The Hubbard Virus I need to repost this as a new thread as it originally got lost in some confusion. There is a message in here which this OG wants to share with Anonymous. This is about the dangers of the content of the NON religion of Scientology. It has nothing to do with beliefs, as Scientology has no "faith" or beliefs, just "Tech", orders issued by Hubbard and management and "Public Relations" in its money-focused commercial activities. Thanks. [If this is tl/dr go get get delicious cake, put longcat on your lap, sit down and read it anyhow. Purrrrrrrrrrr] Yes you DO need to read this. I have been seeing a lot of posts on the sites around Anonymous' valiant efforts abot Scientology vs Church of Scientology. I would like to post this as my take on it from over 33 years of experience with and in Scientology. My own story is already posted at Michael Pattinson's Experiences in Scientology, MPES - View from the end of Scientology's the bridge to total freedom so that is not what this is about. Scientology is the brainchild of L.Ron Hubbard, former science fiction writer. He formed Scientology back in 1954. He died (living in hiding as "Jack Mitchell" in Creston, California in 1986 under suspicious circumstances and in possession of suitcases full of money (in the millions of dollars). All that is adequately covered in the Google archives under "alt.religion.scientology" newsgroup and its search engine. The San Luis Obispo Coroners report on Hubbard is particularly interesting... Hubbard's intention was to "clear the planet". This is a permanent motto of Scientology and is firmly embedded in the Church (so-called) of Scientology. Clearing the planet means making a 100% Scientology world so that mankind's mental aberrations stemming from pain and unconsciousness and existing as dead space aliens infesting human bodies (as defined by Hubbard as the "reactive mind", or the reactive "bank") could be cleared away. In the context of the Cold War Hubbard used the highly dangerous world nuclear risk as a prod to use fear about the future to get loyalty, money and staff to do the things he wanted done. He wrote a series of letters defining his strictest, highly enforceable policies and in particular one called "Keeping Scientology Working Series #1" or "KSW Number 1" (Tom Cruise was referring to this letter in his now infamous cult-fanatic video rave which sparked off the Anonymous actions against Scientology). KSW #1 is something like the spinal column of the body of Scientology, except that it is not flexible. It runs through every course, every technical correction, every auditing (counseling) session and every action real Scientologists MUST MUST MUST take to remain within the group. It is the determining policy that is the foundation of every other Scientology policy and technical action. So, as you can understand this policy would have determined the kind of world that Scientology had every intention of creating. What you probably don't yet understand is what Earth would be like if Scientology ruled the world. Let me give you an idea of that kind of lifestyle that we were all headed for if Scientology had had its way and taken it all over like an unstoppable virus. There are 10 main points written about in KSW #1. They are all about Hubbard technology and how flawless it is and how to not let it EVER get diluted, changed, altered in any way, etc under penalty of being ex-communicated (declared a Suppressive Person) and losing one's entire future for eternity (yes, no kidding). The whole message is that if a Scientologist fails to apply the 10 points of KSW #1 then they will fail Mankind and everyone on the planet will surely die. This is no exaggeration. That is what Scientologists very firmly believe. it is Hubbard gospel and they KNOW he was right about everything. Ok, so with that in mind all Scientologists are duty bound to apply the 10 points of KSW #1 with their lives and to the death if necessary. They are trained, brainwashed and indoctrinated to be total fanatics about this matter. Tom Cruise showed himself to have fallen into exactly the mindset I am talking about, and I am grateful to him for showing it so graphically and convincingly. Now, my main difficulty here in writing this for people who have never studied Scientology is to convey the degree of blind fanaticism and unthinking forceful motivation that Hubbard and the Church of Scientology have implanted into Scientologists. It is very deep and firmly embedded to the point of being equivalent to the nazi type of world domination intentions. In summary, the 10 points have to do with making sure Hubbard's unique technology is available, never altered, applied exactly as written, made mandatory upon everyone, smashed into the culture by eliminating EVERY OTHER TECHNOLOGY THAT IS NOT HUBBARD'S SCIENTOLOGY TECHNOLOGY (he