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Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

Discussion in 'Translation and Text Composition Projects' started by anonimo, Mar 3, 2008.

  1. anonimo Member

    Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Why not translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation.org
    into other languages thus getting more people to take effective action as we do?


    I'm referring to the pages Home, Activism, Overview of Scientology, Who We Are and Donate, not the forum itself.

    Enturbulation.org is the number one place for people to discuss action against the frauds and abuses of Scientology leading to specific results in form of efficient protest and campaigning. For a big part of the people critical of CoS, it probably is THE entrance place to get started promoting the cause of Anoynmous with real actions.

    So the idea is to make this entrance even more inviting to people whose mother tongue isn't English. A lot of people know English but maybe feel unsecure and lazy thinking that they have to write in English and might not want to read through an English text. Also, they won't be able to grasp at first glance the idea of the place, as they first have to do the effort of translating-reading through. Yet I'm sure people eagerly would click on a symbol with there country's flag. It's like that, were're lazy and want info fast if we don't know what something is about.

    Having translated these cover pages we would get more people instantly informed about what is happening here at enturbulation.org, what potential the site has, that there are already over 7.000 Anonymous from all over the world united in the place and how they can benefit and contribute greatly being part of the forum. We'll also tell them that the forum itself is in English, of course, but that there are also sections for all the regions of the world (where they needn't talk in English) and encourage them to participate.

    Well, I guess, this might sound like marketing in a way. I'm talking about how to let all the potential anons out there know quickly what the website (and the Anonymous cause) is all about and how it could satisfy their necessities (as we asume that they already have seen part of the outrages truth about Scientology's activities and therefor feel the urge to fight it). The idea is to let them know the easiest way possible that this might be a place where they can act upong this urge, where they can help fight the CoS.

    I also advocate the translation now because it's a quick way of opening up to a greater public in a relatively easy way. Enturbulation is an central point of communication and Anonymous would profit of getting more people from all around the world to share the forum. Especially after 3/15 they will seek this site. Those people will surely to be highly motivated when they leave, like I was when I came for the first time, having had the opportunity to see a place where people are taking real action and having seen that there are A GREAT LOT of people doing so. Also they will be confronted with lots of vital information in the forum.

    Well, this is my suggestion, give me your point of view now and ideas on how we get it done...


    anonimo


    PS: The translation of the Road to February 10 video[/url:2zcvw55o] to Spanish[/url:2zcvw55o], French[/url:2zcvw55o] and German[/url:2zcvw55o] will hopefull soon be accomplished. We could point out at the end of all the versions that Enturbulation is the place to share in the activism. (Please also looks at the translation projects.)
  2. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Although I don't think this thread is completely off topic in the discussion section,it may fit better in the activism section. So please Mister Webmaster, move it there...
  3. gregg Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Another great idea. And we have the wiki and translation threads. We should get the teams to work on that and get enturbs main pages setup to support multiple languages.
  4. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    It's a pity there aren't more people to give there opinion on this. Especially I had hoped to get some statements from the webmasters. Maybe this thread isn't in the right section here neither?! There is a section called "Site News, Announcements, and Discussion" where it might fit better... I see a general problem, that there aren't lot of anons that are up to translation, this is wha I think. Although I announced it in several postings, I could not make any anon to help with the translation of the Road to February 10 video to Spanish and German... I can understand it a bit, as translation is quite time-consuming and not so easy sometimes... on the other hand translating good material that we already have is a lot easier than create new material in another language, thus it's a very efficient way to get more people interested the dark side of Scientology... What do you think, shall we move the thread again?
  5. anon_david Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    I love the idea. We should definitely try to reach wider audiences with the language resources we have at our disposition.
  6. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    me thinks its a good idea.

    how it could be done? well, we translate the contents, there can be a symbol for other languages (eg. flags) at the main page and then a copy of the structure with the new content. i guess the main problem in this is the translation, when we have got that, the technical part shouldnt be difficult.

    maybe they didnt have time or opportunity to recognize this proposition is there?

    i dont know if its easier to translate than to create new texts. but indeed, there is a lot that could be translated- the "cover pages", the latimes article, also exscientologykids stories or some affidavits.

    in principle im open in helping with the german translation, but im not sure concerning time and ability.

    concerning the german translation of february 10th and the not-so-fabulous response to your quests for help- maybe ppl saw that something was already being done? i made my draft because i didnt see any draft so far, i dont know what i would have done had there already been one. dont be disappointed, maybe there'll be more responses later or people will change their mind. maybe some think they dont know the languages good enough to translate. to those i say: just try it, and make suggestions! you wont be fair-gamed for mistakes and we make mistakes as well. just read my badly put together english ;) if i can do it, so can you! theres also the possibility of proofreading as a start if you dont want to translate from scratch. translating is part of understanding, if you like thinking, language and general mental exercise just do it. this is a war of the minds and of ideas, use yours. imagine, you can help create documents that hundreds of people will read or see if its for a video... you can make a real impact!

