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What does Rathbun Want?

Discussion in 'St Petersburg Times expose' started by chrisanon, Jun 22, 2009.

  1. chrisanon Member

    What does Rathbun Want?

    Marty Rathbun's post from ESMB has appeared on WWP before. In honor of the SP Times Series, it needs to appear again.

    It's great that these articles are finally putting incontrovertible evidence about Scn into the media mainstream. But Rathbun's belief, shared by many Freezoners, that Miscavige is the problem, is wrong.

    David Miscavige is not the problem with Scientology, Hubbard's plagiarized, bastardized, psychotic ideas are. Miscavige in jail and COB Marty Rathbun at the helm of a kinder, gentler Co$ isn't the outcome I've worked toward.

    My goal remains revocation of the Cult's tax exemption. If Rathbun, Rinder, Scobee, and De Vocht want to run Scn discussion groups or something, that's their Constitutional right. But Hubbard's vicious sci-fi soap opera batshittery needs, like Landmark, PSI Seminars, or Amway, to be taxed to the hilt.




  2. Smurf Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I totally agree. Mark is determined to rationalize away the extent of his direct involvement in criminality and his personal responsibility for it. Sorry, Mark, the Nuremberg thing of pointing the finger no longer works.

    Although he is very eloquent about David Miscavige's treachery & black Dianetics, he acts like everything was moral & above-board when LRH was in control, when in fact, alot of the abuses and criminality occurred under LRH & Mary Sue's leadership.
  3. auchraw Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Quoted for truth. Scientology needs to be rooted out and the remains sprayed with something effective; the IRS will do a good job. Rathbun is not an improvement on Miscavige IMO.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    ahhh the backlash has begun! Who gives a shit? No one!
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Scientology needs a Nuremberg trial.
  6. kitfisto Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Hoping he can purge his conscience of the horrific shit he's taken part in. Hoping for some kind of redemption ? I'm not too concerned about that at this point , but in the future I would definitly love an expose and some honest answers from this man .
  7. TheLady Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Marty and Mike think everything is cool with the statute of limitations on assault, but it's not cool in terms of hostile work environment. This really breaks open the whole workplace thing that Headly is working on. All sorts of civil rights complaints can be filed.

    I would still not trust either one of them but they are serving an important purpose for now and for that I am happy.

    There's a buck in it somewhere for these two.
  8. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    What backlash are you talking about?
  9. TheLady Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Yes.
    There are lots of important questions to be asked and ANSWERED, like straight answers.
  10. timthephoto Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    seems to me that there are many ex clams who "use the tech" to handle scientology related damage to themselves, etc etc
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?




    This is what I was reffering to. The Scilons are going to be saying that it is all an attempt to take out Miscavige and replace him with Rathbun, Rinder, Scobee, and De Vocht
  12. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Not to worry. A kinder, gentler Cult of Scientology wont work, because enforcement of authority, secret information and super powahs is the core engine that drives the scam. A kind, gentle scientology wont raise the same amounts of money, nor will it be able to scam people off their time as SeaOrg slaves. Take away the mind-control techniiques, and the brainwashing cult becomes just another loopy UFO cult again.

    A kinder, gentler Scientology is nothing to worry about, because at the end of the day, its the abuse that gives us a reason to protest.

    Rathburn/Rinder are highly suspect, and one would have to be an idiot of elephantine porportions to assume otherwise.
  13. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Quit reading my mind!
    ;)

    Yeh, I think a lot of them seek to ease their tortured minds and maybe set some of de ol' karma straight, that could be a long chore for some of them considering that therre has been some truly evil-type shit has gone on, way back to the old windbag psychotic Lron himself. (OP is right on imho).
    I get the sneeking hunch though that there are a few who'd love to do the big ursuping thingy and run the con themselves. Beyond redemption? Maybe.
    Greedy and human? I tend to think so.
    The ones who turn themselves around and get free of the cult and speak out seem to have a lot to say to help steer others away from Lron's dementia, I don't see this happening with him right now.
    We won't get a tonne of honest answers until he starts being totally honest with himself and the world around him, which would require a huge shift of perspective away from the mind-numbings of CoS. Frankly some have a problem with that, not surprising, and kinda sad.
    My evening opinion.

