonville center and was posted as the SDE( Senior Director of Expansion). I operated in that capacity until June 2006.

    Vista Bay has always maintained close to a 2:1 ration but like you stated alot of those staff are administraive or marketing staff and NOT working directly with the students.

    I helped develop the training program that is now in place where a graduate of the program can sign on to the training program. They train vigorously for 90 days. They work 5 hours a day helping out and train 5 hours a day. They need to complete the BSM(Basic Student Manual) BSH(Basic Staff Hat) and the WD Specialist Course in that 90 day period and apply to be signed on as permanent staff at that point.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Anonymous Member

    Narconon Watsonville is only licensed for a residential capacity of 49. Was Watsonville licensed for a larger capacity when you were there?
    Can you explain how a facility is legally capable of housing residents offsite?
    Are these offsite facilities inspected by the state?
    Are they housed in a Narconon facility or elsewhere?
    If housed offsite, did Narconon collect housing expenses?
    Are treatment fees reduced if they are housed offsite?
    Are court ordered residential treatment clients housed offsite?
    In 2004, you stated that the count was around 85 - 100. Tahoe was not in existance then. Today's licenses are for 49 in Watsonville and 18 in Placerville. How could Narconon have that many "students" and where were they housed? How did Narconon get around the operating outside their limits?
  19. 1. Their licensing is for Residential Treatment(onsite housing) 49 beds, Intensive Day Treatment(basically out-patient) NO LIMIT, and Out-Patient Treatment(NO LIMIT). It was increased to 49 from 40 about 2004. To my knowledge, at least back then, and I work in Sober Living now, we did not have any requirements to be licensed for adults. They are not providing treatment services at the houses, simply housing, so there are no. The adolescents were an entirely different story and that is why they were ordered eventually to cease and desist. I worked on possibly getting the Dept of Social Services to license a home for the kids but it was just too extensive.
    2. No the houses offsite are not inspected and they do not have to be, to my knowledge, as there is no program offered there.
    3. They are housed in single family homes in a neighborhood
    4. No, there were no additional expenses charged for housing offsite
    5. No, treatment fees were not reduced. The students are picked up in a 15 passenger van and driven to the facility everyday. There are staff that live in the house with the students. They are provided fod for the house for when they get there in the evening.
    6. I do not believe so.....but would not feel confident answering either way.
    7. In 2004 we had a few offsite houses....three, I believe in Watsonville area and one in Placerville. Again, when I had all the licensing being done for Placerville, I worked with the Dept Drug and Alcohol, we were not required to get any of the houses certified or licensed. Only the facility delivering services.

    So basically......they can enroll as many students that they want and that the centers themselves can accommodate for the daily program and have some live on property and some off property.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Intelligence Member

    Thank you. Now for an important question? Are these vigorously training, 5 hours per day working, then 90 days etc, PAID ANY WAGE whatsoever??? At NN TR, they tried to get aroung the labour code by having us sign a
    "Transition Contract", but it didn't hold water by the time I was done with all my legal submissions.

    I'm guessing they gave them room and board in exchange for production???

    I haven't had time to research USA Ferderal and Subject state labour laws/codes YET - but I certainly will
    very soon; especially with my planned trips into USA soon.

    There are THREE separate ways to subject them to scrutiny under three speparate codes/laws.

  21. "wages" as technically they are not hired. They are "volunteers". It was the way to get around having to pay them and hire them. They get a stipend of $50 a week cash, and they are given room and board. they bust their ass, and are not guaranteed to get hired after the 90 days. There might be 20 trainees at one time, working shifts in WD, "ethics", runners.....

    Once Vista Bay was sued by an ex staff for violations of labor laws, back in 2003/4 they researched the labor laws and changed the entire pay structure to hourly wages. This pretty much motivated change across the network as far as I remember. This is also when the pay structure and bonus structure for executives changed and why Execs/Regges(admissions counselors) make upwards of 300,000 a year. The top ten bring in well over a million combined on annual pay while the staff below "Supervisor" level make minimum wages and pennies of bonus money.
    • Like Like x 4
  22. Intelligence Member

    Yes indeed - - Reg's can make HUGE $$$$. We had 4-7 coming in per week at 10% of $23,000 x 5 average.
    And this is just for one Reg.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Any incidents of attempted suicide or people rushed to the hopsital who were ill, or deaths that you witnessed?
    Were there any health violations citations issued?
    and of course you do't have to answer any of these questions.
  24. ye
    yep....your commission structure sounds even more scandalous than ours was.....l10% is standard FSM commission....the Regges at Vista Bay made 1-3% of $30+,000 with DiPalma and Dir Registration making cuts off the everything brought in.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. There were deaths that occured outside of the facility when someone was suspended and dropped off in town to find their way, put on a bus, but none actually at the facility while I was there from 2001 - 2010. I just saw that one of the posted "success stories" they still have on Mod edit: Sci link --> site is a guy that OD'd and died in a Jack in the Box bathroom a couple years back, Jason Moses.

    Yes, getting someone to the ER took almost an act of God when there was a problem like dehydration from vomiting and diarhhea due to withdrawls. The only time 911 was called immediately was when there was a seizure. People would ask and ask to go to the hospital and were denied for days.....

