US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Thanks for your explanation, my conclusion was not completely correct. Now I understand much more clearly how CoS abuses this system.

/ off to start digging around in <Unclesam> - Google Search for "scientology I-360"

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

You're welcome. I knew there was something up when it talked about scenarios about whether or not someone could file concurrently an R-1 visa extension while their I-360 application was pending (pending for a looooong time).

On this website ---> USCIS Home Page www.uscis.gov
you can click on "Immigration Forms" (see at top)
and can check out what every single immigration form is. Reading the form (or the instructions) will often give you a better idea about what these articles are talking about.

I look forward to your "finds" re Scientology and I-360.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

As Francie replied earlier, probably not. But there are assorted US government statistics, in downloadable Excel files :

Nonimmigrant Admissions by Class of Admission: Fiscal Years 1998 to 2007 (XLS, 41 KB) :

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2007/table25d.xls

...
Nonimmigrant Admissions (I-94 Only) by Class of Admission and Country of Citzenship: Fiscal Year 2007 (XLS, 165 KB) :

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2007/nimsuptable1d.xls

...
Nonimmigrant Admissions (I-94 Only) by Class of Admission and State of Destination: Fiscal Year 2007 (XLS, 57 KB) :

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2007/nimsuptable3d.xls

...
More Excel files available here :

DHS | Yearbook of Immigration Statistics: 2007

...
Nonimmigrant Admissions to the United States: 2007 (PDF, 10 pages - 297 KB)
This report examines the number and characteristics of nonimmigrant admissions in fiscal year 2007 :

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/ois_ni_fr_2007.pdf

...
Lots of links in here :

DHS | Yearbook of Immigration Statistics

...
Including :

The Yearbook is a compendium of tables that provides data on foreign nationals who, during fiscal year 2007, were granted lawful permanent residence, were admitted into the United States on a temporary basis, applied for asylum or refugee status, or were naturalized. The Yearbook also presents data on immigration law enforcement actions.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/yearbook/2007/ois_2007_yearbook.pdf

=================================

Of course, if any Anons happened to live near a US Department of Homeland Security center, it wouldn't hurt to go to the building and politely ask for copies of all of the Immigration records for the Church of Scientology. And I suspect at least one Anon works in Homeland Security.

/OSA panicking right about now

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Thanks I found an old, obscure legal doc I have been trying to find for quite some time. This particular document is referenced frequently in my searches, but its the first time I have seen the actual document. This document does not seem to be currently relevant, but it details early attempts by Scientology to get foreign Sea Org members into the US using L-1 Visas.

The old L-1 visas were used for "nonimmigrant intra-company transferee classification as a manager or executive".

Matter of Church of Scientology International, 19 I&N Dec. 593

http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol19/3052.pdf

A tiny portion of this old document:

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

re: L-1

With the CofS having to prove right of control of assets (not just control of actions via "orders") I can see why CofS would drop using the L-1. CofS uses separate corporations for everything and claims each is separate, unique, distinct, and there are no command channels between them. They would be hard-pressed to provide evidence such as (from uscis.gov) "Evidence of the qualifying relationship between the U.S. and the foreign employer which address ownership and control, such as an annual report, copies of articles of incorporation, financial statements, or stock certificates".

CofS uses LICENSES to document control of one corporation over another. They do not have any ownership papers between them.

Also, L-1 visas don't lead to an IMMIGRANT pathway. It is purely a temporary business transfer.

R-1 (religious worker visa) has far more flexibility for CofS.

L-1 is mentioned on this website ---> L-1 Visa - Apply Online: Fast, Easy, Economical

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Again, thanks for making that easy to understand. CofS stopped trying to use L-1 visas long ago, now I see why.

