Tony Ortega: Scientology Mythbusting with Jon Atack

Discussion in 'Media' started by The Wrong Guy, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. The Wrong Guy Member

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  2. The Wrong Guy Member

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  3. DeathHamster Member

    Tony, guest-starring at 8:50.

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  4. The Wrong Guy Member

    Here's Tony's Facebook post today:

    On Saturdays, Scientology historian Jon Atack helps us set the record straight about church legend. This week, we asked him to consider L. Ron Hubbard's notorious "R2-45" policy -- was he joking about "exteriorizing" souls with the use of a pistol, or is Scientology really saddled with murder therapy?

    Scientology's Notorious R2-45 Policy: Is There a Smoking Gun? | The Underground Bunker

    Jon, we have to admit that we’re pretty skeptical about Scientology’s “R2-45″ policy, which was mentioned on this blog earlier this week. Supposedly, L. Ron Hubbard instructed his followers that to use the R2-45 method was to eliminate church enemies with the use of a Colt semi-automatic pistol (with .45 caliber ammunition). What’s the evidence that LRH ever really invented a policy of murder?

    JON: “R2-45″ did become a code in the cult. Outside of the Guardian’s Office (the church’s original intelligence unit, 1966-1981), no one took it seriously — at least for a moment.

    R2-45 came about while Hubbard was exploring some new “creative processes” (actually visualization, borrowed directly from his “very dear friend” Aleister Crowley), which were gathered together in The Creation of Human Ability. R-2 is “route 2″ and was supposed to result in superhuman powers for those brave enough to travel it. Sadly, as with all Hubbard’s promises of supernatural powers, it failed. It is said that Hubbard took a Colt pistol on stage and fired a shot through the stage to make his point that there was a simple and effective way of “exteriorizing” the being (or “thetan”) from the “meat” body. As the text says, it is a method that is “frowned upon”:

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  5. The Wrong Guy Member

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  6. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jon Atack on the Hypnotic History of Scientology Auditing | The Underground Bunker

    Jon, we recently pointed out in our reading of a first-edition copy of Dianetics that L. Ron Hubbard’s description of a “dianetic reverie” sounded an awful lot like hypnosis. We got an earful from independent Scientologists who didn’t appreciate that comparison — Hubbard himself insisted that auditing was not hypnosis.

    You’ve done some research on the relationship of the two. What can you tell us?

    JON: It is strange that Scientologists know little or nothing about hypnosis, as their founder was passionate about the subject. Let me point out a significant anomaly found in the practices of the cult, which concerns the direct use of hypnosis.

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  7. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jon Atack on Scientology - "The Church of Hate" | The Underground Bunker

    We’re taking a slight departure from our usual Saturday conversation with Jon. He’s headed for Denmark this week for a meeting of FECRIS, the Fédération Européenne des Centres de Recherche et d‘Information sur le Sectarisme, which in English becomes the European Federation of Centers of Research and Information on Sectarianism.

    For the convention, Jon has written a brief overview of Scientology that we found powerful. If you’ve been keeping up with our Saturday conversations, you’ve seen us dive into quite a few different subjects in church history. But in this piece, Jon does his best to distill into one relatively short document what sets Scientology apart.

    We’ve asked Jon for permission to excerpt a few portions of the paper he’s delivering in Copenhagen, and he generously agreed. We hope you find the latest Atack offering a good summation of what fascinates us about this organization.

