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so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Spangly, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. themadhair Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Diversify not narrowify. It has been our approach from day 0 of chanology. Try everything we have at our disposal.

    Anybody telling you not to do something needs to have a damn good reason. I don’t see the reason for abandoning OT3 given in this thread. Anyone suggesting to dump OT3 for any other technique is full of fail. We can do BOTH techniques. Mary Jo’s KR shouldn’t replace OT3 – it should compliment it.

    Tl;dr:
    Use all means at our disposal. Anyone arguing to drop a trick needs to present a decent reason or STFU.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Dear Anonymous:

    Please assist us in our palace coup
    TICK TOCK DAVEY
  3. Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Hmm. Wonder if that's the same Panther who's the forum's newest member, but has yet to post?
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    He Lurks!
  5. Spangly Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    If he is lurking and reading this and thinking about posting, I would urge him to send me a forum-PM first (just click on my nickname in the left-hand column, then pick "send a private message to" from the popup menu).

    He should PM me with some mention of detail from the parts of our IRC private-message chat that weren't posted here (i.e. the otherwise-irrelevant greetings/partings) so I can verify it's actually him. Otherwise, I'd have to presume it's a faker.
  6. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Wow, some of you guys are so touchy! OK, so I was probably too tired last night, I'll say what I had to say and leave it be...

    First, I wasn't criticising the SH demo Saturday, just disappointed, I was hoping for a big noisy effort, not least as a decoy for my little Op. But well done for being there and doing your thing. I said I was going to help, and I meant it. We do what we do in different ways.

    Second, I can tell you categorically Marty has no intention of going back into the church in any guise. None. Zip. But why even talk about it? He is doing more than anyone to bring down the current structure, so just let him get on with it.

    Third, I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do or how to do it. I only offer some info from "the other side" you can take it or leave it. I can't see how attacking a SUBJECT is going to endear yourselves to the public at large. C of S does NOT EQUAL scientology. DM or OSA does NOT equal scientology. You may find the subject weird, disturbing or just pathetic, but try and take away people's right to study it and you've lost the popular vote, IMHO. You become book-burners, which plays directly into Miscaviges hands. The correct target is the human rights abuses, the ridiculous practices such as the RPF (which I've done by the way), disconnection, forced abortions etc. Pitch those and you can't lose.

    Fourth, following on from that, "reality" is a real word in the dictionary, spangly, but let me put it another way. Scientologists - vast majority - are well meaning decent people. Sorry if that disappoints but it's true. They just wanted to help and make things better. I see those that haven't "woken up" yet more as victims than perpetrators. When they find out they have been lied to, tricked and betayed they will get pissed, and will take action themselves, as they are doing. Jo Leavitt and Sherry and all the others will talk to their OT VIII buddies and so on. The point is not to nit-pick about the way they speak or whatever, just back them up! If anyone can talk to OTs still in the church in a way that gets home, then do it. That's all I was saying. Name-calling, slagging off scientologese, all these things are a waste of time.

    Fifth, ...I've forgotten. Better do the cause resurgence rundown again!

    Sixth, keep up the good work:)
  7. LilDebbie Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    i lol'd

    also cool story, bro and rathbun-bot is rathbun.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Wow. Were we supposed to turn in our weekly time cards and progress reports? Is that how you're able to measure who is doing what/how much?








    Pssst - one would hope he, especially, is doing more than those who were never in the cult but have been working for almost two years to help those gullible enough to join in the first place...
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    snote.jpg
  10. Suzette Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Unfortunately, yes. There's no data to back up the 8-12 million. It's believed that what really happened is that someone had to say how many church members there were, and it had to be over a million. Then every time they were asked again, it had to get bigger.

    There's quite a few places online which discuss this, and I was going to link to one, but the one I thought was best done is eluding me. Anyhow, the best estimates are something like a peak of 200,000 with current membership being under 100,000 with a large margin of error.