uses the word hammered out of existence as applied to anyone else's technology than his own brand). The whole paranoid Scientolgy fight against psychiatry and psychology is an example of what I mean and this is severe enough, but is only the tip of the iceberg at this point in time. The fanatic mindset of Scientology AND the "Church" of Scientology (both, not just one) MUST take control of every part of society per Hubbard's orders. Otherwise (they believe) Mankind will destroy itself due to not having Hubbard technology applied EVERYWHERE. The following may appear to be a huge exaggeration but it is not. Ask other long time ex-members to give it some thought and to comment. I welcome their input. So, if Scientology ruled the world this is a bit (not all) of what you would get: (please be seated to read this) NO other books which deal with the mind, the spirit, self-improvement, business administration, ethics, morals or therapy of any kind would be permitted to exist at all. This would include The Bible, The Koran, The Tora, any other religious text of any kind. Sea Org members, all in their spiffy fake navy uniforms would storm-troop the Mosques, Synagogues, Cathedrals etc and burn or shred every other religious text they could get their hands on. It would also include all medical books, prescription drug-related books, manuals and directions. There would be NO TV, NO internet, NO radio or newspapers and any magazines would only be Scientology magazines. Scientologists are ALREADY forbidden to have these in many places. For them this is already their daily lifestyle. Freedom of speech would be zero. Only approved Hubbard-compliant talk, writing or communication would be tolerated. It is already like this within the Sea Organization. Any contrary beliefs or thoughts (and you get found out on the e-meter) are subject to severe and forceful "ethics" sanctions, punishments, enslavements and expulsion into the nothingness of excommunication. Sex would be a crime. Hubbard wrote that sex and pain are the inventions of psychiatry to smash down the spirit of humans. He said sex is a psychiatric weapon against mankind. Being in pain would be a crime as it would mean that you are being influenced by the Hubbard-Scientology arch-enemy psychiatry! You would have to see which of your family members or friends are poisoning you with psychiatric influences and then you would disconnect them from your life and from the Scientology society. I could go on as there are plenty of further insane idiocies that would be part of your daily lifestyle if EITHER Scientology or the "Church" of Scientology are allowed to spread their "Hubbard Virus" across the world further. The Scientology mindset is a mental VIRUS. It spreads through being trusting while close to a Scientologist and believing KSW #1. Hopefully this post and other important posts by ex members who know what they are talking about will act as a kind of vaccination. So, when I see or hear Anonymous and others saying "Well, we are against the Church of Scientology, but Scientology is maybe OK" I feel very strongly that I want to sit down with them, have some delicious cake and explain exactly what I mean till they totally get it about what I have explained above. I suppress my "What the F*** are you thinking??" That is because I know that these wonderful people of Anonymous have never had this explained before. So, here it is. Both Scientology and the Church of Scientology are the same viral carrier. What we need to do is clear the planet of the Hubbard virus. Anybody agree?
Re: The Hubbard Virus I dunno about obliterated, but surely if the FBI is keeping track of who checks out certain books from libraries you would think that anything written by L. Ron Hubbard would raise a flag when more than 5 were checked out by a single reader. I agree, the stuff is toxic. I'd put it in the "See Circulation Desk" category and have people sign out for them. When I was a child I saw a movie about Che' Guevara and went mad at the Uni library near home over things like Mao's "Little Red Book" and "The Anarchist's Cookbook." The books weren't on the shelves, there were blocks of wood in their places with a note as described above and you had to take the block to them then sign a special card to check them out. Heh... 10 years lalter I went through a security clearance check and sure enough the checking out of those books turned up. So yeah... keep them in libraries and monitor their circulation.
Re: The Hubbard Virus They actually put Flubbard's books behind the desk at a branch college here in NM. The head librarian was a friend of mine and told me that some people complained about it so much he took them off the shelves. He said he would let people check them out if they were interested. Nobody was. Good post, Michael. Yeah, the tech needs to go away imo.