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  8. Anonymous Member

    In 1966, Hubbard created the Guardian’s Office to protect himself. Branch One, which was the department of harassment, thrived for 16 years, under Hubbard’s direction. The 800-page training manual — the ‘B-1 Hat’ —
    Calling Manson's creepy-crawlies to the courtesy phone...
  9. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jon Atack on Why It’s So Hard To Recover From Scientology « The Underground Bunker

    This week, Jon sent us something special. We had been discussing the way former Scientologists seem to need years away from the church before they can shake off their conditioning. That prompted Jon to write for us this remarkable essay about what motivated him to come back into the public eye after many years under the radar.
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  10. Anonymous Member

  11. jensting Member

  12. Anonymous Member

    It seems hypocrisy to me. Would posting my name make my complaint more valid? Would the fact that I have bought you a drink in the past help make my complaint more true?
  13. OTeleventy Member

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  14. jensting Member

    As long as the work is available for purchase I don't see an issue with the author controlling the rights. (Was the first edition not withdrawn from sale before it was made available on the web? Can't remember.)

    In any case, good luck finding Anons supporting flagrant breech of copyright on a work which is available for purchase.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Good luck finding Anons suyporting flagrant breech of copyright on a work which is available for purchase at the Church "spit" of Scientology.
  16. Anonymous Member

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  17. The Wrong Guy Member

    OT Powers: Jon Atack on Scientology’s Promise to Make You Superhuman « The Underground Bunker

    Jon Atack is the author of A Piece of Blue Sky, one of the very best books on L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. He now has a new edition of the book out, and on Saturdays he’s helping us sift through the legends, myths, and contested facts about Scientology that tend to get hashed and rehashed in books, articles, and especially on the Internet
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  18. The Wrong Guy Member

    When Jon Atack Declared David Miscavige a Suppressive Person « The Underground Bunker

    Jon has a special treat for us today. He thought readers might want to see the document that he prepared back in 1984, declaring Scientology leader David Miscavige a “suppressive person” — the church’s version of excommunication.

    Says Jon: “We sent it to every Org and Mission and it was actually read out to rejoicing at staff muster in several. It is amazing to me that subsequent to this, he was able to remove Hubbard’s assigned heirs — the Broekers — and take control, simply because all around were terrified of him.”
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  19. RightOn Member

    too bad there wasn't a mutiny
  20. Sonichu Moderator

    I'm glad there wasn't. There could have actually been a legitimate heir to scientology who actually knew what they were doing. Thereby denying us of the beautiful fracturing that has accelerated Scientology's downfall.

    Think about it, a competent leader might have tried to quietly handle the Tom Cruise video, and then all of Anonymous would not have woken up.
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  21. RightOn Member

    I can't agree. too many have/are suffered. (suffering)
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  22. The Wrong Guy Member

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  23. The Wrong Guy Member

    Leaving Scientology: Jon Atack Navigates the Labyrinth of Paranoia

    This week, the media is buzzing about a woman who left the Church of Scientology after protesting the way it interrogates and discards people, and pits members against each other. Longtime Scientology watchers, however, know that these are not new concerns about the church. And Jon Atack makes that point by telling us what he went through when he left the church in 1984.
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  24. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jon Atack: A Case of Scientology Fair Game Deflected with Disinfecting Sunlight

    We’ve been talking a lot lately about Scientology’s policy of “disconnection,” which church members can face when they leave the fold. But some ex-members can face another wave of retaliation from the church, known as Fair Game. Jon Atack reminded us this week of a particular harassment campaign that backfired badly against the church — the case of Bonnie Woods in England.

    Woods was an American living in England who had left Scientology in 1982 and then, ten years later, was running a hotline to help other people who defected. Agents from the church retaliated against her by picketing her house and spreading leaflets with misinformation about her. She sued for libel, and the church hit back with three libel suits of its own. Eventually, however, the church was defeated when it had to apologize for spreading lies about Bonnie and her husband Richard.
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  25. jensting Member

    I commented thusly. Not to take anything away from Jon, but there's relevance to protesting and the people who do it,

    Also, please read chapter 10 of Bonnie's book.

    And the book for you downloaders (booh! ;) )
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  26. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology’s Crumbling: Can Gerry Armstrong Begin to Think of Crossing the Border?

