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Village Voice: The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology

Discussion in 'Media' started by Sponge, Aug 5, 2011.

  1. hushpuppy Member

    I could not like this

    grrrr
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Anonymous Member

  3. DeathHamster Member

    In 1987, Marty was probably in charge of the operations against BFM. Maybe Scientology just repeats the usual Marty attack on BFM?
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Smurf Member

    This proves what me, Gerry, and a host of other exes have been saying about Marty all along & all his merry band of Indpendents that line up to drink his holy piss every chance that they can get.. he's a self-serving narcissist who attacks those he cannot control. He ridicules Tony because TO didn't report what Marty wanted him, too.
    In the last 2 weeks, we've heard from Graham Berry & a few others that we should all hold hands & sing Kumbaya with Marty, because we're all on the same team to give DM the boot and end Scientology's abuses.

    Marty's "open letter" says it all. Scientology's abuses started with LRH. The whole sordid factual history of LRH has been exposed, despite the efforts of "Miscavologists" and Marty's fan club to distort & deflect from the facts. Marty is angry that Tony took exception to his hero, L. Ron Hubbard. Marty is angry that Tony had the nerve to speak the truth and not fall prey to Marty's bullshit. The comments on Marty's blog is a testament to the Kool Aid drinkers that bow to everything Hubbard.

    Marty is a freak of nature. Tony spoke the truth.
    • Like Like x 18
  5. I've had the problem for going on two days. Also, server lags and sometimes creating multiple posts. I've given up trying to "like" anonymous posts, but expect to perhaps return to these as the problems with the servers diminishes.
  6. Triumph Member

    well thats predictable that Martys gonna bust a hemorrhoid over Hubbard being mentioned

    some comments: also predictable
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Miranda Member

    Me too. But I find that often when I think I've failed to post or "like" something, if I go back to the thread, it did work after all.
  8. Smurf Member

    Whenever I post, I get a wierd error message that says I can't post. When I refresh the page, I see my post went through. I've been doing this for the last 2 days.
  9. tikk Member

    Thanks everyone for reminding me why I like coming here. You're all awesome.
    • Like Like x 14
  10. Smurf Member

    No U.
    • Like Like x 9
  11. Anonymous Member

    polls_cat_i_barf_3437_384303_answer_3_xlarge.jpeg
  12. You might not get the same reception at Marty's blog just now. :)
    • Like Like x 2
  13. I tried as well, twice. And the post went from showing no likes to showing:
    hushpuppy, , and -4 others like this

    Does that mean 4 others hated the post? ;)

    I've been having this difficulty for a couple of days.

    And back to the story...
    Yes indeed, Tony spoke the truth. Can we have some more sexy pics of Tony now?
    • Like Like x 4
  14. Anonymous Member

    LOL. Karen de la Carriere (Heber's daffy ex-wife) posted on Marty's blog...

    "Scott Pilutik is a lawyer. But how is he an authority on Hubbard?"

    Enjoy your Texas Kool Aid, Daffy.
  15. tikk Member

    Apparently not. Probably going to lose some friends on FB even. I'll keep my eyes out for a coping mechanism that's not illegal.
    • Like Like x 16
  16. Indeed, but that's also because Marty thinks that LRH Kool-Aid is his one and only meal-ticket....

    Marty now claims LRH is dead and has no more say in how Scientology is used, so Marty is going to change the "scriptures" and pick and choose the policies? Are you CHANGING LRH Scriptures, Marty?.....

    LRH Disconnection?....
    LRH RPF and Children's RPF separating families?....
    LRH brutal Security and Children's Security Checks?....
    LRH medically dangerous Purification Rundown?....
    LRH Calmag and Niacin overdoses?....
    LRH Narconon multi-million dollar scam?....
    LRH Abduction Lockdown Therapy aka The Introspection Rundown?...

    You're very familiar with the LRH introspection rundown, Marty, remember the "TECH" that killed a physically healthy Lisa Mcpherson after 17 torturous days locked in a guarded room by "babysitters" trained by the likes of YOU who watched her die and you ordered critical evidence destroyed to protect your wonderful LRH "TECH" and now you cry waah, waah Squirrel-Busters? Did she die in that room at the Fort Garrison, Marty????........
    Marty????.....

