Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us What I find interesting in this discussion is people are talking about Africa, but no one has mentioned India. India because of the computer outsourcing has a well-heeled professional class and a large population to draw on for "raw meat". The CO$'s idea of "tech" with its combination of science sounding stuff and cosmic overtones would probably go over well with the new "computer wallah" class.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Dammit, I was just going to reply! Ex-scilon moralfag b/tard
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us India also has a celebrity culture, which would appeal to the CoS. You're right, gg. Phew! <3
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us I think realistically, those of us in the beginning kind of knew this wouldn't last long. Unless something major comes out, they will simply die out slowly. The public is well educated about who and what they are. The fact that this past weekend at the UCLA book fair, I heardmand so did other anonsm numerous times over and over again the public telling people at Scientology booths not to by things because they are a cult is a testament to that. Eventually something will happen, and they will be a true shadow of themselves. It may take a long time though.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us You'll stay in this as long as Pfizer keeps giving you awards every month. RIGGED!
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us This is true regarding the young professionals. However the CO$ will not understand and fail to take into consideration the F word. FAMILY. If young Indian professionals are unable to make a spousal choice without the influence of their families, it is unlikely they will get away with being involved in a cult for very long. I've got many Indian friends, even here in the U.S. the long arm of THE FAMILY and strict cultural and religious norms...has reach. There will be some suckers, but your average Kishore or Pantu will NOT be in a cult too long once Mama finds out.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us I had a "frank exchange of views" with a leading Scilon from India on Failbook. Indians are being sold on the notion that "Scientology is compatible with other religions." They approach it as self-help. Also, this is worth noting (see arrow). This doesn't count local versions of Scientology's sites, in other languages, country-specific, etc., nor the front group sites, etc. I wonder if they've got one in Hindi.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Slums2Schools, anyone? And just where do I suspect those Mumbai beneficiaries of Scientology will wind up? In the Sea Org. If they can't breed 'em, they'll just throw the poverty-stricken children into cult slavery instead. You just watch. Nothing is free in Scientology. "We educated you, now you owe us." It's the same pattern seen among Narconon "graduates."
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Yup. Fuck this categorizing crap. Ex-scilon Ex-staff Not-OG moralfag /b/tard
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Yes, they have been active on this Indian citizen journalism site for a while. They get to make up stuff that looks like real news stories about scientologists saving India. http://www.merinews.com It's a shame for the scilons that their articles are hit with dozens of negative ratings whenever they post there. Site allows script kiddies to rate things too easily. A real shame.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us This is true. Automakers are also educated and understand basic human rights.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Yeah I'm sure the exs will be right on that. They'll have it mopped up in no time.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us THIS. if you want a realistic taste of how surviving in Africa is, play Far Cry 2.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us South Africa is the worst place to relocate in the world. Look at the aids statistics. The whole govt believe vitamin can cure aids, which is a drug company conspiracy. They may find a hiding place there, but their believe will further accelerate the dying of raw meats. Indian people who have spare money for Scn will probably know English and how to google. The percentage of people with religion (Hindu), and actively practicing it, will likely be far more than the percentage in Europe and America. That will offer some mind resistance. The compatible-with-all-religion bullshit will not last long as long as many educated people know how to read wikileaks. In contrast, in ROC (Taiwan), it seems that schools aren't to big on second languages. What scn are getting include high school graduates, working in 7/11 type joints (and like many young people, he has a blog in Chinese). People blogged about their surprise after they learn English, and read what is written about Scn on the Internet. The media is absolutely useless, because of censorship and libel laws. Yahoo TW will not hesitate to delete blog articles and Yahoo answers, to "prevent" you from possibly violating the libel, incite hatred laws. They claim that 1 in 400 is a Scientologist, at 50,000. I don't think it's far lower, but they have people paying for service in S. Africa, Mexico, and Sydney.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us You might want to ask John Duignan how most of the governments in Africa feel about scientology, especially Zimbabwe. Maybe things have changed since he was there, but I get the feeling that your life expectancy would be longer if you walked into every pub in N. Ireland singing "God Save the Queen" than trying to set up a large scientology presence in that part of Africa.