Re: The Hubbard Virus This is very accurate. I forgot how crazy it is. It's impossible for a Scientologist to see how trained/brainwashed/indoctrinated they are, until they get away from it. Some Scn's are much more dedicated to following KSW than others. Some are truely fanatics. Perhaps as more Scn's leave, only the really tough Scn's with a dedicated stare in their eye will be left to fight the losing battle to keep Scn working. They've got a planet to save, don't you know. This is why I think it will be a slow decline to Scientology's demise (because they are fighting to the death), unless we get a miracle and they lose their tax exempt status, or the asbestos lawsuits take them under, or DM suddenly leaves with millions of dollars, or something major like that. FFL
Re: The Hubbard Virus This is the part that I do not get. How T F can the American public be so blind to Hubs teaches. Now (I am not German) here in Germany, ask the average Joe on the street, hey do you know about Scientology? Now you might get a yes or a no, but you will deffinately get a C. Everybody knows that it is a cult and that is why they are officially under surveillance. I see the doctrines of Scientology to be very similar to that of the Nazis. Hubby must have read a lot of dritte reich literature before finally deciding on his cults blue print. So why are the Americans so blind to the danger they face, now get this. What would the world have done without Anonfags ? No for real what? Tommy girl and Davey would have been having a field day, Willy would have openly joined the cult and from the outside it would have been hip to be a Scilon.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I don't think it's possible to "erase" the virus of LRH and the tech. That's an unrealistic goal. The more you try and erase something the harder it fights. This why a virus is from my perspective an inappropriate analogy. In addition, LRH didn't present anything "new" with Scientology... almost all of the communication courses and a majority of the mythos were lifted from other authors. I think the best we can do is ensure anyone can google the term and hear both sides of the story and make their own choice as to what helps them sleep at night. (and hopefully not have to pay a dime to believe in something) You may have been burned by the org. The org may be designed to make money. But it still helps people. (in some twisted manner) Reform is needed, and the current corrupt leaders need to pay the piper, but, if they're destroyed most likely something much more sinister would replace them... we can look to history for examples of this. I think your viewpoint of the belief system is slanted and subjective. Your hypothetical description of the future of the world if we "don't stop Scientology" is... at most a fantasy, as much science fiction as one of LRH's stories. You are assuming the religions of the world and governments wouldn't notice what was going on and literally kill / destroy the org. OT8 ... you have repeatedly posted this thread and every time it's shot down. Do you think there is a reason for this? Perhaps you're using you imagination a little to much? Oh wait... you believed in space aliens for years and paid ludicrous amounts to do so. You're into believing in fairy tales.
Re: The Hubbard Virus i think his description of the future is not if "we don't stop scientology" but more "if scientology ruled the world" as a point to say that both Co$ and LRH's tech must go away. I don't think the OP thinks scientology will rule the world someday, or would if there would be no anons. And i think erasing the tech is not unrealistic, at least to the extent only a few nutcases continue to practise it(i.e the freezone).
Re: The Hubbard Virus History would disagree with you. Ideology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Do you agree with OP that his ideas are a "virus"? or just the misconstrued work of a science fiction writer with an ego complex, little to contribute to society other then regurgitating ideas from greater minds and misappropriating philosophical social engineering concepts for personal gain?
Re: The Hubbard Virus I'm going to agree that while I understand the intent, it's alarmist and unrealistic. While yes, IF Scientology could achieve the means it wants to, some of the points listed could be a real reality. But, the true reality is, that won't ever happen, so talking about it in such a manner (like gogogogogogo do something to stop this thing that hasn't happened yet) is a bit pointless. If it were just framed as a "hey, this is a possible scenario", I could accept the concept more, but because it's not framed that way (go re-read it), my opinion is as stated.
Re: The Hubbard Virus after all I've seen and read, there's no doubt in my mind that LRH's big fantasy was to basicly be viewed as the most important guy EVER! to even ask if whether or not he was going for world domination in some manner is a rhetorical question IMO. Little Davey has, in no uncertain terms, made it very clear that he shares this goal, he wants his piece of the pie. I'll tell you what's realistic, we can fuck with that goal at the very least. expose it, ridicule it, roll it up and smoke it. free thinking individuals are obliged to do so...or you're just another bystander alowing evil men to prosper. obliterate it and erase it? nah that would be pointless...what's the point in having a history if we can't learn from it? there's always going to be Ronbots, that damage has already been done, and you can't delete that. what we can try to do is put it in it's rightful place, and make sure that anyone who goes near an .org knows exactly what they're getting themselves into.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Thank you ! I spent quite a while trying to find where that had gone after skeptic quoted it here http://forums.whyweprotest.net/436411-post32/
Re: The Hubbard Virus While the language and tone of this message is unrealistic, I think the message specially coming from an ex is powerful and merits lots of discussion. This point of view is definitely the counter balance to the freezone stance. Thanks Michael for reposting it.
