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Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by MICHEL, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. CowBell Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Hey Michel,
    Interesting read. Yes, we have heard theories about the IRS or other governmental agencies controlling Scientology. But it really doesn't make much sense. Why would the IRS have control over Scientology and provide them with tax breaks far beyond what other religions are provided. Why would the IRS allow people to be abused so horribly? Taxes suck, but there is no way the IRS is that sadistic. I really don't see any reason why the IRS would want to own or control Scientology. Shut them down? Maybe at one time. Make them comply with the law? Yes... until they got tired of the fight.

    I think it's more realistic that the IRS & Scientology duked it out over the tax exempt status. Scientology ran the IRS under with a large wave of lawsuits making them go over their legal budget. The IRS capitulated. A deal was brokered. The IRS make Scientology jump through some legal hoops to attempt to comply with tax laws. David Miscavige played ball for a little bit. Set up some corporate shells to make everything look good on paper. But once everybody settled in, David Miscavige appears to be doing pretty much what ever he wants.

    Sure there are many corporate shells and legal gymnastics to make it harder to take down the organization and to make it look legal on paper. According to the IRS agreement David Miscavige isn't supposed to be running Scientology. So he has a puppet board. Fill it with your old adversaries who know the game inside & out. Pay them handsomely. Maybe over time dig up enough dirt so that he has them by the balls. A total carrot & stick approach to controlling the CST.

    Some people have speculated that David Miscavige really isn't the top dog and some other fat cats in the CST are getting rich off of all this. But no one has been able to do more than speculate. No first hand eye witness accounts. No supporting documentation. Either David Miscavige has a puppet board on the CST handsomely paid off. Or it might even be the case where they all have each other by the balls in some sort of Mexican Stand Off, so they resolve their power issue by paying everyone handsomely and keeping them happy. They get money, David get money and power.

    That said, I do think it would be very interesting if the government did an investigation into the board of the CST and how a former IRS adversary sits on it.

    Maybe the CST doesn't get enough exposure to sunlight. I bet some major corruptions charges could be leveled.

    The questions are:
    * What angle would we use?
    * Who would we try to do the investigation?
    * How could we bring it up and put enough pressure an agency to do something about i?

    Heck, we have enough trouble getting any US agency to do anything about the abuses to the people in the SeaOrg.
  2. MICHEL Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides



    Working on it my friend, working on it..

    Michel.
  3. MICHEL Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides


    Hello CowBell,

    I think the best way to expose the Church's corruptions is to back up Kevin Mackey. He is calling a class action against the SUPER POWER project in California and so far we are 56 to ask for the refund of our money. Of course whoever donated any money to the Super Power Project should join us.

    IAS and Super Power claims have started - Ex Scientologist Message Board


    Michel
  4. PodPeople Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Super Power and IAS suits, two seperate class actions, right?
    You'd think after a quarter of a century even Sci's would realise the party line of "pscyhs are the enemy" is bs. Aren't almost all lawsuits and especially mounting pile of SP Declares from/about long time scientologists and even Sea Org staff (not psychs)? wouldn't this be a clue?
  5. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Thanks, Michel, for the fascinating info.
    The control of Scientology by the IRS, or not, is a key point.
    How can we distill the legal data down to a basic certainty to be operated from?
    So, when Scientology fair games me and others is it operating on an IRS mandate?
    The legal structure was designed to be confusing and protect the instigators of the scam.
    To protect future generations we need to unravel the core issues.
  6. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    An excerpt from Dr Robert O Becker M.D.'s book titled "Crosscurrents"

    "The single best guide on electrobiology now available" Louis Selsin editor of Microwave News

    Note from arnie - some context: In the prior section of his book Dr Becker describes the use of 1 to 3 Microamp Direct currents being able to induce broken bones to heal faster....Nota Bene: The E-meter delivers around 80 Microamps to the body, with a portion entering the nervous system - See
    emeter-ani.gif
    LINK

    Italics as in original..

    Page 153

    "Linking Electrical Currents and Cancer Growth

    It seemed to me that any electrical technique capable of stimulating bone growth might also stimulate other types of growth. In 1981, I experimented with human cancer cells in culture, exposing them to levels of DC current equivalent to those present in the area of soft tissue outside of the bone nonunion treated with the 10 microampere technique. The current flow from the implanted electrode to the skin electrode exposes large volumes of tissues to currents and voltages that are below those producing electrolysis. but that are still capable of turning on a growth process. The cancer cells exposed to these electrical factors grew at least 300 percent faster than the controls."

    Skip a few lines to next page:

    "Until I did this experiment, I had believed that cancer cells might increase their growth rate with negative electricity, but that positive electricity might slow or stop their growth. This experiment showed that cancer cells were really very much different that normal cells.. Further it showed that the DC current devices approved by the FDA, were promoters of cancer growth. I reported my results in one of the orthopedic journals, pointing out that the approved DC current technique might stimulate the growth of an unsuspected cancer anywhere within the current pathway.

