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Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by AnotherSP, Jun 5, 2008.

  1. Daywatch Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    !
  2. anonyHAL Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    IANAL, however, seems to me that there's NO reasonable expectation of Privacy in the street. Film away, IMO.
  3. Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    This may be a good idea if possible.
  4. Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    A friend recently post a blog about photographer's rights. Here is a link to a handy lil' pamphlet you can carry with you when filming/taking photos. It gives an overview of your rights etc...

    Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page

    These kinds of scilon tactics really piss me off. Yet here in Austin we have had no major problems...yet. Good luck with whatever you decide!
  5. MarcabEmpress Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    If the law is that you cant do sound and image, FOLLOW THE LAW.

    Know the law.

    The law is your friend if you obey it. That being said, that you were assaulted sucks, that the cop didnt back you up sucks.

    However, kNOW your local laws.
  6. Top Grunge Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    so the biggest assault on an anonymous was missed by the camera person.

    Getting punched heals fast, footbullets on video stay forever.

    The "we have it on tape, except for what happened" makes missed opp to end cult abuses.
  7. eksef Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    WTF. What does it take to have someone filming whenever the's a scilon around????????
  8. jane Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Sign up for very cheap legal advice..Pre-paid is one example, $25 a month, cancel anytime. They will assign you lawyers in your area who know the laws in your area. Caveat, they will not understand cult bullshit, just basic cheap legal advice.

    If you are willing to file complaints and expose yourself to legal bullshit, get advice, then collect all witness statements, evidence and send copies by registered return receipt mail to local DA. This goes around hostile police department, if that is the case. Also, file criminal charges even if they don't prosecute you can pursue a civil matter if you wish to.

    Consult OG who have had court dealings with cult. They will have good insights and give you an idea of what to expect from cult.

    Good Luck, Be safe!

    J.
  9. AnonConqy Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Not a legal eagle, so I asked someone who is. The answer?
    Cops cannot arrest someone for assault unless they themselves witness the assault. SO FILM EVERYTHING! Has anyone else noticed a trend with the the recent upsurge of "omg a scilon assaulted me" threads? The theme is that NONE of them were caught on film. Scilons will not act aggressivly when they know they're being watched with a camera. So keep the camera out, LOOK like you're recording! Even if you have no film left, keep it out and pointed at them, and be ready to push the red button whenever it looks like they might start something.
    Also you only need to get someone's permission to film them when you're indoors. When you're outside, your face is public domain.
  10. Anon214365 Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    First of all, always call the ambulance before you call the cops if someone get hurt. ALWAYS film everything.
  11. Anon214365 Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    ALso, if you have injuries do to the Emergency Room and get yourself examined and get it all written down in a police report there.
  12. anonseatac Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    All I could find while diving into the laws is telephone audio recordings. Nothing about recording video or audio in a public setting.

    Any time that I will be with our group of Seattle anons, I will turn my video camera on and it will not go off until after we are finished. It will not happen again while I'm there.
  13. Killawog Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Two things, one of which has been repeated ad infinitum; tape this sort of thing. I know it's hard when someone is being assaulted, but I'm sure the scienos are being told not to do this sort of thing if there's video running.

    Also, did you get the cop's badge number? I had a situation where there had been a fight at a protest (I didn't know about it because it happened after I left). The cops were in my grill giving me a ration of crap (I love cops, but that's what they do). I was texting on my phone and the cop said, "put down your phone right now." I said, "sure, as soon as I'm done taking down your badge number." After that, 180 degrees!! They were nice, they thanked me for my time. Anytime you have a cop being antaganistic, ask for their badge number. Worst case scenario, you can report 'em. Cops have bosses just like everyone else!

    It's a bad year to be a Scientologist and it's getting worse. I can even understand them being pissed at us. Their stats are down and then we show up scaring people off and shutting down thier orgs. I think we need to prepare for more stuff like this happening. Every protest should have one assigned videographer at all times!!
  14. Ghost Bear Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    It's the police officer's job to stay neutral in situations like these. When they make statements like this, they show their bias. When police officers are biased, they cannot correctly apply the law to the sitaution.

