The Antifa thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. The Internet Member

    I agree. In fact I think we should put some lines around politics like lines around a tennis court. That way we can say, "that's not politics; that's out of bounds."

    Crime shouldn't be politics. It shouldn't be dignified with "left" or "right." It should just be crime.

  2. T .. Do you seriously think that "Any" government could give a fuck when it comes down to the "population control" factor?

    I.e .. The Anti Vietnam War Protests / Kent State. The brutalization of protesters by the then National Guard & the police.

    Nothing has changed.

    Peaceful Protests - How's that working out for you?

  3. bs
  4. White Tara Global Moderator

    Penny, I am genuinely interested in the answer to this question.

  5. Penny are you visiting this planet on a learning program or what?
    Dude seriously you're way off base and more than a little out of your depth.
    Get back on that spaceship of yours and return to whatever batshit crazy place you originate from.
  6. The Internet Member

    The Reichstag fire (German: Reichstagsbrand, 11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png listen (help·info)) was an arson attack on the Reichstag building (home of the German parliament) in Berlin on 27 February 1933, just one month after Adolf Hitler had been sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. The Nazis stated that Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch anti-fascist activist, was found near the building. The Nazis publicly blamed the fire on communist agitators in general, although in a German court in 1933, it was decided that Van Der Lubbe had acted alone, as he claimed to have done. After the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed. The fire was used as evidence by the Nazi Party that communists were plotting against the German government. The event is seen as pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.
  7. White Tara Global Moderator

    Calle I disagree, I am as curious about the think behind 'antifa' as I am about the think behind alt right. Penny has come back and represented himself/herself as a member of that group, so he/she has something to offer this thread. I would like to hear what is behind it. Yes, it would be more helpful if it was a discussion more than a memefest and No U back and forth.

    Penny in answer to your question. The germination of wwp was Chanology, kicked off by a certain video being censored.. Like him or not Wise Beard man schooled anons in the benefits of sticking to legal and peaceful means of protest in the taking down of Scientology. All these years later, the results seem to suggest this long haul tactic has been invaluable in keeping up a sustained erosion of Scientology.

    I guess an attitude of this is a marathon rather than a sprint, has seen anons protected largely from being silenced by the law. In return this has seen the PR war won by anonymous. The general public perception of Scientologists is fairly dim, while anons are considered a little offbeat, but reasonable in the anti Scientology position held. Has anonymous's legal and peaceful activity had a hand in that? I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    Now granted the stakes are higher in countering the rise of fascism, but IMO better to not flame out quickly and be sidelined by making yourself unpalatable to the general public, which is what violence and breaking the law gets you.

    Again, the answer to extremism, is not extremism.

    EDIT: I am asking for discussions, provisionally of course, that it remains understood wwp requires, we do not descend into promotion of illegal or violent acts.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Don't hang around folks Penny will return with more rhetoric as soon as he finds some!

    Your questions Tara will of course go unanswered due to Penny's inability to understand your question.

    Penny is similar in many ways to Trump in that he shouts a lot but has nothing to say of any real substance.

  9. The Internet Member

    Example of a right-wing op in the recent past that reminds me of Antifa:
    So Penny, please think twice about your position. You say, "Peaceful Protests - How's that working out for you?" implying that violence is the only way to bring about positive social change. But there is a chance that you are being provoked into violence in order to discredit "the left."
    • Like Like x 2
  10. The Internet Member

    Trump indicated that he wanted to cut Federal funds to UC Berkeley after the "Free Speech" event in February. You can see the framing of higher education as places of leftist indoctrination in this vid:

    If Antifa would stop with the violence, maybe higher education in this country will remain relatively independent of political control.
  11. The Internet Member

    Interesting point about boomers being free speech absolutists and millennials who think free speech absolutism means they have to put up with on-line doxing, threats, and harassment.

    I have to say, I used to be an absolutist. I used to say, the cure for bad speech is more speech. But now it's obvious to me that the truth can be spammed into submission. And having followed people who have lived through long periods of on-line doxing, threats, and reputation damaging campaigns, I do feel there needs to be a limit on this kind of thing somehow.

    The way I would solve the free speech paradox: establish forums where speech is bounded by certain rules while leaving all the other forums where people talk crazy shit alone. Over time people will turn to the rule-bound forum when they want to hear legit info.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. White Tara Global Moderator

    Yeah this is scary stuff, because traditionally institutions of higher learning are places that encourage independent thinking. Its here we have the educated youth of the world prepared to vocalize opinions that would counter fascism. If places like these are shut down as hubs of free speech, because of violent actors/acts then we are lost.

    Trump would have all protests across the board made illegal if he could swing it. Since that whole 1st amendment thing CURRENTLY stops that happening wholesale, hes left with tinkering around the edges. The one thing I know of University management is if you threaten their funding, they say ouch very loudly, this is not good :(

    EDIT: Trumps a fucking bully, hes deploying the same tactic to hold the NFL to ransom over the kneel down protests. Economic bullying is still bullying /minor trump rant/derail

  13. VEg38i9.jpg

  14. Don't know why you say that the op you described reminds you of antifa.

    The dirty tricks campaigns and false flag ops are, and have been for as long as I can recall, the almost exclusive modus operandi of the right and the far right. Nazi ideology and tactics have been accommodated within Conservative political parties and governments as far back, at the very least, to the UK General Strike of 1926, and in more recent times, the UK miner's strike of 1984-5

    But the main thrust of your argument - that the right uses such tactics as a matter of routine - is borne out by an extensive history that needs to be taken seriously and the lessons learned.

    One of the most important of these is to realise that it is a propaganda war being fought constantly, and the right holds most of the cards.

    Another is that it is next to impossible to prevent an extremist government from finding or manufacturing the pretext for whatever purpose they choose.

    But, unlike previous generations, we have the power to counter faked images and false accounts, quite literally in our hands.

    And there are more of us than them.
  15. I'll just leave this here

  16. The Internet Member

    That's pretend. This is IRL.

    Peter Cvjetanovic.jpg

    Pretend and IRL are different. Or at least they used to be different.
  17. The Internet Member

    Wait I don't want to defend Anonymous. Plenty of Anonymous ops have been disturbing, like the flashing gifs posted to epilepsy forums meant to trigger seizures. But there's a combo of awful + pretend that sometimes is pretty fucking funny. But not if real life. I'm not gonna call someone's mom a cunt IRL. That's obvious, right?

    Alt right guys IRL flashing white supremacist memes and giggling like they just pwned some uppity moralfags do not seem grounded in reality. In interviews they're like, "Wait I'm not a Nazi," even though they're on video chanting "Blood and Soil" and "Jew will not replace us."

    The planner fags who believed in "Anonymous the hero" also seemed confused about pretend and IRL. I suppose I hate these people less than the "Anonymous the Nazi" types.
  18. The Internet Member

    Antifa indulge in street violence. Violence justifies authoritarianism. So Antifa's efforts undermine the political left while strengthening the political right. Ergo, the political right have a hand in Antifa somehow. They'd be fools not to.
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Clearly stated and a sound analysis, TI.
  20. So far so good, agreed

    Now this claim requires evidence

  21. you are cute
  22. The Internet Member

    • Like Like x 1
  23. Even for youtube in adult mode real facsicm is too much:

  24. I'm the prettiest girl in town
  25. Welcome onboard by the way

  26. Oh I have been around for quite a while, but thanks :)

  27. Jeezuz I miss Shaw.
  28. The Internet Member

    Hey nobody punched the Nazis at Berkeley. Consequently Milo did not get to play the victim. Also he revealed that he had little to say as he left after 15 minutes.

    In this vid someone interviews a guy in a MAGA hat bullbaiting peaceful protesters. But he also had nothing to say.

    In conclusion: punching Nazis = losing the PR game. Letting Nazis speak = winning because they footbullet harder than Scientologists.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. The Internet Member

    Also I want to say that a lot of 20 somethings who get interested in white supremacy are more confused than Nazi. I myself was hurr durr during those years. Confused people can learn info that fixes a lot of wrong ideas in their heads. But learning won't happen if you don't give people a chance to be openly stupid and wrong.

    But I do draw the line with public figures spreading nonsense because politicians and experts have a duty to get their facts right before they speak with authority.

    When I talk to white supremacists on line I compliment them on their respect for western civilization and scientific achievement. Then I note that hardly any leading scientists, award winning authors, or celebrated composers are white supremacists. In fact racist beliefs correlate inversely with education level. Then I recommend, "Guns, Germs, and Steel," which shows that geographic areas of cultural exchange have enjoyed more rapid technical advancement. So segregation and hard borders will result in a slower and dumber US. The Nazis stop lols and get kinda quiet.
    • Like Like x 1

  30. I'm not sure that it's fair to compare Milo fans to Nazis, the guy is a complete troll with little of value to provide, but I highly doubt that he is a white supremacist. Throwing these words around at people you disagree with is how a bunch of people end up getting beaten up for no good reason.


  31. It's really hard to watch a show named after a group that propagated the armenian genocide while they call everyone else nazis......
  32. White Tara Global Moderator

  33. The Internet Member

    Nobody living today had anything to do with the Armenian genocide. Plus why should the Ottoman administration prior to the republican movements that followed be allowed off the hook? They were hard on the Armenians as well.

    "Nazi" gets used pretty loosely because it has a lulzy side. So we probably should clarify what "Nazi" means when we're doing more than hyperbole.

    I don't know if this is correct or not but I think of "Nazi" as political activism aimed at racial segregation on the basis of pseudoscience ideas about the nature of human racial differences.
  34. The Internet Member

    I'm not saying "shadowy right wing groups." I'm saying there are lots of examples of people on the right making fake or parody Antifa web sites. These sites say it is acceptable to punch "fascists" or "Nazis."

    Stories on the fake Antifa web sites get picked up by right wing media who report the info as if it's real, thus amplifying the image of crazy "left wing extremists."

    I think one of the two links I gave mention something about the right wing media spreading the fake Antifa stories. If not I can google that up for you.
  35. The Internet Member
    Lol, baseball is a "white man's game." Anybody saying something like this is going to be as popular as herpes. Because Mom, apple pie, AND baseball.
  36. I know actual people who are as left as can be who really got behind the punch a nazi narrative quite eagerly. Burying your head in hte sand while pretending they don't exist is just as harmful as pretending anyone who disagrees with something within chanology is OSA

  37. zorrononolapatateassaul-jpg.98126.jpg

  38. The Internet Member

    At one point there were several Chanologists creating fake Scientologist Facebook pages. Similarly, today there are a lot of right wing people creating fake Antifa web sites. Boston Antifa is one of those fake sites. That is not hard to understand, eh?

    I started this thread to tell Antifa that explicitly or implicitly condoning violent protests is counter productive. Once the door is open a crack to violence a range of unpleasant people --including Antifa's enemies and sociopaths who just like to break stuff-- are bound to join in the fun.

    There are sincere people who self-identify as Antifa out there. I wish one of them would show up here to answer questions.

    There's a twitter account by Antifa noting "fake Antifa" twitter accounts. Some are obvious parody but some get called out for more subtle distinctions, like a slightly more distasteful representation of anti-Nazi violence. That's my point --without a clear anti-violence policy the line between between real and fake Antifa melts away.
  39. If the line between real and fake Antifa melts away it can suit both sides when violence occurs leaving each to blame the other.
  40. The Internet Member

    No the "Antifa" brand is fucked if someone who looks like or claims to be Antifa seriously injures or kills someone. You would have to prove that an agent provocateur working for the far right did the crime to get Antifa off the hook.
  41. The Internet Member

    Penny and other lefties like him argue that non-violent protests historically were not effective. Only after militant groups demonstrated a willingness to use violence against perceived oppressors did political change come about.

    But I think it is more likely that violence and riots slowed the pace of social change. Because real change happens when the hearts and minds of ordinary citizens are drawn toward one side or the other. And I know as well as I know anything that ordinary citizens fucking hate to see violence and property destruction in their streets.

    Where do we see people changing their beliefs and behavior over short periods of time? In our science-based professions. For decades women were encouraged to take estrogen after menopause to slow the aging of their bones. Then some big studies were done showing that post-menopausal estrogen does more harm than good and suddenly doctors stop the routine prescribing of Premarin.

    Science-based professions change fast and they are also the least violent parts of our society. Peer reviewed papers don't even have insults or "your mom" jokes in them.
  42. The Internet Member

    If violence during protests is counter-productive, why do some people on the left still promote the idea that some broken windows and punching helps their cause?

    I just saw this: Antifa went to the Juggalos hoping to make friends. They even stood around puddles so the Juggalos wouldn't accidentally step in them. But guess what: the Juggalos did not want to hang out with Antifa due to the whole punchy violence business.

    Maybe if enough people keep telling Antifa that nobody wants violence they will eventually catch on.
  43. The Internet Member

    This vid covers the Antifa issue by putting it into a broader context. Context is hard to fit into forum posts --note that this Cracked vid is over 20 minutes long.

    Cody makes the point that Antifa protesters do some violence which is counter-productive. But most people who show up to protest far right extremists aren't violent. Reporters should give more attention to these non-violent protesters and the basis of their criticisms. By focusing too much on Antifa they smear and de-legitimize the issues the protesters hope to raise. Further, the focus on Antifa is being used to pass legislation that will make protesting much more dangerous for everyone.

    So now that we all agree that punching Nazis is counter-productive, maybe we can turn our attention to the problem of over-reaction to Antifa, which is being used by politicians and their wealthy backers to shut down public protests.

    Published on Sep 30, 2017

    Some news this week: Antifa is in the headlines again? But what is antifa stand for exactly? Are they against fascism as their name implies? Or are they a wildly misconstrued group of protesters that the right-wing media loves to paint as a bunch of free speech hating jerks? Newsperson Cody explains.
  44. I feel like I just fell down the jewtube rabbit butt hole and came out in to a magical world of bolshevik trash rats that have self appointed themselves the saviors of fascist national socialism by instituting fascist communism that was responsible for over 100 million deaths world wide.

    Is this even for real?

    Do people know what nazi means?

    They clearly do not know antifa was a paramilitary group used to create civil war in Germany prior to the war starting and was found to be a jewish bolshevik front group from the USSR that was responsible for over 60 million murders. The jewish bolsheviks used propaganda and antifa groups to murder German people and burn their businesses while calling them nazi before the nazi party existed because Jewry declared war on Germany years before the war started. When Germany brought the army in to remove the antifa groups, they found them to be all jewish and realize they were being setup for civil war.

    Upon trying to expel them, the ashke'nazi media went on tirade about nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi and yet the nazi party was still not formed. The irony that Hitler was jewish, married to a jewish woman, had a jewish mistress, his best friend was jewish and he pushed for an agenda that only helped the jews in the long term.

    The plaque commemorating the war in Israel has been changed multiple times to reflect the proper confirmed numbers of dead. Most died from lice and starvation in the camps after the supply routes were purposely cut off. They were in camps because they were openly murdering German people. Again, this is BEFORE the party was formed. Now you get to where the party was formed and used the term nazi that the jewish had been using as propaganda against Germany for years before the war began. This is where 350k jewish were murdered in camps and the top generals of the German bund were found to be Ashke'nazi. Just as the top generals of Stalins gulags and holodomor were also jewish.

    This was a very organized plan and after the war, many prominent jewish figure were quoting saying the war was a step to creating a state for the Jews and a future dominance of jews world wide.

    You now have Antifa attacking europeans again and calling them nazi before any nazi party exists and suddenly we have the news and alt news pushing national socialism so that they can call them nazi and try to kill them again. Read the Kalergi plan and the protocols of zion. Antifa is a terrorist organization run by inbred jews who have a hard on for genocide of europeans.

    We know they ran the global slave trade and have been blaming europeans for that too.

    Is anyone here even literate enough to read a book or do they get their information from bolshevik re-education camps called public schools, the same ones used on the natives by the british that were led by the house of windsor, jews.
    • Like Like x 1
  45. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Antifa =20 teens with Oppositional Defiant Disorder
  46. Fuck off you spammy cunt
  47. Spam !
    A fuck ton of it .
  48. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Christmas break

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