SP Times Round Three

Discussion in 'St Petersburg Times expose' started by blownforgood, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Just read it (in b4 slowpoke.jpg)

    Floodgates are definitely open this time.
  2. tippytoe Member

    SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    How Scientology got to Bob Minton - St. Petersburg Times

    How Scientology got to Bob Minton - St. Petersburg Times

    By Thomas C. Tobin and Joe Childs, Times Staff Writers
    In Print: Monday, November 2, 2009
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    Buzz up!
    The line. Bob Minton bought a building just 30 feet from the church’s stately property, the former Bank of Clearwater building. The city of Clearwater painted white lines in the street, where Minton was not allowed when Scientologists boarded their buses.
    [Times files (2000)]
    The line. Bob Minton bought a building just 30 feet from the church’s stately property, the former Bank of Clearwater building. The city of Clearwater painted white lines in the street, where Minton was not allowed when Scientologists boarded their buses.
    Related Multimedia

    * Multimedia: More on Scientology, including video interviews with the defectors and previous coverage of the church.

    Robert S. Minton seemed to surface out of nowhere in late 1997. • A retired investment banker and millionaire from New England, he began to show up at anti-Scientology demonstrations in Boston and Clearwater. He gave millions to groups critical of the church. • He became the money man behind a wrongful death lawsuit by the family of Lisa McPherson, whose unexplained death at Scientology's Clearwater mecca threw the church into crisis. • Minton quickly became the Church of Scientology's No. 1 nemesis. • "I felt that the little guys needed some help," he once said. "I'm putting my money where my mouth is."

    Much of the church's response to Minton has been documented — the legal onslaught, the skirmishes that sought to bait him, get him in trouble and torpedo his credibility.

    Twice he was arrested and charged after minor scuffles with Scientologists while picketing church properties. Once, he fired a shotgun into the air after Scientologists appeared at his New Hampshire farm.

    Early on, the church dispatched private investigators to talk to his son, his brother, his wife's family in England, his elderly mother in Florida.

    Still, Minton wouldn't go away.

    Now former church officials Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder reveal the other tactics they used.

    Shortly after Minton burst onto the scene, the pair arranged two meetings with the millionaire to introduce themselves and glean his motives. Both times they brought a tool worthy of James Bond. They set it on the table.

    "It was a black briefcase with a small pinhole camera hole and a small mic hole," Rathbun said. "And so we recorded the entire thing without the guy's knowledge."

    This and other accounts illustrate how far Scientology was willing to go to stop Minton, who, in a stunning reversal five years later, ended up testifying in court on the church's behalf.

    That part of the story begins with David Lubow, the same private investigator the church used just a few years earlier to infiltrate a group of Scientologists in Las Vegas.

    Rathbun and Rinder said they turned to Lubow in the late 1990s to look into Minton's financial affairs overseas. Lubow deployed to the capitals of Europe, dropping aliases and recruiting helpers to make Minton think he was being investigated by multiple agents, Rathbun said.

    "He was very elaborate," Rathbun said of Lubow. "He's actually very good at what he does.''

    Rinder said the operation fit with the directives of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, who wrote that if a person accuses you of something, they themselves are guilty of those crimes.

    "Minton was accusing the church of having bought off the IRS and gained false tax-exempt status," Rinder said. "So, the focus was: Find his financial crimes.''

    In 2001, Lubow returned from overseas with loads of information, including details on an alleged money-laundering scheme involving Minton and a Nigerian dictator that was never proved. Lubow wanted direction.

    He said he had been dealing with personnel at OSA, the Office of Special Affairs, headed at the time by Rinder. The office served as the church's legal, intelligence and public affairs arm, but the people under Rinder didn't have the authority to give Lubow the freedom he needed.

    Rinder and Rathbun corrected that problem, bringing Lubow to Clearwater for a meeting. They said they went to the parking lot of a bank on Cleveland Street, not wanting to risk someone spotting him entering a Scientology building. The three convened for hours in a car.

    "We got the guy focused like a laser beam," Rathbun said.

    Rinder said he told Lubow not to take orders from anyone else at OSA and to report only to Rathbun and him.

    "Here is your order," Rinder said he told the PI. "Get the goods on Minton to shut him the f--- up."

    By the spring of 2002, Scientology had painted Minton into a corner.

    On the legal front, the church pulled Minton into its efforts to have the lawsuit by McPherson's family dismissed.