    I would say you have a very strong complaint against the officer. I'd even say you probably had a civil case against the police officer, as they did not do what was required to ensure that you were able to enforce your rights. You can either take this to small claims court (you'd be suing the officer) or you can take it to a civil rights attorney (big cash).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Suggestions for Situations Like this in the Future!

    A)

    One of the most important things you can do as a protester is to have a police officer's card on you. From the city is best, but pretty much anywhere will work as all.

    The purpose of the card? Simple. It states the following:

    "You had better do your fucking job otherwise I'll be talking to this person who will know you fucked up or acted improperly. You can then bet I will be reporting this and making an issue of it."

    The officer has no idea what relation you are to the cop on the card. Family friend, uncle, aunt, whatever. So, they'll more then likely assume that it's a close friend / family.

    You'd be surprised the tone change that occurs when they start laying into you and then you whip out the card. Plus, if some fucknut is causing problems, the card acts sorta like a "get out of jail free" card. Co-operate with the cops and you'll usually walk.

    B)

    You have to understand that when you are dealing with a prick cop, the majority of the time they are being a prick because they are lazy and don't want to fill out paperwork. That seems to be the case in this event. Comply with the police officer's orders at the time.

    When the officer leaves, immediately contact the police department and their immediate supervisor. Tell him/her about the situation and that you complied with the officers orders as instructed to diffuse the situation (this scores big points in their book, trust me). Tell the supervisor that you believe the situation was handled improperly and list your reasons why.

    It's important to stress the fact that all you want is to be treated fairly and your rights respected. You do not want to make trouble, but you will report any unfair treatment to department / media if it continues. IN this specific case, I would tell the supervisor what the officer said and comment that it didn't seem proper for a police officer to take sides. Say something like "The law shouldn't take sides, only apply itself where valid" You get the jist.

    C)

    After the event, WRITE IT DOWN. Have a little notepad. What the officer said, how she said it, etc. Exact quotations are best. Have witnesses sign stating that they were present when you jotted these notes down and that they are accurate.
  15. MarcabSoldier Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Wow. I think I've fallen into the Internet Fail Machine.

    Does Alvin have footage of the attack? If anything his video should involve the Sci getting way too close and then Alvin getting jostled. That's probably more then sufficient.

    As fun as internet detectives and the Honorable Ed Lolington all is, you need to do real things. You're in Seattle, it's a major city. Go to your local precinct, and ask to talk to IAD - the Internal Affairs Division. Bring all the film on a DVD. Not the originals - but copies.

    If you can swing it, find a Legal Aid Society. They have free lawyers. Seattle Area ACLU can help you as well. While you talking to Internal Affairs is smart, having a lawyer do it is all that more effective.

    Don't go to the media, yet. Don't go to that cop's supervisor. Don't go to the precinct captain. These people have incentives to NOT listen to you. More importantly, gather as much information as you can before you act. Do any the buildings around where you were have security cameras? Did anyone who worked in the area see the assault?

    Use your head. More importantly, expect more of this to happen. Use digital cameras and if you can, use camcorders that write to a minidv cassette or minidvd disc. You want to be to extract footage if your camera takes a beating. Two cameras is better then one. Don't rely on cell phone footage or camera, even if you have a three MP camera phone. Whenever a member of the church of Scientology is involved, always film. Reduce the quality if you need duration. Keep a camera always on the scientologist. They film us when we go into an Org - so we film them when they infiltrate a raid.

    -Anonymouse
  16. Ghost Bear Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    You go to the cop's supervisor to actually record your version of the events. If you leave it for too long, they will more then likely take the cop's version of events as the truth. Then you're screwed.

    Strike while the iron is hot. Waiting around in any legal situation is severely limiting your options.
  17. deepthot42 Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Cops? Beings dicks?