    In 1981, a team of Japanese investigators reported that mouse bone-cancer cells treated with the same DC technique increased their DNA synthesis (a measure of cell reproduction) by about 200 percent, substantiating my results"

    ------------------

    My question for ex members is, how much time in hours do you estimate that you have you spent "holding the cans" of the E-meter? (getting 8 times the 10 Microamps tissue density needed to [COLOR="Red"]triple[/COLOR] the speed of cancer growth ?

    ------------------

    [color="Lime"]Bonus question[/color]: If TEN microamps TRIPLES the rate of cancer growth, how much would EIGHTY microamps increase cancer growth?

    ----------------

    Dr Robert Becker, an orthopedic Surgeon, is a full professor at the State University of New York and was twice nominated for the Nobel Prize.
  7. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    ^^^^ would explain some things!!
  8. kitfisto Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    ^^^^^FUCKING YIKES!!!!
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    yes lots of (ex) sci have cancer
  10. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Yes, great data to explain premature deaths from cancer in OT7s.
    I wonder if a class action lawsuit would result?
    Thanks Arnie!
  11. CarterUSP Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Great find, Lerma!
    Could this mean that anyone who has had a stress test in the street could sue? If it does indeed promote cancer growth then scilons are actively endangering wogs.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    i like oyur idea
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    SHIT I sat with the cans for 300 hours. Good thing I smoke. No cancer on me.
  14. Re: MICHEL - SOLO NOTS DESTRUCTION!

    Why Do Scientologists Believe?
  15. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Indeed it does, and there are additional risk factors that are difficult to explain in plain ol english. Including a documented increase in the body's own endorphin levels (pain killing, opiate / morphine like peptides that mask pain and bind to the same receptors as morphine!) there is no question that the E-meter raises endorphin levels.. the only question is exactly what is the direct morphine equivalent... There is also a direct hypnotic effect of direct current..noted by Pavlov and other. As DC (Direct current) was known even to the electric healing practitioners of the 19th century to be very harmful, The bulk of the oldest research is likely from experiments done on prisoners at Aushwiitz and Dachau etc..

    There is also a factor of induced metal migration from the E-meter cans into the hands...

    Ah, yep that was my take too... when I found this passage. I had read Becker's first book, but never finished his 2nd.... and am still reading...

    Michael, You know I built e-meters for Scientology briefly in 71 when Delta Meter was making the Mark Vs, in an odd twist Tory Christman was the receptionist, with great legs and white hot pants...
    In the list of "troublesome sources" by Hubbard are included "electronics techs"... seeing as one of the first guys in the biz, Volney Mathison called out Hubbard as a hypnotic fraudster in 1954 it makes sense that another electronics guy would call him out that way 50 years later.. (me).

    Well... I am not a lawyer, though I have survived Us Federal Court, and fired a room full of lawyers to ensure I actually did survive...for a while in RTC vs Lerma I was Pro Se...Perhaps one of the law mavens on the site might opine. LINK

    Certainly this material could form the basis of a lawsuit...a lawsuit from hell that I believe, what is left of Scientology would not survive. It would be a tough row to hoe. There is a phrase called "contributory Negligence" Interestingly, in the IRS settlement with Scientology there is a line that scientology would not assist any lawsuit against the government or its agents.

    The FDA might be named due to contributory negligence. Their original purpose was supposedly to protect the public from harm... seems in the case of $ientology the they have failed miserably.

    The IRS might also be named, as the closing agreement certainly contributed to Scientology's short lived success as a global scam, trading their harms for their victims cash.

    Both entities might limit their exposure by moving to shut the scam down now.

    ---------------

    When I first stumbled upon the information by a one time Nobel Committee Judge, named Bjorn Nordenstrom ( whom I just found that Becker discusses that particular genius in his own book) I believed with all my heart that the last lawsuit from hell, the one that brings Scientology to asset forfeiture - to liquidation to satisfy judgments.... would be a class action lawsuit from hell based on the E-meter.

    we can argue 'beliefs", despicable conduct and psychological and hypnotic techniques forever... but the E-meter is a device .. one that can be measured... that runs direct current though the victim's body.

    It matters not, that David Miscavige said in that Ted Koppel interview "The E-meter does nothing".
    Ignorance of a harm does not relieve the perpetrator of the liability of the harm.
    It matters not that the ignorant consider this stuff 'kooky'

    It is a thing. It can be measured... The E-meter is not a belief. and the hard science that was needed in 1969 during the FDA case now exists.

    IMO it is only a matter of time. Maybe I should start making calls again and see if one of the huge tough law firms in Chicago are in the mood (means "needs some more business" AND has a flush pro-bono fund) to kick the ass of a nutball california cult run by a dwarf and a few fading ex-hollywood-stars.

