Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Aug 30, 2017.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dude, if only you fucking knew.
Looky looky its AOTF back for another bite of the cherry and looking as much like a retard as always.
AOTF has returned in full retard mode.
Oh Dear, delusional too. Tell me, how in the fuck did you even manage to "sully" this place with your Alt-Right Nazi stink? You're nothing more than a fucking low life Nazi scumbag inhabiting our home. You're not an Anon, you're a fucktard Nazi sock. GTFO and fuck off back to your low life pond scum #4channazi /pol/
Hey Penny, there are alt right people dressed in black pretending to be Antifa showing up at protests. They attack people who might be right wing but who aren't fascists.
Since you are defending Antifa you are also defending these guys. What is your plan for that?
The Internet here we have a classic case of someone jumping on the bandwagon without giving much thought to what or who else is on it
Don't expect a logical answer from Penny or his guy because his entire rationale has jumped out of the window alongside the rest of his ideology.
No thought no sense .
The answer to extremism, is never extremism. IMHO that is true everywhere, but most especially on wwp, Legal, and peaceful stuff only, Please and thank you.
People with experience getting white supremacists to leave their cults say violence toward them is counter-productive. These cults prey on lonely, vulnerable young guys wanting to belong to something. Demonizing them and bashing them reinforces their feeling of alienation. It's better to engage with them using hope, reason, and education.
Russian and US oligarchs are encouraging extremist on extremist action within US politics because they've learned that this method is an effective way to sabotage democracy.
Dude the only person here promoting Nazi Alt Right shit in here is yourself .
Also *our home* ? Just who the living fuck do you think you are?
Take your Nazi loving self and DIAF.
This vid, "Patriot Prayer Event in Vancouver Ends Again With Violence" is on the Southern Poverty Law Center's channel. I expected to see Alt-Right guys behaving badly. Instead I see a handful of guys associated with the Alt-Right (although not promoting white supremacy) giving brief speeches about anti-Trump hysteria driving some to violence.
On the other side I see a large group of protesters, many dressed in black with their faces covered and some with Antifa flags and symbols. These protesters chant the usual stuff accusing the other guys of being Nazis and fascists. Also, "Throw the fascists in the river!" The menacing behavior largely arises from this group.
tl;dr: This video makes the Alt-Right look good.
Early in Chanology there were people who wanted to fuck with individual Scientologists. But they got trolled by people like Herro who argued that we were hypocrites for wanting to fair game them like the Scientologists fair game critics.
The people I see supporting Antifa in this video seem sincere. They are trying to do the right thing. But they haven't thought things through. Shouting down and mobbing alt right speakers at a rally validates everything these guys are saying about "the left" behaving like the Taliban.
Where are the Herros of Antifa? They seem to be sleeping on the job.
The links above should serve as a quick reference to the events of 1936 in the UK, when Oswald Mosley and his Blackshirts attempted to march through a largely Jewish area in London, only to be met by a 20,000-strong group of anti-fascists - a loosely-organised band of ordinary working people, Communists, socialists and others.
Especially noteworthy are the parallels between Mosley's anti-democratic, anti-Semitic, corporatist, isolationist, 'The Greater Britain' political agenda, (in imitation of both Mussolini and Hitler, with whom his family had close ties) and the Trump populist, isolationist, MAGA, 'drain the swamp', far-right presidential campaign.
The Battle of Cable Street may have come at a crucial time in the volatile depression-era atmosphere, as it spurred the government into action to pass laws, first banning the wearing of political uniforms, and ultimately proscribing Mosley's 'British Union of Fascists and National Socialists'.
The parallels end there. Mosley was interned, then went into self-imposed exile in France, where he ended his days - but not before returning briefly to stand as an MP in 1959, on an anti-immigration platform, calling for forced repatriation of immigrants as well as a prohibition upon mixed marriages.
The USA elected Donald Trump.
Adding missing info given by other police officers. And don't think this is basically different in your country.
"Penny" is just one dyed in the wool fuckwit swept away by the idea of doing something, anything, that allows him a voice and the illusion of doing something he thinks is worthwhile.