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Now that you mention India, that reminds me of a business diner I once had with an Indian manufacturer of chemical components for the pharma industry. We had a nice little chat about God and everything. It was really a surprisingly deep conversation. So this head-honcho who also happens to be the boss of this company tells me about his belief in detail. I didn't really understood the name of his religion so I couldn't look it up on the Internet later. Basically they believe in something that is very similar to Scifaggotry. They tread children pretty much like grown-ups but I are still kind to them. In fact they value life so much, they even feel bad about killing germs. Their monchs even try to sustain themselves on almost nothing. Also they have this holy book that is supposed to predate the bible by over 9000 years. They also say that in this book are depictions of huge cities with skyscrapers. I am not sure if he also mentioned TV or computer screens. But they had airplane like machines. I can't rember what the reason for the downfall of this ancient civilization was supposed to be, not that it matters much now. Quite interestingly, I read about similar findings in a popular knowledge magazine that there are some relics that could depict modern machines and applications. A similar article was also written in the german equivalent to the SUN. And there was a website which also wrote about these things, explaining I think what was true and what was false. So it's all very questionable. Still I like to keep an open mind about these things. Anyway, I am just bringing this up, to illustrate how easily Scientology could actually connect to other religions (in India). Or pose as one of the existing.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us When you're considering Co$'s 'foreign options' it's worth bearing in mind that OVER HALF of all it's sales come from Flag. With the present situation, this ratio will likely have increased further, as new recruitment must be at a near standstill. Donations (proper) and front groups (Narconon in particular), must now make up it's only real sources of new income. Without these, it'll burn through it's reserves in short order. This last bit is pure speculation, but it wouldn't suprise me in the least if the Church's overall capital base is far far less than it should be. David Miscavige has made atrocious decisions in almost every area of his management, including finance. So it's by no means beyond the realms of possibility that much of the capital has been eaten up in disasterous investments. Of course - like everything else - this will have been covered up to all but a few. Who knows? Time will tell I guess.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us I totally agree with the thesis of the OP. COS's ONLY hope is to outlast the protesters. I was just thinking the same thing this weekend, actually. HOWEVER, this may be their only hope, but I'm not sure it's much. What they have going for them is slave labor that has no signs of leaving en masse. Seeing the Sea Org members in Hollywood this weekend--it's the same people, and there are hundreds of them. If they can survive this period by turtling under, feeding and housing their staff for however long it takes, and holding on to most of their neglected properties, there might be hope for them to re-emerge in a few years. The down side would be if they couldn't afford the expenses, such as propety taxes, utilities, etc. Also, the lawsuits could definitely push the whole thing off the cliff. If they have to start paying minimum wage to their Staff, I think it's all over. That's more money than Tom Cruise, John Travolta and Nancy Cartwright can cough up. TL;DR we are winning. -income -expenses(from lawsuits etc) = the end for COS
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us You do know that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom? Jainism.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us The Anonymous protestors are less relevant at this point because the internet community has become aware of the facts about scientology. Even in early 2008, a number of Anons created cells for intelligence gathering and operations against scientology. If the protests ceased, coverts ops against scientology would continue, perhaps even greatly increase because more Anons would join in. Still, the longer the protests last, the more irreparable damage will be done to organized scientology.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us The holy book you mention is the Mahabharata. It is a kickass story of the war between members of the Bharata dynasty which is ends in a tremendous world-shaking battle. The whole thing is like a cross between the Bible, the Iliad, a Scottish clan war, and a major soap opera. There are demons, people in flying war battleship type things, woman who give birth to a hundred sons at once, women who sleep with Gods, men who sleep with demons and a savant who is so holy he can suck the milk out of a pail of mixed water and milk with his penis . One of the very male heroes spends a year as a transvestite dancer. There is a fish who eats a leaf with semen on it and gives birth to a beautiful woman. I could go on, it's wonderful stuff. Try reading the translation by William Buck. The BBC also did a DVD series that is gives you an idea of what goes on.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Agreed. A lot of people have been informed, but a lot of other people still need to be informed though. I facepalm whenever I hear about idiots in state government who didn't lrn2google and end up giving taxpayers' money to garbage like Applied Scholastics and Narconon. Protests, email harpoons, YFTCs, hell even just mentioning the crazy scilons to a friend, keep up all of this and keep an eye out for the scilons shitting out more front groups to keep their little shell game going. They won't last, at least not in their present form. If they really do relocate to South Africa or something they might be safer (doubtful) but they will definitely take a huge hit to their income especially if they can't host dinners for celeb scitards to throw away their millions of dollars (Nancy Cartwright anyone?).
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us You do know that Northern Ireland still has much hate for the Royalists, right?