    I would like being director of a trust, that owned the CST HQ on the hilltop, turning it into a retirement enclave for those whose lives, fortunes and families were stolen for and by Scientology, for The Profit and also make it a museum of abusive conduct.. We could put a sign over the door Never Again!
  16. Goosh Goosh Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    this faggot's thinking with his dipstick

    castrol-use-your-dipstick.jpg
  17. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    You're a bit of a daffy old bird, Lerma, but this gig would be poorer without ya.

    Call those lolyers! The worst they could do is say no.
  18. Anonymous Member

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    To me this looks like a theory by one scientist. I've also read about direct current supposedly used to destroy cancer cells. But unless there are some studies of this I wouldn't treat it as a fact. Chronic stress, loads of smoking and last but not least exposure to blue asbestos would be stronger candidates to show a possible connection between increased rates of cancer and Scientology, in particular with regards to OTs who were on the Freewinds.
  20. pooks Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides


    Arnie's been pushing this theory for years. It's interesting but there are no studies to prove it.
  21. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Read the excerpt again, Dr Becker found it to be true, AND so did a Japanese study.

    So is your use of "one scientist" a false assertion for the sake of fallacious argument?

    And re your reading about somewhere about the use of electricity to kill cancers,,,Yes, at higher currents, currents that cause destructive electrolysis, these were in the ten milliamp range. 100 times what Becker and the Japanese found able to induce an increase i cancer rate of replication, and 1/10th what the E-meter provides for hours....

    And at those current levels, the destruction is non selective.... wherever the electrodes are placed... there is cellular necrosis.. whether cancerous or healthy tissue.

    -----------

    And to Pooks, it is a difficult subject for even bright minds to grasp. And to be accurate, Pooks, I have NOT been pushing the Cancer electricity link, I have been pushing an E-meter electricity - Endorphin link, but as you are unable or unwilling to discern that difference, I suggest that you do what you are good at, as each of us tries to do.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    WHERE U DOX?
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    You are right that I did not fully consider the Japanese study as recounted by Becker. Sorry for that. I would be interested in finding out more about their results from a source independent of Becker. Is there any link or reference to this study?

    I did a bit of googling on this matter (DC against cancer) and the use of direct current against cancer apparently doesn't have to involve high currents, rather the opposite:

    Direct Current Electrification against cancer tumors

    Becker said he was working with 10 microampere, this is similar to the above. I'm not saying that what Dr. Becker said is nonsense and a study such as the one you mention would be relevant (again apologies for not really considering it before), but even one study may not be enough to convince a court.
  24. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Im sorry to have to explain this but your cites (a few which state the data) are using MILLIAMPERES,
    not microamperes.
    a Milliamp, is one thousandth of one ampere...
    a Microamp is one millionth...
    The E-meter provides 80 MICRO amperes. that is .08 of one milliamp
    tests in the milliamp ranges have nothing whatsoever to do as in the milliamp range you get electrolytic action that kills everything.. cancerous or not. also the electrodes used introduce metallic ions that are themselves toxic.

    Your cites are at 1000 times what we are discussing. You are quoting Milliamps... I am quoting MICROamps.

    The studies you have cited have nothing whatsoever top do with Becker' and the Japanese findings, outside of curiosity

    it is a confusing mix of subjects...I KNOW that. The original tomb by Dr Bjorn Nordenstrom was brought to me by a doctor who had read about me from THE RAID article in the Washngton Post, He could not understand it and hoped I would, I fought my way through his dense writing style for weeks before the lights went on and went "OH MY GOD!"
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    you are right about milli and micro. Epic fail on my part.
    The rest of the post still stands.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Just glazing over summaries of the vast studies, with a wide variety of protocols, it was easy to see the one effect that came up the most consistently was increased endorphins. That would explain a lot.

    I noticed in some situations, there were increases in cortisol. Possibility perhaps of significant weight gains some have noted.

    The cancer effect studies are important. What all this reminded me, however, is a glaring fact. Most have seen ads for the many types of electric stimulators sold in the Fitness industry. Every item is required to include this Warning:

    "The long-term effects of chronic electronic stimulation are unknown"

    Now my question would be: Why doesn't the FDA require that same warning label on E-Meters? Or does it already?
  27. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Source
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    What's "negative" (or "positive" for that matter) electricity?
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Not a technical or medical person, but I do know much more is known today in general about stress from any source, long term, deteriorating the immune system.

    Look at staff, cancer rates, yet little auditing. Yes, there's smoking, physical neglect on many fronts and psychological stress as well.

    Public on OT Levels, seeing Michel's alarming report of high % of illness, especially cancer, suggests stress long term as well, perhaps from electric current Daily. I would have to guess though that the psychological stress of having to first conjure up ghosts and then get rid of them must be an additional drain.

