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Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by tendervittles, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. tendervittles Member

    Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    There is a distinct shortage of info about exactly what was going on in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949. Older Scientology web pages say that LRH was conducting Dianetics experiments and healing the mad. "Piece of Blue Sky" says very little. As we know, Hubbard wrote to a Los Angeles shrink, asking for help, in 1948 (I believe it was). Does anyone have more details about what brought Hubbard to Savannah, and what he did there? Pic related.

    fdx6au.jpg
  2. CantPickaName Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    I also could find very little on this

    I want to know more
  3. whatwhat Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Central State Hospital was known as the Georgia State Sanitarium in 1948. By 1960 it was the largest asylum in the country. If he was a patient anywhere, it may have been there.

    New Georgia Encyclopedia: Central State Hospital
    This page says:
    http://centralstatehospital.org/GENEALOGY.htm
    They should have records if elron was there, but since it was less then 75 years ago those records might be hard to pry loose.
  4. themadhair Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Inb4OSArobbery
  5. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    I am dragging this out of the cobwebs in my brain, but I know I read, somewhere in the FOIA info, or...was it the shit on smoking gun...that indeed LRon had an unfortunate incarceration in an insane assylum, no dox were in the dox, just a statement to that effect. I recall being stunned when I read it because the only other references to his insanity were his wife/ex, himself in his admissions, and in that letter to the VA begging for mental health care help.

    I can state for certain that it was NONE of the known instances, I dropped my teeth when I read it wondering why ANON had not jumped on it, then, thinking to myself that surely ANON had read it and surely I am misinterpreting the statement...but apparently I was not. The thing most certainly referred to LRON as having been in an insane asylum.
  6. Silver Scream Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    There's no doubt in my mind that L. Ron Hubbard was insane. Why else would he have written "Dianetics"? :D LOL Then again, I know some people who are so smart, that they ultimately go insane. I, myself, was in and out of the psych ward for approxamately two years! You have to be pretty intellegent to see the flaws in modern day society. All of our flaws could make someone suicidal or homosidal! :( Think about it...We are all intellegent to see the errors in Scientology! We are against the church, so we must see an error in it. You have to be smart to point out flaws in society. Being smart can cause mental health problems. I'm not saying that L. Ron was smart, but maybe he was?!?! :confused: I really don't know what to say...all of us are smart for pointing out the wrongs of Scientology! Congrats on being intellegent!!! :D Well, okay maybe L. Ron was smart to come up with a bunch of bull shit that nobody can understand! LOL
  7. NotMike Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Modern day society has flaws!!!!!!!
  8. 13Heathens Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    A little historical context..

    The word Psychiatry was first coined around 1808. At this time Asylums were places people were often sent to and forgotten about.. The early treatments used a medical model for treatment, including bloodletting and dismembering patients.

    After Sigmund Freud's contribution in 1880, and Carl Jung's contributions starting in 1912 There had been little change. As their acceptance grew the idea of TREATMENT became preferable to locking people up and pretty much forgetting about them. After this change of view toward mental illness several rather nasty early treatments were devised ..

    Lobotomies were used primarily between 1930-1950

    Insulin shock therapy was introduced in 1933 and ceased by the 1970's
    (except in few countries like China and Russia)

    Electro-shock therapy was introduced in the 1930's, and was in widespread use through the 40's and 50's. The earl form of shock therapy were real nasty..

    The first drug to deal with psychosis (Thorazine) wasn't introduced until 1954.

    So, being institutionalizing during that time period would have been pretty damn nasty, and would certainly have explained his hatred for, and obsession with psychiatry.

    Sherwin Nuland on electroshock therapy | Video on TED.com
  9. Nataku Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    "In point of fact, the whole of the Savannah “charity list,” some twenty men and women in all, were eventually discharged from the asylum following LRH employment of Dianetics procedures."
  10. 13Heathens Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Speaking as someone that's been in psyche wards.. LRH would have been punished for interfering with the treatment of patients, and punished for doing so. The claim is laughable.
  11. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    NOT if he was a fellow patient. After re reading some things and guessing between the lines, I am beginning to believe that L. Ron's first unfortunate incarceration for mental illness would have been at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital. Back then they were more careful with mentioning mental health diagnosis and I think that very often they were just left off the records.

    Back then they didn't call insanity for what it was...clearly just reading the above synopsis one comes away feeling LRON was delusional. Since mental illness had such a stigma back then it was not talked about, and it was covered up. PTSD had a nice fluffy name if it was named at all...how come he was in the hospital at all if he was so healthy and passed the physical?