    The Church of Scientology may be around for years to come, but it’s in such dire straits at the moment, we can’t help thinking about some of the consequences if it suddenly went belly up. One of the first things that comes to our mind are the many people whose lives are affected negatively on an ongoing basis because of the church’s legacy of ripped apart families, onerous legal settlements, and silencing gag orders. One of the first people we’d like to see sprung from years of legendary harassment, for example, is British Columbia resident Gerry Armstrong, who avoids stepping foot in the United States because of a legal history that is almost too outlandish to believe.

    It’s also a very complex history, and that’s why we’ve turned to Jon Atack for help. This week, we begin a series on Gerry Armstrong and his legal plight that we hope will eventually, perhaps, lead to some real changes to make up for an incredible legacy of shameful behavior against a man who simply tried to tell the truth.

    Jon, to start out, can you tell us about the first time you met Gerry?
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  27. David_Mayo_Today.jpg
  28. Anonymous Member


    Posted on TO today are pics of an apollo wedding. If anybody wonders where the pic of the commodore messengers in picture hats came from, it was from Gerry Armstrongs wedding. You can see them glaring off behind the right couple's (Gerry and wife) shoulders.
  29. Anonymous Member


    Attached Files:

  30. The Wrong Guy Member

    Jon Atack and a Special Guest Wrestle with Gerry Armstrong’s Legal Scientology Nightmare

    By Tony Ortega

    Last week, we asked Jon to help us understand Gerry Armstrong’s past — which is one of the most complex in Scientology history. Jon explained that Gerry had been a young Sea Org member who discovered an amazing trove of original documents that L. Ron Hubbard had amassed over many years. He saved the collection of documents from the shredder, and then got permission to begin archiving it. But the contents of that archive shocked Armstrong: it tended to undercut every claim Hubbard had made about his history, and threatened to seriously harm the reputation of the man who had created Scientology.

    Disillusioned by what he had found, Armstrong nevertheless was committed to helping Omar Garrison, a writer who had been hired to pen an official biography of Hubbard. And he was still committed to that project when everything went sour. Years of litigation ensued, and that litigation is complex. In order to tell it, Jon brought in an expert to help us get through this next portion of the Armstrong saga.

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  31. LOLOLOL You must be joking. Anonymous violating copyright laws ..... more likely than you think.

    I am still waiting for the debate between Jon Atack or Gerry Armstrong and Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder. Those two fucking cowards do not have the cojones to face Jon or Gerry. Losers.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Comment there:
    Can someone get this video??? Or do we have it and I forgot?

    8 minutes ago
    HELP. In a generous mood, I responded to a Craigslist ad requesting help with a psychology research project for a college paper. After a brief conversation about my life's goals and minor struggles, I agreed to watch a video and give my analysis. Shock. It was Will Smith talking about how he turned his life around. After 2 seconds, realized I'd been suckered in to watching a Scieno tape, I emailed the jerk and demanded that he never contact me again. Any ideas on what to do if he starts harassing me?
  33. Anonymous Member

    Where is this famed comment? I can't find it anywhere on Tony's site.
  34. jensting Member

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  35. Anonymous Member

    Follow up by me-
    SaAnon DavidaRochelle
    2 hours ago
    I am not going to link it on this blog but is called
    Daily Money Team - Lesson- How To Turn Your Life Around- ? (It is a poor quality you tube video with all sorts of Will Smith screen grabs of interviews and appears to be nothing more than an un endorsed- get rich spam ploy, imo.) If that is the video- it appears to have zilch to do with scientology. Just sayin.
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  36. The Wrong Guy Member

    How Does Scientology’s Cosmology Really Work? Historian Jon Atack Has a Theory

    By Tony Ortega

    This week, Jon, we wanted your thoughts on the whole schmear.

    L. Ron Hubbard’s ideas about the human mind and the physical universe really don’t comport with what science tells us about how the world works. But how does Hubbard’s worldview still continue to work for some people?

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  37. dongcopter fruitcake said:

    What is the latest known pic of the Hub?

