Why do you support WikiLeaks?

Discussion in 'Wikileaks' started by Aericks, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    The media is angry that the job they abdicated (getting us the truth on what our governments are doing and what is going on in the world) has been taken over by an entity that is doing a better and more honest job than they ever did. They are also angry because their corporate masters are ordering them to pretend to be angry, and acting as spin-masters to present the more titillating and trivial leaks as news stories, while completely failing to do any real analysis of the material.
  2. genoramix Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I like the way you think although i'm all for wikileaks and freedom of information.
    I think we all share this opinion, the problem is that governements fuck us up on sooo many levels that too much transparency at the moment is definitely not a bad thing. Even if some bad on a moral standpoint happens, at least it will put some pressure on elected people to think more than 2x before doing the same stupid shit over and over again.

    At least i hope so.
  3. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I suspect we're on the same team with quite different views of how to get where we want to be. I wouldn't ask you to agree with me now for fear you'd only regret it later.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I thought I had an excellent synopsis. This beats it in spades.

    This should be quoted on CNN and other equivalents. There's not a single word or explanation point that needs to be added. This is perfection that any and every single human being on earth can understand and totally get it.
    Brilliant and insightful, in the best and worst kind of way.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I support wikileaks because i am a huge moral fag.
    Also because of the huge amounts of tramadol in my system.
    But i don't like to see democratic goverments acting to suppress the rights of any individual or group because they have published the truth.
  6. peaceandlies Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I support WikiLeaks because:

    -They embaress the corrupt governments of the world, especially the US
    -They support freedom of speech and of knowledge

    And I have never doubted those reasons. I don't believe, in any way, that this has compromised the war, or endangered the lives of soldiers; those are lies concocted to try and turn people against wikileaks.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I only support WL qualifiedly. I think their organizational structure is essentially dysfunctional and that this dooms the organization ultimately to destruction. The governments and corporations of the world which will ultimately destroy this organization, however, will have little time to savor their victory, as alternate organizational structures will arise which will be more robust.

    Something like WL needs to operate where the individual members don't even know each other, so that the government can infiltrate it all they like. Since nobody they infiltrate will know anything beyond what they are doing or their immediate contacts are doing, it will be an inefficient use of their resources. The weak part of the structure is, of course, the sources, since sources can be identified when access to information is limited. At least you know whoever leaked was one of the few people with access to that information. The U.S. model of classifying anything and everything top secret and then giving hundreds of thousands of people security clearances is idiotic and this big leak shows exactly why. After all without Adrian Lame-O going Judas, Manning might have gotten away with it for a little while.

    To quote a cliche, information wants to be free. That's a cliche because information doesn't want anything, obviously. It would be better phrased, in a world where every person has the equivalent of an infinitely powerful copying machine, information will tend to get out. This is the future. Get used to it or get run over.
  8. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Thank you, Polly Anna. Your sentiment has been registered.
  9. Consensus Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    That's exactly what we need to be looking for - common ground.

    If we can agree upon an aim, a goal, then we can start moving towards a consensus on the best way to get there.
  10. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Unlike the faggot above me (sinister cabal), I agree with you. I think the entire thing was a giant clusterfuck from the beginning, and nothing shy of getting our troops home and finally obtaining a sane foreign policy will lessen the unnecessary risk to our soldiers and our image abroad.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Don't confuse people with another view on wiki leaks as being anything else, it is not the intention of the US government to promote pedophilia, neither Dynocorp, or the Vatican have intentions of promoting pedophilia either. In both cases people acted outside of policy but the entire organization was threatened by the actions of individuals, it would be like holding the entirety of anonymous responsible for every stomped pansy or every smeared pube.
    It is a little strange that you are talking about a ruling where the manner in which evidence is obtained comes into question. The evidence that you use to convict The US government is yet to be seen to be [STRIKE]obtained[/STRIKE] published legally. Although it may or may not have been legal for Wiki leaks to have published the materials, the informtion you use to pass judgment was not obtained legally. Goose/Gander ??