    :)
  14. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I'm not a Scilon (or an ex) and that thought has absolutely crossed my mind.

    In the video entitled "Reverse Dianetics" on the SP Times's Truth Rundown page, Rathbun pretty much says, 'look Hubbard said our wonderful tech could be misused in just the way Miscavige misuses it.'

    To many Scilons, the idea that Miscavige is the problem probably looks more appealing all the time.

    If they're believers, they're all trained to think that "Source" (Hubbard) is never the problem; a Suppressive Person is always the problem. So they're looking for a "who".

    Rathbun's giving them a "who". I think it's very possible he cooperated with these journalists so that he could make a case for himself.

    Maybe he hopes to force the Scilons to see that between Anon, the OG, the trial in France, and Xenu knows what else, they're going to lose their church if someone doesn't step up and present a compromise between Miscavige and oblivion.

    I'm pro-oblivion.
  15. TheLady Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Me too. Without Rathbun Rinder involved with the settlement of assets and back taxes. When I see the schools in the Hollywood area it makes me sick that they dont pay property taxes. They put insane stress on the cops and firefighters, permit people, they just love them those public services. Look what they are doing in Riverside Cty.

    I really don't see Davey retiring. I hope to hell the FBI is in there. Racketeering.

    This is a big bad break for them. The Internets are not their friend.
  16. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    IMHO, the scenario with the blowers coming back is unlikely. An insider job seems more plausible.

    Besides I would not like seeing DM playing the LRH's way, i.e. stepping down but keeping the control from the shadow.
  17. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    WHO CARES WHAT HE WANTS.


    (he's not going to get it)



    He's just an "ally of the moment" we'll deal with him and his bullshit later.
    ("No blackmail" my shiny metal ass...)


    [IMG]
  18. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?


    If I thought it likely he's "not going to get it", I wouldn't have posted this thread

    I don't regard him as an ally of the moment; we have no common goals. He wants Miscavige out so the Cult can survive; I want the Cult to not survive.

    I agree with you about the blackmail. For someone who's "having confession," he sure didn't hesitate to lie when it suited him.


    People like Miscavige usually surround themselves with weaklings. Anyone who'd be able to pull off a coup and then run the place probably left years ago.

    Rathbun strongly implied that in his videos. It seems that only people willing to put up with the overwhelming level of abuse that's existed since Lisa McPherson's murder remain at the top.

    And if Tommy Davis is the best they can do ... I don't think he could be a shift-manager at McDonald's.
  19. Uncle Bruce Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I'm waiting to see what happens if someone actually files a complaint of assault against DM. Will all these people be willing to perjure them selves in court? If so they become criminals too. Don't let the Clinton civil deposition fool you, perjury in a criminal case WILL get you sent to jail.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Hook the whole gang up to lie detectors. They may be able to fake a FN on a cheap-ass e-meter but they won't be able to beat the real deal.
  21. Ackerland Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    ^^^^ this

    also, even if rathbun or rinder were to take over leadership, i would not care, as long as they put a stop to the human rights abuses that are going on in the church. Also, Rathbun seems to have emancipated from the belief that really all Hubbard says was right:

    If and only if this is the case there is a chance human rights abuse within the cult are going to stop.

    From reading Dianetics I know that all this stuff about a reactive and analytical mind as in Hubbard's opinion is a load of hogwash, but if people get something out of applying the brainwashing techniques as described by Hubbard and it is not connected to any Human rights abuses, I don't care if they continue to practice their pseudo-scientific shit.
  22. Nataku Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I'd say Rathbun is genuinely trying to help people, even if his methods are based on Hubbard crap. He's an enemy of CoS, not us.
  23. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Will you still feel that way if he becomes head of Co$? And if he did, would you want them to retain their tax exemption?

