What a waste

Discussion in 'Fair Game Reports and Personal Experiences' started by anonanchovie, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. anonanchovie Member

    I am often deeply moved by tv news stories, but once in a while something really hits home. This could quite possibly be due to its powerful depiction of aspects of humanity such as human suffering and vindication. I am inclined to posit that such stories bring into sharp focus how terribly wasted; that is, cheap, shallow, frivolous and self centred my twenty two year Scientology career was. Scientology degraded me, used me, perverted me.

    Such stories as this depicted below zoom in on the cynical way in which the cult extravagantly squandered my own goodness, my willingness to sacrifice all those years, career prospects, possibility of the creation and nurturing of a wife and children of my own. The sharing of all the joy and pain of life with sisters, brothers, my foster parents, I can imagine the pure unadulterated thrill of teaching my unborn kids to sail, look after dogs, running on beaches, sunsets.

    I am moved to examine the way in which the cult of Scientology abused and devoured my loyalty, the power of my love for this world and my fellow human beings. I am fairly sure, that once the difficult years of my troubled teens and the grieving over the untimely deaths of my parents and subsequent breakup of my family had run their course, that I would have embarked on a career in education; focusing on children with special needs or traumatic backgrounds. But I ended up shilling for a cult who's only god was 'next week's big GI stat push'. I knew it all the time, I knew I was selling myself short, that knowledge constantly seared my conscience, but I refused to acknowledge it, till it was so very, very late.

    Please watch these (three) clips below, two are part 1and 2, a couple of years old, are from from the Australian 'Sixty Minutes' program, the other needs no introduction. Back to back they speak for themselves, yet spoke to me in profound way. (if YT are slow)

    Over the past couple of years I have been able to claw back some of the life I lost, I am well into middle age, and that has a limiting effect on career goals and the like, yet I find this Scientology free life so beautiful, so full of richness and potential. I remain saddened when I see commentary on boards and forums that are so obviously from Scientologists sent as bird dogs by OSA or directly by David Miscavige and RTC, when all they need to is do is to sit down and make an honest human comparison between what the cult says and does with such stories as depicted here, give us little a glimpse into something of what goes on in the lives of people in the real world.

    I would appeal to any public Scientologist carrying out internet trolling to stop for a moment, view these videos and maybe for once, do a really honest doubt formula. I did so a few years ago, and it was life changing.
    • Like Like x 16
  2. CarltonBANKS Member

    You should cross post this on (more eyeballs)
  3. CarltonBANKS Member

    /r/ Give John Duignan Moderation Rights, pls

    They should make you a moderator, so you can flag all OSA posts (even though we can guess who most of them are). (not necessarily talking about deleting such posts, just marking them as 'spam' or 'shit', so they don't clutter up the place)

    Da5id, are you listening, mate? This bloke has expertise in OSA tactics, as i'm sure you know.
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Zak McKracken Member

    I don't mean to be dismissive or rude,
    but he's not the only 'bloke' with personal experience in these tactics.

    Magoo, Smurf, Aaron Saxton - would make excellent Mod candidates by your criteria.
    I wouldn't tend to group him with the other three myself,
    but "expertise in OSA tactics" isn't the major thing lacking among WWP staff.
  5. Zak McKracken Member

    no offense to you either! :)

    You haven't posted enough here, for us to have really gotten to know you as an Interweb Forum personality.
    The major issues with the other three "candidates" weren't lack of qualification,
    but just a little bit too much brain damage from years of abuse by the cult.
  6. anonanchovie Member

    None taken Zak, I appreciate Carlton's suggestion, but not sure I am internet savvy enough, or have time enough to do a good job of moding. If you need any help in terms of, i don't know, scientologese or stuff like that, then, feel free to ask.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Anonymous Member

    But eventually you did and some people never do.
    Thank you very much for your openness and also thanks for writing your book. I have the deepest respect for your courage in writing this book and confronting your experience.
    Unfortunately the cult is expert at what it is doing in the recruitment department. When I am tempted to become judgmental about those recruited by the cult I remember stories like yours and wonder if it could happen to me as well if the circumstances were right and if I didn't know about scientology or similar groups and had not learned to recognize their tactics. I come to the conclusion that it could happen to pretty much anyone including myself.
    Again, thanks, even if that conclusion isn't comforting at all and pretty sobering.
  8. TinyDancer Member

    Damn it all, John. You made me cry watching that video again.