    I BET he was on the psych ward at Oak Knoll. There he would have access to all the patients...in his delusions he could formulate all sorts of theories on mental health, interview and talk to all the patients he wanted...after all he was one of them. I do not think people can just walk into a mental health ward at any hospital, even back then, and start "treating" patients...however a patient who THINKS he is treating other patients...hell that's in every book, movie, and personal testimony about time in a mental health institution, even now. He might have been transferred to outpatient care at Savannah. His wife made a very clear statement about his mental health, in 1951, just a few short years after he's certain he's found the cure...(and goes further round the bend, she cannot take it anymore, but she sure as hell knows what condition he's got...)

    The FBI thought Lron was mental...

    He wrote about Sara, his wife:
  12. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Holy shit. This is important. Best thread i have seen in weeks. We haz HARDCORE Anon in Savannah. Need to do a little digging here.
  13. tendervittles Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Russell Miller's "Bare-faced Messiah" also holds remarkably little information about Savannah.

    Something fishy here!

    I agree, especially back then, "lay practitioners" didn't get to come in and mess with the patients.

    I bet a dollar that at minimum, he was an outpatient, and got a few electroshocks.

    • p. 123: During the 'year' he had spent in Oak Knoll Naval Hospital, Ron would claim he had had the run of the medical library and access to the medical records of former prisoners of war. He began experimental psycho-analysis on ex POWs, 'using a park bench as a consulting room', and his research continued ever more intensively through the post-war years. In Savannah, he said, he worked as a volunteer lay practitioner in a psychiatric clinic, helping charity patients no one else would treat. There was, perhaps, no reason why anyone should question the veracity of Hubbard's research, but his friends must have been puzzled that they knew nothing of it.
    • p. 143: Shortly afterwards, Ron and Sara left California for Savannah, Georgia, where, Ron would claim later, he embarked upon another important stage of his pioneering research into the unexplored recesses of the human mind.
    • p. 144: Addressing Ackerman, as always, as '4E', Ron wrote from Savannah to say that he had set up an office in the apartment building where he was living on Drayton Street. It was a very nice place, he said, and could easily become a den of vice, 'so I only allow women over 16 in there'. He had acquired a dictaphone machine which Sara was 'beating out her wits on' transcribing not only fiction but his book on the 'cause and cure of nervous tension', which he was going to call either The Dark Sword or Excalibur or Science of the Mind. He was writing so much fiction, Sara was having to work on the manuscript in fits. 'So far, however,' he wisecracked, 'she has recovered easily from each fit.'
    • pp. 304-5: She invited him to her dorm, where he introduced himself as L. Ron Hubbard's agent and said he had a statement to read to her. While Alexis sat stunned, the man read out a statement in which Hubbard categorically denied he was her father: 'Your mother was with me as a secretary in Savannah in late 1948...
  14. whatwhat Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    postcardyftceg3.jpg
  15. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    A year is about the length of time for a mental health incarceration...back then when they didn't have medications and the most effective treatment was ECT...and hypnosis...do recall that LRON was called an EXCELLENT hypnotist and people did not know where he'd learned the skill and assumed perhaps Parsons. I charge he learned it while in the mental hospital People always misjudge the insane, insane does not mean stupid...they are often quite brilliant people..LRON's ego probably had him convinced HE could come up with a good treatment so he went around the ward with a clipboard, paper and pen and interviewed his fellow patients. Hell, for all we know he was truly insane but at the same time working the section 8 angle.
  16. juche Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Ahaahahahahah amazing XD!!
  17. auchraw Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    As everyone knows Hubbard applied for psychiatric treatment when he left the Navy and it is supposed, or said, that this was a scam on his part and was refused. But who says so? How do we know it was refused? Maybe he was mad at the time and admitted for treatment: why should this surprise anyone?

    Dianetics evolved out of his very real interest in psychiatry and knowledge of its techniques.

    And in that very odd BBC interview on board the Apollo? in the 1960s? (details, details) the interviewer asks him: Do you think you are mad? And old Hub without batting an eyelid says: Oh yes, there is nothing as mad as a madman (or something equally crazy).

    His opposition to psychiatrists might have been because he knew they would know exactly what he was up to and taken steps to stop it. If he was really insane already in the 1940s, maybe he believed that everything he wrote was really true!
  18. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Must dig DEEEEEEEP.
  19. CantPickaName Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    hubbardflewcd5.gif
  20. xseaorguk Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    I think in the interview from 1967 on the ship something like:

    Question by reporter:
    "do you ever think that you might be quite mad"