Re: The Hubbard Virus L Ron Hubbard and scientology = 1984. I, too, think the whole damned thing should go but don't think that it ever will.
Re: The Hubbard Virus "Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh.. 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence." - L. Ron Hubbard, Philadelphia Doctorate Course Lectures, No. 20, Formative State of Scientology
Re: The Hubbard Virus Who would have thought it would be possible for the holocaust to happen? But it did. In some insideous way, if scientology was allowed to perpetuate, a hundred years from now, things could be different, especially with scientologists getting into office. The mafia exists to this day and in certain enterprises, they are an integral part of it. We tried to buy a bar some years ago and the only way to get a liquor licence was with payoffs, so it ultimately was a no-go for us. No, I doubt scientology would ever be able to clear the planet, but if allowed to perpetuate, could be a real pain in the ass.
Re: The Hubbard Virus THIS! ^^ but to quote the god of thunder... "We have not come so far or fought so hard to remake the world in our own image. but to stop others from doing the same." - Rayden, Mortal Kombat
Re: The Hubbard Virus ^^^^^^^I second that, due to the fact that a sucker is born every minute, we have our work cut out for us.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I think that, given proper reformation, Scientology could be a viable religion. Certain elements of their beliefs need to be completely excised before this could happen, however: -Hubbard was always right -Only Hubbard was ever right -All other "techs" must be eliminated -"Suppressive Persons" must be destroyed -All medical/psychiatric care other than Scientology is wrong and harmful -KSW -RPF -Fair Game etc. I see nothing particularly wrong about the space opera, the counseling, the emphasis on communication, and the professed "creed" of the Co$. I'll note that many "mainstream religions" contain beliefs that advocate killing people for trivial reasons, but only the most fundamentalist sects come even close to following those elements of their "faith". The same could, in theory, be true of Scientology one day. Not today. Basically, Scientology might be a viable religion if you could cut the Hubbard out of it. As it is right now, it is thoroughly toxic and extremely dangerous.
Re: The Hubbard Virus You describe the freezone here is all. Which still addresses hypothetical engrams with methods they can't explain. I don't believe anything is worthy of salvage, nor can it be reformed into something of value. Except recyclables like paper and shit like that.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I think FreeZone is a valid faith based religion. A majority of the FreeZoners I've spoken to in RL only believe in what they choose to... and aren't forced to accept the whole concept of "Scientology" per the Church of Scientology. Even some of my most headed critics from the FreeZone, the most dedicated don't even believe in the story of Xemu. Regardless if it's logical or not... I believe in a man zombie, the human soul and the holy spirit. What's the difference between that and their belief in engrams? There's no proof in that either. I may not agree with it. But I'd fight to the death for their ability to believe in what they want.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Scientology was not founded as a religion, and is not a religion now. They purposely created the religious "cloaking" years later as a means to evade laws, regulations, and taxes. Also, Hubbard IS $cientology. You cannot separate the two.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Nice godwin. You've already made you point irrelevant. Do you see Scientology making ovens to burn people? Do you see people being rounded up and killed in pits? How fucking dare you relate this to the holocaust you ignorant living piece of shit. Have you ever walked through Auschwitz? Have you? Come back and say that again after you understand what the holocaust was about.