    The 20 million copies of Dianetics are harder to tease apart because it's known that Scientologists were buying copies to keep it on the bestseller lists, and even shipping their extra copies back to the church so that they could ship them back to bookstores and sell them to Scientologists again. But you can see that if they had 200,000 members and 20,000 of them were obedient enough to buy some extra copies, then one extra copy a week for a year would be a million copies a year and would account for it. In fact, Arnie Lerma's page gives sales figures much less than a million a year, which makes sense because it's actually spread out over more than 50 years now.
  11. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Yes, all stats to be reported by 2pm thursday please
  12. stuwyatt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Thanks for coming in here and clarifying a few things. I think what aggrieved most people was the arrogant and self-important way that you came across in the chat (and to a certain extent in this thread)...

    Please remember that some of us have been working consistently hard since the Tom Cruise leak video, and some of the OG have been hard-working critics for many years. There is a lot going on that you do not know about, and there are many people who are working behind the scenes who have been doing exactly what you suggested since day one.

    Just please cut down on the arrogance and self-importance (whether it was intentional or not), and you will find that in many respects, we are reading off the same page.

    Unfortunately though, I believe that you are very misguided and misinformed about Marty Rathbun's intentions. I also believe that you have also yet to fully understand that the tech that you follow was written by a paranoid schizophrenic who was high on psych drugs, and the majority of his 'tech' was stolen from other self-help methodologies. But I am sure that given time, you will be able to see through the bullshit that is LRH tech...
  13. anonbrit Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther, once you accept that LHR was full of shit and that it was/is just a mind-fuck, then we can talk.

    Until YOU understand what scientology was mean't for then I have nothing but contempt for you and your brainwashed kind.

    I will not be PA'd into taking down only Miscavige and leaving the LRH's fanatics to continue to mind-fuck other people on the outside.
  14. greebly Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    that's great news sir we need more people like them to help collect info and they can help in the background until theri confidence and courage returns
  15. Spangly Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther has PMd me, but all he said is "yet its me" - made no effort whatsoever to provide the confirming detail I asked for.

    Right now, the Panther user here is not proven to be the guy that I had the conversation with last night, as far as I'm concerned.

    Maybe he's just really arrogant and lazy, believing we have some sort of duty to automatically believe him and follow him unquestioningly without his providing proof? Sounds fairly cultish to me!
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    It's not the messenger, it's the message. Anonymous should know that.
    Whoever this panther guy is, he does have a point.
    Get $cientologists to fight amongst themselves and get rid of DM - we'll see how things develop from there. In the meantime, we do what we do best.
  17. RosyGlass Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    True, the dedicated still in will listen to Reports from OTees. True, too, you have 2 publics: New, raw and Old, putrifying. Seems to me Anon's doing just fine. Ex's like me, maybe can help translate the psychobabble. As far as pissing off those still in, tuff. Anyone still in these last years has seen and heard plenty, even if they don't know all. Far as I'm concerned, they're the ones left with the $$$ and supporting that psychopatch so they can help themselves to those supa dupa powerz. they deserve goin down in flames with the minion. And they are fewer and fewer. This latest IAS extortion event I'm hoping will break the dam wide open.
  18. Azazel Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    I would like to remind everyone the [IMG] on WTF's post works and it is more effective then contributing too and hence, derailing this thread.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Chill out..he's simply saying that stuff like Marty's Thirty-One Factors and the stuff from the various newly out OT8s will get through to the scilons and have a significant effect, whereas lolling at the flaws in their ideology wont - we know this to be true, irresspective of Panther's credentials.

    He/she isn't trying to "personal army" anon - simply pointing out that trolling the fuck out of Little Davey will yield the maximum lulz.

    Remember: whether they realize it or not, the average scilon has been indoctrinated into a fairly selfish mindset - as long as their case is OK they're pretty good at turning a blind eye to their Church's numerous "outpoints" - but their "out of sight, out of mind" tech isn't effective when COB's abuses directly impact their personal reality.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    What ever we have been doing is making them doubt. It is there job to figure out how to deal with us. This is their first attempt to try to do something. I don't think this is the best idea they can come up with. I vote to keep on doing what we have doing without taking their advice and see what they come up with next.

