Re: The Hubbard Virus Another thing that Scilons do not know about is Hubbard's rocky past with use of the occult/ Black Magick (Jack Parsons-Aleister Crowley period) and the drug use Hubbard frequently founded his "research" on. The Hubbard Virus has its roots in Black Magick and drugs, and that betrays the trust of every Scientologist as he "omitted" to tell them the facts behind what they have dedicated their lives to.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Yeah, that too. Also of note (for those daring to venture to the TD): http://forums.whyweprotest.net/38-thundergome/itt-were-all-doomed-23440/
Re: The Hubbard Virus Drugs? Yeah sure, he was a mess. Are the FZ'ers aware of Andre Tabayoyon? 25. I worked personally with Hubbard on the ship called the Apollo, from 1971-73. I personally observed Hubbard running all aspects of Scientology and Sea Org and Guardian Office ("GO") networks. Indeed, at the time I believed Hubbard has saved my life. I had been "overboarded" or thrown aboard. Hubbard then ordered that I be pulled out. Thereafter I believed Hubbard had saved my life and I became very dedicated to both him and Scientology. I served as both steward and butler for Hubbard. Accordingly, I was often alone with him -- even when he was self injecting himself in the arm with a needle and solution. This he did frequently. I would also lay out the pills he took from 10 different numbered bottles. (r) TOO GRUESOME TRAINING - This training teaches a supervisor how to instill complete terror and abject fear in subordinates so that the subordinates will comply with the supervisor's orders without question. I have been a member of various Churches of Scientology for 21 years from 1971 to 1992. During this time, I received extensive and intensive training as a Scientologist. 29. Church monies were used to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles (HK 91 assault rifles capable of firing 300-350 rounds of ammunition a minute, 45 caliber pistols, .380 automatic weapons and twelve gauge shotguns were stockpiled. These weapons were not registered. Church monies were also used to buy the ammunition. 31. The motorcycle guards were trained to carry loaded cocked 45 caliber pistols. The eagle scout, mounted high above the base, was trained to carry a high powered rifle with a telescopic scope. There is also a 1,000 millimeter telescope up with 'eagle'. Drugs, weapons, how to kill... If you're a Scientologist and haven't seen the affidavit of Andre T, then you're just not getting the full effect of Hubbard the great and mighty. Here FZ'ers, read the whole thing then come back and tell us why anything Hubbard did/said should not be burned with fire: Affidavit of Andre Tabayoyon - 5 Mar 1994
Re: The Hubbard Virus hyeah: This is the part they defend themselves, right? Or will they just attack?
Re: The Hubbard Virus I dunno. My google isn't even warm yet and I'm getting kind of bored. Haven't even had a chance to triple-dog-dare them on anything.
Re: The Hubbard Virus MIKE? I think we killed them. If there's nothing else I'm going to hit the sack. That was fun - nice thread. Shitty apology for the rr but I'll take it. :nini:
Re: The Hubbard Virus You're not wrong, but I'd like to shed more light. Yes, there is a huge difference between "these altruisms" and reality, but why is that? You may think it's by design from the get go, but I think it was the result of an "evolved" insanity on LRH's part, primarily, but then incorporated into the organizational structure by the "true believers" on a billion year contract to save the Galaxy. We're seeing a "group gone mad" because of following the lunatic rantings of a man gone off his rocker. And it was mostly during the time after he lost it, that he did the most work on Group structure and policy. Since it has become a sick cult, it's hard to distinguish between anything of value in the tenets, and the obscene behaviour. Yes the cult misses no opportunity to make nothing of it's enemies and detractors, but that's the cult at work, not the tech. Most of you won't entertain the idea that there is anything salvageable within the whole subject, tech, group and all. That's ok. The cult has earned that reaction. And because it is what it is, the whole subject is likely to go down in it's present form, because of the close control and association of the cult management. They tenaciously guard the shit covering the raisins, and pass the collection plate even for the shit. None of which does or can change the fact that there is value to some of the basic tenets. They'll continue with individual who've never come under the spell of the cult, or have broken the chains of control.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Generally speaking, the resistance of the human body is around 10K Ohms, give or take a few hundred ohms. The Voltage drop across the human body is around 10VDC. If what Roland said has any scientific basis, the readings would be constant across any area where you would hold the contacts. This just isn't the case. It varies with proximity of the contacts on the skin due to the inability for the Voltage to break the breakdown voltage of the skin (50 VDC, or around 70 VAC). Sorry, this thing is measuring skin resistance only. That is all. Factor in impurities (dirt, grime, etc) and perspiration, you get a very piss poor reading at that since R2 is constantly being adjusted. I have to claim ignorance on the C-Meter. Never seen the schematic. But, if you can point me to a set of schematics, I'd be happy to build and test it's uselessness as well.