They have also tried to use "Alien of Extraordinary Ability" (O-1 visa) with some limited success:

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-...ember-visa-alien-extraordinary-ability-26262/

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/7-ge...d-alien-exceptional-ability-25739/#post503420

I doubt CofS will have further success trying to use O-1 visa, especially with the currect crackdown on visa fraud. Wikipedia info:

O-1 visa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Meanwhile, still doing more searching; found out that almost a year ago, Sea Horse over on OCMB picked apart Glen Stilo's letter, section by section:

Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - From Enturbulation forum: Sea Org, pay and the IRS

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Damn! I'm good! I just read the new doc and the conclusions I wrote above were the same as the Appeals Commissioner's decision.

After reading the newly found document, it appears that CofS counsel was attempting to bully the appeals Commissioner into changing the rules on the grounds that the rules discriminated unfairly against religious organizations.

The Commissioner countered with the statement that L-1 visas were not created for religious organizations, but for businesses, and went into great detail and length how Scientology's relationships between corporations is a franchiser/franchisee/licensor/licensee relationship, not an ownership and control set up.

Hubbard wrote in many contradictions in his "scriptures". One has to "wrap one's mind around" some of these contradictions and come up with a method of remaining sane in the presence of these contradictions. This mental exercise apparently makes the Scientologist capable of super human mental gymnastics that allow them to argue contradictions, such as the Scientology Counsel in the document.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Oh yeah, lookie there! I remember that post - vaguely. I see it mentions the I-360 and makes it clear Scientology's intention to bring in people on R-1 visas, then "if they work out for us" they want to apply for the worker to immigrate (I-360).

Too bad it takes 2 years to get an I-360 approved. I know someone who wants to petition USCIS for their family member to immigrate. They were told it would be 5 to 7 years to get an approval (or denial).

Who wants to wait that long? (re ordinary people)

But CofS cares about 2 years when someone has dedicated their life (and a billion years) to them?

(Sorry, that sarcastic Sea Horse posting on OCMB put me in a right royal mood. <snort snort>)

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

As an aside to this topic, and of interest to Anons everywhere:

In that document ---> http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol19/3052.pdf

is found:

So that means that as the Church of Scientology goes nutty as it's breaking up, some of the "licensed" orgs can just take control of themselves and declare themselves separate and distinct from the Mother Church?

I can hear it now: "Go to hell, Mr. Miscavige! We're not following you any more!"

This deserves a thread of its own.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Francie, I'm impressed with your knowledge and conclusions.

I was suprised to find out that OSA Int has (had?) an Immigration Officer

http://www.unchain.gr/usconsu1.gif
http://www.unchain.gr/usconsu2.gif
http://www.unchain.gr/usconsu3.gif

Also, it seems there is a Scientology Policy Letter which deals with Immigration and Customs (see the first link for short reference):

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

This section of the final, new regulations may be causing CofS to squirm:

FR Doc E8-28225

Compare the above new requirements with these typical examples below of what CofS has stated previously to USCIS:

deleted prevent

Print Untitled (5 pages)

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Just so you know, this "example" was merely to express the math involved and was not a true statement. Here's the whole policy.

Image here: http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7331/proareacontrolhj6.jpg

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

I think some of the parts making CofS squirm are:

a) on-site visits to prove they are a bonafide religious organization (USCIS may accidentally discover foreign aliens with R-1 visas doing manual labor nonreligious jobs)

b) requiring additional evidentiary and reporting requirements for the petitioning employers (CofS) and prospective religious workers (Sea Org recruits). (see below excerpt).

Scientology jerks personnel from one organization or post to another on a whim and so their personnel records are extremely deficient when compared to other corporate Human Resource Dept personnel records. Their ability to compile the below information would be an enormous task for them. (Awwww... too bad!)

Bold highlight indicates those areas where CofS will have difficulty complying, or information they will not want known. Underline highlight indicates the part CofS will definitely not want known, because it will lead to potential discovery of some of their shenanigans. What do the wise recommend? Don't tell lies because you thereafter have to keep them straight when telling again?