    I agree with you that what he believes isn't the point. My concern is that those beliefs, and the activities that arise from them, shouldn't be supported with my tax dollars.
  24. Sponge Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I think Rathbun should stick to his own accounts if he wants to be sincere, and not go off on a tangent babbling on about what he thought Hubbard meant. Especially seeing that he didn't have anything to do with the fat fuck and was never even with him as far as I can tell. He knows no more than the rest of the average delluded exec in that respect. Hubbard putting a kid in the chain locker onboard the Apollo is a pretty sick fucking thing to do and ranks worse than an adult being punched. I'm pretty sure, even with Hubbards higher education, that if he was as fit as the dwarf then he might well have thrown a punch or two himself even, but no, Hubbard was more into the long term excruciating torture type of abuse which Miscavige also used in addition to his short sharp shock "personal service".

    For all those who think "oh noes, don't upset Martywarty coz he might stop talking"...well..bullshit. He's started now and he knows he has to finish, if he wants to be seen as doin the right thing.
  25. YAHRLY Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    can we safely say FUCK Rathbun now?
  26. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    You know what? Who the fuck cares if "Scientology" survives. If the corruption is removed, if people who broke the law are in jail, if the abuse stops, and if they STOP CENSORING MY GOD DAMN INTENERT, then I don't give a flying fuck about aliens.
  27. RightOn Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Corruption can not be removed from Scientology IMO, it is how they exist.
    Without brainwashing methods..... they are DEAD.
    They also can not survive without the Sea Org.
    So no brainwashing, no Sea Org...no COS
    Hubbard started the corruption, Miscavige fine tuned it.
  28. stuwyatt Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I believe Rathburn is trying to save his own skin.... that is all. He was responsible for abusing many members of staff when he was in the cult, and now that the shit is hitting the fan, he's trying to make himself appear to be a victim in all of this when in fact, he was an active participant in the abuses.

    He's just trying to protect himself from the shitstorm IMO.... Kudos for him speaking out and all that, but don't be fooled that he is doing it out of any moral reasons....
  29. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    I think the phrase: Don't look a gift horse in the mouth applies very well to this situation.


    Our shtick is to bring down organized Scientology. It's not our problem what happens to it afterwards and it doesn't matter other people's motives who aren't Anonymous. WE do what WE do. Celebrate the fact they've dealt a huge blow and get back to mocking people. Since when do we fucking care about motivation? OUR motivation is to annoy people!
  30. RightOn Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    This^^^^ I agree. Rathburn is trying to save his own skin.
    ( And Hi Stu, hope you are well)
    This news justs gots to make yah feel a whole lot better I would imagine?
  31. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    ^^^
    THIS too.

    If Rathburn magically becomes head of the cult then he will become a target again too. In the mean time this is just more wood to the fire. The fact abuses are being discussed demonstrates abuses took place.

    Another take on things: (possible troll post though) is here:

    Rant - Psycopaths make Terror in Scientology
  32. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Rathbun wants to make money off the people who left the cult, but are still too damaged to realize that Hubbard is the piece of shit responsible for all the abuses, he's still making money off Hubbard's mindfuck
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    the cult can't survive without that tax exemption and the slave labor. take away both of those and they're fucked. which is just fine with me. there has been nothing good to come out of $cientology.

    i don't trust rathbun or rinder. i believe they're both still lying about some major events. their hands will never be clean until they confess to everything.

    BTW? where is beghe? isn't it time for him to come out again and tell Anonymous that it's all over and we should back off or is he too busy hugging rathbun in texas?
  34. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Gift horse, or Trojan horse?

    The only thing that's stopping me from getting with what you say, HT, is the TAX EXEMPTION. We haven't brought them down until the tax exemption is revoked.

    I don't care about Rathbun's motivations; I care about his goal.

    Keeping Scientology working would definitely be the opposite of bringing it down, and I think Rathbun wants to KSW.

    Yes, it's a HUGE win that he spoke to the SP Times, even though I think he's lying about the use of blackmail.

    But he's not fighting for what we're fighting for, and I think we need to keep that in mind.
  35. pooks Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Here's my take on Marty at the moment. He's still pretty solidly in the Scio mindfuck but he's making steps in the right direction to get out of it. The facts of the matter are that he's a 27 year fully indoc'd Scio and just because he's been physically out for the past 4 years doesn't mean he's done anything about getting out of the mindset. Per his video's he's not even aware of Scn indoctrination. He labels it Black Dianetics, but he's yet to see that Black Dn is just Scn applied per Hubbard's tech..