    But the facts do not change, and there are things that people should be held accountable for in the files released by wiki leaks, but many people are acting like 400,000 documents contain 400,000 criminal atrocities, and that isn't the case. The most foremost was the video where reporters where fired on by servicemen who believed the equipment being carried were weapons (specifically AK-47's and RPGs) after a report that no authorized individuals permitted to carry those weapons were in the area. They appear to act within the protocols of that situation. It was a sad casualty, however that news team knew of the dangers, and the sad consequence of them being there was reason for the death of a father and injury to his two children. The press may have been lied to about the situation, but it is also possible that the person who gave that information to the press may not have know the exact circumstances involved. We don't know yet, but wiki leaks speculated or at least irresponsibly suggested that the US intentionally deceived the public about it.
  12. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

  13. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

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  14. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    And had the government held Dyncorp accountable, even something as minor as a censure and cancellation of their contract, I would come closer to agreeing with you. Of course, that also ignores the other horrible acts committed by our military, such as the murder of two Reuters employees and other war crimes. Again, had the government held them accountable, that would have cleaned their hands.

    That said, there are the significant differences that the United States government and Vatican, including the current Pope, had roles in attempting to cover up their respective pedophilia scandals. As Richard Nixon found out the hard way, it's not the initial crime that gets you, it's the coverup.

    The other major difference is that Anonymous has never had one centralized command structure and is, by its very nature, individuals acting individually. Pubeit and AGP got laughs from some and expressions of disgust from others, but [STRIKE]tiptoeing through tulips[/STRIKE] prancing through pansies or being disgusting resulted in no deaths and the harm of no individuals. AGP and Pubeit had their censure, even though they acted at no one else's behest and on no one's orders.

    It is not that I am unaware of the apparent hypocrisy or the irony of that position given its historical context. It is simply that I do not care. As for the legality of it, that is very much the subject of debate, and it has been argued that WikiLeaks' actions are no different from that of the New York Times when the Abu Ghraib scandal and other horrors came to light. The Espionage Act of 1917 may not be applicable, nor do other legal remedies fit comfortably. It is and has long been the responsibility of the Fourth Estate to be the last guardian of our liberties and the final check on the powers of the government. In this instance, I agree with another Brandeis' quote that sunshine is the best disinfectant.

    I'm sure you were a fan of My Lai too. I also do not think these leaks are 400,000 criminal atrocities. I would be shocked if the vast majority of them do not make moss growing look interesting by comparison. Having viewed the video, I have a very different take on it. I won't pretend to be an expert, but I do not know of any models of RPG or AK-47 that hangs at the hip and is bulky like a fanny pack on the side, yet has no barrel. Furthermore, the attack on the van attempting to assist the wounded man was gratuitous and was nothing short of a war crime. What of the other video where an innocent was walking past a targeted building and ended up destroyed with the suspected targets? What was he carrying that may have been a weapon?
  15. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I'm still waiting for them to leak the Area 51 information, and pics, because it didn't happen otherwise.
  16. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I watched one of the origional releases of that vid, very disturbing, and very obviously young soldiers going gonzo and fucking up badly jsut for the thrill of it.
    Any fucking idiot can see there wasn't a threat, and shooting the kids?

    Not like this doesn't happen all the time, unusual it got out though.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    You missed the point I was making. Dynocorp employees did something morally wrong, I am not sure if it was illegal. Are we even certain that sex acts between men and those children took place? Does it matter to you ? It seems you are ready to chase them down with out a trial with a torch and pitchfork. Yes it is wrong for anyone to sexually abuse a child. You believe that the world should be stopped, billion dollar contracts dissolved over this, not even understanding that there is no other company that could have replaced their services in the world. It is not like switching from coke to pepsi. I don't know if the US gov. is able to charge them if they did commit a crime, that information was covered up at the request of the overseeing government.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?


    One small cultural note
    in case you haven't assimilated the flavor of Anon / WWP language,
    Greta's remark concerning the faggot who replied to you,
    had nothing whatsoever to do with your own self.
    In Anon terms- we're all fags. I'm a fag, you're a fag, everyone is, and its not generally meant as a slur. Among the very few exceptions are the terms: "faggotry" and "faggot" which usually have negative connotations and imply that the person addressed is actually a bad person. (Faggot can be ambiguous; occasionally its a back-handed compliment, but usually its not)

    In almost every single context other than this, "fag=person" and doesn't imply anything about someone's gender or identity.