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Actually, most people don't really give a shit about politics and just want to get on with their lives. but this is pointless and nothing to do with the thread. We'll be trolling scientology for as long as there is an internet for us to troll on.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us This is relevant. It also totally contradicts what I said before regarding donation of 50 copies, blah blah, don't mind me, I'm stupid can't remember exact or even close to enough details to stuff I read almost a month earlier. x_x Scientology Organizations Around the World
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Lots of great comments and some great finds here! I haven't unfucked myself and gone back to raiding yet because wiping co$ out in the US and Europe while they infect Asia and Africa is not my goal. I want Co$ so eradicated it's just smallpox in a safe in Geneva. That requires raiding AND discussing. $cn resembles the canny, adaptable tobacco companies and not the lumbering, rusting car industry. The car industry can BAWWW for govt. money because they'll get it. The tobacco industry can't. Once tobacco companies realized they could neither bury the the health data nor prevail in litigation, they ensured they could remain in business regardless of whether they ever sold another cigarette in the USA. They succeeded. The fact that some Americans still buy cigs is just a bonus for them. That's the reason for my OP. The issue of a Scn retreat to a failed state needs to be on the table. India is a great point; at the moment I'm somewhat more concerned about Scilon recruitment of educated Indians who are thousands of miles away from their families (lonely) and living in cultures that in don't much resemble their own (alienated). People in that situation are inherently more vulnerable to any cult than are Indians in India. Since my experience with Indians has been similar to what BigButterJesus mentions in his post, I'm not too worried about recruitment of Indians abroad. And in India, if Scn really got going, the Indian government would probably behave more like a European government. The US is really a special situation for $cn. This is pretty much the definition of a failed state. Hence the concern. I said Africa specifically because they're devoting time and attention to South Africa, and because there are so many failed states in Africa. Asia, too, is at risk. ( I will contact John Duignan about Zimbabwe, thanks Modern Marvels.) After the takeover of a failed state, Scientologists will be the ones who decide what's legal, so a retreat there might even look like the fulfillment a Hubbard prophecy. (Worth noting that bin Laden was thrown out of the Sudan with very little money remaining and still had his way with Afghanistan.) I have been to Africa and have a little understanding of what it's like. My assumption is that Miscavige would prefer anything to prison (could be wrong). Someone with money to build a giant compound with generators, roads, planes, etc, while forcing everyone else to live in squalor could manage fine, IMHO. That's pretty much the way it is in Hemet right now, anyway. Lack of infrastructure isn't insurmountable problem for co$. Very helpful that someone posted over half of the sales come from FLAG-- is there any way to find out how reliable that data is? Seems reasonable, given that's where the big rollers go to spend weeks for courses, but more info to evaluate revenue from sales in Co$'s big picture would be helpful. A big strength of the anti-Co$ movement is that so very many kinds of people feel they can get involved. (Although that might be driven by the fact that cult officials offend so many kinds of people.) Every kind of protester plays a valuable role, and I'm always shocked when people say exes aren't doing enough. Not everyone is as resilient as, to name just 4 members of a growing group, Gerry Armstrong, Maureen Bolstad, Michael Pattinson, or Marc Headley. They're brave, exceptional people, and knocking on others for not being as tough as those 4 is like yelling at a physics professor because he's not as smart as Einstein. Protests would be valuable even if all they did was disrupt a single org on a single day. They have impact far beyond that, though, and I believe it's essential to continue them. Here's what I see: some lawsuits with MAJOR potential; a great start for Anon; Ida Camburn, Andreas, Larry, Graham, Barb, Dave Touretzky, Arnie Lerma, et al. hanging WAY tough after decades; covert activities that could do a lot of damage to the Cult; greater public awareness; and a very dangerous religiously cloaked cult that has survived a lot of death blows and can watch and wait and wait and wait.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Sounds a bit like Jainism to me. Still, that whole "shattering suppression" bit would fly like a lead balloon with Jainists. Also, they have the highest rate of literacy of any religious group in India, so that works against the Co$. inb4someonementionsMythBusters
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us I've stated elsewhere that Scientology was already dying of the cancer named David Miscavige. Anonymous is just the viral infection that's attacking its weakened immune system. Scientology cannot survive the 21st century as long as we have an Internet for people to gather and share information on. They could flee to less connected countries, but countries without access to the Internet are inevitably impoverished ones, and not sufficient sources of income for the lifestyle to which David Miscavige has become accustomed. Unless they adapt to the 21st Century (which they're pretty much incapable of doing in their present form) they're doomed. Not that we should take that as an excuse to slack off. I want to see them collapse in my lifetime, which is why I'm still here.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us This will probably sound stupid, but that's never stopped me from saying anything before. This whole Anon vs. OG/Ex thing is bullshit. That's like asking what is more important in making a wonderful sandwich: Choosing the right bread of a perfect denseness, flavor, and thickness, or choosing a flavoring that works in perfect concert with the bread? Bread without a filling is not a sandwich, and filling without bread is not a sandwich. And I must say, that over the last 14-15 months, this sandwich has tasted like epic win.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Agreed. Just because the animal looks mortally wounded, doesn't mean one shouldn't stick around a little longer to make sure it never gets back up.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Scientology is a corporation cloaked religion (if we want to go further, criminal org cloaked corporation, cloaked religion). Multinational corporations are quite able to remain alive despite powerful opposition. And money keeps Scientology going. It may take years before Scientology begins loosing profits, but as our declaration of lulz against Scientology stated: we are aware that this will not occur in any short time. Scientology has many strengths: 1) Rich, still rich, still making profits from donations and its rich followers. 2) Cheap labor. Many work for Scientology's services for pennies (Sea Org, RPF, etc...) in order to cover classes, thus it can pay less to maintain itself. 3) PR: Though Tommy Davis fails in many ways, it still has other PR officers and lawyers that put on a good show. Granted, their PR power is damaged pretty badly with the general public, but maybe a lot less with government officials who are less informed and more ignorant (or easily convinced of bullshit). However, we are experimenting with striking heavier blows: 1) We are trying petitions. Only two have been tried to my knowledge. One in Texas that initially succeeded. Another to a congressman, which he didn't seem to read or either that or our argument stills needs work. But we're getting them out there and getting our government's attention, one bit a a time. At least we know they are recognized. 2) We have successfully reached representatives, however. So that is a good sign. It shows we are capable of communicating with them and giving them valuable information. I believe it was that representative who was initially about to support and attend a CCHR convention, but we quickly pooned that and it succeeded. 3) Internet coverage in many places and forms. Many is supportive. Criticism of Scientology is recognized in the mainstream, again. 4) We're finding other ways to reach the public. Crashing that Tea Party got us recognition here in Chicago, also supportive. If we keep finding new ways and work on things we know work, we have a chance to bring Scientology's end closer.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Thanks for the info. Looking forward to digging into this once I got a little time to spare. I totally agreed and support. Way to go anons. Let's show them what it means when the gloves come off. Brass knuckles, anyone?
