UK: Setting goals

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by rasputin, Feb 11, 2008.

  1. rasputin Member

    UK: Setting goals

    (I would recommend a similar thread to this for other countries - organising on this basis may be helpful in doing things on a nation-wide scale, tho more local and/or international are also useful f course)

    A video released a while ago by an ex-Scientologist, giving advice to Anonymous, made a major focus of setting goals. Having some specific targets to go for helps us keep focus and momentum and something more achievable than shouting at the Church to collapse on itself.

    As such, I think we should start setting goals.

    One such goal would be the Church's VAT exemption[/url:gpk2js47] - while not judged a charity for some purposes they are for VAT. (I believe this is still the case anyway, if anyone has more up to date info please post it.)

    Another would be finding out how and where they get people for Narconon and Criminon and trying to cut off those sources of new recruits. This must be done with sensitivity, however - if for example Narconon is the only drugs rehab centre in an area it is not enough to call for it to be closed down unless we also call for a replacement.

    Please add to this as you see fit.
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  2. anonymous8698 Member

    afaik they are currently enjoying a reciprocal tax arrangement with australia.

    they are not british. they are not a charity. they are not a religion.
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  3. sw Member

    I think the goal should be the removal of their VAT status for now, and raising public awareness.
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  4. musketeerwang Member

    One thing we should ALL do (IMO obviously) is contact our MPs:

    It's easy, quick, and we might just get a handful of MPs on our side. Mention UK specifics whereever known, make it relevant to the community.
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  5. anon308 Member

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  6. rasputin Member

    this[/url:pxg0aruy] article from the Times lists a number of schools infected with Narconon:

    The thing I'm not sure about here is how much this is regular arrangements and how much it's Narconon going into one school, doing their thing, then leaving - so the first anyone who doesn't already know the score knows about it is after the event. while we can and should stop them coming back there's a little of the locking the door after the horse has bolted about it.

    are their materials actually used in the curriculum anywhere or are they purely called in to give The Drugs Talk when schools need a drug consultant?

    in spite of those reservations here's some of the places listed in the Times. if anyone has a better list, or lives in one of the areas affected, please post here.

    The reason I posted this in this thread is because IMO this is our number two goal (number one being VAT status): kick Narconon out of schools.
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  7. anon308 Member

    The Narcanon programme in schools is purely a drug awareness campaign "say no to drugs, say yes to life". It may seem harmless but they tell the kids that drugs stay in your fatty tissue indefinitely, this is clearly a lie. They also claim that the only way to get rid of these is to go on one of their programs :lrhmoney:

    Criminon claim to be operating out of some prisons, they have a list here:

    The way they target vulnerable people really is sickening.
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  8. JV Member

    So these Schools didn't even bother to research the background of people they were giving access to kids? What complete and utter fuckwits.
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  9. an0n348 Member

    Their tax exemption status is being looked at. Agree on the schools and prisons and both are good for leaflets, writing, calling, etc.
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  10. I suppose some schools are just happy to be getting some free help and don't bother to look too far into it. Also, it's most likely they lied and had all kinds of impressive looking documents which seemed legit when not looked at too closely.
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  11. What about getting the parents up in arms??

    A carefully worded and well researched flyer/handout to inform parents about the front orgs of the CO$ is a good approach. The guy on the street will just say (without ed tech) "what's the harm in trying to keep kids off drugs??"

    So slap some ANON ed tech on the parents and let's see how long that shit continues in the schools. I know here in the U.S. all we need is a Muslim or a Jew to get wind of a bible handout to bring everything to an immediate halt, I would hate to think what would happen if the parents found out about a CO$ secret operation in the school...In the U.S. even one angry parent can shut things down.
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  12. The goals were set out in the video. As far as I am concerned anything that acts towards those ends is fine with me. From removing charitable status to ensuring everyone know their fronts. If people get into teams or groups defined by the particular goals they're working towards it will make them far easier to target. Groupthink is dangerous. Stick to the main aims and do it in your own way. If narcanon is the only drugs rehabilitation service in an area it still needs to go. Narcanon is not better than nothing as you suggest.

    I'd have thought you would know that Purification Rundowns are dangerous, unscientific, nonsense. Lurk moar.
  13. rasputin Member

    I am not suggesting that Narconon is better than nothing (it is clearly much, much worse), only that we should take into account local circumstances. if an area is reliant on Narconon and has a genuine need for drug counselling/education our action should take this into account. I realise I put this badly earlier, however - mea culpa.

    I'm not sure where you got the breaking into separate teams bit as I never proposed it...

    I see the ultimate goal as the destruction of the Church of Scientology in its current form. breaking that down into specific targets to go after helps that process by giving us specifics to act on.
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  14. OK, fair enough. But I don't think we should take into account local circumstances with something like Narcanon. All the evidence is anecdotal and what evidence there is points to things like large niacin injections which could screw the livers of about 1% of people that attend. So I wouldn't worry in the slightest about getting rid of Narcanon somewhere where there were no drugs services. If anything getting rid of something that pretends to work often creates more pressure on authorities to replace it with something which does. While drug addiction services are often shamefully underfunded I'm pretty sure that what Narcanon does is dangerous.