USCIS regs say the alien must remain employed by the petitioning employer or their visa can be revoked. CofS jerks people from one corporation to another. It's already determined that diff orgs are franchises and not controlled by Scientology Mother Church. So if FSO in Florida (for example) employs Alien X, then they cannot be transfered to AOLA in California without potentially (if found out) losing their visa.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

forgive my ignorance,
but I still fail to see how this can apply to anyone but Lord Xenu himself.
The quality of Aliens (thetans) we've seen from CofS so far has been pathetic.

Are they really trying to get HIM legal entry to USA?
Or are there Aliens of even more extraordinary ability that the USCIS has been able to keep out so far?

Maybe we do need [strike]Woll Smoth[/strike] Agent J after all

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

francie - you rock!!!

seems to me the last item above (that i added bold highlight too) would also be a concern and not just from a "front groups" standpoint, but from a oh shi- hide da RPF perspective.

How they gonna justify staff demoted to RPF building furniture, scrubbing floors, and other manual labor?

How they gonna justify that other major religious organization hire janitors, contractors, landscapers, etc. to maintain their properties & whatnot as a normal employee (non-religious worker)?

seems to me that in addition to all added hassles & expense this new policy causes, the cult is either gonna have to bounce all the immigrant workers out of RPF and into a vocational position, or send them home to native country to do RPF. either way is good - less victimization and more opportunity for unhappy clams to escape, all as an added bonus to higher level of scrutiny.

Well if they didnt waste so much resources & energy on their overly micro-managed weekly stats, they wouldnt have this problem

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

AnonLover:

Manual labor jobs don't qualify for religious visas because such unskilled labor can be obtained relatively cheaply in any country, and doesn't need to be imported.

CofS doesn't want on-site visits because they may be caught in their lie about secular employment (in which posts they employ the aliens).

Though the RPF is run like a separate organization, and in a separate location from other orgs, it is not incorporated. RPFers are still paid by their original org (though at 1/4 or 1/8th pay level) - so they are still on the roster of staff for an organization (even if they are no longer present). Their job description has changed, though. Though we know that RPFers do manual labor work, they also audit each other. It's possible that CofS labels them as "auditors", and hence fall under their wacky description of a minister.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

From the document, info required of Scientology when making application for yet another rube:

So what if FSO reports these figures:

(iv) 500 current staff
(v) 500 applicants working (or worked) at FSO within the last 5 years
(vi) 1,500 applications in the last 5 years

Wouldn't that look awfully fishy? (We know the missing people were RPFed or transfered to another (non-FSO) org or blew.)

When was FSO going to report this to USCIS?

From the document:

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Another problem for CofS:

CofS has been getting name changes for some Sea Org staff. Perhaps they are changing the names of the foreign ones to hide them from ICE raids (immigration raids).

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Scientology's ring leaders will simply demand that their pretend "reverends" are some how ministers and not criminals, ergo the laws don't apply to them.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Francie, you obviously know more about this stuff than me. I am totally impressed with your insights and clarifications.

Just wanted to reiterate, with the new rulings in FR Doc E8-28225 CofS may now be required to clarify exactly how foreign Sea Org staff are compensated, and also provide verifiable evidence of compensation for each individual. This ruling is for new R-1 applicants, and also for extension requests for existing R-1 holders.

For reference:

RPF Insider writes to Colin Powell

Compare this with section F of the new regulations:

Doesn't seem to be much wiggle room now for CofS obfuscations and justifications.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

CofS does non-salaried compensation (room and board). And claims (to USCIS) that Sea Org members have taken a vow of poverty.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

I hope USCIS somehow gets to read this.

/ off to re-read the entire new regulations again, along with CofS earlier protest letters, now that I better understand some of the nuances and ramifications.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

For background information, here is the document which led up to these Religious Worker R-1 visa changes:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/Relig_Worker_Fraud_Jul06.pdf

Initial Mandate for INS per The Immigration and (same, but in HTML)

A tiny section of this report:

It is worthwhile to read the full report, which is full of facts and statistics.

CofS tried very hard (and failed) to dismiss this report.

