SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

Discussion in 'St Petersburg Times expose' started by whoever, Jun 20, 2009.

  1. Lorelei Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    Actually, whenever these cult groups bunker up or isolate themselves, I get nervous.

    All too many examples exist of cults who hole up in buildings or isolated retreats and then self-destruct messily.

    When I hear that Anons haven't seen any Scilons scurrying about for a while, which isn't often (and "no" is different from "a greatly reduced number of"), that is the first thing I think about, and I'm never happy about it.

    Jim Jones and The People's temple. Isolated, then self-combusted, and took a bunch of innocent non-cultists and infants out when they did. Don't drink the Flav-R-Ade!

    Heaven's Gate. Made a shiny rainbow website, isolated, then self-combusted...with their Nikes on.

    Luc Jouret and The Solar Temple. Isolated, threw a big wing-ding, self-combusted in great style (and messiness) by burning themselves up in Swiss chalets.

    Then there are stand-offs where authorities respond with superior firepower, and tragedy ensues.

    David Koresh and Waco. Isolated, then pretty much committed "suicide by cop," but not before slaughtering some of their more reluctant or young members first. The FBI's role in this tragedy has been hotly debated and remains controversial.

    John Africa (Vincent Leaphart) and MOVE. Isolated...TWICE. The first time, a cop was killed, arrests were made, and Move's HQ was razed. Isolated again, built up a bunker and stockpiled weapons, held a neighborhood hostage, threatened to shoot LEOs again, then self-destructed long before LEOs could enter their house. 60 homes were burnt to the ground as LEOs attempted to flush the cultists out.

    The alternate scenarios--where cults turn on their own members or branch out and murder non-cultists, but do not then off themselves in a mass suicide before being caught--are NOT much better:

    Manson Family. Isolated, got progressively weirder and more violent, took a couple of roadtrips to slaughter people.

    Gordon Kahl and the Gospel Doctrine Church of Jesus Christ. Racist, anti-government, neo-Nazi. Murdered some U.S. Marshalls, fired upon FBI agents, murdered some sheriff's deputies. Isolated, rigged explosives, died when they went off (as did some LEOs). A hero of Aryan Nations.

    Keith Ham (Kirtanananda) and the New Vrindaban Hare Krishna commune. Isolated, stockpiled weapons, murdered critics and devotees who fell into disfavour.

    Jeffrey Don Lundgren and his "study group" based on RLDS / Mormon scripture. Isolated. Murdered former devotees who had fallen into disfavor. Messily. Included all their small children in his murder spree.

    Adolfo de Jesus Constanzo ("El Padrino") and Sara Maria Aldrette Villareal ("La Madrena"), a personality cult based on Santeria. Recruited drug lords to the fold, indulged in the usual murderous rampages and shitty behaviors associated with drug trafficing. Kidnapped at least twelve innocent victims for palo mayombe-influenced human sacrifices and rituals. El Padrino called his mommy to BAAWWW when the end was clearly near; finally he ordered a lieutenant to shoot him when law enforcement closed in.

    Yahweh Ben Yahweh, a.k.a. Brother Moses (and many more) and his Temple Of Love, a.k.a Nation of Yahweh (and many more). YBY had at least a half dozen former aliases and made attempts at establishing a cult (under various names) in various places. Incited African-American followers to hate whites and tried to incite race riots; murdered eight white vagrants and carried theri ears around. Murdered dissidents and out-of-favour devotees. Like Jim Jones, YBY courted local politicians. Like Scientology, YBY's group formed "amti-drug" front groups. Did not self-destruct when caught, but had an impressive body count by then.

    So, whenever a cult isolates itself...well, yeah. Let's just say I get a wee bit nervous.

    I don't want to see Scientology implode because everyone topped themselves. The only good news about having all the different hives globally is that I doubt an executive order to top themselves would be obeyed in every single hive. Some would live.

    I don't want to see Scientology EXPLODE, either, by engaging in a shoot-out with LEOs. Again, the only good news about having no ONE central hive is that it is unlikely all hives would obey the "Kill the unbelievers, every one!" orders.

    As for the other variation, well, rumours already exist that dissidents and former devotees have been dealt with, "quietly and without sorrow," but PROVING that suspicion is a lot harder than you'd think. Either it isn't true, or SOME people got away with murder and justified it as being "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics." In fact, Lisa McPherson's demise due to isolation, medical malpractice, and deliberate neglect is considered by many to be murder.

    On another note, with Rathbun (in particular) cheerily promoting the idea that all bad in Scientology are due solely to Miscavige, it is not out of the realm of possibility that a fed-up cultist with access to the COB will take DM out with a BOOM! HEADSHOT...and then fall on his or her own sword...while justifying it again as "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics."

    At any rate, I'm hoping the cult dies not with a bang of disaster and death, but a peaceful whimper, and then we can thoroughly salt the earth over its ashes so it can't grow back like the tumour it is.

    Watch out for signs of the cult isolating members more than it already does. It's a seriously bad sign that some shit is going down, and people are about to get hurt more than they already have been, and in a permanent, no reset button, kind of way. I'd find that devastating, personally...and a huge waste.
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  2. pedrofcuk Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    Hubbard biographer Danny Sherman told a story of Miscavige spotting an injured sparrow, talking to it and checking back later to see if it lived. "It was immensely tender.''

    What? Wasn't he hungry at the time?
  3. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    Maybe it was tender, but not juicy?
  4. Obi-Wan-anon Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    This statement brings up a question that maybe the ex-scis can answer - since sci is money driven, and stats oriented, is there an internal fight over the higher-donating culties?

    What I mean, if one org sees a cultie donating large sums, would they try to draw that cultie away from their current "handlers" so that THEIR org gets the stats?

    Or does KSW simply mean that since all income goes towards expansion of the cult, no single org looks better than the rest?

    Perhaps that is why Celebrity Centers were made, for better "control" of the celebs, and allows passing of less money to local orgs (considering that staff salaries are based on org income).
  5. WogoMatic Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    really lieks your incredibly comprehensive post about cults.
  6. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    There is a description of that kind of internal competitiveness in one of the ex-sci interviews available on YT. It's an interview of a woman; I'm not quite sure which one. Perhaps the Italian. I think it was a Mark Bunker interview but not sure of that either.

    Sorry I can't recall more specifics; maybe someone else can. Probably it won't matter, since someone else here can likely provide more details than that interview does anyway.
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    I reckon it's safe to say with almost absolute certainty, that the Int Base will not go down in a mass suicide. The reason: because Miscavige does not have the ideological authority. All of the examples you've cited were situations where the ideological director or leader, took the group down. Miscavige is neither.
  8. TinyDancer Member

  9. Lorelei Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    I will be happy if this is correct.

    I DO NOT want to see yet another Solar Temple, Jonestown, or Heaven's Gate.
  10. CLOCKSHIT Member

    Re: SP Times - Part 1 of 3: Rinder, Rathbun speak out

    THIS ^^^^^
    Hope they find hell comfortable.
  11. [ID] mod edit really strange 4chan link deleted
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