    The Purification Rundown involves long, long saunas, and unhealthy injection of niacin and other vitamins. Both of which could damage livers and general health in those with existing problems, or a genetic propensity towards liver damage (something like Gilbert's or Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency). Such conditions are far more common than people think. I suspect the only reason people haven't made a fuss is that they've been ill and associated it with 'purification' rather than L Ron Hubbard's lack of medical training or reading of medical journals.

    Maybe that's something to do. I may create some fliers explaining how dangerous and untested Purification Rundowns and Narcanon is.
  15. rasputin Member

    basically my concern is discussions like this:

    Anon: Shut down Narconon!
    J Public: Okay, what about my son/daughter/father/mother/etc. who's hooked on heroin?
    Anon: ...

    combining opposition to Narconon with calls for a drug rehab program that actually works (rather than putting lives at risk) is, as you say, natural; it can't hurt to make that explicit, and helps make it clear we've thought through the consequences of what we're doing.

    I really like your flier idea. I think one point we need to hammer home is that Narconon isn't just bad because of its acting as a gateway drug to the CoS, but because it's fucked in and of itself and has no basis in anything resembling medicine - which seems to be the angle you're going for. :)
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  16. L Ron Habbo Member

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  17. Except, in accordance with the policy of Scientology, the help wasn't free. They charged for it.

    I am working on a flier for this as we speak.
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  18. Win. And +10 internets to you. Sounds like your teachers are rational people.
  19. musketeerwang Member

    OK, I just did some googling to see what local Narconon involvement I could find and email people about, and nearly all results for my county + narconon were from this site:

    Which just screamed Co$ production design to me.

    Sure enough a search on the Whois registrant name of "Virtual Workforce Company" yielded this:

    Whois gives a private address in West Sussex, ooh, about 12 miles away from the East Grinstead Co$ HQ.

    So, needless to say, this entire "local community information site" is nothing more than a way of legitimising and marketing Narconon. I can't find any site noting this - has anyone come across this front before?
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  20. Nikanon Member

    I've never seen this site before? Normally they have mention of Hubbard if they're CoS related? :s
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  21. One thing to do is to go through CoS (and CoS front) promotional material for breaches of the Trading Standards Act and breaches of the Advertising Standards Agency regulations. There are numerous laws affecting medical claims. So if you see anything explicitly saying they cure any illness (mental illness included) in anything that amounts to promotional material pop photocopies in envelopes with short cover letters saying where you got it and that you think the material may be breach of guidlines so you'd like them to check. Then send it to the Advertising Standards Agency and your local Trading Standards. All it takes is one local org making claims they're not supposed to and we have a nice victory.
  22. anon308 Member

    Good thinking: ... -false.htm

    It's happened before, I'm sure there's lots of unverified claims in their literature.





    source: ... e.htm#fats


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  23. musketeerwang Member

    It could be a less formal association - Scientologist buddies doing favours for each other. But there's definitely a connection (absence of Hubbard and Scn references notwithstanding) - the same web design company? That close to the original UK Scn centre? Narconon entries for virtually every county?
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  24. Ash Member

    In the Brum thread we're currently putting together school and religion-specific letters/leaflets to send out to local places. I can post them here once they're done. We need to send letters or emails to EVERY school and place of worship across the UK. I know this may seem a lot like hard work but it's necessary if we're to stop this corporation infecting our youngest generation.

    As for their tax exempt status, I suggest that you write to your local MP and see what you'd have to put into a petition to make sure it would be officially submitted, then take petitions along to the next protest. If the public reaction on Sunday was anything to go by we should have thousands of signatures, and with luck that will help to push the government to holding a new enquiry.
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  25. shedrat Member

    Michael Gove, MP Surrey Heath

    I think it should be part of our strategy to get a question asked in Parliament about Co$ in Schools - Michael Gove MP for Surrey Heath has spoken out about them in the past.

    If enough people write to him, maybe he would ask a question? We would need people in Surrey Heath to write to him as constituents. He has parliamentary privilege and can say what he likes (and it gets reported).
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  26. Nikanon Member

    Hm. I can't seem to work the site properly I think, the search is a bit rubbish too :/

    And about writing to the schools, brilliant idea, however there are thousands of schools! XD If we have lists for different regions/areas and just list the schools as they're contacted? Or list all of them and edit the school name's colour so we know when they've been contacted? Seems like a big thing to do though, and lots of people are going to have to be involved to pull it off. We need Anon's in every district (which I reckon we have tbh).

    I wouldn't mind knowing if any others come from my area, but I personally don't want to be announcing that publically so I wouldn't expect others too either =]
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  27. musketeerwang Member

    It's not unachievable - I suggest we write formal emails, or even better, letters, to headteachers of schools in our respective areas, simply warning them of Narconon and its direct link with Scientology, and bullet-pointed dangers of both.

    That way, if they have used them, they hopefully will think twice, and if they haven't, they might just be careful about who they get to run their drugs courses.
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  28. I think a better idea is to get parents to write to schools. They would carry a lot more weight than us (not withstanding those of us who are parents).
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  29. Re: UK: Setting goals

    Unless I'm misunderstanding their website, they only have one residential drug rehabilitation centre in St. Leonards on Sea. Do they have other day centres?

