Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. Didn't know where to post this. The missing person forum seems too slow.

    But have not seen an update from sp4rrowh4wk for a week now. And s/he used to visit here as well.

    Anyone know anything?
  2. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    thank you so much for your concern. i am ok. i dropped everything to do as much as i could for Iran, and must now pick up the pieces. i no longer have the time to devote to research & writing, & so content myself with passing a limited amount of information in other ways. i am trying to determine methods of getting paid for amateur open source analysis &/or semi-poetic insults to barbaric despots. if you know of anything, please drop me a line. :) in the mean time, i will almost certainly return to construction work. perhaps i will ask NiteOwl if poets & fighters of tyranny are needed in Antarctica. if anyone would snow about that kind of thing, it would be him. :p

    thank you again. please do not concern yourself.
  3. That's a relief!

    I was worried too. So glad to hear from you!
  4. JohnDoe Moderator

    thanks! I was getting worried too!!!! So it was a relief to see your post
  5. sp4rrowh4wk,

    Glad to hear that you are ok. One quick question: what is the overall mood of the Green movement in Iran? Are people getting more or less hopeful that something good is going to happen?
  6. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    thank you for asking my opinion. hopeful is not a word i would use. hope implies an uncertainty and belies hidden fear. there is no uncertainty, and fear diminishes rather than grows with each new death or revealed atrocity.

    each tear of our mourning mothers washes away fear and uncertainty.

    each drop of blood increases the volume of a Green Sea.

    each barbaric act of a desperate regime strengthens our resolve.

    each and every syllable of our defiance fills the night like heaven's own stars.

    are we hopeful? do we think change might happen? i will tell you: change will most certainly happen. it is already happening. and we are NOT hopeful.

    we are determined.
  7. sp4rrowh4wk, thank you for taking the time to answer the question. I am Iranian and was in Iran in 1979. I thought the Shah was ruthless, but these criminals have stooped to a new level of human indecency.

    The turning point in 1979 was when the milatry started switching sides. Please send this video to as many people as you know:

    I am glad people are so determined. I wish I could be there to take back the country from these thieves.

    Good luck to you, to all of you, and be safe.

  8. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    thank you so much for your support. it means everything.

    you have mentioned the military. my understanding is approximately 500 air force cadets refused orders in 1979. this began a chain reaction within the military, ultimately dooming the regime. thirty years later, where are those cadets who stood for honor over the shah's orders? those who did not perish during the war with Iraq must surely now be senior commanders. how can we explain the reports, albeit few and scattered, of blue uniforms seen during the protests after Rafsanjani's friday prayers?

    i understand many commanders of the military, including some within the IRG, are opposed to Khamenei. why does Khamenei decide now to replace his military ideological senior staff? like many decisions of this leader, it is a poorly conceived, futile and *far* too late an attempt to change an existing 'flaw' in his totalitarian state. of course, the subtext is, 'my military does not fully support me, i had better do some more indoctrination.' many rumors persist regarding letters presented to Khamenei by military officers explaining their position as opposed to him, his son Mojtaba, Ahmadi, Mesbah, and the IRG officers who have grown fat off of Iran and attempted to cement their hold over the nation this past june.

    please remember, the military may not intercede directly unless the majlis and/or the expediency council (i believe) declare a state of emergency.

    we, the ordinary people of Iran, are determined to create a better form of government. we are not alone in our determination.
  9. sp4rrowh4wk,

    Thank you for taking the time to reply. As I talk to more and more Iranians in the country, they seem to be very determined and its seems the fear is gone. That is an important milestone.

    I wish everyone the best of luck and pray for the least bloodshed.

    If there is anything we can do from here, please do not hesitate to ask. The entire world is watching and they are on your side.

  10. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    the disagreements concerning Ahmadi's vice-presidential pick are particularly puzzling. *nothing* has damaged the strength & legitimacy of Khamenei's position from within the regime as much as Ahmadi's continued arguing and defying the 'supreme leader'.

    is Ahmadi being set up to be sacrificed in order to save the regime as a whole?

    i have reason to believe there is some belief in the deluded minds of the IRG coup leaders that Ahmadi is the beginning and the end of the dispute. in fact, Ahmadi and the fraudulent election results represent the tip of the political protest ice berg. furthermore, an attempt of this nature to save the circus by tossing out the monkey merely underscores the regime's 'lack of contact' with Iranians.