Re: The Hubbard Virus The basic tenets were stolen/plagerised. Let me say that again, Hubbard's tenets, the ones that are essentially pure and good, were not his ideas. I think you'll find that if you actually do succeed at cleaning off all the shit, every single one of the raisins will be stamped with something like "property of Freud" or "property of Buddhism" or "property of Volney Mathison." I believe this is why King Nerd was screaming in green last night for anything Hubbard may have penned himself that was good. You were unsuccessful at this task. That's ok though, we can't find any either. Hubbard had no raisins.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Hmmm... It works like it's supposed to. PROOF PLEASE!! INDEPENDENT STUDY PLEASE!! TAKE THE JREF CHALLENGE THEN!!
Re: The Hubbard Virus Regarding the meters - galvanic skin response (what the E-meter and/or C-meter measure) is one of the variables measured by the polygraph, and as such can theoretically be used to give a ballpark guess as to whether the subject is being deceptive and/or is otherwise tense. Even a polygraph used by an expert operator is far from reliable. Remove all but one of the measurements, and switch to electrodes that are less consistent and significantly easier to game, and you're going to have some seriously unreliable readings. Regarding goldenrodanon's assertion that Hubbard started out meaning well: I suggest you read the Penthouse interview with Ron DeWolfe (LRH Jr.). It's hosted on Lermanet, and I suspect it will disabuse you of any illusions of LRH having a noble bone in his body. That said, LRH wasn't perfect. It's entirely possible that some of his writings, rambling and plagarized though they may be, contain something of value. Yes, that something is likely ripped off wholesale from other sources and repackaged, but does that make it any less valid as a concept? If putting a different wrapper on a good idea makes some people more likely to accept it, isn't that a positive thing? As they say, Mussolini made the trains run on time - to insist on throwing out EVERYTHING Hubbard ever produced is like asserting that the Allies should have intentionally disrupted rail scheduling in Italy, just because the trains were on time because of Mussolini.
Re: The Hubbard Virus OK, enough with the "e-meter is neat" stuff. Guys, if you are in to the tech side of things, I'm gonna write a new religion for you that is better than Co$ and it will only take me 10 seconds and I won't charge you penny. "Buy a respectable biofeedback device (not an e-meter)which measures galvanic skin response, they are cheap. Try a variety of well known meditation methods. Note the influence of your state of mind on the galvanic skin response as detected by the biofeedback device. Experiment with the different meditation methods and learn to control the galvanic skin response. You will feel more relaxed and less stressed. You don't need an auditor. You don't need to pay for it. You will also note that this is all very well described in respectable literature, written by people who haven't ever been convicted of a crime." Ta da!! What do you think? I could make it sound more like LRH if I said "Every being has the right to have rights, and nobody has the right to take away the rights of those who have the rights to have rights, unless the individual tries to take away your rights. And then they must destroyed, exploded, stamped out of existence, even harmed, delayed, or inconvenienced as the case may be, or just told the truth of the matter, whatever that may be"
Re: The Hubbard Virus Regarding Hubbard starting out meaning well. Most narcisisists need to believe they mean well. Otherwise they couldn't think so highly of themselves. They believe that if it is good for themselves, it must be good for everyone else. But I will say this--by the time he wrote Dianetics, he was already a wife-beater, a bigamist, and a dead beat father. He had spent a number of years trying to defraud the military in order to get a pension and he had scammed Jack Parsons out of something like $20,000, a small fortune in those days. In other words, by the time he founded scientology, he was already a confirmed violent bully and misogynist, a liar and a cheat. For the life of me, I don't know how a person like that can be called "well intentioned."
Re: The Hubbard Virus violent bully I like that... and people still subscribe to his tech? his arbitrary tech. because they don't know that? I know it sounds all encompassing but I really feel some people want to follow a bully, there's like a sense of security in knowing that the guy you hang out with, work with, are lead by somehow is the one who people fear. it's like they want to be in the good graces of the kid who picks on the other kids on the schoolyard. I think many of them stayed on because they feared him...and maybe on some primal level they figured something to be feared is something to be respected. but I think that's why so many people are resisting it now, they're standing up to the bully. but what I want to know is why they would still want to subscribe to the bullies tech? it's easy to say "well there's still positive aspects to it", but let's take a good look and where it came from...when I do, when I read about LRH, and then look at what they tell everyone about him, it makes me spit on the religious aspect of it all. CULT CULT CULT.
Re: The Hubbard Virus The fact that it is using a one-dimensional reading (galvanic skin resistance) would stand for me, if it weren't for the double unknown resistance values (subject and tone arm adjust). Still examining the c-meter. Building out circuit simulator as well right now.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Only thing I can say from my own experience with galvanic skin resistance/response is that the important thing is the trend, not the absolute value, as I'm sure you might already be aware. It's mainly what makes you sweat (even a little). For instance, if you try biofeedback first thing in the morning, just after waking up, the GVR will slowly trend upwards as thoughts (and/or caffeine) start to flood into your head (unless you were having nightmares, and then it might go down). In the evening, it might trend down, especially if work sucked and you are enjoying a fine Chardonnay. Meditation can definitely control it, and I believe for most people it would serve as a lie detector, but I could beat it since I meditate. I have used it on other people, and as you can imagine, since it is used by LEA, it does work. For instance, if I hook someone up and am all like, "you are the best,I love you" the GVR goes down. Then if I said "How was your commute today, I bet traffic sucked" and then it shoots up. But I wouldn't ever advise someone to pay for any type of auditing, just do it yourself if you want. The second person just messes up the equation. You don't need it.