    Electricity in the brain saving a girl's life and family - LRH would turn in his grave, if he had one. It's a beautiful story. The doctor comes across rather well too, I thought.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Anonymous Member

    OSA tactics are easy enough to emulate, and I'd agree all posts identified as such be flagged regardless of whether it is OSA or just trolls/griefers behaving like them for teh lulz
  10. CarltonBANKS Member

    Hi Zak,

    'Bloke' is Brit-speak for dude. Others have experience too, though this bloke (dude) was pretty high up & has worked with "high up" Scientology OSA types, especially in Europe.

    The dude is in Italy and would have little time for modding, what I mean is that he is a trustworthy dude (as are Magoo etc). Being a mod is a chore, and we're grateful to the mods for all they do. 'twas just a suggestion that trusted people could maybe remove (or move) posts (not entire threads) that are blatantly trolling/derailing. (irony: s'pose I'm derailing a bit by this very post) .(Many hands make light work)

    For Zak:

  11. CarltonBANKS Member

    For sure, some will be bored eBaums World type people, winding up protest-fgs, for their amusement.
  12. CarltonBANKS Member

    Embedding the videos in John Duignan's post:

    • Like Like x 2
  13. Zak McKracken Member

    stc: i used air quotes around 'bloke' because one of the examples I cited wasn't a bloke.
    point being:

    the three I mentioned have or have had a great deal to offer WWP, and the scicritical commons.
    They are all credible, creditable and wonderful Suppressive Persons.
    They've all been OSA-certified in shattering Suppression.
    They've all (incidentally) been the center (or centre if you prefer) of massive butthurt drama and raeg on these here forums,
    far out of proportion to either the good they've done or the harms they've done.

    I'm glad that Smurf still sticks around here.
    I'm sorry that Tory & Aaron don't (though if they lurk, good on 'em).
    I don't think that bringing them online as moderators would benefit their own health and sanity,
    nor the stability and tranquility of WWP moderation as a whole.

    I'm just saying that "former OSA operatives" have a history of.... difficulty interfacing with WWP :}

    Theory: it can be tough maintaining friendly civility with wogs who hit back at you, on many of the same "triggers" that CoS tends to manipulate, even when just playing.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. CarterUSP Member

    You have a powerful story to tell, anonanchovie. Any one of us, in the right circumstances could have been pulled in to the pit of mindfunk that is scientology. Any normal person out there, in the right circumstances, could get hoodwinked too. The more information that is publicly known about this cult, the more people we give protection to its insidious ways. This is a battle worth fighting.
  15. CarltonBANKS Member

    There are so many failbook groups dedicated to teh evilz of electroshocking. (populated by scilons, obviously)

    Might be worth educating them, y'all

    Extra troll points: get clips of that video , upload and label as 'CCHR'

    Confession: I aint seen the video yet cos it's like, 60 mins. Tis on my todo list though.
  16. Miranda Member

    Provisions for such moves are in the works. For now, we've been instructed to "mod lite" and intervene only when people post illegal stuff, namefag others, totally derail threads with slapfights, etc. Be patient...
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Shinythings Member

  18. BLiP Member

    Cool post, very moving.

    I believe that using Scientology to explain Scientology will always result in a fallacious outcome because the answers Scientology gives are inadequate and false. Sure, use what ever it takes to get the hell out of the cult, but I wonder about the value of the Doubt Formula. If you have the inclination, would you mind please discussing a little more about your experience with the Doubt Formula. I have seen several Scientologists come out lately, all who claim to have done the Formula and all who cannot see past David Miscavige as the "WHO" and altered tech as, generally, the "WHY". Outside of Scientology, it is abundantly apparent that the WHO is L Ron Hubbard and the WHY is KSW. This extended-version Doubt Formula seems to me to be complete, where as this one is not. What were the results of your initial Doubt Formula and do you think you would have reached different conclusions knowing what you know now?

    This is just a general discussion rather than a criticism of your call for Scientologists to use the Doubt Formula. In fact, I praise you for it because it talks directly to them in a language they can understand and refers to tools they already have experience with. I guess if you're going to have a delusion shattered, better to do it bit by bit rather than all in one hit. Only trouble with that is there are various people about acting like vultures ready to swoop on the walking-wounded as they escape the cult.
    • Like Like x 5
  19. anonanchovie Member

    That is a well stated question, I will try to explain without tl;dr :-/

    I must admit, that I have a real aversion to making use of any Scientology terminology to explain or express pre-existant conditions, thought process or phenomena. I feel that indulging in the use of such is lazy and symptomatic of a fear, or worse, reluctance to engage in the real world and, more importantly, critical thinking. When I was on the cusp of waking up, it was due to the fact that I felt forced to start confronting the difference between actual empirical reality and the reality put forward by Hubbard and his successors and adopted unthinkingly by the vast majority of followers.