    i remember when i put out that first draft and the very next day i saw a vid with mark bunker having my subtitles- it was just awesome as hell. if you wont do it, you wont do it, sure. but why not have a try at translating a document you want to see translated? its also important for press distribution- accessability is in general the keyword here.

    i guess sometimes the advise lurk moar can get across in a misunderstood manner- in a way lurk less is as true and necessary as lurk moar... lurk moar does not mean lean back and watch nothing happening when there is something you could do while having fun at it.
  7. thequeue Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Staff here. I like this idea but it should be put off for now -- we're going to start focusing on improving the content on the Front Page which will likely include a lot of new/re-organized content. However, anyone interested in helping with translation can begin working on the "Overview" and "Who we are" sections as they most likely won't change much (if at all).

    I've bookmarked this issue and will bring it to the attention of the rest of the staff. Whatever happens we definitely want translations if we have people willing to do the grunt work.
  8. tamphex Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Seeing as we've put WP in place theres also an outside chance that there may be a language plugin available to do said grunt work. Don't quote me 100% on the reliability of a perfect translation if indeed a plugin exists however. Will have to look into it.
  9. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    It's nice that people support the idea of translating the "cover pages". Also, I had to agree totally with you, indeedindeed. I understand that it's a problem, translating text that is going to change soon. On the other hand, if a more or less permanent version has been written minor changes can be translated fast as well. I hope the new version of those cover pages won't come too late, because I think that after 3/15 a big wave of people will come to this forum... In part the the percentage of people staying here is influenced by the quality and accessability (that is also language support) of the cover pages. Of course, I understand that there's a lot to do and always too little time... :-(

    So, as thequeue suggested I'm going to try to start with a translation of the two mentioned pages before 3/15 into German. If we get enough people to proofread it, maybe it can be linked then...

    What I didn't understand was the language plugin thing that tamphex talked about. Are talking about an automatic translation a la google translate?? :? I don't think this would work very well... But maybe I got it wrong.

    An important issue that I like to suggest to the webmasters/staffers: The translations could be done a lot better if there were a section in this forum just for translating things. Threads concerning this disappear too quickly among the activism threads I think. You can't get an overview neither of what's being done. Although there is the wiki translation place, I think it cannot replace what can be accomplished in the forum concerning the matter. I'm not sure, but I think there are a lot of people that aren't so familiar with wiki and would prefer translating here or at least discussing translation issues here (this is really not so nice in wiki). Again, for sure, this also depends on the capacity here in the forum... I just wanted to suggest that, because translating good documents is such an important driving force of Anonymous...

    anonimo
  10. anon_david Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    I have no idea what this plugin actually is but automatic translations are a bad idea. They reek of laziness, cheapness and are, excuse my french, fucking annoying to read. I support anonimo on this one; human translations are definitely better.

    THIS.

    I don't think people are checking the Call to Arms: Translators thread and I've had trouble getting people to review the French translations of the vids on the wiki because of this. Some place where languagefags can't miss the new developments would be awesome with sparkles on top.
  11. thequeue Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    If it'll be used we can make a sub-forum. Suggestions on where it should be located (keeping in mind visibility and such)?

    That's wonderful. Even if we only have the top page for each section, it's better than nothing. We can always truncate the translations and point to other sites (if they exist) or resources for more detailed information. The main job of Enturbulation, especially as the big day approaches, is as a portal and launching point to other sources of Anonymous.
  12. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Motion to create a Translation Forum

    Well, I think regarding the big sections information, activism and discussion, it fits best into activism. When I read your advice to keep visibility in mind I thought maybe because of the strategic importance of translation it should be one more of the activism forums:

    - Current Activism Projects and Discussion
    - MARCH 15th PROTESTS
    - FEBRUARY 10th POST-GAME REPORTS
    - Local and Miscellaneous Protests
    - Fliers, Pamphlets, and Other Protest Media
    - Translation Projects


    Reason in favor: will be seen by everyone and will get a lot more attention, a lot more anons might realize its importance and engage in translation. Reason against: possibly smaller number of posts that might not seem to justify its position as a main section. On the other hand pragmatic reasoning should be done here. Does it do more good than harm if it is in this highly visible position? After all, if people still won't share in translation it can still be removed.