    My non scientific conclusion:

    "Continued exposure to Scientology results in a breakdown"
  30. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    heh, I thought about leaving that sentence out rather than have to explain it.

    In tests done by inserting a needle into the tumor and then using a large pad on the skin nearby, there were noted different effects if the needle was positive in relation to the other or negative. This could be explained by the induced ion migration - the fact that the metal atoms in the needle itself will tend to drift off into the tissues - becoming participants in the cellular destruction.

    negative is where the electrons come from (you would think it was the positive as voltages are stated in + Volts... this confusion was due to an bad assumption back in the 18th century... It may have been Ben Franklin's fault, or Charles Volta, or Michael Faraday... and has plagued those who try to study electronics ever since...

    ie. the positive terminal of a battery is where the electricity GOES - not where it comes from. The direction the electron flow goes is from neg to positive, which induces atoms from the positive side to migrate, towards the negative charge after being ionized (having one or more of their outer electrons stripped away BY the voltage - which is what happens...

    Positive or negative does not much matter in regards the E-meter, as the e-meter cans - one is positive one is negative... and which one you pick up is entirely due to chance...whether current goes from left hand to right or the other way... is not an issue of merit.

    I hope this helps more than it confuses.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Depleted Cranium

    It always bothers when a "researcher" need to resort to conspiracy theories to defend his work from criticism.
  32. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    Well you are in good company, you see, those that oppose the mere "claim" that low voltage does bad stuff to human bodies include

    Such MAINSTREAM corporate monsters such as
    power companies,
    nuclear energy industry,
    Transmission line operators
    and cell phone industries...
    Wifi providers
    Trunkline microwave telco operators
    which all generate EMF's...
    which directly induce eddy currents in human tissue.
    and
    Scientology "The _meter does nothing"


    So the big corporate money opposes this idea, and funds research and public relations to 'make nothing of it" and make nothing of those who think there is something to it.

    By similar logic, you should not listen to me either, because there is a web page run by scientology that says bad things about me.

    And that site quotes colloidal silver as evidence of quackery... well my friend, read more history, silver was prized not just cause it was pretty, but because those that ate on silver plates and used silver utensils did not get sick as often... and I dont recall the source... might have been a Penny Magazine article from 1830...trace silver does kill bugs, that is why it is EPA Approved for use in carbon water filters to keep bacteria from growing there. And an outfit called DeDe has an actual FDA approved antimicrobial... that is made of colloidal silver, but your post is about a site trying to destroy the reputation of Dr Becker.. so people will not listen to him. Perhaps they should pick on someone their own size.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    It's not "oppose," it's sticking to "dox or gtfo." The skepticism I have here is the exactly the same skepticism that prevents me from swallowing Scientology's "detox" as "real cure shot down by mainstream medicine because of financial stakes etc," as the Scientologists like to claim.
  34. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    no... you anonymously resort to the use of dead agenting pages for Dr Becker.
    You should also dead agent the Japanese
    and Dr Hooshmand... so get busy, dox or GTFO


    If you want justice seek the truth
    if you want the truth
    follow the money. Solon 500 BC
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    The page does provide some balance to the "appeal to authority" in your post ("twice nominated for the Nobel Prize")
  36. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    The following from a member, A Judge, of the Swedish Nobel Committee, Dr Bjorn Nordenstrom from his book Biologically Closed Electrical Currents - BCEC - in the Human Body, 1983

    Wiki: In modern medicine, the term tumor is synonymous with a neoplasm that has formed a lump. In the past, the term tumor was used differently. Some neoplasms do not cause a lump
  37. ArnieLerma Member

    Re: Solo NOTs auditors - data on total numbers and cancer and suicides

    from Electromagnetics Ecology - Stray Voltage in the Dairy Industry prepared by Duane A Dahlberg PHD and Lawrence L Falk, PhD - JAN 1995 pg 33:

    Wiki def: Necrosis (from the Greek νεκρός, "dead", νέκρωσις, "death, the stage of dying, the act of killing") is the premature death of cells and living tissue. Necrosis is caused by factors external to the cell or tissue, such as infection, toxins, or trauma. This is in contrast to apoptosis, which is a naturally occurring cause of cellular death. While apoptosis often provides beneficial effects to the organism, necrosis is almost always detrimental and can be fatal.

    [bold emphasis is mine] [e-meter = 80 uA, 80 microamps direct current]
  38. Scatman Member

    Richard Reiss, Senior C/S Flag Service Org, Class XII and NOTs, died on 4 March 2011 at a hospice in Palm Harbor, Florida (near Clearwater) from a Brain Tumor. He was 66 years old.
    Scientology really works.
  39. pooks Member


    Obviously he had overts due to MU's.

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