    During a memorable court hearing on April 19, 2002, Minton took the stand and made the jaw-dropping statement that the plaintiff's attorney, Ken Dandar, was a "lying thief" who was "only in this for money."

    Dandar had considered Minton a strong ally for years. He couldn't believe it.

    "This man I adore, he was a saint," the Tampa lawyer said at the time. "It's like stabbing me in the heart. I'm just sitting there going, 'What did they do to you?' "

    Also, the millionaire now had a legal problem. He previously testified under oath that he had given $1 million or $1.3 million to the McPherson family's legal effort. Now he said in an affidavit it was $2 million.

    The judge in the case, Susan Schaeffer, made noises about perjury and wondered aloud if someone should read Minton his rights.

    What had gone on behind the scenes to change Minton's stripes?

    Rathbun and Rinder told how it was done.

    In the weeks before Minton's public turnaround, they say the church met with him some 20 times to discuss dropping the McPherson case and compensating Scientology. Church officials said Minton had caused them to spend $28 million to defend against his efforts.

    At one of the meetings, Rinder said, he presented Minton with what Lubow had found about the millionaire's finances.

    "There were things that, really, he was worried about and had caused problems for him in the investigation that we had done," Rinder said, declining to give more detail. "I'm just going to leave it at that."

    Dandar said he can't talk about the case, citing the terms of the 2004 settlement agreement.

    But he said in 2002 that Minton called him in a panic after one of his meetings with the church. Minton begged him to drop the lawsuit, Dandar said at the time.

    At one of the private meetings, Rinder issued an ultimatum, saying the church knew he had lied under oath. He demanded that Minton come clean.

    "If you are not willing to tell the truth, we are wasting our time and we'll just keep going after you," Rinder said he told Minton.

    "And what we were going after him on was where he got and had earned his money.''

    Later, in Schaeffer's courtroom, Minton said he lied, at Dandar's direction. In a subsequent interview, he said he feared being sent to jail for perjury.

    Dandar has denied Minton's accusation and charged that the perjury scare was a charade. The church had something serious on Minton, he said at the time.

    "Here's a man who put in six years and $10 million and all of a sudden he's having an about-face? All you have to do is apply common sense."

    Minton could not be reached for comment.

    He had become an anti-Scientology crusader in the mid 1990s after learning about the church's efforts to keep its materials from being publicized on the Internet. The more he read, he said in interviews, the more he became concerned about Scientology practices that, to him, seemed to violate its members' civil and human rights.

    But after years spent on anti-Scientology causes, he left the public stage as quickly as he had arrived, thoroughly subdued.

    When you fought Scientology, Minton once said, "It was like the Terminator was after you."

    Rinder, who once described Minton's actions as "despicable and disgusting," said he now considers him a friend.

    Asked to comment about the church's use of Lubow to investigate Minton, Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis did not address the case specifically but talked about the church's use of private investigators in general. He said in a statement that the church doesn't hire PIs, its lawyers do, and they operate within legal and ethical bounds.

    If Rinder and Rathbun abused anyone, "they are the ones to blame," Davis wrote. "Other church officials were not involved in their duties."

    [Last modified: Nov 01, 2009 10:39 PM]