    I've been out and working against the cult for almost 10 years. I can tell you from my own personal experience that after 4 years out of Scn and being a vocal critic that I still had "doubts" about whether I should call myself a Scio. It was a huge step for me to admit that Scn was not what I thought it was.

    It's not like you can wake up and realize something is serious wrong with the group and that you need to get away from it and then in the next few weeks you fully come to your senses and realize it's all shit and you can just turn it off. That scio shit is deeply ingrained and it fills your pores. It take a lot of work to strip off the indoctrination. Marty is only just baby steps out of a very long road to recovery. Christ, he still speaks like a Scio using their words and terminology. He's not yet able to speak without those terms. Ex's who force themselves to stop using the language, find out the indoctrination dissolves a lot faster.

    Scios, that are just in the beginning of leaving the mindset are not stable people. They are in the middle of having all their beliefs, thoughts, hopes, and dreams, thrown into utter chaos. Just imagine for a moment that you came to the realization that everything you believed in was a lie and that you've been duped, fooled and been a real asshole for the majority of your life. Then imagine what it would be like to try to get through the day. It ain't easy.

    Many Scios exit gradually, they see something is wrong with the "church", they see "management" is fuck, they start to see that "some" of hubbard's policies are not good, they find out that OSA, run by Slappy Miscavige, is vile, they find out Hubbard is a liar, BUT the tech still good, some of the tech is still good, it's all horseshit.

    Marty's at the beginning and has the balls to talk to the evil SP TIMES! He's gone from being involved on OPs on the media to spilling his guts. That's fucking huge and it's been something the OG only dreamed about. He's doing good and he has a very long way to go before he's going to be able to confront just how big of a dupe he's been. Hopefully he is hooked up with people that will continue to enlighten him about "the tech" and get him confront that Slappy Miscavige is a product of Hubbard Tech.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    yeah, yeah , yeah.....this is a familiar scenario of the want to continue the bait and switch via denial.
    Capt Bill Robertson
    David Mayo
    Pierre Either
    etc
    etc
    etc
    free zone

    CofS management = bad
    Hubtard = messiah

    Rathbum's shilling is quite indicative of what he wants in the interview
  37. Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Yeah. The destruction of evidence in the Lisa McPherson case.
  38. chrisanon Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Thx for your insights, pooks. You're really helping me to understand this.

    Here are some of my issues with Rathbun:

    First, he clearly thinks he's doing well enough to offer counseling to others. That gives the appearance that he thinks he's ready to help and lead others, not that he's looking for guidance for himself.

    Second, his EMSB post clearly affirms his belief in Hubbard's horseshit.

    Third, I think, despite his claims of "having confession", he's lying about some major events.

    If you want to heal from cultic abuses you have to get honest, it seems to me, and he's far from honest.

    I know that people of any education level can get caught up in a cult; it's an issue of emotional vulnerability, not brains.

    But it does seem to me that a lot of Scilons are smart college drop-outs, people who have intellectual curiosity but not discernment.

    Hubbard plagiarized from a lot of interesting authors, and he portrays himself as CERTAIN, so it doesn't surprise that sharp, intellectually naive people find his work fascinating and think it answers all their questions about life.

    Further, from my analysis of as much Hubbard as I could bear to read, I think he used some sophisticated thought-reform and mind control processes in his writing. So continuing to read his materials, and to use them professionally, doesn't help someone who's trying to get out of a cultic mindframe.

    IOW, I got the impression that Rathbun's a college drop-out. Arrested development often occurs in people who end up in cults. Where do you (or anyone) see Rathbun's growth, change, or development coming from?
  39. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    pooks = right IMO. (Edit: chrisanon is right too.) Also:

    Who the Miscaviage is "Rathburn"?
  40. Ackerland Member

    Re: What does Rathbun Want?

    Maybe he really tries to cover his ass. So what? In the US, courts give people who speak out against a criminal organization they used to be a member of exemption from punishment even if they themselves have crimes committed.

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