    When this guy says things like there will be some kind of examination of the entire structure of Scientology after DM leaves he shows his inner moon bat.
  21. Relyt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther is right, though, in that sending out the message of bad management is what gets their attention. Trying to go straight into "Hey! The tech doesn't work! LRH is a fraud!" puts them off almost instantly. That's something they're going to have to figure out on their own. A lot of Scientologists who leave the church, and still remain to be Scientologists, end up abandoning it altogether after doing some extensive reading on the internet.

    Of course encouraging them to question the tech may work on newer recruits who still have some sanity left, but you're targeting mostly people who have been there for many years, who would never even think about being skeptical about the tech, let alone listen to someone who is.

    And in the end, what are you trying to do? Dismantle Scientology, or make sure no one ever practices the tech ever again? If you answered "yes" to the second one, then good luck with that... it would be like trying to convince devout religious people to become atheists. Like, if you had 10,000 of them in a room, you might convince like 10 of them, at the most, if you're lucky.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    That was NOT panther's point.

    Panther's point was that Anonymous needs to stop criticizing the fraud that is Hubbard's Scientology and focus narrowly on dismantling current management.

    I disagree fundamentally with panther on his main point.

    Observations that current abuses create doubts in scilons is not news. WWP already have many threads stretching back over 18 months on that point, including a nice juicy one on Leavitt's (sp?) knowledge report.

    Panther is dead wrong to believe that we don't save many PCs and potential scientology dupes by exposing Xenu, body thetans, NOTs, R6 implants, Marcabian invader forces, black body thetans, Teegeeack, Helatroban cloud implants, thetan clusters, Marsian implant stations, Hubbard's Venetian adventures and the rest of Hubbard's space opera fiction.

    For Panther's sake I hope it learns that:
    First, you doubt CO$ mgmt
    Then, you ask what else is fishy
    Then, you discover Hubbard was a liar
    Then, you realize all of Scientology starting with Dianetics was a fraud

    Other than that third sentence I agree with the poster I quoted.

    tl;dr Chanology kicks arse; Let the lulz reign.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Stats?

    Dox?
  24. Relyt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    I'm giving an example through predictive comparison while trying to give some advice. What about you?
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...


    Missing you...
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    I think you're misconstruing Panther's point here - Panther isn't even addressing Anon's efficacy in stifling the influx of raw meat, but rather the fact that the Anon protests largely "fall on deaf ears" when it comes to hardcore indoctrinated scilons like the IAS members (however I think Panther is maybe downplaying Anon's role in creating a climate where they would even consider flyering the St Hill car park).

    As far as "what is true for Panther" is concerned (and Rathbun, Rinder and their OT8s, for that matter) : there's probably no question in their minds that COB is using "Black Dianetics"..hopefully it's a pretty shallow gradient that leads them to the cognition that:

    Scientology™ is basically "Black Dianetics".
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    When he complains about not get the attention of Scientologists he is wrong. We have their attention and they just don't like being forced to think about what is going on.

    4024548038_5efee5bb1d.jpg
  28. anonbrit Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Relyt:
    And in the end, what are you trying to do? Dismantle Scientology, or make sure no one ever practices the tech ever again? If you answered "yes" to the second one, then good luck with that... it would be like trying to convince devout religious people to become atheists.

    scientology is not a religion according to LRH you retard. Get over it
  29. anonbrit Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    The intent of LRH writing dianetics and scientology was solely for the purpose of OWNING willing slaves. He did not start out to make a religion but once he realised he could keep all the money for himself under the veil of religion he turned scientology into one.

    LHR dabbled very heavily into Satanism, that is were he came up with many of his policies. They are practically word for word Crowley's own believe that one can control other people to do your bidding and become your willing slaves.
  30. Relyt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Did I say it was a religion? Also, you missed the point and are resorting to OSA-like personal attacks. Perhaps you should reevaluate your message, then get back to me with an intelligent statement.
  31. anonbrit Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Fuck off Reylt you TWAT. There you go.

    The tech is cancer. If you cannot understand that it was created to ensnare people using Crowley's methods then there really is no hope for you.

    LRH TECH IS THE ENSLAVER, just as it was created for.
  32. mrfyde Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    take it to the "Is Scientology Satanic thread", I will meet you there.
  33. Relyt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Just curious: Are you a social worker, or do you use tinfoil as toilet paper? I need to know this information, it's for science.
  34. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Hubbard went to Venice? I missed that one.