    It's more likely than you think...
  18. Hoo Phar Ted Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    This is a good link and the information in it also applies to Canada. Here's the basics from my experience (from the law enforcement POV) if it is in public, it is allowed to be filmed, photographed, recorded, etc. for non-commercial use (i.e. private and not making any money from it) as there is no expectation of privacy, this includes the exterior of buildings. Now if you are on someones private property, filming for commercial use (like movies or commercial ads) or attempting to film, photograph, or record inside the private property from a distance, i.e. long distance lenses, or long range listening devices, this would constitute an invasion of privacy, unless you have express permission from the owner to film, photograph, or record on their property. Also anything filmed, photographed, recorded in public is the personal property of the person taking said media and can do with it what they want, short of using it for libel/slander. However, anything taken on private property, even with permission to shoot said media, still has to get permission of the owner of the property or subject matter if they wish to re-broadcast that media, otherwise it is deemed for private use only.

    There are slight differences if you are a PI though in most areas. They typically can film private property or persons in private settings, without their knowledge IF it has bearing on a current case, or, in cases of domestic/spousal investigations, they have permission from at least one of the domestic parties involved. I.E. a PI can have a wife's permissions to film into/inside a house, business, or property which she co-owns if she suspects a husband cheating, but not into the house of the girl which the husband is cheating with.

    For the U.S. it is in the Fourth Amendment rights of the constitution, the Reasonable Expectation of Privacy It could also meets Freedom of the Press issues.
  19. AnonyMAX Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    First off, I'm happy that no one was seriously injured. Secondly, I suggest you contact a lawyer about your situation. Many lawyers offer a free consultation and they will let you know if you have a case, which you most certainly do.

    Now a few [Foot]bullet points.

    1. Anytime you are speaking with the authoirities, make sure to note their name and badge number. If you cant see it, ask them for it. They are required by law to provide it.
    2. All Anons should be armed with a video camera so there is no way anything is missed. Even if it's not the most professional equipment, you should have something. You can pick up a cheap camcorder that uses SD cards for under $50. Just check ebay.
    3. Carry a copy of all laws pertaining to the protest, as well as those regarding filming in public areas.
    4. Many cell phones now have the option to record calls. If your phone has this option, utilize it. This will go along way toward proving who called the police.

    Please stay safe everyone. CO$ is really on edge right now. At any point their frustration can get the best of them and they could snap. Be extremely vigilant.
  20. anonymal Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Washington
    I doubt that the scilon had a legitimate expectation of privacy (public street, already knew you were recording from the interview). But, Co$ pursues matters legally to harass not to win. But2, why haven't they pressed charges for previous recordings when they haven't assaulted anyone?

    I'd talk to a lawyer first, but my gut says press charges (not just assault, but battery and property damage too).
  21. Shellback Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member


    Um, it is certainly legal to film people in a public place- W-O permission. You established that they have cameras on the street and you MUST assume that they have video and sound capability. There can be no assumption of privacy in a public place from here on out, hallelujah amen!

    But check you local laws and if you folks have such rules, for pete's sake start complaining about their cameras!
  22. Anon Char Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    I think we need to have a sign.

    "SMILE WE ARE FILMING FOR POSTERITY!!!"

    It either obvious or that they are using their OT powers, but Scylons are catching everyone with their cameras off and making targets of opportunity.
  23. Robert S Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    I am glad everyone is OK.

    But Jesus Christ already, yeah?

    Female cop is obviously a stupid cunt fuckhead moron dipshit who has no business being in a position of authority. This is ridiculous. We've already talked about what's legal and not legal with taking pictures because everybody asked at the start of all this if it was legal for their operatives to snap photos of anons and the answer was it's legal so what the fuck? This cop needs to crawl back to the lowlife fucking trailer park she spawned from, and if the anons involved don't do SOMETHING about this then they're fuckheads as well.

    Stop being nice to these motherfuckers. How many times am I supposed to say it? I'm not saying hit back- I'm saying file charges, ffs. This is going to be standard operating procedure until we get a few of their skinny weakling asses in stir, then they'll coward off like the yellow scum they are.

