L. Ron Hubbard: ''Scientology has opened the gates to a better world. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion.'' (Please note the Period at the end of this direct LRH quote. Thanks for clearing this issue up, Ron.) L. Ron Hubbard's quote that his Modern 'Science' of Mental Health was not a Religion was most certainly Not taken out of context. L. Ron Hubbard's quote that Scientology is Not a Religion was taken out of Content, not context.
So if they are none of those things which I agree with what are they (besides a cult) ? Using Hubbard logic what are they?
They've broken for lunch after Gerry revealed Omar Garrison's nickname for Hubbard was Johnny Goodbugger based on some documents in his youth about buggery. I'll never see Battlefield Earth in the same light again… if I ever do. Also, Gerry used money from the unlimited "Nobel prize for Narconon" budget he was given to buy a car LOL.
This quote is informative: "Dianetics sold 150,000 copies in 1950, probably reaching something like 370,000 people" juxtaposed against the admission (by Marty or Mike, I forget which) that there has never been more than 100,000 Scientologists at any one time. Atack says he traced 120 different ideas Hubbard plagiarized for Scientology, and 60 of them come from this “Magick: The Master Therion” by Aleister Crowley — which Hubbard actually recommended that his followers read (but they never do). At one point I read "The book of the law" thinking that was the one Hubbard was referring to. What a fucking waste of a good afternoon reading that was.
Hana Whitfield now on stage telling her story, noticed Hubbard going in an out of a "reverie" while lecturing. Comments on the live blog have reached 1000 already and my browser crashed trying to cope with it LOL
2:39 pm "Hey, troopers, your proprietor needs a break before the evening activities begin. We have an interview with Steve Cannane and then our book appearance in town, and we don’t want to be drained." I guess now we wait for video.
Jon Atack puts us on the spot at the Toronto Scientology conference By Tony Ortega, The Underground Bunker This morning, Paulette Cooper and your proprietor will be on the hot seat at the Scientology conference in Toronto. Jon Atack has asked us to speak about Paulette’s legendary harassment by the Church of Scientology as a way to discuss the Guardian’s Office and the Office of Special Affairs — the spy wings of the only church that we know of that has a spy wing. In advance of our talk, Atack sent us out a questionnaire. We did our best to provide some cogent answers. Continued here: http://tonyortega.org/2015/06/23/jo...e-spot-at-the-toronto-scientology-conference/
At the conference, commenting on Tony's blog. The meeting with OSA was discussed by Jim at the opening. On Tony's blog there was some discussion about Jim and his association with Gordon Melton. My reaction was, and is: if this is good enough for Gerry Armstrong, it's good enough for me. Secondly, if there is any interfering with the information (the concern of the commentor on Tony's blog) this conference is far from the only way to get communication out. My comment on the contents: Yow! Can't wait for the videos to trawl through it in detail.
Following Tony's conference blog and comments avidly whenever I can. It's a tremendous gathering - the biggest - of whistle blowers against scientology's crimes and abuses I can remember. Particularly good to see Nan McLean looking so well at her age, happy and amongst people who know her. Getting Clear - The Motion Picture - should be a satisfying main course after our appetites were whetted by Alex Gibney's entree.
Both James Beverley and his friend Gordon Melton are proponents of corporate Scientology's bottom line, which is that corporate Scientology is a genuine religious organization. They make that assertion while describing themselves as religious scholars, which, I guess, impresses some people. Just how religious scholars are qualified to expound on a criminal money-making, intelligence-gathering mind-control operation, I'm not sure. Probably the influence that James Beverley might have is to encourage others, who might not ordinarily do so, to tilt towards his views on corporate Scientology being a bona fide religious organization. I had visions of an event occurring in an ivy covered University setting. In stead, it's being held on a hotel. What exactly was James Beverley's purpose in this anyway? Was he really necessary? He seems to be interposed himself, using having a conference at an idealic University setting as a lure.
From an academic point of view, Scientology is a religion. Really, if you make up a religion that doesn't meet the definition of "religion", you are doing it wrong. Pastafarianism is a religion too for the same reason. However, I don't think anybody at that conference is going to be persuaded that Scientology is not a criminal profit-seeking enterprise.
Whose academic point of view? Are you speaking for everyone? I think you mean from the point of view of those in "New Religious Movement Studies," a category of academia brought into being largely by the actions of Scientology's Guardian's Office/OSA with its Scholar Program. If corporate Scientology gets a pass on its claim to being a true religious organization, while we contentedly nod our heads, happy that a "religious scholar" has become our pal, we can pat each other on the back and criticize Scientology all day long, but the joke will be on us.
Thanks for posting the schedule. Toronto Conference doesn't seem to be discussing religiousness of the cult too much. lol
What is missing in all the analysis seen here are the adherents. A good friend of mine is still in (hence my interest). She is a sincere believer in Scientology as her religion. She truly thinks scientology is a religion, since it is her religion. My thoughts on the matter (fuck scientology!, they're a scam) are meaningless to her belief that scientology is her religion.
Those in corporate Scientology have been systematically deceived and manipulated. They are told to say Scientology is their religion. And that only began in the 1980s. Before that, while putting on religious displays for government officials and media persons, the average Scientologist would tell "wogs" that Scientology was a technology and philosophy. That someone in a brainwashing cult parrots the brainwashing cult's talking points doesn't count for much.