    I have a very strong suspicion that old Blubbard was well aware of the fact that within the confines of the cult programming - by that I mean inoculated against any other 'wog' ideas - i.e. Scientology has the ONLY tech to salvage man, cure aids, solve world hunger and the rest, that a follower would default to that conclusion no matter how bad their current circumstances were: be that facing disconnection from spouses, friends and children or bankrupting themselves to pay for OT V. I have to admit that within that framework I found using that piece of 'ethics tech' highly effective. I would not use it now, only the like of cult members and battered wives find themselves in the position whereby they have to rationalise quite idiotic and illogical teachings or commands to persuade themselves to remain in an untenable situation. Hubbard said at some point that 'The tech will set you free'. In my case it did, from the tech.

    For the activist, it is important to grasp the fact that a Scientologists finds it neigh on impossible to think with anything but Blubbard's 'teachings'. It is in that context that I addressed the post to a Scientologist that may stumble upon the posting. If they honestly did the doubt formula, something Hubbard did not imagine that they would do, they would realize that it was a great big crock of shit and remove themselves from the cult's malign influence.

    I can't say how I would react now to a similar circumstance, like I said, sci tech works only in the context of sci.

    I would not worry about the fact that there are vultures oround trying to recovince those in doubt to come back into the fold, I have enough faith in humananity to believe that once they se the light, they will not be persuaded back, and if they are, even then, they have to a greater or lesser degree woken up and they programming will be far less effective. Once they have seen the emporer nacked, they cannot get that image out of their minds, no matter how well dressed he may be subsequently.
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Anonymous Member

    Possible Vulture = I wonder who you could be worried about


    It's useful that ex-Scientologists have the ability to decipher this in-penetrable jargon. It's acutely annoying when Marty Rugburn uses it, he needs to learn to let go. (Marty's motives and behaviour are opaque, in contrast to John Anchovie Duignan.) I find Marty extremely boring anyway, probably cos he's American.)
    I tolerate Rugburn though, cos if Marc Headley stands shoulder-to-shoulder with him,

    i.e. just cos someone uses the odd bit of jargon, it's not necessarily sinister. It can be used by us to break barriers.

    Knowing people who can speak Scientolegese has been very valuable, for example when trying to decipher those PTS Handling Reports, leaked a year or two ago. (Update on that: Agnieszka Deutschman and Felix Colley are still Scientologists. Front-line recruiter Felix (aka red-tie man) has not been seen, in London, since he left for Flag circa 2009. Agnieszka Deutschman was withdrawn from front-line recruiting immediately after the leak, she used to stand in front of the TCR shop, pimping 'stress tests'. )


    Background/Further Reading: There's an interesting article on why cults use their own lingo.:

  21. CarltonBANKS Member

    Oops, i accidentally the 'post anon' button, instead of preview.

  22. Herro Member

    I should be made a mod. Being a current member of OSA, I will be able to identify OSA posts with ease.
  23. As you're not OSA and a Mod already.

    You could be a Mod's Mod and the Leader and Chief of the Department of Redundancy OSA Department for OSA.
  24. Jinkii Member

    Herro isnt osa, if WWP was Team Fortress 2 he would be the guy setting up teleporters that take you right in front of the enemy sentries. aka a Griefer, the fact people keep crying OSA OSA OSA everytime he calls you on your bullshit means you need to take a look at yourselves.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Miranda Member

    It's a tradition.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. BLiP Member

    For sure. Although not required for an activist to protest the cult, there is a steep learning curve to get a full understanding of the cult mindset. One point you didn't mention (but I'm sure you are aware of) is the inability of many Scientologists to separate the tech from their own individual being. This snippet from the PTS Handling linked above, I think, pretty much sums it up:

    In effect, we are shouting "Scientology destroys families" but they are hearing "You destroy families", which, in a way, almost creates a "besiege" mentality, driving the scuttling Scilons closer to seek reassurance from each other and further reinforce the implant. For inoculating raw meat, such tactics are brilliant, but in terms of reaching out to individual Scilons, there is an argument that they are counter-productive. And I wonder if the Doubt Formula isn't also counter productive. Those who apply it and come to the conclusion to leave the cult appear to be using it to justify a decision that they have already made rather than arrived at as a result. Lets face it, there is no action by David Miscavige which is outside the purview of policy, even the alteration of tech (c.f., HCO PL 5 Oct 59 "Tape and Record Production Hat").