    Answer LRH:
    'The only man who desnt believe he is insane is a madman'
  21. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Hubbard talks about an apartment on Drayton Street in Savannah Georgia. This checks out. The street does exist. It runs parallel to a large park. As to the Milledgeville connection. Savannah is not that close. But, there were some smaller asylums in savannah @ the time of Hubtards alleged stay in the city.
  22. mefree Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    This is correct and I just saw the post card below. This is the most likely facility. Milledgeville, GA is its location.
  23. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    LMFAO
  24. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Any records of LRON being in an institution have long been stolen or "lost"...the best thing would be to have doc and or nurses "remember" cause seems to me the patients, for the most part, won't be very reliable :D

    Maybe he came up with xenu while in either Oak Knoll or Midgeville :D THAT would explain a lot.
  25. mefree Member

  26. tendervittles Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    What about this "Dr. Abraham Center" whom Hubbard disparages. I'm sure he's dead, of course, but maybe some tidbits could be gleaned about something or other if we knew who this guy was. Name possible to be misspelled. I did some cursory searches this morning (3 pm here now), but I'm at work and can't do nothin' more until tonight. Anyone want to poke around for info about Dr. Abraham Center?
  27. firebug Member

  28. Stutroup Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Somehow the second-to-last paragraph sounds like Scientology's favorite people to claim to fix ... is it possible Hubbard's stay had influenced him that way?

    I mean along the lines of, "Why are there people with TB in a mental hospital?" leading to assumptions that at least some diseases are psychosomatic -- it's just an example.
  29. pardmepard Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Maybe this was some of the info, they wanted to erase with op snow white etc ?
  30. ravenanon Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    thats not the same hospital as originally posted imo. missing the ling between these two places
  31. mefree Member

  32. firebug Member

  33. mefree Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    It could be there was a smaller center in Savannah. Central State was just the most utilized mental health facility in GA during that time period, that I am aware of.
  34. Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    I don't think the hospital was Midgeville..

  35. Re: Abraham Center

    license
    Issue Date: 07/10/1933
    Expiration Date: 12/31/1987

    He's probably dead or quite ancient...he was old enough to be a shrink in 1933 which puts him at 20 something by 1933?
  36. pardmepard Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Not only did Hubbard do the religious angle which actually came later as cloaking, but one that isn't addressed often enough is the Mental health angle.

    If he was so concerned about people, why would he, now They, threaten something worse unless to make money like they did back in the dark ages of psychiatry ?

    Because he/they are greedy pigs who love to exploit people for filthy lucre.

    scientology must be dismantled.
  37. TomVorm Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    A book on by Harold P. Henderson published in 2000, was titled "Ernest Vandiver" (for the reformist governor of Georgia first elected in 1958).

    On pages 99-100 in the chapter titled "Vandiver's First Year", the google-book version states that in 1959, the Midgeville State Hospital (which had over 12,000 patients) was subject to the "Schaefer Report" from the state legislature. It stated allegations of misconduct, including hiring physicians who had drug and alcohol problems and allowing physicians to receive elective (psychiatric) surgery at "Jones Hospital".

    A later visit by the governor and his wife, described encounters of horrifying conditions there. Senate president pro tempore Sanders stated "Most Georgia farmers have better quarters for their livestock." Lieutenant Governor Byrd agreed, insisting that "they had better facilities in the Dacha prison camp in Germany."

    Recommended was the dismissal of its Superintendent Thomas G. Peacock (who had oversight there since 1948, which would include the time frame of LRH's "research"), in favor of a licensed psychiatrist.
  38. TomVorm Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    Death indexes list an "Abraham Center" SSN 258-48-6486 born on September 15, 1907, and deceased in May 1986 in Savannah, Georgia.
  39. FreakE420 Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    1104166.jpg

    1220932137_9db55bc00a.jpg
  40. TomVorm Member

    Re: Was Hubbard a PATIENT in the Savannah Insane Asylum in 1949?

    According to a court ruling in Georgia, there was a psychiatrist named "A. H. Center"
    in the early 1960's. Another web page lists a Surgeon named "Abraham H. Center" at a CCC camp in 1933. So it's likely the full name would be: Dr. Abraham H. Center, possibly (according to 1920 Census records) related to the Center family in Chatam County, Georgia.


    FIELDS v. THE STATE., 221 Ga. 307, 144 S.E.2.d 339 (1965), Supreme Court of Georgia, (July 12, 1965)

    "2. In grounds 1 and 2 of the amended motion for new trial it is urged that the court erred in admitting and refusing to strike a portion of the testimony of Dr. A. H. Center, a psychiatrist who testified that the defendant was insane. The testimony in question was elicited from Dr. Center on cross examination and consisted of statements made by the defendant to Dr. Center in the course of his examination of the accused. It is the contention of the defendant that the admission of this testimony violates Code Ann. 38-418 (5) (Ga. L. 1959, p. 190) which provides that communications between psychiatrist and patient are privileged."

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