Customize

So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

Discussion in 'CoS Front Groups' started by Burnt2, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Burnt2 Member

    So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Here's what he had to say:

    -it has a 78-80% success rate for treating severe depression (backed up by numerous peer reviewed journals) after around 4 treatments. That's an incredible success rate

    -it's done under general anesthesia in an operating room (patient is sedated with propofol - look it up) and paralyzed to stop muscle contractions. exactly what is used for some general surgeries. He said it is very peaceful - there is no spasming/convulsing. The patient just lies there, looks like they are sleeping for the whole procedure.

    - If he had severe depression he would choose electroshock therapy over other therapies any day.

    - Patients have no recollection of the procedure, and usually only have to stay in the hospital three hours or so while the propofol wears off and to monitor for a headache.
  2. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    And we care why?
  3. Burnt2 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Because the scientology "industry of death" exhibit goes to great lenghts to promote EST as a brutal torture device that hurts people and doesn't help them at all.

    Pictures of kids tied down in rooms that look like morgues from the 1950's with vague bloodlike spatters on the wall, screaming and convulsing, turned into vegetables, etc etc etc.
  4. anon7846 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Let them.

    Psychiatry is a gray issue. Talking about it gets too complicated.

    We're not a personal army for Psychiatry, or whatever else Scientology chooses to attack.

    Keep the focus on RTC, CO$T, etc.
  5. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Yeah, I don't care if electroshock therapy is 100% effective, the only reason I care about CCHR is because it's a CoS front.

    In order for your post to be relevant you need to cite sources and studies which back up this doctors claim. I'm not saying it's not true but it needs more than "I just spoke to"

    Beyond that, the CCHR has much more appalling stances that can be more easily attacked then whiping out some study. Now if such a study exists excellent, toss it out there and lets see what can be done with it.

    Which is why I posted the "and we care why?"
  6. Evil Zoe Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Not sure that this topic is relevant here on Enturbulation, but I was interested in what you posted, if that means anything.

    <--suffers from severe depression and has for a lifetime.
  7. Anoncracy Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I do care personally, because I have a friend who is undergoing EST.

    Maybe people could theme their signs and stuff towards that and protest outside the exhibit.

    HOWEVER, on the whole I agree that it's not relevant for typical protests.
  8. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    CCHR-Scientology: The Industry of Lies.
  9. Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    ^this

    ... why the shit did you post this in General Discussion. This has nothing to do with anything.
  10. Stoopkid Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    It is used in only the most extreme cases and is very successful. It's not painful and has evidence behind it. But it's not like they will listen to us, they will just keep spouting"IN PSYCHIATRY IF U FEELA LITTLE SAD THEY WILL ELECTROCUTE UR BRAIN AND PUMP U FULL OF 9001 DRUGS. IN SCIENTOLOGY WE SAY HAY MAYBE DERE'S A BETTER WAY!!1"
  11. anon7846 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Can't troll a troll. They troll Psychiatry. Let them.

    Any publicity is bad publicity for Scientology at this point.
  12. Burnt2 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock


    Uh, I just thought it was interesting - didn't realize you needed an exhaustive literature search to post on enturb.


    Sorry it was posted in the wrong sub forum...guess I thought it was relevent enough for general discussion in light of how the CoS views psychiatry.
  13. Evil Zoe Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    We all step wrong in here sometimes...lol

    Don't let the comments get you. People are pretty straightforward around these h'yere parts.
  14. downstat Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    THUNDeR DOME! ThUNDAR THUNDAR THunDAR domes!
  15. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Sorry to hear that.

    Some one claiming to treat severe depression with a close to an 80% success rate. Well I'd want to see papers on it an studies out the ass verifying it.

    And yes I do come on strong but debating hearsay stories, well it's pointless.