    Marty's a complete fraud who accepts no responsibility for all of the abuses LRH's "tech" led to and he himself brutally participated in so, you know what? Go fuck yourself, Marty and your plan to "SAVE" batshit L. Ron Hubbard's legacy for your own profit. It's all out , it's overwhelming evidence of Hubbard's abuse, stop re-abusing those who have already been hurt for your own benefit, you miserable prick.

    I hope he himself admits that LRH was an utter fraud one day and truly helps ALL ex-scientologists to get a fresh start , he could be a help to those he has helped delude and abuse all these years in the name of standard LRH "Tech" by simply telling the truth for once......

    Enough is enough..........

    Don't bank on this abusive coward, Marty Rathbun doing the right thing.......

    Nice try on trying to use Tony Ortega and the Village Voice survery to promote your ends, Marty?....

    Tony Ortega's not buying into your spin and ended by calling out Scientology's Sacred Cow, noted liar, L. Ron Hubbard and Marty doesn't like it.........waah......waah.....STFU......
    • Like Like x 7
  17. Scotch
    • Like Like x 4
  18. Miranda Member

    Laugh. A lot. :)

    Joking and deriding ftw.
    • Like Like x 4
  19. incog712 Member

    Freedumb Magazine couldn't have said it better. At the slightest provocation, Martyr kicks straight into textbook Black PR operations. All the while, his merry little band of moonbats actually believe that he wouldn't go after them just as quickly with whatever else he might pull out of Hubbards bag of tricks any time he feels the need.

    If his "movement" ever grew larger than a typical check-out line at Walmart I might feel a bit worried for them, but that's unlikely.
    • Like Like x 6
  20. Anonymous Member

    I sure hope not, "Jeff", because that would be illegal. Now, where would anyone even get such a notion that this might be a possibility?

    Oh yeah, from LRH himself (You might want to reread the dead guy's October 18, 1967 "Penalties for Lower Conditions" policy letter. Pay special attention to the instructions for what to do with an "Enemy".)
  21. Anonymous Member

    Can someone c&p the Marty blog where he bawwwws. I ain't going to that shithouse of a website to read that. Sooner read up on it here.
  22. Anonymous Member


  23. Sure........
    • Like Like x 7
  24. Sam Urai Member

    Here you go:
    An Open Letter to Tony Ortega

    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/l_ron_hubbard_top_25_crippling_scientology.php