    Welcome to anonymous ;)
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Looks like " Aericks" got all the information he/she was after on here.
  20. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Actually, no. "Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order."

    Being property, the job of a media organ is, ultimately, to do what its owner(s) want it to, not what you want it to (or believe it "should" do). If the people want a newspaper or radio network or news magazine or whatever to tell them the truth, then the job of that newspaper/whatever becomes not (quite) to actually tell the truth, but to appear to be telling it while still softly selling the PoV of the owner(s). (In this sense, Fox News is arguably the least "successful" network, since its bias is much more overtly -- even cartoonishly -- displayed than that of the other networks, who have long labored to present a more believable facade of harrumph harrumph.)

    There's no way to change this; it's inherent in the nature of private property. The best that can be done is to spread general awareness of it and foster competition and freedom of information and of information exchange. When it comes right down to it, though, anybody can lie and some will, and that must always be remembered. Notions of a noble, neutral, honest "fourth estate" are IMO naive and serve only the interests of those who would be our info-masters.
  21. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

  22. Anonymous Member

  23. DamOTclese Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Nobody wants to admit to supporting it, but everybody reads the information they release!

    If you look at the world's actual citizens, about 95% of them support and applaud the work that Wikileaks does. The fascist State's governments, the people committing war crime atrocities and terrorism, the corporate traitors and their media lapdogs all condemn Wikileaks but the actual citizens are overwhelmingly in favor.

    For obvious reasons. The theofascists hate having the light of exposure shined on them. The world's citizens know thaty Democracy requires transparency and truth and freedom, something that war criminals and traitors can't stand.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    where are you getting your statistical information ? It appears that most people I encounter didn't know that wiki leaks existed before the latest round of news about it. Furthermore, those who I know that know of it only read the headlines.

    (I haven't actually polled the people I know but I have tried to ask outside opinions from them, and for the most part they are uninterested)
  25. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    I believe that they are showing Americans one thing that we are not really used to, the truth... Fox News, and other media outlets find wikileaks a threat for no other reason then it gives Americans and the world the most damaging weapon ever, facts and knowledge... some people are horrified by the information that they are receiving about what our government does behind closed doors, but as any married couple will tell you, a relationship without total honesty is doomed, and with wikileaks providing the people with the correct facts I strongly believe we have a better chance of prevailing as a true democracy.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    You ain't married are you ? I would say that a marriage with total honesty is doomed. But that might depend on your definition of "total" honesty.
  27. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Well I can kind of see your point but I must stand by what I stated before, Honesty is in my opinion the foundation of any relationship.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Thank you all for your posts; this has made it a lot easier for me to show my conservative family exactly why the hell wiki matters. Despite the drawbacks and the arrogance of its leader (what leader isn't ignorant, really?) -- it is such a hugely important step for the world. Good or bad, the lines are drawn.
  29. Aericks Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Okay, so after reading many insightful comments from everyone, I have determined a few things. While I read all of the replies, there were far too many to reply to every single one. Instead, I will post (What I think) is a general consensus.

    - The United States Government is throwing a fit about WikiLeaks because they exposed hidden crimes, and as a deterrent they pointed out that it would put the United States troops in danger. This, however, seems to be mostly a lie, and they are using this tactic to gain supporters against WikiLeaks.

    - While everyone has their own personal right to privacy, we have a right to know what our country is doing. It is definitely interesting to see what they are doing when they think nobody else can read it.

    - Julian Assange may be cocky, and his motives questionable at best, but the fact remains that he is doing the world a service by releasing these documents.

    I guess that the main argument here is whether or not we have the right to know what is going on behind closed doors. I have come to the conclusion that even if some of the information that is released is trivial, we still have the right to know. Transparency in our government is essential, and my government really had it coming, after hiding so many things after so many years, finally somebody steps up and reveals to the world what they are doing. Of course, I see why the United States is pissed, I mean I would be a little pissed if, say, I wrote in a diary and someone posted the whole thing on the internet. But the US is a government, not a single person, and they need to be scrutinized and looked at, how else are we able to "Form a more perfect union?"