    No need to dome this, not a flamefest and while a topic which should probably discussed on another board (like a support group for those suffering for depression) I'm not entirely sure the relevance.
  16. Evil Zoe Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Heh, it isn't as though I'd just jump out there and demand the therapy because of a post on a message board...lol It did make me want to research it, however.
  17. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Well, I kinda appreciated the info on EST as it currently. But yeah. CCHR is fail.
  18. Marc Abian Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    This should probably be in Education or Front groups. More than likely Front groups since the Psycheout board is gone.
  19. Evil Zoe Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I think it could safely live its life in Off Topic. I mean, it IS kind of interesting.
  20. Burnt2 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock


    Same doc said that meds usually only have a 34% chance at helping with depression, councelling has about the same success rate.

    here's an abstract of sorts talking about the 80% rate - it says there's also a 60% relapse rate.
    Major Studies on ECT for Depression: What Have We Learned? - Psychiatric Times

    Here's a cursory lit search on my favorite journal site using the terms ECT and depression:
    OhioLINK EJC - Search Results
    several articles on there cite roughly the same 80% percentage.
  21. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Nice job Burnt2, that is my kryptonite right there, papers and facts will shut me up. :cheers:

    I shall now leave you all to debate the studies and so on. :guyfawkes:
  22. Burnt2 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    It's never to wrong to question and look at sources. Unfortunately, with medicine (and science in general) I've found that studies tend to get refuted by newer studies, so it's kind of a system of circular reliance. Not ideal, but it's the best we've got, and certainly better than what the Co$ is relying on.
  23. number 6 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    At least medicine changes with new discoveries. All Scientology has are the mad rantings of that fat bastard.

    Maybe this should go in Think Tank, or even Off Topic.
  24. Anonymousedk Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Come on guise. It's quite interesting. It's good for websites detailing the lies of scientology. I might use it (after looking a bit more into it).
  25. UnknownEntity Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Dude, who do you think is financing this operation?
  26. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Might just move this one to front orgs. It's been here a while and the front orgs forum could do with some love and some resources for those looking at CCHR etc.
  27. musketeerwang Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I really don't understand why you *wouldn't* want to be able to refute claims about psychiatry that Co$ uses to further its own aims.

    I don't care what you think about psychiatry - telling people that ECT is barbaric (not true) and still used (true, but in this very different form) is a major win for CCHR and Co$. By giving people the facts, whatever the issue, you innoculate them against Scilon bullshit propaganda. This is no different, no more a grey area than the tax issue is. There are plenty who would argue that a religion (as Co$ already is in the states) should have tax breaks, just as many would argue that they're right to be against ECT. Both groups are wrong, and I'm not going to shy away from refuting bad info about either issue, or anything else that Co$ sticks its oar into. I was doing this before throwing my lot in with anonymous, and I'll be doing it if it all goes tits up at some point (xenu forbid).

    Not everything posted here has to be about the primary consensus focus, does it?
  28. Vir Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I like the CCHR because it is one of the things that bring out the most batshit insane conspiracy nuttery from the Co$.

    Thanks for the thread, and the sources.
  29. romanonandon Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I too suffer from severe depression and ECT has saved my life. The procedure is humane and not painful at all. Little confusion right after the treatment, but that goes away quickly. Just one of the many reasons I fight Scientology and CCHR.
  30. spiral Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    the variety of ECT that CCHR go on about isn't the modern method... its the old when where they *did* tie people down and let them convulse (my mother had it close to 30 years ago. she said it was the one most painful experience of her life and all it did was wipe her short term memory). just another example of where most things scientology related are decades out of date
  31. Anonat Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I spoke to my clinical team manager (I work in psychiatry) about it and she said much the same - it's very effective in cases of severe depression, doesn't do much anything for mild depression, is painless if done correctly. but some people experience some vague memory-loss symptoms afterwards.

    i guess the point is sometimes it ISN'T done correctly and it's a very contentious issue anyway because, no one really knows WHY it works. from what i recall from psychology A level (oh dear) there was some theory about it working because it stimulates the blood flow in the brain, but no one knows for sure.

    that makes it a little EEK to me but then, we don't know a lot of stuff. scientists don't really know why we YAWN but no one's particularly freaked about that.
  32. Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Guys, the relevance is actually pretty damn high for any anons planning to pull a raid on the anti-psych demos. The Scilons will use every fact in the book, and some that maybe aren't. that supports their view, in addition to just making shit up. Even though anti-psychiatry has been voted down as a general theme, and quite rightly, anyone going after it in a specific fashion needs these kinds of things.