    Notwithstanding your prediction, you won’t hear any howls from me Tony. Only a long sigh of disappointment.
    You start out your opus on L Ron Hubbard with an interesting incongruity: the Village Voice sanctimoniously talking down on somebody for being “a bigamist” and an “occult dabbler.” Really? Who do you expect to stand out of line and swim against the current at the height of the Cold War, McCarthyism, and state sponsored institutional psychiatry? The monogamous, obeying, church-going Ozzie Nelson? I would think the Village Voice of all fairly influential publications would understand this: If you want to find someone to step outside the box and question the manner in which humankind has been doing business for thousands of years don’t call on Little Lord Fauntelroy.
    The first crux of your attempted take down of L Ron Hubbard begins with a straw man burning of what you quote a religious scholar as calling the church’s “mythological hagiography” of Hubbard. Tony, name an established religion whose founder or messenger is promoted by its organization with anything other than a “mythological hagiography.”
    You then “prove” it’s all by Hubbard’s design by taking a third-rate propaganda piece (Russell Miller’s Barefaced Messiah) and converting it into, well, your Bible. It is the same technique being used by mainstream, corporate media for the past sixty years to make fun of and tear down that which it doesn’t have the intellectual integrity to attempt to understand. So, just as you introduced your hagiography burning by allowing yourself to call my “bullshit”, please allow me to call yours.
    I explained to you at some length my own considerations about Hubbard’s hagiography; and explained to you that most Independent Scientologists share them. First, I told you that I was not the kind of person to allow someone’s alleged “biography” to influence my evaluation of the workability of methods suggested by that person. In fact, I told you that I caught myself beginning to do so when I first entered a church of Scientology in 1977. But, it wasn’t in the way you’ve inferred is the only way to evaluate the worth of Scientology. I saw a photo of Hubbard in his naval uniform, with some plug as to how this showed him to be credible. I nearly made an about face right then and there because to me the last cred I would credit in the field of the mind and the spirit would be someone’s stint as an officer in the US Navy. But, I decided to keep an open mind and stay focused on what he had to offer; and more importantly to test for myself whether it produced a result. Remember, I was a writer for the alternative paper at the University I had attended before all this; I had been honing my bullshit detector for some time.
    Whether Hubbard was a blood brother to Native Americans, an Eagle Scout, a teenager who in the 1920’s once used a pejorative term to refer to Chinese, was responsible for killing a sub full of people, considered homosexuality deviant in 1951, or generally went about his life with a bigger-than-life swag really never figured into the equation for me.
    So, your part A, for me, is not much more than much ado about nothing.
    As for your part B, the recitation and condemnation of the very few words you cherry picked out of the millions Hubbard wrote and spoke on the subject of Scientology, your techniques were even more disappointing. I’ll cite some of the words you chose to characterize as policy, and give each passage a touch of context.
    a. “The only way you can control people is to lie to them.”
    Tony, I have heard more than one one-hour lecture by Hubbard where takes this axiom and ruthlessly examines it toward forever freeing those listening from ever being controlled through lies.
    b. Your repeated references to and quotes on the Hubbard Policy Letter Keeping Scientology Working:
    In context, again as I explained to you, outside the culture of the church that policy letter, Keeping Scientology Working, means ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” That was the meaning my wife summed up as gleaning from it. As you know she had never set foot in any “church” of Scientology, and therefore was uninfluenced by the culture of Miscavige that interprets virtually everything for people, when I asked her to read it. But, apparently her view doesn’t count, not when it might slow down a witch burning of L Ron Hubbard.
    c. “There’s only one remedy for crime — get rid of the psychs! They are causing it!”
    Is Shakespeare condemned for having prescribed a disappearing of all lawyers to remedy the world’s ills? Is Michael Moore condemned for cheerleading for the abolition of all Capitalists to create peace on earth? Certainly not in your publication. Further, it really doesn’t sound much different from the attitude you’ve espoused about Scientology in your article on Hubbard. Glass houses?
    d. “A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable.”
    Tony, while you know damn well that I – and all Independents I know - take exception to any attitude or conduct even reflecting adherence to the above sentence, let’s add a broader type of context. Apparently the mental health field is sixty years later coming round to Hubbard’s way of thinking. I am reading a book (The Sociopath Next Door) by a prominent practitioner in the specialty of repairing the victims of sociopaths. Her description of the sociopath reads like a modern day rewrite of Hubbard’s descriptions of what he then called the covertly hostile person, and later called the suppressive person. The psychiatrist announces that modern psychiatry cannot cure the sociopath, and muses for 3 pages beating around the bush about what then to do about them – the subtext is clear, she wishes it were 1951 and it was politically correct to say “quarantine them”, but alas, it is 2011 and she winds up babbling into apathy over the problem.
    e. “MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.”
    A Finance Office policy. I think if your job is Finance and you do things that do not add up to making more money and getting others to do the same, you are not long for finance (whether you are in the Finance Office of the Catholic Church, the United Way, or General Motors). To infer this policy applies broadly to Scientologists is just a plain cheap shot.
    To place L Ron Hubbard above David Miscavige in your rankings of those doing the most to “cripple Scientology” does everyone a disservice in my opinion. L Ron Hubbard died twenty-five years ago. He wrote what he wrote. He has no further say in what people do with what he wrote. Following your logic, the solution would lie along the lines a good old-fashioned book burning. Further, you are naïve to assume there are more active Corporate Scientologists (whom Miscavige demands read Hubbard the way you have chosen to) than there are Independent Scientologists (who don’t miss the forest for the trees and choose to apply what Hubbard wrote in a sensible, lawful, respectful manner befitting the age in which they live). Your final article tells the latter that they are no different than the former – that all are condemned to read and apply Hubbard as you and David Miscavige have chosen to. Worse, you aid and abet a dangerous sociopath by providing him with the ultimate defense – Hubbard made him do it.
    I respectfully disagree.
    While Independent Scientologists might be inclined to howl, I can guarantee you one thing. They won’t investigate you, they won’t threaten you, they won’t attempt to intimidate you, they won’t threaten to sue you, they won’t sue you, and they won’t do much of anything to make you even slightly uncomfortable.
    I’ve got news for your Tony. Those facts right there about how Independent Scientologist will conduct themselves towards you is living proof that your article was dead wrong.
    Peace my brother.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Anonymous Member

    Totally off-topic, but the way Lightattheendofthetunnel appears in small browsers makes it look like the end of the word literally has disappeared into a tunnel.