    Did someone mention Trading Standards? Are they allowed to claim this: "Narconon ™ The World’s Most Successful Drug Rehab." Has this been proven? Have all other rehabilitation services been compared and Narconon come out on top?
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  30. Re: UK: Setting goals

    This is a good point and needs to be explored further. I very much doubt they have the data to support such claims and I doubt they could provide it without some very weasely statistics. Like it's the most successful involving saunas and massive vitamin injection shots or something.
  31. The Office of Fair Trading has a telephone number, I'm thinking of giving them a call. The only thing I'm wondering about is whether it's legal to make ridiculous claims like that on a website? It's not exactly an advert, and I don't have a hard copy of it (leaflet, poster etc) so I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time.
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  32. It could be a waste of time, it might not be. As long as it's hosted in the UK aimed promotionally at an audience in the UK it's probably covered. Worth checking even if it comes to nothing. Maybe in the next few weeks we should look to see if we can get any advice of lawfags, solicitors and the like who are sympathetic. In the meantime keep any promotional material we can get our hands on that makes claims that are dodgy. Be careful with the context if any of us put it online. Make sure it's covered under fair use for criticism etc. :).
  33. anon308 Member

    "The World’s Most Successful Drug Rehab."

    Did elron do the research and then just forget to publish it?
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  34. LeJean Member

    Unfortunatly the code is voluntary, and as a registered charity ( Narconon UK 267386, Narconon London 1098004 and Narconon Trust 1112230 the first two have overdue accounts) would not as far as I know be subscribed to it, so you would need to make a complaint in law and not through the ASA which is a PITA.


    So we would need to find a paid advert, or written promotional media. Unless we could show that they broke the law, which in this case would probably be the Medicines act 1968 and amendants to it in 1992. As it would probably count as supplementary/complmentary treatmeant we unfortunatly have a sad dearth of legislation in the region.
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  35. dani_anon Member

    Trading Standards/FSA

    Hi All,

    I am new to this forum and was amazed by what everyone has been doing - especially the protests in Brum, where I got sucked into the cult for about 8 months in 1999- I will go into that in detail in another thread.

    When I was at the Birmingham Org, they tried to get me to agree to a loan to a course :evil: , which I wouldn't do even though they badgered me for about 2 hours.

    Now, I am an active poster on consumer sites which deal with loans/CC's etc (don't want to reveal which sites though as I don't wish them to be a target) and for any organisation to promote/offer loans they require a licence from the FSA (Financial Services Authority) - does anyone know if they have a consumer credit licence in the UK?

    If they do, then an official complaint may be put into the FSA and FOS (Financial Ombudsman Service), for coersive tactics in selling a loan.

    If they don't then a complaint can be put into the FSA, for not having a consumer credit licence and soliciting loans.

    Both of the above are covered under the consumer credit act 1974 and 2006, which can easily be found in google. I am unsure whether both of the above completely applies, so don't take it as red.

    As to the trading standards issue, the Co$ can only be reported for selling defect/faulty/false descriptions of goods/services, when that person has actually bought the goods/services.

    Can someone clarify any of what I have said as I am unsure myself in this situation, if it was a bank I would know precisely what I was talking about?

    BTW, don't take any of the actions above until it has been clarified - I will ask about on the other forums I am on.

    Also, if and/or I get it checked, you can only contact them directly via phone if you are willing to give out personal details - if you want to stay anonymous only contact them via email/snailmail. Also the FOS's first action on a complaint is to send out a letter to the organisation, with your personal details.

    I am hopefully going to be down in Brum on 15th March :) I wasn't there on 10th.

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  36. LeJean Member

    Dani, I can't do much while the register on the FSA site is down, it will be probably be back up during business hours, but do you know which particular organisation offered you the loan?

    And do you have/is there any obtainable evidence that they offer loans?
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  37. dani_anon Member

    The Loan was from a 3rd party via the Birmingham ORG under the guise of a 'sponsorship', they offered me paperwork to sign as they acted as a mediator - thank god I resisted.

    Mines outside the statute of limitations (6 years)anyway, I was just making everyone aware of this practice. I cannot say for definite this still occurs.

    I don't, personally - was far too long ago, but more recent ex-scienos may have these so-called 'sponsorships'.

    I did notice on some of the ex-member accounts on and other sites, that the Co$ aggresively chases these 'personal loans' through the courts and wondered if it is the same thing here in the UK
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  38. fluffbomb Member

    Has anyone approached, or considering approaching, the British Psychological Society?

    Or even MIND (National association for mental health)

    I am considering emailing them, adding a link to DM's famed "planned attack" on modern Psychiatry and asking for their opinion.

    It's clear that a professional body or organization probably wouldn't like to comment officially on Scientology, but I do wonder if they have even seen it, and if it might encourage a discussion between them and other professional associates (lobbying, government, national health and so on).

    At the very least the footage would probably go viral through their ranks wouldn't it?

    What do you all think?
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