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us There is no doubt this is a war of attrition and it will be a long one. We've put Co$ on a starvation diet and just as with any diet the bulk of the weight is lost in the first few weeks, in Co$ case the first 12 months. We're going to see many more wins but we need to step up the game, learning from experiences like Nashville for instance; we should check what permits they have applied for and the conditions of those permits when raiding an event they have organised. It's understandably a move we've not considered before but 20/20 hindsight says had we known about the side walk closure and the expiry dates things could have been handled differently. In certain cases we need to get better pre raid intel and planning, which I am sure we will. I like the Nashville Anons follow up actions though, we don't just let things happen we kick back. Will scientology out last the campaigns against the church of scientology? Quite possibly, as the OP suggested destroying a belief system once it has survived its founder is very difficult but that isn't the over goal. The main goal, the one we're likely to succeed in, is dismantling the church of scientology in its current form, which we are doing systematically. There are independent scientologists and Freezoners and personally I don't care about them. What I care about is the organisation, the church of scientology, and its corrupt and dangerous nature. It needs to be exposed, put under the microscope and dissected. People need to be inoculated against it and the environment in which it operates rendered toxic to it. The African continent is definitely an area in need of greater Anonymous penetration. There are some pretty dodgy countries in that region although the cult is likely to suffer some culture shock when they try to muscle in. The problem the cult has is it still needs lots of financial resources. From our point of view the worst thing that could happen is it settles in some resource rich country and starts raping it; using local labour as slaves to mine minerals or farm the land for the cult's profit. P.S. Bin Laden does not have his way in Afghanistan, he is just a figure head for an Ideology (Extreme Islam). He does not run the Taliban, he's more of a celebrity to them. Interestingly many of the dynamics of the so called Al-Qaeda are similar to the dynamics of Anonymous, they are many autonomous cells sharing a common goal. Indeed some say Al-Qaeda doesn't exist, just the ideology and that Al-Qaeda was just the name of a small cell that the west picked up to make out like there is a super big very dangerous terrorist organisation, but I digress....
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us I am inclined to agree for the most part, that this is truly the intent of Co$, to circle their wagons and try and keep their cash-cattle and slave population as far from the realities of life as possible to continue to reap the financial gains. Scilon 'hide and wait it out' tech imho. (mingled with their usual 'lashing out tech' by the herders when they figure it won't be too noticed) But there be a bigger storm coming. Yes, its victims fighting back, for their sanity and their ill-spent monies. But moar than this is the fact that the truths are out there, and moar coming all the time, there is no stopping this signal any more. The age of information and awareness spread through the Internet and media is not only making a massive laughing stock of Lron's massive scam, but I think is turning Co$ into the true Pariah that it is. The big snakes in this nest of vipers are eating their own at an ever increasing rate, taking every last liberty they can before they 'go to ground'. They are without a doubt their own worst enemies, but, heck, thats what happens when you try to re-write history and create and alternative, abberated, reality. Might have worked many years ago, but I think (and hope) it will not nao. Evening blather, I go nao.
Re: The Cult's Best Hope is to Outlast Us Yes, whether the concept of al-Qaeda was deliberately tainted for political reasons is a very good question. No one said that bin Laden ran the Afghan government. The point is that failed states often become hosts to virulent people; bin Laden exemplifies that. His native country won't even have him. We can't say that about Miscavige. No matter who did al-Qaeda's thinking, without bin Laden they weren't a serious threat.