    I LOLed.
  26. Sam Urai Member

    Here you go:
    An Open Letter to Tony Ortega

    http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/l_ron_hubbard_top_25_crippling_scientology.php

    Notwithstanding your prediction, you won’t hear any howls from me Tony. Only a long sigh of disappointment.

    You start out your opus on L Ron Hubbard with an interesting incongruity: the Village Voice sanctimoniously talking down on somebody for being “a bigamist” and an “occult dabbler.” Really? Who do you expect to stand out of line and swim against the current at the height of the Cold War, McCarthyism, and state sponsored institutional psychiatry? The monogamous, obeying, church-going Ozzie Nelson? I would think the Village Voice of all fairly influential publications would understand this: If you want to find someone to step outside the box and question the manner in which humankind has been doing business for thousands of years don’t call on Little Lord Fauntelroy.

    The first crux of your attempted take down of L Ron Hubbard begins with a straw man burning of what you quote a religious scholar as calling the church’s “mythological hagiography” of Hubbard. Tony, name an established religion whose founder or messenger is promoted by its organization with anything other than a “mythological hagiography.”

    You then “prove” it’s all by Hubbard’s design by taking a third-rate propaganda piece (Russell Miller’s Barefaced Messiah) and converting it into, well, your Bible. It is the same technique being used by mainstream, corporate media for the past sixty years to make fun of and tear down that which it doesn’t have the intellectual integrity to attempt to understand. So, just as you introduced your hagiography burning by allowing yourself to call my “bullshit”, please allow me to call yours.

    I explained to you at some length my own considerations about Hubbard’s hagiography; and explained to you that most Independent Scientologists share them. First, I told you that I was not the kind of person to allow someone’s alleged “biography” to influence my evaluation of the workability of methods suggested by that person. In fact, I told you that I caught myself beginning to do so when I first entered a church of Scientology in 1977. But, it wasn’t in the way you’ve inferred is the only way to evaluate the worth of Scientology. I saw a photo of Hubbard in his naval uniform, with some plug as to how this showed him to be credible. I nearly made an about face right then and there because to me the last cred I would credit in the field of the mind and the spirit would be someone’s stint as an officer in the US Navy. But, I decided to keep an open mind and stay focused on what he had to offer; and more importantly to test for myself whether it produced a result. Remember, I was a writer for the alternative paper at the University I had attended before all this; I had been honing my bullshit detector for some time.
    Whether Hubbard was a blood brother to Native Americans, an Eagle Scout, a teenager who in the 1920’s once used a pejorative term to refer to Chinese, was responsible for killing a sub full of people, considered homosexuality deviant in 1951, or generally went about his life with a bigger-than-life swag really never figured into the equation for me.

    So, your part A, for me, is not much more than much ado about nothing.

    As for your part B, the recitation and condemnation of the very few words you cherry picked out of the millions Hubbard wrote and spoke on the subject of Scientology, your techniques were even more disappointing. I’ll cite some of the words you chose to characterize as policy, and give each passage a touch of context.

    a. “The only way you can control people is to lie to them.”

    Tony, I have heard more than one one-hour lecture by Hubbard where takes this axiom and ruthlessly examines it toward forever freeing those listening from ever being controlled through lies.

    b. Your repeated references to and quotes on the Hubbard Policy Letter Keeping Scientology Working:

    In context, again as I explained to you, outside the culture of the church that policy letter, Keeping Scientology Working, means ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” That was the meaning my wife summed up as gleaning from it. As you know she had never set foot in any “church” of Scientology, and therefore was uninfluenced by the culture of Miscavige that interprets virtually everything for people, when I asked her to read it. But, apparently her view doesn’t count, not when it might slow down a witch burning of L Ron Hubbard.

    c. “There’s only one remedy for crime — get rid of the psychs! They are causing it!”

    Is Shakespeare condemned for having prescribed a disappearing of all lawyers to remedy the world’s ills? Is Michael Moore condemned for cheerleading for the abolition of all Capitalists to create peace on earth? Certainly not in your publication. Further, it really doesn’t sound much different from the attitude you’ve espoused about Scientology in your article on Hubbard. Glass houses?

    d. “A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable.”

