Sorry I was being sarcastic to the poster who was questing you. There is no doubt in my mind that OSA is meeting and planning all kinds of activities around the event.
My critiques of various new and world religions has led to me being threatened physically, legally and, of course, verbally in print, online and to my face. In one setting, I had security guards to protect me when I was threatened at a Mount Allison University lecture for my critique of Holocaust denial.
It would be best to take ANYTHING critical of James or Jim with a grain of salt, especially if it says 'feeding information to OSA'.
understood I am sure as well. My question is how involved with OSA is James? I saw what I saw. Please also refer to Karen de la Carriere recent videos about spais and infiltrators. And read the 56 pages of comments by known posters on ESMB about Jim Beverly and his dealing with OSA.
If you are the real Jim Beverly you should come clean. I was there and saw and heard what happened. For starters, Why did OSA pay for your lunch? And what else they are paying for?
As I said above, please read the 56 pages of comments by KNOWN ESMB posters about Jim Beverly. Not every "whistle blower" against scientology is a real whistle blower, brah.
I was talking to him via e-mail and jon atack knows him well too. PS. if anything obscene happens at the conference, it will be caught by whoever is there. I'll be taking it the way I usually do, with caution, when at a real life event.
To Why We Protest readers, I am Jim Beverley. I was at the lunch with the two Scientology leaders. They asked me to come to lunch so they thought it socially proper to pay for lunch. I thought it was reasonable to accept. So, they bought my salad and a diet coke. I have received no cash from Scientology, no free trips...I have received a few free books of their literature. That's about it in 37 years of studying and teaching about Scientology. Jim
Karen de la Carriere misunderstood a couple of things related to me last November and she was concerned for about a day or two about me. I explained things to her in private and apologized for misunderstanding one thing her husband Jeffrey told me. We patched things up quickly and remain friends. I value her work and Jeffrey's work immensely. That long ESMB thread will show that concerns about me being pro-OSA died out quite quickly and the posts centered on debate about Scientology's status as a religion. As people can see as the thread went on, I became more concerned about Scientology leaders, including Hubbard, using the religion issue as a cloak. That is one of the things I raised with Earl and Pat during our lunch.
Earlier, you wrote that during this meeting (shown in the photo) you received attacks worse than you have ever received. Do you have any of these attacks in writing that you could share?
Earl and Pat responded to my query about religion as a cloak by saying that quotes from Hubbard in this regard are taken out of context. Their attack was not written but verbal and mainly centered on how terrible the conference is and how it is about hatred, bigotry, anti-religion, anti-Canadian, etc.
It would still be nice to see something in writing. I hope the conference is, amongst other things, about corporate Scientology's use of religion as gimmick.
Then you're probably one of three people, and I know you. Or you're not, and I still know you. If you're not Gregg and you're not me, that doesn't leave too many options.
Out of context? What. Ever. Oh, right, you mean like 'never defend, always attack'? Have you ever noticed how that Scientology tactic never, ever addresses the main points being raised but, instead, reduces the argument down to ad hom?? Seriously, dude, you are going to have to "kill your darling" on this one and accept that like many, many others you too have been duped into granted Scientology religious status where non exists.[/quote]
Do YOU think it was taken out of context? You also said that they handed you something on the people who were speaking at the conference. Don't you find this odd for a "church" to do? It was definitely something negative about those people. Do you feel you are being lied to by the cult? How do you feel about the cult abusing it's members? Their "public members" suffer family and friend disconnection, brain washing, fair gaming, financial ruin, their auditing sessions are taped, the cult uses what is in their auditing folders against them if they leave and speak out, they are issued SP declares and all other members and friends are expected to disconnect from them, not allowed to read any "entheta" (anything critical on the cult) and also the severe pressure they are put under to donate to the point of losing their homes and financial ruin. Not to mention "sec checks" which uses the emeter to tell if they are lying. They are also expected to "tattle tale" on other members and even their own family members if they know of anyone speaking against Hubbard, David Miscavige , Scientology or talking about thoughts about these things. And in their Sea Org they must sign billion year contracts, (some as young as 12 years old) there is slave labor, child labor, unfair labor wages, coerced abortions, sleep deprivation, poor nutrition, severe sec checks on the emeter which can last for days, being put on the RPF or the RPF's RPF (severe punishment for being "out ethics"), improper education, improper health and dental care, family disconnection, unable to use the internet or free to read what they want, their mail is gone through and confiscated, they are promised a better life if they come to the US or they are shipped to other places and totally cut off from their families. They are also not allowed to have children. A lot of this goes for their staff members to. Any need to go on????? All this may be hard to believe that this actually happens in the US and world wide but….. Have you ever read or heard of the "The Big List"? It currently has 2599 people on it who were once members of the Cult of Scientology (both public, staff and Sea Org members) and who have spoken out. Next to their names it tells how long they were in the cult, the levels they have reached, positions held in the cult, the area, their personal stories, interviews , films, books, court cases with the cult and more. It is a bevy of information and has been a work in progress for years and it continues to grow. You can find the list here: http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out It is certainly worth the read. And it also shoots giant holes through the cult's claims that there are only a handful of disgruntled members who have left and spoken out. Do you think ALL these people can be lying?