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    There are 9 comments
    nate and mona wrote:
    we are loving parents, we have 7 daughters between us...4 are involved in the cult scientology ..all 4 have disconnected (3 had no choice they were raised from a very young age in the cult) .. we will not be bullied into joining your so-called religion that is based on knowledge for money under the premise of morals,ethic's copyright bull.. secret language talk..or moving up your bridge..or being o.k. with your sea-org slave camp..we know what goes on there (these kids and young adults work 12-18 hrs a day 6 to 6 1/2 days a week) SAVANNAH LARSON 9 YEARS LA SEA-ORG 6 YEARS NO PHYSICAL CONTACT..Megan was there 2..but they made her leave when we asked her to come home for a family emergency it took over 4 days for her supervisor's & handlers to release her from her duties that point they made her pack her bags-Megan has purchased close to $5000.00 worth of scientology training information called the basic's with a credit card from bank of america at 18 .. ongoing story
    Nov 2nd, 2009 10:25 am
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    RosyGlass wrote:
    Tommy Tommy Tommy. Thanks for admitting Scienology hires Private Investigators! Don't anyone try to explain this to him.
    Nov 2nd, 2009 8:22 am
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    meccaanon wrote:
    The subtext of all of this is, Rinder and Rathbun were the evil core of Scientology and now they are gone. Everything is happy and wonderful now! The truth of the matter is, Rinder and Rathbun were simply following the directives of L. Ron Hubbard. If Scientology is a religion than harassment is one of its sacraments. Read the essay "Keeping Scientology Working" which everyone in the organization mus sign. It describes how Scientology must be forced on everyone and how democratic forms of government are a bad idea. Then look at the "Hubbard Manual of Justice." These are the core beliefs of Scientology. Rathbun and Rinder followed these beliefs, and applied them under the direction of Scientology's current leader.
    Nov 2nd, 2009 6:37 am
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    Oscillatory Frequency wrote:
    Poor rich man Bob Minton, just couldn't go the distance with the espionage and pressure Scientology uses to attack its critics. If they don't try to drive a person crazy, or frame them for making bomb threats they didn't make, as they did with Paulette Cooper, they will still try to intimidate and threaten you any way they can, going for your "ruin." Author of Bare-Faced Messiah (the life of L. Ron Hubbard, free on the CLAMBAKE website), distinguished journalist Russell Miller, was turned in by Scientology as a murder suspect. He had nothing to do with it. David Miscavige on Nightline years ago, accused Richard Behar, author of the TIME article, of being a "kidnapper." Anyone who finds anything wrong with Scientology is a criminal in their eyes, because Scientology is obviously spotless and honest about everything.
    Nov 2nd, 2009 6:36 am
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    bigth8tan wrote:
    The SP here is you Sandy and the only bars you will see are the ones in your mind as night falls inexorably upon your existence as spiritual being.
    Nov 2nd, 2009 4:46 am
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    Sandy R. wrote:
    Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun you are both our hero. Thank you for standing up and speaking out the truth. Tommy Davis,you should be so ashamed of yourself for protecting the SP (little Davey). What are you going to do when David M is behind bars soon?
    Nov 2nd, 2009 2:43 am
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    lesmore wrote:
    What a despicable group of fanatics. I hope Tommy Davis is brought into the upcoming US court cases, and ends up having lie while under oath. Not sure what sentence perjury carries, but I know that Tommy will be real popular in prison! Be sure to wear bells Tommy!
    Nov 2nd, 2009 1:57 am
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    Shawn's Friend wrote:
    This is sad and Rathbun should be ashamed of himself. John Fashanu has confessed that there was no truth to the charges laid out in the report that bore his name. He’s asked for forgiveness from the Nigerian government for the lies he put forth John Fashanu Confesses : XENU TV
    Nov 2nd, 2009 1:34 am
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    Helen Charleton wrote:
    And they wonder why Anonymous wear masks.
    Nov 2nd, 2009 12:57 am
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    How Scientology got to Bob Minton
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  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    The scientology tactics of finding crimes and blackmailing have worked because many (all?) people have secrets they don't want revealed.

    It's going to take someone with no shame, some unknown entity without a central leader to take down the cult. Who ya gonna call?

    and lrn2copypasta a bit cleaner
  4. NotMike Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    I would guess it's a safe bet the Minton didn't kill anyone. What are the statute of limitations on other crimes e.g. financial?
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    These articles are pretty poorly written. They're hard to follow even to someone familiar with the situation.
  6. tippytoe Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    Don't like the pasta? Then use the link. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

  8. fitch2000 Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    "Scientology hired a famous Nigerian soccer star named John Fashanu to be the front man for their attack. They supplied Fashanu with a hefty written report documenting Bob’s “crimes.” Fashanu then held a press conference and denounced the man who he claimed had raped the struggling country out of $5-billion. Scientology made sure the world press covered the story and tried to get Bob hauled into court and thrown in the slammer......

    Now, nine years later, John Fashanu has confessed that there was no truth to the charges laid out in the report that bore his name. He’s asked for forgiveness from the Nigerian government for the lies he put forth. The press reports don’t mention Scientology’s involvement and I hope Fashanu is asked to explain in detail how they used him as part of their Fair Game assault."
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    I thought Bob Minton was on vacation with all his Nigerian money?

