Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread enjoy ur arraignment. you might want to get that lawyer before you go to see if filing a motion for dismissal is doable at this point. and yes, shit like graffiti and blocking ingress/egress are often batched together under "disturbing the peace" laws.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread First things first, thanks again everybody for your criticism and support. If I had known that you guys were gonna be so awesome, then I would have gotten myself arrested sooner! Hopefully none of us will ever have to deal with a senseless arrest like this again. SOOOOO... WHO'S AWESOME? THE RUNDOWN So here is what happened tonight. I got to the City of University City City Hall (ugh) about 6.30. Was called to talk to the Judge about 7.15. Said "Good evening, Sir", He read my charge and asked me how I plead to which I responded "Not Guilty, Sir" He told me to wait a moment and I would talk to the Prosecuting Attorney. Had a seat and chilled...wished I had brought the video at that point, I assumed that I wouldn't even talk to anyone this evening, that they would just assign me a trial date and I’d be off. But one of the cops said that if they can get a case squared away tonight then they will try that first. about 8.00 I got my chance to talk to the PA, at first he was ready to set a trial date, even wrote it down on my case file...and then he saw where I was arrested and then started reading through the case file... he was a little surprised when he read the arrest report that actually said that my 18"x24" sign was slowing down traffic. About 5 minutes into it he was talking about not pursuing charges. I told him about our relatively good relationship with the police, our polite encounters with scilons and even our 18 months of peaceful protests. Ten minutes into he says "you know, this isn't anything I can prosecute" WIN. He dropped the charges after speaking to him for ten minutes. we talked for about 25 minutes about our POSITIVE history in U.City, the Westboro Baptist Church-relevant because they won the right to protest at military funerals, the initial fuss that the cops gave anonymous over wearing masks, anons chalking the sidewalks (I’m looking at you Blitz), the scilons apparently haven't even had a problem with us (that they could take to the cops at least). All in all it was pretty enlightening. I left the courthouse, turned on my Zune, and played Michael Jackson's "Beat It", feeling just a little bit more superior than usual. BUT I DID MAKE ONE CONCESSION The PA was concerned that until there was a real case about the matter of where we could protest/picket that we might just be arrested again. SO to protect our ability to cross the street and picket but protect the scilons from the hackers on steroids, we agreed that we wouldn't protest on the ORG side of the street unless there was an officer present. It was my suggestion, and I feel that this is more than fair. It protects the scilons and gives us witnesses if there is an altercation (with cops out there won’t be) and the odds of this agreement getting back to the scilons (say for a counter protest) is very low. I never really wanted to speak for the anonymous is this fashion, but I figure that this is more than fair for everyone involved. AND it may mean that the cops wont police the org on Raid dates if we can be legitimately arrested (or at least threatened) for breaking our own rules and being there at times when they are not. IN CLOSING So that’s it, if the ACLU wants to follow through with my case then I might let it slide if this agreement works out. I can deal with one asshole cop if the whole thing works out for everyone AND we lose the presence of cops. I think that this has been great experience and look forward to NOT being arrested for speaking my mind in the future.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread In My Honest Opinion............. DIS ROCKS! An dats all I gots ta say in this matter.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread this is fucking awesome! congrats and good job educating the PA!
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Ace, suggest you ask Hollow to update OP. Also mad props for choosing a victory song with an Eddie Van Halen solo. RESPECT.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Excellent. From what I saw, the whole situation was handled superbly from A to Z.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Awesome news!! Just curious, was the arresting officer in court as well? Or was he just off somewhere, arresting? Guys like that really should be required to be witnesses to their own fail. And verbally butt raeped by the PA for tying up the courts time, as well as your own time with this sort of frivolous nonsense. You deserve much more than a free balogna sammich for all that he put you through.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Well done ace.com Where's that doggone WWP Wiki!? I want the page for our forum 'guests' that lists all these legal altercations, with 90%+ of them showing Status : Scilon FAIL!!! [again]
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Ace, you are... well... ACE! This has WIN written all over it. Great work.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread FANTASTIC NEWS, Ace! Well done, you. (WHO'S awesome? YOU are! YOU are!)
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread OK, I'll be Debbie Downer: Why the hell would you (a) presume to speak for all Anons and (b) give up protesting on one side of the street when there's absolutely zero reason for doing so? I'm totally baffled at this. Scilons got a win on that, starting from nothing at all. And if they're reading this thread (and someone on their side of things ought to be, if they're even halfway awake), they obviously know about it already. I'm thinking your verbal agreement on that is not legally binding even on you, let alone anyone else, although of course there's going to be a feeling of wanting to honor it just to be honorable (and I'm not saying that it shouldn't be honored, just making observations). How is it possible to give up a right to peaceably assemble in a public place? If I go to your town to protest, and I want to do it on the org side of the street... what? I'm somehow restricted by your big mouth? It's great that the bogus charges have been dropped, and all that. Bully for you, yadda yadda. I'm just lost on how this verbal agreement makes any sense at all. Seems like a case of "I'm winning?? Well here, let me suddenly share some win with the undeserving [strike]losers[/strike]creeps, just to be nice."