For "New Religious Movement scholars" the bar is so low, for what is required for something to be classified as a bone fide religion, that virtually anything could be classified as a religion. Something could be a fraud and thoroughly evil and still qualify as a religion if one person sincerely thinks it's a religion, etc. It's kind of like David Miscavige's, and his accountants', ultimate wet dream.
Jon Atack ponders Scientology’s ‘mystery of mysteries’ as his Toronto conference looms By Tony Ortega, The Underground Bunker Jon sent us this dispatch as he’s preparing for this week’s big conference in Toronto. We’ll be joining him there on Monday, and on Tuesday he’s having us speak with Paulette Cooper. JON: I should be packing as it is almost time to rush to the airport, but I wanted to share a few reflections before the Grand Event at Toronto begins, on Monday. Continued here: http://tonyortega.org/2015/06/20/rf...ver-with-scientology-and-the-nation-of-islam/
make that 2600 people who have spoken out on The Big List. Christian Stolte, actor on the TV show "Chicago Fire" just spoke out on Ortega's book tour.
It's not about proving, it's about agreeing. Miscavige has his PR people and his lawyers repeating, "Scientology religion," "Scientology Church," and "the Church" over and over again. In recent times, the deceived and psychologically conditioned members of the Scientology organization are told to say these things over and over again when non Scientologists might be listening. The critics of Scientology are encouraged to use these same words while criticizing Scientology. This is a long term effort by corporate Scientology. It's very important to David Miscavige.
why would you post this after what I posted? It wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was to ask Beverly if he was aware of the Big List and if he personally agreed with OSA that Hubbard's quotes were taken out of context. Furthermore It's a cult. PERIOD
Is this the Ecclesiastical head of the Scientology religion David Miscavige? If so, I really want to say that it's a real honor to met you.
They also have their own language that only their members understands, and they cut their staff, and Sea org members off from society and their families and friends, the internet and do not allow them to look at anything critical on the internet or read what they choose. Their mail is monitored and gone through. They also encourage tattling on each other. CULT! NOW that is the end of the derail of this thread
Fifty years ago the Australian Board of Inquiry on Scientology recognized what was Hubbard's model for Scientology. They knew, then. It had nothing to do with religion.
Hi Glenn: I plan to mention just Denise's work in this area in my presenation: and I'm sure I won't be the only person who does. She is sorely missed.
Good morning Suppressives. Just gearing up for coverage of the Gettng Clear conference. If my laptop behaves I'll be live-tweeting from the event between posts. I'm using a new platform, Byline.com, for coverage and since we are trying to reach a general audience, I have adjusted the copy accordingly. But once the event gets going I'm sure there'll be plenty to keep you hard-bitten, world-weary veterans interested. You can see the first post here: and although I won't be posting to Infinite Complacency, I've started an index there for the conference coverage. A favour to ask: since I'll be very busy, would really appreciate if you could repost this message -- and word on any future posts in the other forums, on Twitter etc. Thanking you in advance, Jonny Jacobsen @jonnymcj
http://www.xenu-directory.net/practices/brainwashing1.html Here's a follow up link on the above. Contains a lot of good information and revealing background, including letters from Hubbard. Interesting how Germany describes Scientology as an abusive business and a psycho-political group disguised as a religion.
How is it that Hubbard would warn others about hypnosis and then use hypnosis on them? And warn others about brainwashing and psycho politics and then use that on them. Volney Mathison, from sixty years ago, explained: "First, he announces or 'exposes'... then he uses the very power he has denounced... the victim in caught completely off guard."
LIVE-BLOGGING: The Toronto conference on Scientology kicks off and we’re on the scene By Tony Ortega, The Underground Bunker It’s day one of the Scientology studies conference that’s been organized in Toronto by Jon Atack, and we’ve already had a blast. Yesterday, we arrived and began hanging out with a stellar list of people who appear regularly in stories here at the Underground Bunker. When, for example, do you expect to find Gerry Armstrong sitting with Hana Whitfield? Come on, this is amazing. The conference gets going today at 9:30 am Eastern time, and we’ll provide some live coverage as we watch Atack get things going. Today’s subject is supposed to be L. Ron Hubbard’s early history. Later in the afternoon we have to take off as we go to a local appearance with Paulette Cooper for our book about her, The Unbreakable Miss Lovely. Trailing along to film us will be an Australian TV crew. Continued here: http://tonyortega.org/2015/06/22/li...-scientology-kicks-off-and-were-on-the-scene/
