Thread Derail Graveyard

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mark Cabian, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. Anonymous Member

    So much civil discourse.

    A Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts is raising the stakes in the nation’s fight over the future of public employee unions, saying emails aren’t enough to show support and that it is time to “get a little bloody.”

    “I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,” Rep. Mike Capuano (D-Ma.) told a crowd in Boston on Tuesday rallying in solidarity for Wisconsin union members.

    Oh the tasty tears. As I said before, expect more violence from the left as their covers get pulled.

  2. Anonymous Member

    Tea Partiers are supporting Walker, apparently.

    I still question why the Tea Party movement continues to sabotage their livelihood watching Fox News for misinformation, settling for idiots like Sarah Palin for leadership, and supporting asinine initiatives. Its like fighting for their right to be retarded.

    Here is an interesting article:
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  3. Anonymous Member

    Public sector unions are a scourge, I know, I'm in TWO. I'm tired of being forced to pay thousands to support politics I don't believe in. I'd rather be able to donate MY political money on politics I do believe in.

    Everyone would like to have unreasonable promises made to them. Problem with it is that; you eventually run out of other peoples money. I can't believe so many people support socialist policies that have failed every time they are tried.

  4. LocalSP Member

    I know 3 ex scientologists irl and all 3 have become devout teabaggers. I guess they've just exchanged one cult for another.
  5. moarxenu Member

    Word on Herro getting banned?
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  6. Zak McKracken Member

    Maybe they just couldn't find a GF mask.

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  7. Anonymous Member

    god I hope so.
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  8. Herro Member

    You'd miss me too much.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Personally I hope all labor unions die in America. Im in commerical construction and its just abused nationwide. If we want to compete in the world market anymore they have to go. Sorry but they have been abused for too long and they are just a drain on our economy.
  10. Herro Member

    Yeah, you gotta hate those whiny little bastards making unreasonable demands like fair wages.
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  11. subgenius Member

  12. Anonymous Member

    Everyone demands fair wages whether or not they are in a union. They jsut arent relevant anymore and the only reason people want them around is cause they are paid too much with too many benefits and thats why the car companies crash and many many others. Its bankrupting america and the citizens. Take a stroll through Detroit sometime.

    Lower competitive wages and lower company expense.........there would still be jobs.
  13. subgenius Member

    poor corporations BAWWWWW they're so helpless
  14. Anonymous Member

    Yes.........they were needed but no longer.
  15. Anonymous Member

    I dont want anyone to lose their jobs. Certainly not but unions have been abused for years and years and they just dont make sense anymore in this world economy.
  16. subgenius Member

  17. Herro Member

    I'm with you up to that last part. Do unions need reform? Absolutely. But getting rid of them is a classic case of throwing out the baby with the bath water.
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  18. subgenius Member

    cause corps treat everyone so fairly when left alone to do so
    can't understand why people think corps are so helpless and can't stand up for themselves.....just say no....mmmmkay.....let's see Ford Motor Co.....nice profits lately......damn unions.....
  19. subgenius Member

    don't think you meant it that way, but its truer than your intent
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  20. subgenius Member

    BTW I have a big problem with public servants being overpaid.....but don't agree with union busting.....
    a national disgrace imho that the people that work for us are paid more than us.....
    the issue is how to build accountability and efficiency into that sector
  21. Anonymous Member

    Unions have been abused by gold-diggers like the Hoffas to line their own nest and primp their egoes.
    They've also suffered abuse from conservatives as a scarecrow representing all that's wrong with America.

    Rank-and-file members are tired of lies and empty promises from corporate management, and increasingly, now, from corrupt Union management. As Unions grow weaker from internal and external attacks, their real power declines and "empty promises" become the only thing they can offer their members. The trouble is, those problems facing workers in this country (and others) have NOT declined, along with Union strength. They're becoming more complicated and convoluted. The central bargaining and solidarity that Unions have offered in the past is no longer as effective, as the economy diversifies and radiates. The security that Unions promise - is tied directly to their clout.