Re: The Hubbard Virus True, it was never intended to be one. But After LRH's death it became one. *shrug*
Re: The Hubbard Virus The human soul and the holy spirit are based on faith while the engram is supposed to be a unit that can be measured. Faith doesn't require proof, you either believe it or not. According to scientology an engram is a physical thing that is right THERE or right THERE. I've just finished a brutal week and a half trying to get freezoners to answer questions on line. Whether it's of interest to you or not here's the results My Take On Freezonery - Ex Scientologist Message Board We are lucky that they are a fragmented and insignificant group that is a sliver on the butt of a minority cult. They don't have the disproportionate power to their size our target has and they probably never will. But don't tell me it's legitimate religion we're talking about. I never said I could measure the existence of an angel.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I don't think it's legitimate... I think it's the start of a new one that has alot of problems... like any other religion. Look at early christianity and the difference between the gnostics and the faith based disciples of Christ. The Sethians. Very similar concept to what you see in Scientology today. I've read enough to understand what FreeZones basic core doctrine is. You're forgetting that every FreeZoner is not made equal, which is a good thing. The meaning of an "Engram" to one FreeZoner can mean something totally different to another. I've heard it can be measured, I've heard it can't. It's all up to someone's personal perception.
Re: The Hubbard Virus scientology is an incomplete "religion" because it preaches that the individual is responsible for his or her own salvation. What a lonely, fearful way to live. Belief in God or the gods or a supreme being is tremendously comforting. Who do scientologists reach out for in the dark night of the soul? They can't even admit to themselves or other cultist that they are having doubts. Sorry to offend atheistfags. There's room for all of us here, right?
Re: The Hubbard Virus I mistook "valid" as "legitimate" then. So in the freezone we have people who kinda sorta think this or that exists and by doing something like this or that something we can't understand is going to happen. That's fine between two consenting freezoners who are OK with delving into their brains based on hypotheticals and maybes, but the minute they turn on the public they are out of bounds.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Very true. and yes, there is always room for another viewpoint. It's a belief system based on fear. That's part of the problem. There is no ultimate salvation aspect.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Wat? 75 trillion years and Xenu and BT are "lifted"? From whom? Who said that thing about the raisins and the dung...
Re: The Hubbard Virus And the engrams .... weigh .... thirty (30).... pounds !! They wuz weighed real good and all specially checked in a 'speriment. Thats 13.6 kg of engrams, great way to lose weight is just get audited!
Re: The Hubbard Virus Indeed. It's like playing with fire and inviting everyone to come play with fire. Nothing good can come of it.
Re: The Hubbard Virus There's a reason they are called Spartans. ...and wear masks. ...and are Marcabian footsoldiers. ...with DC-8 pilot licenses.
Re: The Hubbard Virus I spoke with a FZ at the raid that absolutely believed in the Xenu space opera. And was telling us about colonizing Mars. :flop: However, I'm a firm believer that people have a right to believe in their own minds whatever they want. I'm not in a place to even tell someone what a religion is. If you think about it, that's not even the debate we're all having about Scientology. Whatever sort of "fag" you are, matters not. It's what they do in the "name" of their "religion". Whether that be the way in which tech is applied, or LRH's teachings. Even those that have a problem with the tech itself, are really crying foul about the manner in which the tech forces itself to be applied. Nothing more, nothing less. I come to this conclusion after having melted my brain reading every word of "What Is Scientology". It all sucks.
Re: The Hubbard Virus According to LRH, he wanted to "divine" the nature of man. My question is this: what is the nature of man? And what would be his response to that? It's all swill. He wasn't trying to create an alternative religion, he was trying to create an alternative PSYCHIATRY. Very important difference.
Re: The Hubbard Virus We can see by admissions that LRH's thoughts on "man" and our "nature" were very negative. He thought man was weak and prone to animalistic behavior unless controlled, unless honed through mantras and the understanding of the mind through his methods of self brainwashing.
Re: The Hubbard Virus Yes, LRH was a man that thought modern psychiatry sprang from the finding of Pavlov, rather than Freud. He felt that other "religions" talked about getting to divinity, but didn't give you the steps. Like I said, psychiatry, not religion. Or maybe science in general. Which may explain the medicine thing too. As a spiritual being, man must be able to heal himself, right?!?? :roll: He essentially said that denying true knowledge weakens a society. He was obsessed with the fact that the Romans, with all their military strength and might never found a way to tap the true "potential" of man. Which means he believed that the perfect society blends military conquering, plus a pure spiritual state. In which case explains the way the Church of Scientology takes over things in the manner in which they do. He felt that war and crime are the CAUSES of irrational behavior rather than the result. It's too simplistic. it's the simplistic aspect that makes it so easy to brainwash.