    I, for one, find myself supporting WikiLeaks, and think that Julian's supposed sexual crimes are just attempts to stop WikiLeaks. It really does sicken me that our country can get away with so much without even letting anyone know, and I hope that they in the future can never get away with anything without anyone finding out. But I guess that is wishful thinking.

    I thank everyone for their input, and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Im gona multi quote your post because I don't understand how you came to those conclusions, don't think I don't respect your opinion

    Are you sure it is the US govenrment throwing a fit or people in the United states, the US government has not taken any official action.
    I agree with you partially here, and I think there is a good argument that some things are classified that don't need to be. But are you saying that there is no action that the government takes that should not be disclosed to it's citizens ?
    What do you think is going to change because of his release of these documents and how do you think it will be changed. (The service you are talking about)

    What questions are answered for you that happened behind closed doors ? What did the government "have coming" in your opinion ?
    So are you saying that these women were operatives of the US government sent to lure him into bed so they could later misrepresent his actions ?

    Sometimes in government secrets are kept, because they keep people safe, other times they are kept to avoid embarrassment of other countries as well as embarrassment of their own.

    Strange things can be a a strategic advantage for example in the Vietnam war it is said that their soldiers could track US soldiers because the US soldiers were required to polish their boots, and the shoe polish would scrape off on the rocks when they would travel through and area. This (if it is true) is a big advantage and would be considered top secret. But to hear it now, it seems pretty silly. These little things are often kept secret not only in war times but in the case of the cables, they are used to further diplomacy that can often avoid conflict. It is more expedient for people to be frank, and not have to worry about what spin doctor in the media is going to say.

    In the case of the "Collateral Murder" video, for example, the people involved had been already been cleared of wrong doing. The people doing the shooting were not calling the shots, but it was framed in the media as being "Collateral Murder". Not a mistake in identity. If watch the entire video and ignore wikileaks additions, it is a little more clear. You will see the people in the chopper fire on people that Wikileaks added the identies and back stories on after the fact. It makes no reference to if other choppers had been shot down in the area in the past, or what other activities were in the area, it showed that they did ask if there were any "good guys" in the area, and they were told no. It made a point say that the man in the van had children with him, that makes little difference but there is no way they could have known at the time. The wiki leaks video is full of spin, the second incident in the video does not give sound but still they speculate that those who fired a missile at the building intentionally killed a pedestrian, when for all we know the pedestrian could have been one of the targets in the first place. There just isn't enough information to draw either conclusion, but at least in my opinion it is not responsible to lead people to those conclusions with out more evidence.

    Julian Assange claims to be a journalist, his actions dont really reflect those of a responsible one, he tries to become the story and bring the leaks from Bradly Manning, into his own personal affairs, and IMO tries do distort the facts in the same way but the opposite direction that Fox News does.

    Its cool to disagree with me I just didn't understand your reasoning.
  31. pedrofcuk Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?


    "I want people to see the truth regardless of who they are… because without information, you cannot make informed decisions as a public."

    Bradley Manning, my hero.
  32. Aericks Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Anonymous: I don't pretend to know everything, and sometimes when I write, I really do not make sense. I understand this, and I will struggle to make a valid response to you. Thank you for your patience in the matter.

    -I have read reports of several people condemning his actions, several major leaders condemning his actions, but as for an official response to Julian Assange, I honestly do not know. I will search out the article for you, thank you for pointing that out.

    -We definitely walk a fine line there in disclosure. Transparency Vs. Privacy, Keeping secrets for the good of the public Vs. Hiding truth. Honestly, it did take me a long time to decide where to stand with this. But someone on here pointed out, that if your country did something that you did not like, wouldn't you want to know? I know that many cables were released that were possibly unnecessary. I also know that many cables were not released to not put some people at risk. So I believe that a fair amount of discretion was in fact used here.

    -Okay, so what I mean by that, is that Julian Assange... Or maybe WikiLeaks... Completely changed the way things happen, for better or for worse. To me, it seemed as if he was seeking to find things that were hidden, and reveal them, not for his own personal gain, but to shed some light where nobody in the past had seen. Many things have been hidden that shouldn't have been. Maybe he released too much, and maybe he did not, but that is not my place to question it. So did he do the world a service by not letting "National Security" hide their corruption behind a blanket? You decide.