    No OSA that is not the headline for your next paid newswire announcement.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    you are stuck in an electronic incident, come up to present time
  11. Vir Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    The debt buyback scheme that Nigeria did and Bob Minton helped them with, as attacked in the Fashanu/Scientology report, actually appears to be legal and legitimate. (Buying back your own debts at discount is a bit sneaky morally, but back then the concept was a pretty new one and not explicitly forbidden by the loan contracts. In any case, Nigeria should be happy that they got to pay less debts.)
    Did Scientology find something else that he did which could destroy him? Or was he driven to madness by their hounding?
  12. Herro Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    Lol damn. Scientology used to be able to troll with the best of em. Sad to see how pathetic they are now.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    I agree, I also believe that the SP Times can only take advantage of Scientology's lack of being able to respond to the media with out a futnuke for so long.

    The story seems to be extremely trusting of its informants, and is lacking in the dox department. But what should we expect from the news paper who published the moonbatty DM killing his mother in law story ?

    But I am sure it pissed off the cult in their home town, so I am willing to look the other way.
  14. kitfisto Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    This is fun
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    If someone told me two or so years ago that we would find out about the whole Bob Minton fiasco from Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder I would have laughed. A lot.
  16. Mutante Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    The same John Fashanu who disowned his own brother, Justin, for being gay? The same Justin Fashanu who then committed suicide?

    Sounds like a proper cunt.

    Seems like he kept appropriate company.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    The same John Fashanu who was named one of the worst soccer players of all time, and was famous for playing dirty.
  18. Anonymous Member

  19. Re: SP Times Round Three

    Another excellent series of front page exposés by the St. Pete Times.

    Predictably, the cult again sent out their drones early each morning to clean out stores and newspaper stands selling the papers.

    Apparently they are seriously ascared of Tampa Bay citizens reading the truth. XD
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    ^^^ Tampa area anons should get their camcorders ready tomorrow morning. last chance to film clams buying up SPT.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Except the SP Times, after all the shenanigans of the last two rounds, apparently increased the number of papers they sent out. The failbots neglected to take this into account in their haste to clear away all the nasty entheta, leading to the hilarious situation of shelves being emptied while entire bundles of newspapers sat nearby on the floor. Congratulations, Scientology, you couldn't even clear Cleveland Street.
  22. xenubarb Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    The cult has had a nightmare year, I'd say...starting with the death of Jett Travolta.
  23. xenubarb Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Did anyone get video of them doing it this time?
  24. anonhuff Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Sounds like scientology is reinforcing negative articles about themselves by showing SP times that it generates a great jump in nonsubscription sales on those days. Scientology doesn't "get" the real world.
  25. conatus Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Apologists are whooping and flailing amongst the comments now, led by JamesP and Marie-Jane. Make with the 'pooning, 'pooners.

    How Scientology got to Bob Minton - St. Petersburg Times

    The Scientology Response

    Who's Who In This Installment

    Scientology: What happened in Vegas, Part 2 of 3 in a special report on the Church of Scientology - St. Petersburg Times

    Ex-officer says Scientology policy didn't match directive - St. Petersburg Times
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    I am tempted to send Mr. Childs and Mr. Tobin a fruit basket. Or maybe a Vermont Teddy Bear dressed as Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Maverick!!!
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Those edible flower bouquets are always a classy and traditional touch. Or maybe not.
  28. citizen x Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    found this on the comments section of part two (main page with the pic of the two couples and lubow.)

    breaking my heart in two. seriously. huge hugs to nate and mona!! you keep fighting for your family! THIS IS WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    Same here.
  30. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    OK, this I can do:


    The others are too short to offer much opportunity.

    That would be smart.

    THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    AND THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Also, bracing for round 3 epic.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    If I'm not mistaken, I believe 4 of their 7 daughters are in the cult. :'(
  32. DeathHamster Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

  33. AnonLover Member

  34. mongrel Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

  35. RedOrbifold Member

  36. NCSP Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Anyone know the background on this? Significant flaps in 1996? (PS - Doesn't sound like McPherson.)
  37. Ramona Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    /r/ OP take out entirety of this SP Times article, so people will go THERE to read it and make them feel good.

    mod edit: merged the threads
  38. RedOrbifold Member

    Re: SP Times: How Scientology got to Bob Minton

    how about this
  39. Anonymous Member

  40. OTBT Member

    Re: SP Times Round Three

    Wog law trumps church doctrine

    Does a church school have to pay its employees the "minimum wage"?

    Sorry for flogging the subject of minimum wage again, I'll go away quietly now

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