    Are his 'nads glowing?..

  38. The Wrong Guy Member

    What Motivated L. Ron Hubbard? Historian Jon Atack Follows the Clues

    By Tony Ortega

    Jon, last week you took on the shared reality that props up Scientology’s cosmology. But what about L. Ron Hubbard himself? Did he share in that reality? This time, you said you wanted to tackle Hubbard’s original motivations for creating a worldwide movement. What have you found out?

    JON: In the 1952 book Scientology: 8.80, Hubbard described his goal in these words: “My purpose is to bring a barbarism out of the mud it thinks conceived it and to form, here on Earth, a civilization based on human understanding, not violence. That’s a big purpose. A broad field. A star-high goal.”

    Long before this, he wrote a fascinating letter to his first wife, which has since been copyrighted on behalf of his estate.

    THE BUNKER: It may be copyrighted, but you made sure a healthy portion of it was quoted in Russell Miller’s book, Bare-Faced Messiah.

    JON: Before I get to the letter, I wanted to relate an anecdote to help put this subject — Hubbard’s motivation — into some further context.

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  39. The Wrong Guy Member

    The History of Scientology’s Weird Vaults — The Bizarre Battlefield Earth Connection!

    By Tony Ortega

    THE BUNKER: Jon, new photography of the Trementina Base in New Mexico has people talking about Scientology’s vaults again. The underground vaults are built and operated by a church entity known as the Church of Spiritual Technology, or CST. Shelly Miscavige’s mysterious existence — probably at CST’s HQ in the mountains above LA — also has the press talking about CST.

    CST is a weird animal when it comes to the rest of the Scientology organization. As you pointed out last week, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard left a huge amount of money to CST when he died in 1986 — half a billion dollars — plus the copyrights and trademarks to his works, and that makes CST a key entity. But CST’s actual activities — building vaults to store copies of Hubbard’s works so they survive a nuclear holocaust — are bizarre and very separate from the rest of the church. We wanted to try and trace the reasons why. With your help, and that of a surprise guest, we were stunned by what we learned — and we’ve saved the best for last.

    The operation of these vault facilities in California, New Mexico, and now Wyoming almost seem quaint. The New Mexico property, for example, is basically set in amber. One house which is essentially a prop to cover up the vault entrance, and another, larger house that sits empty while waiting for LRH to return. One or two CST employees live at the place, while the rest of it just sits dormant. Marc Headley tells us that the archive project — to put Hubbard’s words on steel plates and his lectures on gold discs — was completed long ago, and those materials may only take up small portions in each of the vaults.

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  40. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology Heresy: Jon Atack on L. Ron Hubbard’s Debt to Psychiatry

    By Tony Ortega

    Jon, we have a feeling you’re going to get us in a lot of trouble this week. You’ve been unearthing some real gems for us recently, but in this investigation, you’ve found some connections in the early writings of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard that suggest he owes a greater debt to some psychiatric techniques than his followers might like to admit. We have a feeling today’s comment section is going to be lively!

    So what did you find, Jon?

    JON: Science of Survival (1951) was the first Hubbard book that I read. It remains the best written of his books, perhaps because it was compiled by Richard de Mille. I was baffled from the first by the term narco-synthesis, which is mentioned briefly and with little explanation. It wasn’t in my two-volume Oxford dictionary. Hubbard said “a pre-clear must never be audited under sedation” and added “as in narco-synthesis.” (Book 1, p.162). In Book 2, he uses the term again, while talking about US government use of “pain-drug-hypnosis.” (pp.222-223). There is an earlier, brief mention in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health (1950). I knew that it meant drug-assisted therapy, but I did not resolve the full meaning of this strange term until long after I’d left the cult.

    Part of my search was through the Research and Discovery volumes — the first edition, before they were edited to remove Hubbard’s boasts about his extensive drug use. Hubbard was evidently aware of the origin of narco-synthesis.

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