    I hate to say "Looks like a job for Anonymous!" but, damn.
    A new of union "member"ship and "leader"ship, built roughly along the same lines as Chanology,
    would, IMO be more effective in advocating worker rights (and responsibilities) and in securing protection for those persons.

    It'd be a lot scarier to Management, far more annoying, and far more agile than Unions in the current model.
    I dare say (hope) that the Hive model of infighting and filtering would promote better internal coherence for workers within the collective, than Union decision-making today (where The Game I just lost is largely politics, and many members feel left out of the process).

    fwiw, I'm not "anti-union". I think they're a force for good, and a necessary counterbalance. They're just horribly slow in adapting to change, and there's never been strong enough incentive for them to make those changes necessary to survive.
  22. Anonymous Member

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  23. Anonymous Member

    I don't agree with union busting either, but it strikes me that (for lack of strike, curiously enough :p) they are becoming obsolete in that they're becoming less able at doing the job they're supposed to. Union membership is demoralized. Morale can't be much better than Scientology staff these days.

    Throw them out, and people will have no more protection. As bad as things are, and as much worse as they're likely to get, without some form of Unions, we'd be seeing yet more drastic cuts in compensation and benefits, because the corporations/Scott Walkers would see that nothing remains to challenge them.
  24. Anonymous Member

    As often you're here ...I'm guessing you're a union member.

    Union demands are unreasonable and unsustainable. The unions are have become unreasonable in in their demands. It simple math really.
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  25. Anonymous Member

    Walker refuses to reverse tax cuts which greatly contributed to the budget woes, and is now trying to foist the pain on the middle class by stripping away collective bargaining (the only real protection these folks have). The unions have already agreed to Walker’s cuts, so the claim that busting the unions is about fiscal responsibility is blatantly bollocks.

    But I’m not sure which makes my blood boil more. The fact this shithead thinks he will get away with this transparent tactic, or the fact that there seem to be enough ignorant morons to prove him right?

    Tax breaks for corporations and the super wealthy being supported by the benefactors of such I get. But being supported by middle class folks who end up getting fucked in the process just boggles the mind.
  26. LocalSP Member

    The 8 hour work day, 40 hour work week, mandatory breaks, safety guidelines, grievance procedures, a minimum wage, the concept of a work free weekend, child labor laws, workers comp, pensions, health safeguards, and paid sick days, vacation days, and holidays. If you enjoy any of these things, thank a union member.
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  27. Anonymous Member

    You might also thank the employer who made the job available.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Union demands haven't changed much. What's changed is the economy that supports the jobs that Unions protect. Handwaving "it simple math" is an insult. That the math has become much hairier is a big deal itself.

    The demands aren't themselves unreasonable- but they need to be expressed in the semantics of current challenges. Hopefully then, Union leadership can grow balls like their grandmothers had.
  29. Anonymous Member

    The shrinking middle class, the growing gulf between the wealthy and the poor, stagnant wages, and rising numbers of people with no health care coverage all state that you are dead wrong.
  30. LocalSP Member

    On March 7, 1932, in the midst of the Depression, unemployed autoworkers, their families and union organizers braved bitter cold temperatures and gathered at this bridge, intent on marching to the Ford Rouge Plant and presenting a list of demands to Henry Ford. Some three thousand "hunger marchers" paraded down Miller Road. At the city limit Dearborn police blocked their path and hurled tear gas; the marchers responded with rocks and frozen mud. Near Gate No. 3 the demonstrators werebombarded by water from fire hoses and a barrage of bullets. In the end, five marchers were killed, nineteen wounded by gunfire and numerous others by stones, bricks and clubs. Newspapers alleged the marchers were communists, but they were in fact people of all political, racial and ethnic backgrounds.
    --- Text as written on Michigan Historical Marker.

    The following is from an interview last year with Dave Moore, eyewitness.


    The conditions were so bad and working people had suffered so much that they had reached a point where anything could happen. This helped speed up the momentum of the Unemployed Councils. A display of unity between all the people – Black, white, religious, and political, just about everyone – was shown. Because all of us were suffering the same fate: hunger, poverty, unemployment, needing medical care etc. It still makes me mad as hell when I remember the conditions working people had to go through during the Depression before the Unemployed Councils and the Hunger March took place.