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Because a verbal agreement is better then nothing. and it mean alot more then you take it for. the only reason that this went as far as it did, is because the Officer that our admins our normally in contact with has taken personal leave. If i am not mistaken nobody speaks for any anonymous...so it doesnt really matter what agreements any of us make with a city official. I even specify that i never wanted to speak for anonymous. HOWEVER, i needed to give the PA something. And if there are scientologist reading this? so what. they would either find out or not. but if it gives the police a reason to reduce or eliminate their presence outside of the org, then i fail to see an issue. we dont look like peaceful protesters when the abortion clinic on the other side of town rarely has cops outside of it. so i guess my question is, what would you do? what promise would you make to avoid further litigation? would you have even put yourself in the situation here you might get arrested in the first place? and how good is your relationship with the city that you picket in? i tried to weigh all of those thing before making a verbal, untested, non-binding agreement with the PA. I came up with a solution on the spot instead of locking up and caving to staying on our side of the street. i believe the phrase is "you give a little and you get a little".
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread How about "none"? "further litigation" for what? Why should the INNOCENT VICTIM of a fraudulent arrest concede anything? (I'm blatantly dodging the rest of your questions since this is not about me.)
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Unfortunately we wernt talking about my arrest at the time, we were talking about how to avoid FURTHER problems. so i am not going to say to the guy that just dropped my case "fuck you HAHAHAHAHAHA FALSE ARREST!!!!!". instead i would rather see what has general been a good relationship with the city stay that way.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread When I was in FL protesting the cops came and asked up to stay on the other side of the St. he even Said we could be on the other side of the St but in the intrest of keeping the peace and keeping the cops from being called every five min for stupid shit cause "we have better things to do". You done good. BTW just beacuse one man made an agrement doesnt mean everyone has to follow it.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Don't feed the troll who knows everthing better than anybody else... IMHO, if there are issues to discuss, it can be done in a non trolling way. No need for drama.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Johnny and Phantom are right about one thing: Ace can only speak for himself. He's not an agent of representative of anyone else. Congrats on having the charges dropped Ace.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Ann I am not trying to start drama. Sorry if you think I am. One man made an agreement that was best for him. Anonymous doesn't have any one leader all that can be done is what was done you tell everyone what the aggrement is and its up to the indiviual to follow said aggrement.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread It has been said and is - or should be - clear for everybody. Nothing personal BTW.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Good news that you didn't have to go though a tiresome court case. If, as the PA suggested, you could be arrested again if you protested on the org side of the street then would that not constitute harrassment in view of the fact that the police would now be aware that it is not going to result in a conviction? (epecially if was the same victim and the same officer involved). Here in the UK, the equivalent would be the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service) setting the bar for what the cops can charge you with for a given situation. If it happened again then questions would be asked as to why the police would then arrest and detain the same person in the same circumstances (officers could possibly face disciplinary measures). How does it work in your neck of the woods? Can they really just keep on arresting you for the same thing even though they know it has proven to be wasting the courts time, the police departments time and your time?
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread None taken. My point is the indivual that decides to break the agrement might be dealt with more harsly and the DA might not be so quick to dismiss. If you want to take that chance then you as an indivual can protest on the org side of the ST. When I was in FL I could have said, to the cop that asked us to protest on the other side of the ST. "Well its my right to be on that side of the ST. You cant tell me where I can and cannot protest!" Then he would have been mad and then he would be looking for a reason to have me aressted. Hell I am no where near St Louis so my opinion means about as much and a C&D letter from a Scifag.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread A similar "stay on the other side of the street" agreement has been unofficially agreed in London at TCR Org as well, which has never really caused us a problem. The lulzy part is that the scifags know about this and are told to stay on their side of the street. On several occasions they've come over to give us some hassle, whilst calling the police about us - and when the police arrive, the scifags get an earful a) for wasting their time, and b) for being on our side of the street, gtfo or be arrested kinda thing. A lot of people cross the street to avoid having to walk past the Dianetics Centre as well - so it's a double win for us.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread Good job Ace! I still want to read about the criminal arrested through Scilon email channels.
Re: St-Louis Arrest Discussion Thread OK. Like...what? Why should there be any "further problems"? The only problem so far is that the stupid cop falsely arrested you. He's the one who should be making concessions. The DA didn't do anything wrong; why would you say anything of the sort to him? You should be saying that to the stupid cop though -- in a far more polite way, of course. ;-) Good, but if you're expected by that city to reward police misbehavior, that seems like a foolishly one-sided relationship. The way I see this, what it boils down to is, you were victimized, your attacker got away with it, and you rewarded him by voluntarily offering to restrict your own rights (and others'?). Could be worth mentioning that I have a friend in my state who was peaceably demonstrating on a sidewalk a couple years ago, was accosted by a stupid cop trying to suppress his free speech rights, stood his ground, and ended up quite a bit richer via court. (I also have my own less-interesting history in this stuff, but it's of little relevance IMO.) So, while I'm no expert, I do see that case as a template for "doing it right". Every case sets a precedent, one way or another, for future cases. I'm cranky over what may be the precedent being set here, even if only on an expectational level vs. a legal one. The police are not the targets, obviously, so we do need to "pick our battles". It just rankles me to see police misbehavior rewarded in any way, and that point should not be lost under the back-slapping bandwagon. Notwithstanding, I respect you for taking action and seeking the most productive outcome, and that too should not be lost. My nitpicking does not mean you are not a sexy cult-wrangling beast.