    Now, you and I can chase each other through the scripture to prove our points but, ultimately, we both are going to end up at the master policy document, KSW. Therein, lies the admonition that the number one reason the tech doesn't work is because people doubt its efficacy. Thus, to do the Doubt Formula one must already be in that treasonous state. There is also the possibility that those who's doubt is flimsy will, rather than reach the conclusion to leave, may well decide to stay. Its all very well for the pampered OTs swanning about creating universes to realise there's real problems, but what about the front-line grunts? My question to you is: what other pieces of tech can we use to leverage doubt amongst them?

    TL DR: How can we use the tech to better communicate with Scilons?
  27. OTBT Member

    So which mod's turn is it to be Herro today?
    • Like Like x 1
  28. pedrofcuk Member

    I am active in freeing scilons and I have to say that whatever it takes to get them to wake up is VALID! JD will agree.

  29. hushpuppy Member

    Not an ex myself, but reading post game reports here - and a variety of blogs elsewhere, it seems to me that NOT using lrh tech has been more successful in breaking down the brainwashing barriers.
    The open ended signs and mantras seem to me to have had a much greater effect.

    Posts/mantras like 'It's OK to have doubts, Your mother loves you and misses you, Do you think you deserve a day off' seem to move the believers out of their brainwashed comfort zone more so than engaging them in the tech IMHO.
    • Like Like x 3
  30. BLiP Member

    I tend to agree. The use of the tech plays into the Scilon's hands in some respects. By not playing their "game" they are generally left flustered and eventually have to confront the idea that its not the end all and be all of civilisation. Also, those protest signs and comments which go straight to the person and the standard human emotions, I'm sure, are hugely penetrating.

    Still, if there are some aspects of the tech which could work in our favour, lets be having them.
    • Like Like x 1
  31. I think this isn't too off topic:

    Just remember that even when Gerry Armstrong discovered that LRH lied about his past; he still believed in the "tech". It was only when he was punished by "ethics" that he finally started to break free.

    I think that is a good thing to remember.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. pedrofcuk Member

    Dead right, Jaycee. Good example of the mindfuck.
  33. anonanchovie Member

    Horses for courses I think. There would be to some, a considerable shock value in seeing 'wogs' holding up a poster that says 'Your obnosis is out'. Equally for the Sea Org ' When did you last get libs?' but also effective is, for sure' 'When did you last take a real holiday' (vacation in the US). The OP contrasted graphically, real people dealing with a real tragic situation and getting a positive result, showing that wog tech works, but also, and more fundamentally, that Scientology just deals with the froth of the shit that they themselves make up to keep the sheep paying, slaving or whatever it is that they do. A plastic movie hero cannot speak to the heart like a family struggling with real pain, that is the whole point. Posters will go some way, but contrasting the cult BS with the real world is always more powerful. But that is difficult to do, and impossible if one is doing a raid. I suppose it is all food for thought.
  34. CarltonBANKS Member

    Colours make things easier to understand.

    For the benefit of ppl who just skim read threads, here's some big writing.Uuse text below if you want to troll hard/ infiltrate their world/push buttons.

    Outside Orgs:
    Your obnosis is out

    Out side Sea Org places:
    When did you last get libs?
  35. Anonymous Member

    High-contrast colors make things easier to understand.
    Low contrast, like Gold on White = worse.
  36. xenubarb Member

    I like it when he makes up bullshit for you and then calls you on it. It's cute.
  37. CarltonBANKS Member

    The Gold on white stuff is understated and is only for people brand new to this site. But yeah, it looks crappy, I know.
  38. CarltonBANKS Member

    I've never seen him probed by a journalist before

    I watched these for the first time ever last night:

    My favourite part was when he said the Cult Awareness Network is 'like the KKK is to the blacks'
    I also enjoyed his monologue on the role of psychology in the holocaust. I had read his words in Scilon magazines, but never heard them come out of his mouth. OMG.

    He's so unbelievably pathetic in front of a journalist.

    JD - have you met him? Do please tell, if not on here then via email
    • Like Like x 1
  39. DeathHamster Member

    Hey, apparently he awarded himself an Emmy replica for his performance.
  40. anonanchovie Member

    I have indeed met him on several occasions, and been in his close vicinity many times. He is an arrogant person, unbelievably so. But he was civil enough with me, if somewhat patronisng. He clearly thinks that the world will stop turning if lets up for one moment, and that is an unhealthy trait in a man with absolute power over an organisation made of stupid people who uncritally worship every breath that he takes. Not much more to say about him that has not already been said.
    • Like Like x 2

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