    Peoples mental, emotional and physical health was put in jeopardy by the routine discontinuation of all psych meds. There were many many students who were in such agonizing pain from the severe headaches they suffered which were common to most psych med withdrawls. Effexor being one of the worst. These I witnessed first hand when I ran the detox area for 4 years.

    The health dept and fire dept would come thru and inspect and leave a list of things that would need to be corrected but I do not believe there were any actual citations at Vista Bay.

    While I was in Michigan, IF a Health Inspector or Fire Marshall would have ever actually shown up, I am POSITIVE the place would have been shut down. I didn't work hard enough I believe :(( in retrospect to get SOMEONE out to that facility. I should have contacted you guys then!! I had to get out for my own sake.

    I have volumes to tell about that place.....
    • Like Like x 7
  26. Anonymous Member

    Thanks for all the info,
    Your response to questions 3,4,5
    3. They are housed in single family homes in a neighborhood
    4. No, there were no additional expenses charged for housing offsite
    5. No, treatment fees were not reduced. The students are picked up in a 15 passenger van and driven to the facility everyday. There are staff that live in the house with the students. They are provided fod for the house for when they get there in the evening.

    You mentioned there was no additional expense charged for the offsite housing and the fees were not reduced.
    If the cost of housing the client (offsite) is included in the total cost of the program then the offsite housing should be included in the licensed.
    The main facility maybe Intensive/outpatient but they provide offsite housing which are the residential facilities.
    11834.09. (a) Upon receipt of a completed written application, fire
    clearance, and licensing fee from the prospective licensee, and
    subject to the department's review and determination that the
    prospective licensee can comply with this chapter and regulations
    adopted pursuant to this chapter, the department may issue a single
    license to the following types of alcoholism or drug abuse recovery
    or treatment facilities:
    (1) A residential facility.
    (2) A facility wherein separate buildings or portions of a
    residential facility are integral components of a single alcoholism
    or drug abuse recovery or treatment facility and all of the
    components of the facility are managed by the same licensee.
  27. Anonymous Member

    This is now my favorite active thread.

    • Like Like x 4
  28. Hmmmmm.. interesting...the students were all charged the same rate no matter what facility that were sent to and no matter where they live, onsite or off. This is as of June 2010 when I left. It would be easy to find out if that is still the case by calling as a prospect. I doubt that there are fee differences because there is never any telling who is going where when they are regged in. Everyone goes thru Vista Bay first, that was the only facility that has a withdraw setup. Placerville delivers Book 3-8 and Students can be shipped to Tahoe after withdraw. This is generally determined by student capacity and medical condition. As Tahoe and Placerville do not have nursing staff, most students who might need more consistent attention from the nurse will stay in Vista Bay.
    • Like Like x 3
  29. nice.....
    • Like Like x 1
  30. RightOn Member

    "I just saw that one of the posted "success stories" they still have on XXXXX site is a guy that OD'd and died in a Jack in the Box bathroom a couple years back, Jason Moses. "

    wow again
    ruthless lying vultures
    • Like Like x 2
  31. Intelligence Member

    stty - you were in a position to have access and read some damning documents.

    Do you have copies of any of these dox? Do you have any dox?

    • Like Like x 1
  32. Anonymous Member

    Also, do you know people still there who can get the dox for you?
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Anonymous Member

    Do the clients that participate in the facilities that are not residential rehab always stay in the same offsite housing and do you know who owns the housing?
  34. I was a part of a lot of the decisions over the years as an executive. I was an integral part of taking that facility from the 20-25 students they had in 2001 to the three facilities it became and know the history of most everything that went on there. It was in the last 4 years of my working there that I was not an executive and was not a part of the weekly council, but I still know what went on. Email me what kind of dox you are looking for or what kind of info you need. There are lots who left in disappointment that I could probably reach out to if for nothing else, to lend support and their own story, if we are looking for that kind of interaction. I have often wondered when a class action suit would be filed against the whole thing.....wrongful deaths, fraudulent regging, holding against ones will....etc....
    • Like Like x 2
  35. students are moved around.....they lease a house that was purchased by one of the staff and then leased to NN, they lease a couple others, for students and trainees, and then about 3 years ago they started renting 2 bedroom apartments, all in the same complex. we had up to 6 I think at one point.

    There is a house owned by the Mansons that was leased to NN at first as a potential detox spot but then it was utilized for staff housing and eventually leased completely for the administrative actions, treasury and regges.

    Remember that is was all current info as of my last days with NN June 2010.
  36. I have files on my desktop but you and I would have to talk(email) what info you might want....I got rid of a lot of it...weekly stats and financials, reports....yep....10 years worth....

    I was knowledgeable about a few of the lawsuits, and was personally involved with the Erickson lawsuit.
    • Like Like x 2
  37. Anonymous Member

    Please hang on to everything you have left. This could get interesting...
  38. will do....
  39. Anonymous Member

    please also type out everything you can remember year by year and copy and keep in a seperate safe place
    As well as any other stuff you have... copy and keep in safe place.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Any guest can post here by inputting random letters/numbers/symbols as a user name.

    Very useful tool, and I thank the admins for allowing this.

    It has legitimate uses for people who can get into significant trouble if they are identified.

    / out of one frying pan, into the next fire

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