I understand that people are told to say it is their religion, but for my friend, it IS her religion. You don't want it to be considered a religion, and I can understand and agree with that. It does not change the fact that at least one person I know considers COS to BE her religion. That is true for many others, I would suspect. It doesn't mean we have to approve of scientology, but it is impossible to ignore that many people sincerely look at COS as their religion
It does for the person. If we ignore that we ignore their humanity, and that I won't do. I've no doubt my friend is terribly mistaken, but I feel exactly the same about a Christian who thinks he's going to heaven. I think that person is being horribly deceived. I do not think his belief is insincere.
Why do you think Germany regards Scientology as an abusive business, and a Psycho-Political cult, disguised as a religion? Do you think they're ignoring people's humanity?
If the only defining characteristic of religion is that someone says they believe it's a religion, then it doesn't have falsifiability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong
But but but they have giant crosses too.At least in countries where displaying Christian symbols is considered advantageous.
It's not your decision to make. People make horrid mistakes every day. That is part of life. And yes, they might be indoctrinated into those beliefs. It doesn't chage the fact that in the moment those beliefs can be sincerely held. Did I not make myself clear? I consider COS to be a bad thing. No religion has falsifiability. That is one of the defining characteristics of a religion. No belief system can stand up to scientific scrutiny.
I don't give a shit about the belief system. This is about the definition used for classifying. If the definition isn't falsifiabile, then it's a Venn diagram with a big circle around everything, and not really a definition at all.
Perhaps you need to spent some time studying angles and other pointy things. ? Why do you think Australian Senator Nick Xenophon said that "Scientology is not a religious organization. It is a criminal organization that hides behind its so-called religious beliefs." Is he an anti-religious bigot?
The above is the short form of a Scientology "religious bigot" flier. Hopefully, posting it will be allowed.Below is the text from a standard (long form) Scientology flier which is handed out. An actual example had been provided, with the understanding that this was Scientology propaganda, but it was removed. This and similar material can easily be located on the Internet. It is disgusting, but it also is an example of something which is an application of Scientology's religious angle. An angle which was cynically utilized by L. Ron Hubbard, and is cynically utilized by his mini me, David Miscavige:"This is what a religious bigot looks like!Your neighbor ______[photo and name removed]_______is not all that he seems.He stands outside Churches insulting and degrading people for their religious beliefs.When he isn't on the streets, he's in front of his computer monitor spreading evil lies and hatred creating an atmosphere of intolerance which incites acts of hate and violence against peaceful members of a religion. His activities put those members and their families at risk.Next time you see this face, recognize the face of religious bigotry."*End of quote of Scientology standard flier.
A rundown on the truth being delivered at the Toronto Scientology conference | The Underground Bunker It was a real highlight for us to meet for the first time a frequent contributor to the Underground Bunker, former Sea Org worker Chris Shelton. We asked him to give us a report about his first day speaking at the Toronto conference yesterday. Here’s what he sent us. http://tonyortega.org/2015/06/24/a-...ivered-at-the-toronto-scientology-conference/ Also, there's a related thread here: I'm covering Getting Clear conference at Byline.com By Jonny Jacobsen https://whyweprotest.net/threads/im-covering-getting-clear-conference-at-byline-com.128342/
PUBLIC NOTICE: TORONTO SP CONFERENCE DECLARED AN ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ASSEMBLY OTVIIIisGrrr8!, June 24, 2015 We in RTC have declared the SP Toronto Conference, or conclave, or whatever it is you people are calling your meeting, an illegal criminal assembly. Actual investigation has determined the gathering to be awash in criminals, Suppressive Persons, bitter defrocked apostates, jokers and degraders, agents of Big Pharma, Marcabs, Helotrobes, Venutian freight locomotive operators, squirrels, communists, troublemakers, freethinkers, Trotskyite wreckers, diversionaries, saboteurs, and shadowy agents from the nebulous fringes of the internet. To prevent this contagion of aberration from spreading and infecting the body politic of the Church, Scientologists in good standing are forbidden to travel anywhere near Canada. All 5,000,000 Scientologists living in Canada are hereby ordered to immediately evacuate south to the emergency nuclear proof vaults in Trementina, New Mexico. Having no choice but to confront and shatter suppression in Toronto, the Church of Scientology has imposed an immediate economic blockade of Toronto. Regrettably, then, and due to the criminal activity of those illegally assembled in Toronto, the Church of Scientology has ceased shipments of e-meters into the region. We realize depriving Toronto of e-meters is a draconian measure that will punish all Torontonians for the crimes of a few, but we in RTC must make Toronto suffer the harsh reality of an e-meterless existence to underscore the severity of allowing SP’s to openly gather in Toronto. In an act of extreme ecclesiastical mercy, however, Fleet Admiral David Miscavige six weeks ago secretly ordered the MV Freewinds to sail up the St. Lawrence River to Lake Ontario. At 2200 hours local time on Wednesday, therefore, the MV Freewinds will be docked in Toronto right next to the Jack Layton Ferry Terminal. All SP’s wishing clemency from the wrath Fleet Admiral Miscavige and the Church are to report to the MV Freewinds and surrender themselves to OSA. Your parking will be validated. Those who surrender themselves will be routed onto the SP Toronto Conference Truth Rundown (SPTCTR) where they will write up their crimes, withholds, and overts. Furthermore, these persons must turn in all of their contacts, hard drives, and other electronic media to OSA. This is the only way to prevent spending lifetime after lifetime alone and in the dark. Source and open comments: https://otviiisgrrr8.wordpress.com/...erence-declared-an-illegal-criminal-assembly/