    Khamenei sealed the fate of the whole system when he took sides, when he declared the election results early and illegally, and when he vehemently denied the right of peaceful protest- condoning the brutal suppression which followed.

    the choice of Mashaei is also very puzzling. is this simply another in a long line of nepotistic favors? no critic even mentions nepotism- probably because it is an accepted, or at least tolerated, part of politics. does Mashaie really have ties to the MKO or is this another attempt to discredit him? what are Mashaei's feelings toward Israel? does Mashaei really have ties to the Hojjatieh movement? why is the former minister of tourism and handicrafts under so much scrutiny and generating so much criticism- from all corners?

    any and all of these questions deserve close scrutiny from diligent people with more time and other resources than i.
  11. Yes. This could very well turn out to be the case.
  12. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    thank you for your comment, Bugs Bunny.

    i think it is the case. and while it may be a great gesture on the part of the regime, they must know it will not solve any existing problems. such a move will only further traumatize and weaken the system for several reasons.

    this move continues to divide the current regime.

    this move will be correctly seen by people as a half measure designed to placate.

    such a move will not fix any of the underlying genuine issues troubling the current system.

    can the puppet be held accountable for the actions of the master? such a move will only hasten the demise of Iran's current political structure.
  13. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    PressTV reported 50 of 86 members of the Assembly of Experts (PressTV currently reporting 88 members. probably just a typo, not a further reminder no one knows what is going on) were against Rafsanajani. oops. not quite the necessary 2/3 majority needed to force a decision.

    a new report now says, in an attempt to correct the faulty math of the regime's mental giants conducting psychological warfare, that a letter representing something like 67 Assembly of Experts members now oppose Rafsanjani.

    Well done, psywar geniuses.

    recent PressTV reports allege most of the ministers who were sacked earlier today, have in fact, not been sacked. trying to avoid a confidence vote? attempting to dictate policy to, or make decisions for, the president select?

    one thing is certain. PressTV is owned and operated by the IRGC. founded by the same entity who has propped up Khamenei all these years, the same entity controlling much of the economy. the same entity who counted the votes on 12 june (all 50 or 60 something million of them in 3 hours) and is
    demon-strably behind the violence.

    some have said, of another totalitarian state run news source, there is no pravda in Pravda. if there is regularly any truth to be found in PressTV, be assured it is only partial. but used fully in the effort to deceive.

    unrelated post script, appropos nothing: people please, e-cigs are manufactured in China. China of course, representing the pinnacle of manufacturing integrity.
  14. آفتاب - هاشم‌زاده هریسی: بیانیه صادر شده، بیانیه مجلس خبرگان نیست
  15. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    hi, JohnDoe- thank you.

    you are right. immediately after the election existed a chance, a small window of opportunity, to avoid all this bloodshed and weakening of the system. the regime could have eaten a very small amount of crow, admitted irregularities without specificity, and held a new election. many of us tweeted this exact message to the regime which must surely have had watchers on all media outlets. we tweeted and we posted and we waited to see what Khamenei would say during friday prayers. the rest, including the regime (as you point out), is history.

    was it the arrogance of the coup leaders blinding them to what seemed obvious to so many? was it the belief in the strength of arms or the weakness of the general public's will? i think it was all of these things and more. these attitudes are based on something very fundamental. the leaders of Iran are completely out of touch with the people of Iran. they just don't care enough. they also assumed the people of the world would not care enough.

    one of the desired effects when all media outlets are state run: people get fooled. who was the unexpected beneficiary of the state's propaganda machine? only the buffoons in control and their stooges who *wanted* to be fooled.

    however, Roe Lassie, the regime can still avoid civil war. we must be prepared for the following:

    1) Ahmadi will be sacked. there are two reasons- arguing with the supreme leader and removing too many ministers. new elections would follow, but the supreme leader stays until he passes, the position can then be altered or terminated entirely. there would be no trial for Mojtaba or any other IRGC connected coup leader.

    this can only work if we let it because-

    2) the prisoners will all be granted amnesty. if we allow ourselves to be overwhelmed by amnesty and being allowed to vent our anger by a sudden lack of violence toward our demonstrations- we are done.

    we must remember all that has happened and more importantly WHY it has happened. we can never allow ourselves to forget.

    i also want to say to you and everyone who is helping that every video, every tweet, every facebook page, every blog and citizen reporter makes us feel stronger in our protests, helps to keep us going back out onto the streets and roofs, and more welcome in the world we are struggling to join.

    thank you.
  16. I read somewhere that they're operating on the principle that even the slightest concession will send them plummeting down a slippery slope ultimately leading to total collapse. Their policy has therefore been to react with harsh violence instead of budging even an inch.
  17. a desert Member