    Definitely not off-topic or thunderdome.
  33. Peregrine Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I know someone who went through the "old style" EST. Yes, it used to be brutal. Things have gotten better since those days. The electic current used now is far less than was originally used.

    Even at the levels of shock used in the old days it was, and remains, one of the best treatments for severe and "refractory" (untreatable) depression. Psychiatrists will usually try other forms of therapy first but EST can save a life where all else fails.

    And as was stated in the OP it's not a painful procedure.
  34. dwest Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Thanks. I was just going over to OhioLink myself when I saw your link. Saved me a lot of searching.
  35. Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Sorry I don't have dox for this, but I did see a documentary about treatments for severe/untreatable depression, and it featured ECT - even filmed one guy going through it. Is exactly like what has been described here - under anesthetic, no convulsions, peaceful, etc.

    What was really interesting was a very experimental program involving a sort of mini-ECT that they were trying on some patients that were helped by EST but would relapse more quickly than most. This one man had had little electrodes surgically implanted into his brain on the areas of the brain that needed to be effected by the ECT. When he felt he was slipping again into a depression, he could hook his electrodes up to a box that he could trigger to send the current. It was MUCH less than the in-hospital ECT, but seemed to keep him stable for longer amounts of time.

    So, they are even finding ways to make ECT safe enough to be used at home for the people who need it most.

    Again...sorry no dox. I'm sure anyone who wants moar info can find it.
  36. nightfire Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    The effectiveness of Treatment depend on the type of depression that you have
    *NEWS FLASH SCIENTOLOGY THEY CAN PROVE CHEMICAL IMBALENCE*

    If you are depressed because something bad happened in your life
    30-40% sucess with meds 40-60% with takl therapy
    If you have a chemical imbalence (proved through clinical diagnosis)
    50-75% sucess with meds 30-40% with talk therapy
    although it takes time to find the "right" med for you *long sucky process*
    Chemical imbalence as proven through biopsy (yup they biopsy your brain!)
    75-95% sucess rate

    these figures are dependent on Which study you belive, and Where it was done, and WHEN it was done.....

    If you are like me and have Seasonal Effective Disorder
    All you need is a happy light box for 1-6 hrs a day
    GoGo medical science that CAN reproduce its results time after time
  37. Burnt2 Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I think I saw that documentary a long time ago in undergrad psych......does it show a suicidally depressed violin player who goes in for the ECT? I remember it worked for him, although it took a while for him to regain his violin skillz
  38. Anonabliss Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Being informed about what we're fighting is never irrelevant. Give the kid a break.
  39. Grunce Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    Which makes sense when you think about it. ECT is only prescribed for the most severe cases of depression, and depression usually has some pretty deep underlying causes. So someone has been pushed into a depression so deep that ECT gets prescribed, it's not too surprising if the same causes bring about depression again.
  40. luckystrikes Member

    Re: So I just talked to a psychiatrist about electroshock

    I don't know if I agree with completely discrediting their claims about psychiatry. I'm not a $cientologist, and I treat my psychological disorders without psychiatry, because I feel that there are other options (for me) and that those drugs may just be poison on the long run. I'm not saying that no one should be treated psychiatrically, but that at the same time I believe that it's an industry that buys out doctors with incentives for prescribing their meds, and that we should definitely take some and leave some. Psychiatric meds are not always necessary, though they do help some people's quality of life.

    As for electroconvulsive therapy, I think it's a touchy subject. First of all, depending on the country, it can be given involuntarily which is quite scary on its own. It's also a women's rights issue, since the majority of people diagnosed with depression are women and the majority of people treated with ECT are also women. Although it may have no doubt helped some, it has caused others great pain and trauma, sometimes leading to suicide.

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins