WhatsApp end to end encryption

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Enturbuleak, May 1, 2016.

  1. Enturbuleak Member

    Recently, WhatsApp announced end to end encryption for all of its services. I've been relying on that encryption lately. So far the police and government have not been able to crack the encryption.

    A month ago, I had an exclusive, face to face interview with our former Prime Minister, on topics unrelated to this forum (I'm a moderator on a totally unrelated site).

    Unfortunately, I decided not to publish the interview, as the former PM's remarks were fairly explosive. I was convinced by others from overseas in various countries not to publish the interview, as I would be arrested or worse, due to sedition laws.

    Just a tip of the hat to WhatsApp, for deliberately implementing end to end encryption, designed specifically to frustrate corrupt governments.
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Enturbuleak Member

    Since this forum is not on the radar of the local police, here is a short excerpt from the lengthy interview:

    (My intro, meant for international audience.)

    Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad was the 4th Prime Minister of Malaysia. He held the post for 22 years from 1981 to 2003, making him Malaysia's longest-serving Prime Minister.

    After stepping down as Prime Minister, Dr. Mahathir took on the role of Petronas Advisor in 2003.

    On March 11 2016, the Malaysian government terminated the services of Dr. Mahathir, due to a political dispute between former Prime Minister Mahathir and the current Prime Minister Najib Razak.

    The Prime Minister's Office said in a brief statement that the Cabinet had discussed the actions of Dr. Mahathir, and decided that since he was "no longer supporting the current Government, he should no longer hold any position related to the Government."

    On 30th March 2016, Dr. Mahathir was kind enough to agree to an interview with [ redacted ], to discuss Petronas.


    Question: The current Prime Minister is also the Finance Minister, and also the head of 1MDB, the government’s financial investment company.

    Petronas reports directly and only to the Prime Minister's Office.

    The Chairman of Petronas is also on the Board of Advisors of 1MDB.

    In March 2015, Petronas raised USD $5 billion via Sukuk (Islamic bonds).

    Was this USD $5 billion raised by Petronas related to 1MDB debts?

    Dr. Mahathir: I cannot say for sure. But what happened with 1MDB is that, initially, it wanted to access the Terengganu royalty given to the state of Terengganu. But Terengganu objected, because they [ would ] lose control of their own funds, so the next step was to set up a company, with 1 million Ringgit capital, and borrowing 42 billion Ringgit. Forty-two thousand times more than your capital! This is absurd.

    But of course, it means there must be a government guarantee. So when the government guarantees that, well it has to ensure that there must be payment for the debt. And if they had actually invested in real business, if they invest wisely, they may be able to repay their loans.

    But what is strange is that the terms of borrowing is very unfavorable to 1MDB. They bought the power plants at above market value, and these are power plants which are about to lose their license; they are at the end of their license period they have. So you could actually wait until they have no more license, then the government can acquire at fire sale price. But they made a decision to buy at above market value. That also means that there is a heavy burden on 1MDB. It will not be able to repay the loan that is laid, they even assume the debt of the power plants. So altogether they spent 18 billion Ringgit on that. As you know, they recently sold it at below purchasing price. So they definitely would have lost more than a billion Ringgit.

    The other investments are very fuzzy. PetroSaudi, etc. and putting money in Cayman Islands, British Virgin Islands, and all that, we don’t know what happened to the money. Obviously they are not earning enough to repay the loan. And we don’t even know where the money is. And so I think that it is 1MDB money which went into [ Prime Minister ] Najib’s private account. He has not been able to prove that it is not. I mean, he gave explanations which are ridiculous. So, I suspect that it is 1MDB money which is stashed away in his account.

    But you think money that is borrowed and put into your account, how do you earn enough to repay the balance? So at the moment, the government has to stand guarantee, but the government has no money. So indirectly, it has to squeeze Petronas, not directly for 1MDB, but squeeze Petronas to support the government. And the government will then try to pay for the loans that they have taken. And that too, they are not able to do.

    So they are in a very tight spot. They are not able to service their loan, they have these heavy borrowings, and terms which are very bad. For example, giving Goldman Sachs 10% commission, and the interest rate is 5.9%. Normally government borrow at 3%. I borrowed before from the Japanese at 0.7%, repayable over 40 years. But this is terrible, the rate is very high. So, whatever they do, they are going to be in grave trouble. Because I can’t imagine any investment they make could exceed the rate of interest they have to pay on their loans. So I think indirectly, Petronas will have … not contributed to 1MDB, but contributed to the government so that the government can somehow support 1MDB.

    And they have been playing around with the EPF money, EPF has a lot of money. And the other pension fund. So, very indirectly, there will be some needs of the government which have to be met by Petronas.


    Question: The USD $5 billion raised by Islamic bonds 1 year ago by Petronas, how was it actually spent? Petronas only gave a vague answer of “operational expenses”.

    What was it used for, and why did they feel the need to borrow $5 billion dollars?

    Dr. Mahathir: I think when the government demanded Petronas to give them more by way of dividend. And they said they need the money for their operations, and the government said you borrow the money, because we can’t borrow, you borrow. So indirectly, Petronas has to support the government, because the government is in debt, and is having trouble.


    Question: The Canadian British Colombia LNG project, it’s 36 billion dollars, led by Petronas and a consortium. With the cash flow problems with low oil prices, Petronas has insisted repeatedly that they are going to go ahead.

    I’m not sure they can proceed, because they are going to have to borrow some money to finance this $36 billion dollar project. Do you believe that it’s going to be delayed for 5 to 7 years?

    Dr. Mahathir: How long it will be delayed I wouldn’t know, but from where I can see [ ... ], they only vaguely suggest that they have bought this reserve, and they have sold some of the reserve to somebody, to reduce their cost. But still, their portion carries a heavy cost. So, to operate, they need a lot of money. This is not cheap business. This is very expensive business. They need billions of dollars. Dollars, not Ringgit. And they cannot borrow that much. They are going to have trouble. They will have to postpone things, and postpone again and again. I don’t know for how long. But I think they are going to have trouble with this.


    Question: Are there any further comments you wish to say about anything?

    Dr. Mahathir: All I can say is last night, I enjoyed a film, a TV broadcast from an Australian TV, I think TV 4 or something like that. And it tells all the stories about [ Prime Minister ] Najib [ Razak ]. Much more than can be told in Malaysia. Because in Malaysia, everything is censored. And people are afraid to speak. Because if you are caught saying something against the government, you will be charged with sedition. Now they have also indicated to the newspapers that I should be charged with sedition.

    So from internal sources, you can’t get any information. But this Australian TV station came here. They recorded a lot of things here, as well as interviewed many people, including myself. And they were arrested for asking the Prime Minister what happened to the money that he has in his account. They were detained for 2 days, and then they were released, and they were allowed to go back. When they go back, of course, they told the whole story. And the story they tell is very telling. And I think people should look at that. You get more information from that film than you can get from any source within the country.
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  3. Russell Lee Member

    WhatsApp will eventually be blown, it just a matter of time. This is why old-school cipher machines are making a comeback, they offer ease of operation and impossibility being defeated.
    The Galaxy Cipher Machine is one example, it has multiple infinite pattern possibilities and cannot be broken.
    Galaxy Cipher Machine open sourced: Crypto World Forums, Ideas and Suggestions.
  4. Incredulicide Member

    Almost 2 hours into this video there's a great breakdown of the Signal protocol features now being used in WhatsApp

    I suspected you have no fucking idea what you're talking about, but to be sure I went and visited
    I was right.
  5. DeathHamster Member

    FFS. No.

    Other than retro-nostalgia, there is no reason to use a cypher machine with actual mechanical parts rather than simulating them in software.

    Fuck all details about the Galaaxy machine. Got a link?
    Fucking clueless noobs! That's the whole problem in modern encryption: establishing a secure channel of communications without clandestine coffee-shop meetings to exchange information like that.

    Here, currently out of stock, but the money goes to a good cause:
  6. DeathHamster Member

  7. There is a link to the Galaxy Cipher Machine: Cryptography Forums, Topix
    Other patterns include the shape of a wire found in a junk yard, the winding river line of a map, anything.
    Theses non-logic patterns cannot be broken by any NSA login invasion programs.
    It IS not mechanical, it is about multiple patterns only known to the two communicators.
    Each disc has a dot somewhere between two of it's numbers so that the shifting of notches is from the last disc's dot position.
    Your control the whole process, virgin discs for each set, exclusive patterns pre-decided by the communicators, too many variables to sift through for invaders.
    Again, ANY encryption software is vulnerable to those who wrote it so it cannot be trusted-ever.
    Regards, Russell Lee
  8. ... aaaand WhatsApp security is a joke.
    Apologies, revisiting an old sock.
  9. Lonely?

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