    Tony, while you know damn well that I – and all Independents I know - take exception to any attitude or conduct even reflecting adherence to the above sentence, let’s add a broader type of context. Apparently the mental health field is sixty years later coming round to Hubbard’s way of thinking. I am reading a book (The Sociopath Next Door) by a prominent practitioner in the specialty of repairing the victims of sociopaths. Her description of the sociopath reads like a modern day rewrite of Hubbard’s descriptions of what he then called the covertly hostile person, and later called the suppressive person. The psychiatrist announces that modern psychiatry cannot cure the sociopath, and muses for 3 pages beating around the bush about what then to do about them – the subtext is clear, she wishes it were 1951 and it was politically correct to say “quarantine them”, but alas, it is 2011 and she winds up babbling into apathy over the problem.

    e. “MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.”

    A Finance Office policy. I think if your job is Finance and you do things that do not add up to making more money and getting others to do the same, you are not long for finance (whether you are in the Finance Office of the Catholic Church, the United Way, or General Motors). To infer this policy applies broadly to Scientologists is just a plain cheap shot.

    To place L Ron Hubbard above David Miscavige in your rankings of those doing the most to “cripple Scientology” does everyone a disservice in my opinion. L Ron Hubbard died twenty-five years ago. He wrote what he wrote. He has no further say in what people do with what he wrote. Following your logic, the solution would lie along the lines a good old-fashioned book burning. Further, you are naïve to assume there are more active Corporate Scientologists (whom Miscavige demands read Hubbard the way you have chosen to) than there are Independent Scientologists (who don’t miss the forest for the trees and choose to apply what Hubbard wrote in a sensible, lawful, respectful manner befitting the age in which they live). Your final article tells the latter that they are no different than the former – that all are condemned to read and apply Hubbard as you and David Miscavige have chosen to. Worse, you aid and abet a dangerous sociopath by providing him with the ultimate defense – Hubbard made him do it.

    I respectfully disagree.

    While Independent Scientologists might be inclined to howl, I can guarantee you one thing. They won’t investigate you, they won’t threaten you, they won’t attempt to intimidate you, they won’t threaten to sue you, they won’t sue you, and they won’t do much of anything to make you even slightly uncomfortable.

    I’ve got news for your Tony. Those facts right there about how Independent Scientologist will conduct themselves towards you is living proof that your article was dead wrong.

    Peace my brother.
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Almost, but there is a slight glimmer of light at the end......
    • Like Like x 1
  28. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 1
  29. Anonymous Member

    Someone should write an open letter to Marty..
  30. A number of people have, including Gerry Armstrong.
    • Like Like x 2
  31. grebe Member

    lol

    lol

    O Rly?

    Unlike Hubbard, most psychs know that their crystal balls are cloudy and uncertain.
    • Like Like x 4
  32. Anonymous Member

    fify
  33. 3rdMan Member

    In addition, Hubbard published almost everything taught in Scientology. He also sold almost all that he published to his followers. So when people left, they had all those materials as proof and evidence of Scientology's teachings to cross-reference with their testimony. Don't get me started on how much of Scientology's entire documented belief system has been scanned, converted, and leaked terabyte by terabyte.
    • Like Like x 5
  34. Chipshotz Member

    Marty has a good case of "Confirmation bias". He only see's information that confirms his beliefs.
    Also from Wikipedia:
    • Like Like x 9
  35. BlooAnon Member

    • Like Like x 1
  36. Anonymous Member

    the thing all the indies don't get is "IF RON LIED ABOUT THIS, WHAT ELSE DID HE LIE ABOUT?"
  37. Miranda Member

    What didn't he lie about?
    • Like Like x 2
  38. My gosh, TO knows damn well that Marty - Scientology's head of harassment a few years ago - would take exception to anything that even reflected harassment.

    What an
    enormous
    great
    steaming
    pile of bullshit!

    steaming-pile-of-shit.jpg

    inb4"people can change" - if he's changed, let's see a confession. I think the OG (and Scientologists) who were personally harassed by him are due at least that much.
    • Like Like x 3


  39. An open letter to Marty Rathbun concerning HIS Independent Scientology Movement:

    Dear Marty,

    STFU!

    K-Thx
    • Like Like x 2
  40. Anonymous Member

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