Another excerpt from Jeanne M. Reynolds complaint (posted in full earlier), specifically attempting to dead agent (debunk) this report:

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

You all are doing great research work in this thread. Any suggestions about how to apply it?

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

I don't have an answer for that yet, still trying to digest all the information. Right now, I'm re-reading and comparing USCIS new regulations and CofS protests.

CofS seems to have lost a significant argument. Another section from Jeanne M. Reynolds protest letter (Posted in full earlier):

USCIS response, in the new regulations:

Unfortunately, there are some loopholes which CofS will undoubtedly try to exploit. Still trying to research the loopholes.


Edit:

A not-so-subtle hint from US Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS):

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Getting a hold of whatev they submit for ^^THIS

would be a great way to figure out harps and poons to answer XenuLovesU question.

any chance the infos they need to submit for some of these regs would be public record eventually?

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

If I remember correctly, the new requirements went into effect immediately. So when we finish getting through all of the changes, we can compile information from existing affadavits, court cases, official policy, official releases from the Co$, etc. Then get people send to send the information to the USCIS asking that they specifically investigate Scientology and the Sea Org. Right?

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

To help cut through some confusion, here are the relevant, final changes, from the new USCIS regulations.

This is not all the lengthy preamble, explanations, definitions, etc just the relevant part of the final regulations.

If you can't wade through the mountain of the entire document, then please read this section.

Its a small excerpt from the end of the document (here's that link again):

FR Doc E8-28225

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

whoa, dbl wot whammy there... thats gonna take awhile to digest.

right at the 2nd page break tho is a loophole, but they made it a big pita to exploit... bouncing sea org around on occaison like yoyos would get them around the 5yr limit on R-1

Good freaking thing the freewinds aint allowed to port in the USA, else they would likely start to ship 'em in & out like cattle.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Fix'd

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

They also may not want to have the inspections because they would have to give the aliens their passports to hold during the inspection. Can you imagine: inspectors show up, asks alien for their passport, and the alien asks to leave, now that he's actually in possession of his passport.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Scientology is exploiting the religious worker visa program which was only invented in 1990. (That explains why the 1980s appeals dox are often other visa types.)

Then Jeanne squalks and insists that the USCIS cannot tighten the regulations on religious workers because it's intruding on the separate of church of state. Uh... they created a visa specifically to HELP religious workers, it's new so they then found fraud (abuses of the system), so they attempt to rectify it... and CofS squalks "discrimination!"

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

CofS person Jeanne M. Reynolds sure squalks a lot. The report need not prove everything she is enquiring about. That doesn't make the report deficient. That doesn't mean the methodology of the investigators was flawed. That doesn't mean the training and education of the investigators in immigration law was lacking.

She wants more insider information and unless she works for USCIS and ON THAT PROJECT, she's not likely to ever get her questions answered.

The questioning is probably intended to intimidate and "introvert" and make the reporters feel insecure.

Jeanne writes:

It's clear that shows the intent and use the Sea Org has for their foreign religious workers --- manual labor work as part of their "religion".

It's clear that CofS wants to include "all religious workers" in the R-1 classification and that means anyone that has any work to do to support the religion. Well, a "church" doesn't need to recruit a fulltime plumber when it can go hire one for repairs. A "church" doesn't need to recruit and import housekeepers when it can go hire one ANYWHERE.

The difference with CofS is that they pay their workers no more than $50/week and they can't hire anyone in the USA for that price. So they do what all the rich ladies used to do when they needed someone cheap to keep their houses clean... they import foreign cheap labor and exploit them. And such exploitation was made illegal long ago.

CofS is just trying to hide their human exploitation crimes under the "religious vocation" umbrella.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

OTBT: Any chance you can find the appeals decision document mentioned by Jeanne Reynolds?