    - In my opinion, the government has hidden many things in the past, alot of knowledge that should not have been hidden. Maybe you disagree on their corruption, but if Julian Assange had thought America to be hiding things for just motives, he would not have even bothered to reveal anything.

    - I do not believe that these women were CIA operatives. Obviously. The idea is laughable. But I do think that it was very convenient that Assange was suddenly charged after he released those cables. Do you really think that America did not assert any sort of pressure to apprehend Assange? Do you think that nobody will see straight through to the fact that they were trying to capture him? Please, I know that I am not the smartest person in the world, by far, but I know a rat when I see one.

    -I know that several things could possibly compromise our troops. For example, if a group of soldiers that was marching into an ambush were warned beforehand, then they would turn around and slaughter their hidden enemy, or at least avoid them. Information can kill. But some information needs to be revealed. And obviously nobody was revealing what should have been revealed. So yes, I say again, they had it coming to them.

    -What happened to innocent until proven guilty? You state that he is simply hiding behind Bradley Manning, but he has not even gone through court. You simply assume that he is the one who has done the leaking.

    - Lastly, I know for sure that everybody is opinionated. If you read my introduction, you would know that. Everybody is biased. But after examining the facts, and tracking down the details for myself, I have come to the conclusion that WikiLeaks is doing the world a favor.

    Its cool to disagree with me I just didn't understand your reasoning.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Truth makes the world a better place.
  34. Kilia Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

  35. beverly Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    This is a terrific site, thanks for linking it. I believe WikiLeaks is a good thing because it's making the general public the world over really see what many people have known or speculated about for decades - if caught with their pants down it'd be quite plain to see that many of the world's powers would be wearing very dirty underwear, for lack of a better analogy. I think WikiLeaks has brought that truth to the very forefront of most of the public's vision although the press has been doing their utmost best - especially here in the states to tarnish that, either due to their own sentimentality about how 'good' America is, or due to pressure from the state department, or because their pansies. As Anonymous said - truth does make the world a better place. I believe that the faster the people see how bad things are, maybe - just maybe (and this is my hippie homespun naivete coming through) things will start to get better, or at least people will tear their fat asses away from bullshitty must see tv and take a look around them. The WikiLeaks issue is an issue of freedom of information, and it's been making the media look like huge pussies; which I appreciate.
  36. Disco Necked Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    A lot of great statements in this thread.

    WikiLeaks & its offshoots will continue to revolutionize this planet.

  37. Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Why do I support wikileaks?

    As Orwell said,

    “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

    The future is in play, and we have the chance to impact the outcome.

    I may be a newfag here, but I say its time to stop screwing around and get in the fight.

    #Operation Paperstorm
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Why turn a blind eye to corrupt government policies? I love my fellow citizens, but it all starts with the bureaucracy. All the soldiers killed in this war leads back to the governing bodies that commanded it.
  39. ninmah Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    Why I support WikiLeaks:

    When democracy no longer is based upon human rights and majority decisions (ie democracy?) leads to opression, persecution, supervision and control of the citizens and restricting the flow of knowledge and information, I wonder - where is the representation?
    Wikileaks is one way to reveal the power and its perperations. Wikileaks should not be responsible in any way. Responsibility must lie on the perperator!
    Who has the right to define democracy? Who has the jurisdiction to decide what information and knowledge is available to who? If crimes are committed, dont kill the messenger. In the quest for power many states, organizations and companies committ crimes. They must stand responsible. Not the truth-sayers.

    All imo
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Why do you support WikiLeaks?

    All actions that affect the rights of other human beings, the maxims of which are incompatible with publicity, are unjust. ... If I may not utter my maxim explicitly without thereby thwarting my own aim, if it must rather be kept secret if it is to succeed, if I cannot admit it publicly without thereby inevitably provoking the resistance of all others to my plan, then the necessary and universal and hence a priori understandable opposition to me can be due to nothing other than the injustice with which my maxim threatens everyone.
    Immanuel Kant, towards perpetual peace

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