    I think that nails it perfectly. They can't (or won't) go in a more progressive fashion- because a great deal of the population is educated, they can't revert to temporary pacifism, and then quietly going back to the way things are. The Sea of Green has a long memory, and they know trying to go behind their backs will only result in an even bigger crush.
  18. well put-thnks

    [ame=]YouTube - Nursery Rhymes - Humpty Dumpty[/ame]
  19. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    thank you to those who post videos. i am sorry i cannot watch from here. perhaps soon there will be sufficient bandwidth, or uninterrupted connection time.

    thank you, Unregistered and Landers. imagine leaders who are so fearful they cannot allow themselves to do one thing to help the people they are supposed to be leading.

    what a strange idea of strength! that it should be weakened by kindness or compassion, by simple fairness and adherence to the law.

    a slippery slope? which actions (looking at the past 6 weeks) have led to this imminent collapse? now let us look back further... the tanks rolled into Hungary and Czechoslovakia to harshly put down resistance there. was that a permanent solution? the czar cleared red square numerous times with gunfire. do the Romanovs rule russia today? the french have far too much experience with emperors, kings and revolutions- lets ask them how the violent suppression of dissent has worked out. almost the entire history of viet nam is one group or another trying to impose their will over her people. unsuccessfully.

    and i am sure i can hear someone asking, 'what about Tank Man?' the chinese have done well with the violent suppression of rights and rallies. but the chinese have even longer memories than those of us in the persian gulf region. goodness knows, we take our time, but we are racing hastily along compared to the chinese. yet the chinese have discovered capitalism. it is efficient in part because people can choose, or vote, with their money.

    people will always remember Tank Man. he is etched into the collective consciousness of modern humanity. what people choose to forget is the tactics of oppression- the crackdowns, harsh violence, intolerance, fear - these things do not work. they are not ,and cannot be, permanent solutions.

    we are human beings. at some point we will stand and demand our freedom. in your arrogance, and in your failure to understand the nature of effective communication, do not think to make us sit back down. look at history and you will see the bones of all the regimes who thought the same.
  20. Can you download videos, or does it take too long?

    If you can, let me know what ones you want and I'll see if I can load them up to my file sharing site.
  21. JohnDoe Moderator

    persian gulf region - that made me smile;)

    One of the things that makes this whole situation so unique is the sheer number of Iranians abroad. The 5 million(?) of them, many of whom left their country in exile are still as passionate about Iran as they were the day they forced to leave. This regime has millions of wee ants working against them in every corner of the globe!

    You are right, fear, brutality, crack downs only last so long. When the people are determined to bring change ultimately nothing can stop them.
  22. five million?

    i never knew.

    i am not muslim or Persian.

    my first contact was about 1980.

    a young man called Saeed who had his life ripped to bits and could not go home.

    however much he wanted to.

    because of that fleeting contact,when the images of evil islam flooded the media,there was something real to compare them with.

    i am sure there are rotten-to-the-core people in every culture.

    if there is any good to come of this tragedy it is the spreading knowlege of the freedom imperative shared by all cultures,creeds and genetic backgrounds.
  23. sp4rrowh4wk Member

    hi Unregistered- it is both a matter of time and poor connectivity. i write as i can before and after work. i am an electrician and spend most of my days repairing the damage to people's homes or shops. i work for food, or for free, or just to talk.

    i spend a lot of time talking with people who have damage no single person could ever repair. sometimes it is enough, for now, to talk just a little.

    hi JohnDoe. i am persian and think of iran as persia, with her long history of equality and influence. but i have heard many who are not ethnically persian and indeed iran has always enjoyed a cosmopolitan blending of many people and cultures. until relatively recently all cultures were welcomed and treated with respect. with respect comes mutual respect, and then people may learn and grow together.

    i used to write of iran and persia interchangeably but i began to understand some people resented this or misunderstood or believed me to be exclusionary. in an effort to be more inclusive, without using/re-using the same words- which through overuse can lose their meaning- i sometimes refer to the region as a whole. a region which has seen much change, has a long history, and includes many people. i hope i have again not been misunderstood.

    hello Unregistered. you are right, of course. are there not spoiled fruits in every orchard? is this then a reason to hate the tree, mistrust the farm or turn away from the Farmer? i am glad you have had an opportunity to be able to distinguish between a person and a regime. it is very easy, i think, for people living with representative governments to forget all governments do not represent, nor adequately speak for, their people.