    The postings in translation threads are highly result oriented and so working highly productive. Translation is a major multiplicator for all sorts of activism. The translation wikis serve as a vital tool but discussion about translation much easier in forums, and discussion is very much needed for good translations as we are not professional translators. I suggest also that there should be subforums for "key languages" (that should include both languages of countries where CoS is most active and such languages in which proper information is very rare still in spite of its speakers being a target of CoS). For example there's little information in Spanish and Italian on the youtube (and on the web in General I guess) and countries of Eastern Europe are also mostly uninformed but targeted heavily.

    So, thequeue, I hope you get the new section initiated soon, it would be fine to have it ready before the second big wave of international influx that we sure will see from 3/15 on.

    anonimo
  13. gregg Member

  14. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    We are well aware of the translation wiki.
    We have engaged in translation and we saw that the wiki site alone isn't effective enough to do extensive translations. It sure is a great tool. Discussion about the translation of lines in question is vital and cannot be done in such a good way in the wiki as it can be done here in the forum, trust me.

    It's by far not enough to have only one thread for all the translations. There must be one thread per translation project (just for one language) if you want to get a real good translation that is worked on by several people.

    Thats why there are all of these threads just for one video:
    Translating the fabulous Road to February 10 video /DE,FR,ES: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5210
    (French) translation project: The Road to February 10 video: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5686
    (SPANISH) translation project: The Road to February 10 video: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5355
    (GERMAN) translation project: The Road to February 10 video: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5358

    The problem is: these pages disappear fast from the top page and don't get any more attention by German, French and Spanish anons, if no updates appear for a day or two.

    If there were a translation forum, people would find the easily the translation projects in progress on enturbulation. A lot of anons prefer to discuss translations in the forum and still aren't used to wikis. Translation is too important to keep it in the dark, it needs attention so that people will work on spreading the message all over the globe.

    anonimo
  15. Consensus Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    I'm going to bring this to the attention of the administrators.
    Also, there is a call out for people to translate http://wiki.costruth.com/index.php/New_Content_Sandbox
    I'll be pushing that more in the next couple days.

    edit: oops, I'm not a thorough reader. The Queue already replied, and he's the one that would be making such a subforum.

    Well, what do you guys say? He says he's willing to make a subforum if it'll get used!
  16. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Thanks for reading the thread thoroughly now :)

    I hope to see the new forum soon. Here's another suggestion: the new forum could target two issues at the same time.
    1) translation projects
    2) text composition projects (for different languages)

    This idea came to my mind when I read the thread OPERATION: GLOBAL SPEECH[/url:3kclqck8] where lots of people are working together on one text. The interaction in this and similar threads is very similar to the interaction we see in translation threads. Texts that are composed in groups reflect Anonymous better, sound better, cover all the important issues and have lesser mistakes. Text composition should be encouraged for every language by offering the necessary infrastructure. Often one Anonymous feels unsecure and overwhelmed by composing a larger text, seeing that others are already engaged in the creative process will motivate others to share in.

    The structure doesn't change because of the inclusion of text composition. The threads should only be given names that indicate if it's about a translation (e.g. [TRANSL]...), a text composition in progress (e.g. [COMP]...) or just discussion/suggestion of possible projects.

    So here is a proposal of a possible structure (PLEASE CLICK ON THUMBNAIL):

    forumextxs5.png
    (sorry about the colors)

    I hope I could make my point clear. Please let me know if I haven't been clear enough.

    anonimo
  17. anon_david Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I second this idea. A forum for all writefag projects is an excellent idea, imho.
  18. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    I'm not sure if this was a rhetoric question or if you expect some more positive comments in order to get things started. The topic title is a little different from what is being discussed/proposed in this thread right now, so I guess people won't come here to give their opinion about this.

    The global speech needs to get translated! This might be a good first project to get threads into the different translations subforums. So, please open up the new sections asap!

    anonimo
  19. thequeue Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    Sounds like there's some positive momentum for translation projects. Wonderful! The initial forum and sub-forums have been set up under Activism: viewforum.php?f=56

    For now the sub-forum languages are limited to English, German, Spanish, French, Italian and "Other languages" in an attempt to keep things organized and simple. If other languages gain in popularity we can break them out into sub-forums as necessary. The same reasoning applies to "Translator's Help," which is a good suggestion in the long-term, but for now such topics can go in the general Translation forum.

    The next step is to start identifying threads to be moved. Those linked above in this thread will get moved shortly, but any others can either be reported individually or sent as bulk list as a PM to a mod/admin.

    Also moving this thread to the new forum (logically).
  20. anonimo Member

    Re: Shall we translate the "cover pages" of enturbulation?

    I'm bringing this thread back to top in order to get to know if the front pages have been reached some kind of final state (that's not going to be changed coompletely soon).

    Although translators may be quite busy on the many texts that are worth translating, there might be people willing and available to translate it to have it ready around April 12. If some changes are planned for the next weeks, please point out (again) which pages are not to be changed soon.

    anonimo

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