Unfortunately Penny has no direction and appears both deluded and misguided in his choice of words here in this forum.
His day of reckoning will surely come sooner than he thinks when he discovers what a giant tit he's making of himself.
Good luck in your endeavours Penny, you'll need it when you fall on your arse.
A.O.T.F. is a pretty nice guy. He can learn and modify his views same as most people.
Conversations where people disagree usually teach me a lot more than conversations where everybody is like, "We are right and let's feel awesome together!"
We know how to protest with cake and winning. We should invite Antifa to come here for some tips.
That is only part of the story:
Good find, Ann.
As the documentary narrator points out, ordinary people were not in love with the British capitalist system, the government of the day, nor the anti-Semitism of the British Establishment (the upper class and the industrial bosses), nor with the British Empire.
But they knew that there was something much worse happening in Europe which they were willing to fight against - the criminal thuggery and perpetual domestic terrorism of the Fascist powers and the brutish rise of the Nazis.
Set against the horrors of mass-murder and enslavement, the relatively piecemeal suppression of political dissent and workers rights for decades afterwards - to which I take it you were referring - while bad enough, was still to be preferred, given the choice.
Interesting video. I especially liked the last part from about 35:00 where the speaker makes a point about how the past is appropriated to explain the present, not always successfully.
The Jewish immigrants and the communist labor organizers of 1936 were long gone when the mural representing the Cable Street battle was commissioned in the late 1970s. In the '70s the neighborhood was notable for tensions between a Bangledeshi migrant population and a UK government with discriminating immigration and housing policies. A "weak fascism" was present in the form of National Front hoodlums who would vandalize the mural from time to time. Seems the completed work was received with more of a shrug than its creators had hoped.
I like the mural. The horse head is a nice nod to Picasso and that old WPA Diego Rivera style, when artfully done, is warming. Nothing ground-breaking there but it's some quality street art.
Whoever the Alt-right are, they aren't exactly Mosley or Hitler.* Maybe if Ann Coulter and Trollface.jpg had children --and then abandoned those children to be raised by everyone's racist grandparents or uncles-- that would result in something akin to the Alt-Right tribe.
Sadly because stupid president and oligarchs promoting extremism in the US we have to take these crackpots seriously. We must challenge and defeat them within the realm of public opinion using all of our gifts.
Should we go at Alt righties with threats and sticks and punches? Heavens, no. That's not how you win the hearts and minds of ordinary Americans. Plus we don't want to put our police officers into positions where they are forced to defend the Alt-Right as that will encourage bonds of sympathy between those two groups.
*Did Mosley or Hitler have as many gay or Jewish followers as the Alt Right?
Conditions in today's USA are certainly very far from those of Depression-era Britain, making direct comparisons somewhat dubious.
I doubt very much whether Mosley had any Jewish people among his followers, since people of his class were, as a rule, anti-Semites at that time, though I'm not so sure about the gays, himself being a product of the English elite public school system, where homosexual activity was extremely common - and he was, after all, such an aristocratic, well-bred and well-spoken pretty boy, wasn't he?
Hitler certainly had many influential gay followers - in the early days of the Sturmabteilung (SA) Brownshirts, led by the homosexuals Ernst Röhm and his deputy, Heines, at least.
So, when I see a bunch of perfectly-coiffured pretty boys in their designer chinos and polo shirts uniforms, chanting Nazi slogans and carrying Nazi banners, marching in torch lit procession in deliberate imitation of the SA, I'm not inclined to dismiss the comparison entirely, nor to make light of it.
They have been emboldened and encouraged by the words and actions of the President and his cronies.
As we saw in the documentary about Mosley and Cable Street, the Fascists were sanctioned by the authorities - just as the Charleston march was. They (the British authorities) allowed a uniformed mob to intimidate and threaten the lives of the residents of the area over a period, until they themselves took action to put a stop to it.
They had no support from any authority or organisation, whether it was the Jewish authorities, the Labour Party or the Communist Party (which was always tiny and insignificant anyway), and were baton-charged by mounted police when they attempted to block the march.
We saw the video of an alt-right marcher pull a gun and shoot at a counter-protester in Charlottesville, then melt back into the crowd. No police, undercover or otherwise, intervened at the time, though that would have been a very good time to send them all packing. Even better would have been intelligence-led intervention to deprive the Nazis of their weapons beforehand, but that didn't happen, as we know.
Likewise, in pre-Nazi Germany, the authorities did very little to stop the SA thugs, even after they attempted a coup d'état. Neither the politicians, nor the intelligentsia or the middle-class, not the Jews themselves, nor anyone else took the Nazis at their word until it was too late.
"¡No pasarán! " was the cry in Cable Street, echoing the words of the Spanish Civil War anti-fascists.
There really is no moral equivalence between Fascist mobs who want you or your neighbours exterminated, or enslaved or forced to flee, and those who resist them.
Yes I hate fascism and want to fight it. Without stepping into any traps.
Keep in mind that the life expectancy of poor white Americans is presently diminishing. For demography, it is a very bad sign.
They didn't have iPhones, YouTube, Sinclair Broadcast Group, or Fox News in the 1930s. Back then a punch was not even an assault unless witnesses willing to testify. Today a smack upside the head echoes around the planet. Millions of grandmothers can be made to hate you in an instant.
So why oh why oh why do people who self-describe as "Antifa" cling so tightly to their right to throw the first punch?
Let's be clear: we are talking about the first punch, the initiation of physical violence. Only pacifists will say you can't fight back once the danger of bodily harm becomes imminent. Antifa equivocates on this point depending upon their audience.
Before Trump was elected my Fox News parents worried aloud about the "violent far left." Antifa was hardly a thing then. I could argue that the left wants civilization not the law of the jungle. I could say that that the left stands for equality before the law, due process, and violence only at the authority of "We, the People" as represented by our civil institutions. My parents would point out black clad leftists rioting and setting cars on fire and I could say, "nobody likes those freaks."
But now a whole bunch of people seem to think "Antifa" is real rather than made-up bullshit like the Volunteer Ministers. Now "Antifa" has this history going all the way back to Cable Street because a small group of confused youfs are easily led by a few PR hacks who know how to create a brand with t-shirts and beanies and everything.
People do know that thousands of non-Antifa people will attend a protest against the KKK, right? I'm thinking some worry that telling Antifa to stop throwing punches and setting fires and breaking windows is like telling people not to protest fascists. Everyone who isn't nuts is anti-fascist. Only a few are Antifa.
TI, I have confined myself to comments about verifiable historical events, for the very good reason that I know very little about the group now calling themselves Antifa and claiming a history going back to The Battle of Cable Street.
There is a longer history of anti-fascists in Berlin for example, engaging in violence with neo-Nazi skinheads, going back to the sixties. These were mostly minor, gang-like skirmishes, with a few punches thrown on either side - very far from the conditions that existed in Germany, or Britain for that matter, in the thirties, when Fascists became the civil authorities in a number of European countries, and Mosley tried to import the same disgusting methods and tactics into the UK.
The Cable Street resistance to Mosley could probably be best described as civil disobedience, rather than initiating violence, since they wanted to block the streets to prevent a march that was - disgracefully - declared to be lawful by the elected local officials, placing the residents in conflict with the police.
I do not support random acts of violence against anyone. I do support active resistance to criminal organisations. (Remember that the Nazis were tried and convicted in Nuremberg of forming a criminal state).
As for the Fox News parents - have you considered disconnection (of the telly, obviously)?
The PR Hacks themselves recognized, organization, uniforming and a level of discipline in the ranks of the alt right. They tried to give themselves a brand to counter the alt rights own brand. This has backfired spectacularly because they failed to weed out the undesirable violent extremists among themselves and establish the aforementioned standards of discipline which make any group more palatable to mainstream society. From a PR perspective, the alt right are winning at this aspect hands down. Sad to say, they perhaps learned a little of anon tech in that.
Thousands? I am yet to see those sort of numbers of 'antifa' at protests. 'Antifa' are always well down on numbers compared to those that protest alongside them, who would never act as antifa does, and yet are equally impassioned about protesting Trump, KKK, Fascism, etc.
When I said "thousands" I was talking about the non-Antifa people. Maybe you misread me?
Here's an article explaining how the alt-right focus on getting Antifas to assault them. They love being assaulted because juicy YouTubes that can be used to make "leftist protesters" in general look bad.
Ah yes, it would seem I did misunderstand, my apologies.
I've debated some pro-Antifa people in comments. They rely on superficial arguments. Like,
"We had to use violence to defeat the Nazis in WW2. Ergo, punching people who seem like Nazis is justified."
"If people had done more punching of Nazis back in the 1930s maybe the Nazis would not have seized power in Europe."
"You are a coward and a Nazi apologist."
An Antifascist will always be a little better that a NeoNazi
It is what America fought against
Antifascists are fine. "Antifa" dressed in black and doing violence is different.
Comments from faculty and students at UVA on the tiki torch rally 8-11-17.
This one is my favorite:
I want people to see and feel the contrast between raw power and civilization. I just have this conviction that this contrast is the best way to defeat the enemies of reason. That's why I do not want the civilized to punch "Nazis" in the street.
Hey somebody agrees with me.
Punching people in the head is very dangerous, possibly fatal. Anyone who does so is risking a serious charge, possibly murder.
Anyone who feels sympathy for the swastika armband-wearing moron, however, needs to stop and consider that he did so, knowing that he is expressing support for the most sadistic regime in modern history, that there are people among his fellow-citizens who lost their entire families, their homes, their culture and their country because that regime murdered and pillaged them indiscriminately. He knows that the wearing of that symbol will cause pain and distress to those fellow-citizens. He knows that the regime he supports ultimately reduced their own country to a pile of rubble, in a massive use of more violence than even he could imagine.
It is an incitement to violence and racial hatred to parade Nazi symbols.
An arm band on a "lone wolf" on a bus makes no sense. Either the person is not playing with all 52 cards or this video is staged.
A swastika tat is intimidating but it's not an incitement to violence or hatred where I live. It suggests a guy did time in prison or he was in a gang at some point. I wouldn't leave my car unlocked around such a person.
In context, and unless you are correct that the whole thing is staged, he was supposedly wearing armband and shouting racial epithets at people, including a person of colour. Deliberate baiting? dunno?
David Pakman had one of his crew interview people at a protest in Virginia. Antifa were there but when approached for an interview they responded with death threats. Since when did human rights activists start relying upon death threats?
A couple weeks ago I saw a video of Antifa in Boston trying to menace a videographer. They basically ordered the guy to stop filming. They obscured their faces by wearing hoodies and sunglasses. They were paranoid about going up on Youtube and getting doxxed.
I understand the fear of being doxxed. But why not take a lesson from Anonymous and hide your face better? Even if masks are illegal there are tricks like a scarf that you can raise and lower. Or a wig with long hair around the sides of your face, etc.
I think the super paranoid Antifa in Boston and mentioned in this Virginia video are probably ratfuckers.
An example of a ratfucker is Roger Stone.
The fun part of being a Nazi is sharing the lulz with other Nazis.
Trump just threatened to exterminate a nation of 25 million people. But, hey, don't fucking worry, the pundits have roundly condemned Antifa violence.
If you talk like a Nazi, post like a Nazi, behave like a Nazi, you're a fucking Nazi.
And doing that on this particular site .. Ohhh fuck! #Ramifications
Penny and his proclamations are so fucking ludicrous and not particularly impressive.
Pfffff .. Nazis, Your days are fucking numbered.
What's the plan?
Do you intend to get inside Trump's head and take him down or just keep on making noise and posting hashtags?
Admit you're just another arseho!e with nothing better to do with your time but make empty threats.
Being impotent must be a real drag for you Penny.
Get a life.
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