    I hope you never will witness what people went through. People would go down to the old Eastern Market and pick up half-rotten white potatoes or sweet potatoes, lettuce and cabbage, whatever the farmers were throwing away. That was the source of food for many people, picking up a half-rotten banana or a half-rotten potato, any kind of half-rotten vegetables, to bring home so your mama could make a meal out of it. I came from a family of seven boys and two girls, and the older boys had to leave home. Whatever food there was, was left for the younger ones. David Moore, and a lot of other David Moore’s went very hungry at that time. But we tried to make it possible for our moms and dads and brothers and sisters to eat. We’d go out and try to salvage whatever we could from the stores and street corners, wherever different kinds of food – discarded vegetables and meat – had been thrown out because they couldn’t sell it. That’s how we got together a meal for ourselves.


    They turned the water hose on us first. That didn’t stop us. We kept going. Then they had about eight mounted policemen come through to break our ranks. That didn’t stop us. We got within about 40 or 50 yards of the Ford employment office on Miller Road when three cars came roaring out the gate. One guy had a machine gun over his shoulder, riding on the running board of the car. I don’t know what the other guy had on the passenger side, but this guy was standing on the driver’s side. There were three or four other cars that followed them. All of a sudden gun shots were heard. People began to scream and scatter. There were five guys who got killed – four of them were white and one of them Black.

    One thing that absolutely showed the true nature of the horrible scene that occurred that day was when a Black woman in the March by the name of Mattie Woodson tore off a piece of her dress and leaned down to wipe the blood off the neck of one of the white guys who had been shot. They only published that picture one time. From that day on, the Ford Motor Company would not let that picture be published.

    You have to understand the power of the Henry Ford and the Ford Motor Company. He owned the city of Dearborn. All of the policemen in the police department of Dearborn had sworn an oath to uphold and protect the Ford Motor Company. All the firemen they hired had sworn an oath to do all they could to protect the Ford Motor Company. All the politicians on the city council and the elected officials in Dearborn got elected by means of the money and the approval of the Ford Motor Company. You’ve got to understand the awesome power that the Ford Motor Company wielded over the city of Dearborn. The city of Dearborn at that time was completely controlled financially, politically, and by whatever means there were by the Ford Motor Company.

    Five young people in the bloom of life, in their teens and early twenties, just beginning to see life, were lying dead on Miller Road. To this day, no charges have been brought against Ford Motor Company or anyone else. I ask why those five people down there on Miller Road – that's what the word is – murdered; they weren't shot; they were murdered by machine gun and pistol fire. To this day, while you and I are talking, the Ford Motor Company has never been investigated. The Ford Motor Company has never been charged. The Ford Motor Company has never had to answer why they killed those five people. Can you imagine? Nobody among the marchers had guns to kill them with. They were killed by company agents at the orders of the Ford Motor Company. And to this day, no one has ever officially accused the Ford Motor Company of any wrongdoing.
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  31. Anonymous Member

    Can someone explain to me why teabaggers are supporting Walker on this? Isn’t union busting not an actualisation of the big government they apparently oppose….?
  32. Ahh yes, looking for logic and consistency in the tea party platform, good luck!!!
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  33. Anonymous Member

    Thanks, boss!


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  34. LocalSP Member

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  35. subgenius Member

  36. Anonymous Member

  37. Anonymous Member

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  38. Anonymous Member

    Trying to get some detail on the tax cuts Walker has introduced. This is a good taste:

    The more I look at this the more the budget crisis appears to be deliberately exasperated for the purposes of forcing through a union bust. Either that or Walker is royally incompetent and genuinely doesn’t understand that cutting off revenue makes a budgetary crisis worse.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Because unions have unreasonable expectations for their efforts. They receive far more compensation than the people who pay their salaries. Public sector (and private sector) unions expect high levels of compensation beyond the years of their productivity.

    Those who can, do. Those who can't work for the government.

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