    Panther: welcome to the fun house. :) I'm glad you decided to come by after all.
  35. moreanonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Crowley had no such "believe." Nor was he a satanist. But don't let that keep you from frothing at the mouth.
  36. Relyt Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Exactly. Being friends with Crowley doesn't make him a Satanist. And even if he was a Satanist, that doesn't make him a bad person either. You're (anonbrit) probably one of those people who think Satanism = sacrificial rituals and bloodletting. But that's beside the point. No need to go off on a huge tinfoilly rant.
  37. leech Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    As much as I tried to stifle it, I lol'd. Then farted.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    Panther might know of the mismanagement of the Scientology organizations and how they keep people on courses for outrageous amounts of time.
    It started out as Once Upon A Time In Clearwater - your needle was floating,
    then went to Lock down after course at Flag: Ethics interviews

    Panther should be made aware of the evidence that both Marty and the present management of CoS are insiders that know that LRH was a liar and made a con man. Son of L. Ron Hubbard Outs His Father as Fraud part 1

    I think that 99% of the protests do a fantastic job at inoculating the public. From what I understand some of the few that do still get lured in often come into contact with anons. Many of these probally won't last very long in the cult, and the stats show the majority the do the courses leave after 2 or 3 years. The cult has not had very much lucky with getting a good deal of productivity from the orgs. Much of every ones work is done by management since their notorious for bad behavior these days. The comm line engines just have to keep running so that people have the option to hear the truth and get educated.

    I wonder if the actions of protest from within the cult are attributed to external sources like anonymous. When an event occur and any kind of enturbulation happens, the points goto anons or protesters.

    If Panther is lurking I want him to know that in my opinion, no matter who the COB is, there will always be abuse within the entanglement of Scientology. It is not just that the present form of the organization is mismanaged or malformed, the LRH tech does not work.
    I will point to a Not So Recent account of the RPF at PAC Base
    The works of LRH seems to be not better than eatting suger. For a while you have WINS and it feels great, but you find your self always striving for the impossible sometimes harming others along the way.
  39. Panther Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    If Panther is lurking I want him to know that in my opinion, no matter who the COB is, there will always be abuse within the entanglement of Scientology. It is not just that the present form of the organization is mismanaged or malformed, the LRH tech does not work.

    It just so happens I was lurking! I'm not going to disagree with you on any of those points, it's just for me right now the debate about the merits or otherwise of Hubbard's work is for another day. Each individual can make his/her own mind up about it. I say let's concentrate on what we do agree on unreservedly; the current CofS is weak and vulnerable in certain areas, eg, human rights abuses.

    BTW, don't think for a minute that those in Marty's camp don't appreciate what you do or lessen its impact. Here's just 1 example from yesterday:

    Paolo // October 18, 2009 at 9:16 pm | Reply

    Susan/Glibby,

    My 2 cents here: anonymous has every right to exist and has done a lot to fight the abuses in the C.of S.

    I am convinced that without anonymous we would not have gotten to the point of having blogs like this one.

    Anonymous has its means and ways that sometimes are different than ours, yet I personally respect that group and I actually think that although there are differences, anonymous stands like we do for a very important target: get the abuses ended in the C.of S. be it financial abuses, fraud, splitting families, etc.

    Even if sometimes are “funny” in their ways, the people of anonymous have done a lot to get the truth rundown started. Having read wwp I can say that although they may have their sometimes (to me) strange ways, the great majority of them is moved by a genuine desire to help and do something for other people who are in distress.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: so, some guy PMs me on irc, dumps this on me and begs me to share it...

    He knows how to check cult-site stats but had to ask how2reg on WWP...

    yeah.

    So what if scilons get pissy about OT level materials? It'll keep new victims away from them and that's pretty much all one has to do to see them crumble and fall. It'd be stupid to stop preaching lolTech at teh protests cos it serves a different purpose than to get old headwashed people out.

    But using the "these are the documented crimes/outpoints/withold/overts of the management" isn't a bad thing either.

    Calls for DP.....the holes are so close anyway so why not use them.

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