    you are right in your second point, as well. this tragedy has many good things with which to associate it. the world is witness to a revolution, and not just a witness. people everywhere are helping other people whom they have never seen- will never have any contact with- obtain freedoms which do not directly benefit the helpers. this in itself is amazing.

    we are redefining the very concept of revolution.

    totalitarian regimes still in place show their fear of what we have accomplished by removing satellite dishes now, presumably before it is too late. it is already too late.

    when iran is free, will freedom then be easier to obtain for other oppressed people? of course, and we are showing them how, you and i.
  24. Ray Murphy Member

    Well when this is all over (and you've won) I hope you encounter a stranger from some other country who starts talking about your struggle and then opens their wallet or purse and shows you a picture that looks something like this one below:

    I'd better print my copy out - just in case I bump into some non-basiji Iranian soon.

    Attached Files:

  25. a desert Member

    I may or may not be stealing that idea to have this picture in my wallet.
  26. Ray Murphy Member

    As long as the dedicated supporters have some highly recognizable memento in their wallet! I'm being very serious here.
  27. a desert Member

    Perhaps we should make some card-sized designs? >.>

    I've been playing around with the idea of making some playing cards w/ designs for the Sea of Green. With Anonymous as the Joker, Neda as the Queen of Hearts, etc.
  28. Ray Murphy Member

    Business card size would work best for the majority of people because they could keep them with b/cards. In Australia it's 90 x 55 mm - considerably smaller than a playing card.
  29. a desert Member

    Well the playing card idea was somewhat removed from it; that came because I keep an Ace of Spades in my wallet (old habit). The business card(s) would have to be much smaller and cleaner since some people would just print them out themselves to carry and distribute.
  30. Yeah, that's a great idea. There was a guy on one of the other AI forums, I think it was the pictures forum, who designed that Neda poster you showed. He seems eager and very talented. Why not approach him?

    Let's have a card for Nite Owl. Hearts could have a variety of the martyred. Diamonds could have a variety of imprisoned or murdered journalists. (Kazemi, now dead, comes to mind.) The clubs could have a variety of identified Basij with regime leadership as the face cards. Spades? Hmmm... dunno. Thoughts?
  31. a desert Member

    AustinHeap and NiteOwl/Green Brief would probably be king cards... I'd love to use that Neda poster as the backs of the cards, the picture is amazing.

    My problem is that I don't know whether to spilt the cards into protesters/regime lackeys or just keep them 100% pure protester, accept no substitutions. I don't want Neda to be mixed up with Basij, you know? Doesn't seem right.

    Maybe I should start a thread in pictures for ideas. Hnn.
  32. Yeah, start a thread in pictures. Good idea.

    edit: oh yeah, and having the Neda poster as the back of all the cards is a grand wonderful idea. Let's do that! It's such a beautiful poster.

    Cards are usually adversarial. That's why I think the regime/basij should have their own suit but keep them separate from the suits for journalists, martyrs, and whatever the other suit ends up being.

    I think having Anonymous Iran as the joker is a good idea because we have tended to throw a kaibosh into the best laid plans of the regime. :D
  33. would not amidinni be the joker
  34. a desert Member

    Nope. The Joker is one of the most powerful, if not most powerful cards.

    Originally, Jokers/Jesters (also known as the Fool) were employed not only to make the King and Queen laugh, but because they were one of the few whom could be counted to tell the truth; the Jester could say things that the others could not and in fact were valued for it.
  35. So perhaps NiteOwl ought to be the joker then... Or maybe he should be the Ace... Or maybe he should be the King.. Hmph hard to decide...

    sp4rrowh4wk's comments almost made me weep like a little baby... In the little of the office none-the-less... Iranian people have balls of steel and hearts of gold...
  36. a desert Member

    Mmm. I think for now I'll stick with the Anon Joker thing. I was going to make him the King of Diamonds or summat.

    I've had to restrict my time reading here b/c I'm at work and I start tearing up and I really don't want to have to explain why. ):
  37. Visionary Member

    For the playing card thing, there could always be two decks, one for the regime and one for the sea of green.
    Anyway, I wonder where Mousavi, Karroubi, Khameni, Ahmadinejad and the rest would go.
  38. a desert Member

    We're discussing it more in the pictures thread (link in siggy) and I think one of the complications is that there's the traditional view of cards (spades/death, diamonds/merchants, clubs/soldiers, hearts/lovers) and then there's our cards. But again, all input is needed and appreciated!

    We could always do two, except the regime side would probably lack a Joker.

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