Re: The Hubbard Virus No, because trains being on time is objectively good. But I liked the rest of what you had to say.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Some Scientologists regard Scientology as a religion. Other Scientologists don't. Scientologists who believe Scientology is a religion could be wrong about that. Their believing it doesn't make it so. Doesn't even make it so "for them".
Re: The Hubbard Virus But I don't think you get it. What, in here, isn't already happening today for the dedicated cultie staff of Scientology? This is already reality for people on staff, today. This is why we protest. It's why flash raids are a very, very good idea, and It's not "could never happen", it already IS happening, just not to you. (yet) The holocaust (Godwin's law!) happened in Germany. Just because it didn't happen where YOU live doesn't mean that this horrid reality didn't happen. It just didn't happen the world over. That fact makes it no less threatening, no less repulsive, and no less worthy of decimation.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Too late on the Godwinism. We got this thread all godwined up on page 3 I think...
Re: The Hubbard Virus Here's how I see the situation. 1. It's unlikely that Scientology will succeed in "taking over" society by destroying the mental health professions and substituting their own "tech", infiltrating law enforcement, unduly influencing government and the justice system and so on. Unlikely, so there's no point in being alarmist about it. 2. But this is in fact their plan. They've been working at it since the 70s and continue to do so now. 3. This is illegal. If Scientologists want to transform society they can start a political party and campaign for votes just like everyone else. Instead they're orchestrating a surreptitious fifth-column attack on democracy. Which activity contradicts existing law. 4. Don't worry, there's no cause for alarm. It bears repeating that their plan will almost certainly fail. 5. It may also bear repeating that the plan will fail largely because of the efforts of committed citizens who intend to make sure they fail. Just because there's no cause for alarm doesn't mean nobody should do anything. (Like Burroughs said, just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean nobody's out to get you.) So I interpret the OP (whether or not this was the original intention) as simply calling for the required preventative measures. Why? The reason isn't that there's a good chance the Scilons will take over (there isn't). It's that the effects of their success would be absolutely intolerable. This is the significance (as I interpret it) of the OP's lurid description of a world in the thrall of a rampant Scientology. To get a tetanus shot you don't need to be seriously fearful of contracting tetanus. You don't get a shot because the risk of contracting tetanus is high (it isn't). You get the shot because the effects of the disease are especially nasty. For this reason I'm sympathetic to the hyperbolical language of the "Hubbard Virus". Society probably won't catch it, especially if citizens take steps. Yet we should inoculate against it because the disease (the OP shows us graphically) is such a repugnancy.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I concur. Awareness of a potential threat is often sufficient to block it from happening. Vigilance, keeping on target taken with lulz and cake are a good vaccine.
Re: The Hubbard Virus you can all sit outside and say that there is no real threat of scientology taking over but the church has been trying for years to get the policies used by various countries. We are talking about a cult that has managed to gather hundreds of millions of dollars. Much of it from intelligent, well educated people. They have tremendous financial resources and basically free labor. How long before they sucker some small country into a deal? A small country with scientology as the state religion would be host to some of the most grievous abuses to date. It may not happen here but it could happen.
Re: The Hubbard Virus More accurately the effects of their ATTEMPT that are absolutely intolerable. They're never going to come remotely close, but the more out of the limelight they are the less the majority sadly notice their crap. Which is why we're here :smile:
Re: The Hubbard Virus I have to say that I am encouraged by the results anonymous has had. It wasn't long ago that I considered the CofS long term chances pretty good. I think there is still a chance but I think it's a much much slimmer chance. I read somewhere that the Muslim religion is the largest on the planet today but it wasn't always. Christianity was at one point but it too was not always. Let's not forget that the Christians were hunted at first and had to meet in secret. Attempts to wipe out various religions have failed many times. That to me is why the freezone is dangerous. Even if we shut down the CoS the freezone will remain and where do you think all of the people who remain believers will go? They will still want their bridge. The real danger is in the ideas not in the church itself. The church was spawned from hubbards evil that has been propagated through his bastardization of the language. We need to innoculate the general public with the knowledge of what Scientology believes and what their goals are. Once hubbards ideas spread out into society and become mainstream there will always be someone willing to believe them and someday this fight could happen all over again. I am not saying that people don't have a right to believe in what they want to. I AM saying that I agree with the OP and that extremist ideas can take the form of a virus within our culture. You can believe whatever you want but as soon as you ACT on those beliefs to the detriment of our society as a whole or anyone in it, then you become an enemy of mankind.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Unless treated cancer eventually kills its host by consuming the host, leaving a mass of cancerous tissue. The only product of scientology is more scientologists, this is analogous to a societal cancer.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Every time I see one of their propaganda videos (when I'm chopping it up and re-mixing it), and they blather about the past year's "unparalleled expansion," I think to myself, "metastasis."
Re: The Hubbard Virus Anti-cancer therapy is based on the fact that the "bad cells" don't know how to heal after an attack, but the healthy "good cells" know how to heal. Maybe we will create an exact analogy.