Jeanne writes:

I'm sure Jeanne is twisting the words in the decision. But without a copy of the decision, I can't analyse it.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Interesting. I'll look into it, but my earlier search on CofS I-360s didn't turn up a whole lot. Hopefully these appeals decisions were posted by USCIS somewhere on the net under Freedom of Information act.

Oh, for info, Jeanne Reynolds letter of complaint was issued from the office of Moxon & Kobrin, per the document properties.

Edit: Thanks for that link
http://rsc.hensarling.house.gov/UploadedFiles/lb_041508_suspensions.pdf

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Here you go, decisions by the Appeals Office that have been publicly released.

Some of the links in the post are already 404.

Scilons importing less foreign slave labor? - Scientology Exposed

Edit: Here is an unsorted search list of the same docs. Similar searches can be done with "scientology visa" "dianetics visa" etc.

site:www.uscis.gov sea org visa - Google Search

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

A tip: When the link shows that a file is missing (no longer there). Grab the original file name and do a google search on just that. I found several that way.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

A one paragraph summary by Department of Homeland Security

http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspubl...375ada&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf (original PDF)

No real need to download the whole document, but that one paragraph clearly sums up the US Government rationale and aims of the new R-1 visa regulations.

...
Here is the 1999 GAO report that Jeanne Reynolds refers to in her protest letter, and is mentioned in the new R-1 regulations. This is the document that pointed out Religious Worker Visa fraud, and put into motion the efforts to clean up and revise the visa system :

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO/NSIAD-99-67

...
more dox:

June 2000, Observations on the Issuance of Visas for Religious Workers
Testimony Before the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims, Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives

http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO/T-NSIAD-00-207

...
June 2000, Testimony Before the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims, Committee on the Judiciary, House of Representatives (full hearings, in addition to above link)

Religious Worker Visa Programs


Why post these old documents here? To show that the US Government has been concerned for almost a decade about substantial fraud and abuse of the Religious Worker Visa program. These new regulation are not haphazard or ill conceived, but fairly well thought out after careful consideration by a number of US Government agencies and Congressional hearings.

Scientology can scream bloody murder about religious harassment, to no avail. The US Government is NOT required to even have a Religious Worker Visa program. Its a new program created in 1990, as pointed out earlier by Francie.

It looks like Scientology might need to find another way to import foreign Sea Org members. And existing foreign Sea Org members may now be denied extensions to stay in the US. Hopefully, the days of Scientology Religious Worker Visa Fraud will be coming to a close.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Excellent reading. Seems the Gov. was on the ball regarding the rampant fraud in the R-1 program...now, does this mean the COS will be closing their orgs in 3rd world countries from which they recruited their slaves? THAT will be a huge win...that and forcing them to pay actual wages for the construction, house, and yard work they have previously used the slaves for...will take more money out of the system. Guess they'll have to hit up Bart Simpson, TC, and JT for more money.

Re: US Government enacts revised regulations to reduce Religious Worker Visa fraud

Oooh, looky here:

Visa research re Scientology

Someone is hosting a brand new web page, with links to all sorts of Scientology visa documents. A few of the documents (USCIS appeals decisions) have already disappeared off the net (404). The remaining dox have been saved and are being privately hosted, out of the reach of OSA and Scientology to make more dox disappear.

The web page is a collection of factual documents relating to Scientology visa fraud. Anyone, including US Government agencies, can use this web page for research and reference.

Some of these documents were very hard to track down. The protest letters from OSA to US Government are included as well, one of them on Church of Scientology International letterhead.

There is a "contact us" button at the bottom of the web page, where readers can add additional documents to the list. If anyone, including lurkers, want to submit docs anonymously, just use a disposable e-mail address and use the "contact us" link.

The web page is not finished, and more dox are expected to be added.

Scilon firm policy is no Org is ever supposed to close.

The new R-1 visa regulations are a nightmare for CofS Int. Their legal team / Hi Moxon / are surely trying to work out some kind of way to continue bringing in foreign Sea Org slave labor, but the new regulations will no longer permit business-as-usual for Scientology Inc.