    Fuck them and fuck their "religious beliefs." Scientologists are assholes. Period.
  24. seattleanon Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    This is really troubling me. I haven't actually attended a Seattle raid yet, but I am thinking of attending the one on the 14th of June. If personal obligations permit, I will be there and meet up with the anons and will find a discrete place to monitor the entire time protesting. You guys need to know better than to let a lapse in time go by in filming. These scilons are dangerous to be around and you need to take the proper precautions just like you would around an angry hornet's nest. I feel you got lucky this time because nobody got hurt badly. Also, never lose your cool or get angry. Know what to expect and deal with it calmly and tactfully. Maybe even rehearse a bit so it isn't as much of a shock. Sometimes what I use when dealing with unpleasant people when things get nasty is pretending to be a bit angry and agressive while secretly inside I know that I am cool. What is to be expected is scilons bullbaiting, intimidating, stalking, threatening and even assulting one of us. I know the laws differ from state to state, but this is similar to the instance that happened to Mark Bunker in Clearwater, FL. If your personal time permits, I would do a bit of research on the laws and if things are favorable then go ahead and press charges. Suggestion to the witness(es): I would speak to a higher ranking member of the police and make sure they are informed of the dangers we are up against when speaking out against these guys. I'm not sure how the witness end of things will work out because it may not be worth 'namefagging' all of yourselves for. I know I wouldn't be inclined to do that.

    tl;dr Be more careful, film 100% of the time, never let your guard down and watch each other's backs. Your safety depends on that.
  25. Anon1720 Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    This is scary shit! I'm glad you are all ok but sorry this happened. Yet another scientologist showing his true colours. I hope you can get a meeting with the police about this. Time to talk to this cops supervisor perhaps.
  26. Puddlewhite Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Ignorant cop is ignorant. Its long due we do something about it BUT i know i have a hugely unpopular opinion about this so ill shut up.
    As for the assaults themsleves- EVERY such an opotunity we miss is a footbullet FOR US! I know your isntincts say you shoud help the guy, but hey, i for one woud be glad to take a few broken ribs for the cause, if it woud mean we get them punching a peacefull protester on camera. If anything (here come the flames) i woud say we provoke them into doing it.
    And, something more- we need to start geting these things on paper (yet more flames)- either we all give names to the police, and file a official report whenever shit like this happens, or have a designated sucider do the namefaging (again, i aint advocating thing im not willing to do).

    Let the flaming begin...

    EDIT- What Rober S said, as well.
  27. SLOJOE Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Please Stay safe...
    Always have someone in charge of the filming. If they call you over never go alone or at all.
    One thing is that it looks from the first video that he was parked in the driveway to the street. If that is the case and you were walking in back and forth in front of his truck (which could have been very dangerous in itself) he could say that he was in fear and you were blocking his escape(total bullshit..but he could). Please be safe and stay together and record ANY interaction with the scions
  28. Anonereign Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    That's what happens when you don't film shit.
  29. IsThisOn? Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    As a former POLICE OFFICER, I will say this only one more time. No state law supersedes the SCOTUS ruling that NO ONE HAS AN EXPECTATION TO PRIVACY IN A PUBLIC SETTING! Second, police cannot ask you to turn off your cameras.

    Those statutes cited in Washington only apply to audio recordings in a private setting, or telephone communications.

    Third, this officer was lazy, and felt it was easier to get you to back off your complaint rather than fill out the required paperwork so the victim could press charges.

    In most states,If, there is any sign of injury or complaint of pain, a officer can make an arrest on scene without witnessing the event. Misdemeanor exception rule. Check with a lawyer, there are many free legal services.

    Here is the Seattle Police Department Manual. She violated quite a few policies.

    http://cityofseattle.net/police/publications/Policy/SPD_Manual.pdf

    This officer lacked neutrality, if you didn't get her name, you can still. It will be logged in their computer dispatch system.

    Never turn off your cameras even with police. You are the victim, not the suspect. Right now I can't even begin to name all the ways she was unprofessional and incompetent. But PM me when I've cooled down and I will discuss it with you and how to handle your complaint...which I know you are filing along with a battery report. Talk to an attorney.

    You cannot let these things go, do not be intimidated by lazy cops or abusive ones. The truth always comes out.
  30. admiral_caek Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    remember: Cops do not always know what the law says. Some cops do what they want and hope the DA will make up an excuse for it. Never take legal advice from a cop on the street and never believe a cop's interpretation of the law on face value.

    There can be a big difference between acting legally and doing what a cop says to do.

    Organize your thoughts into a clear narrative of events. Consult an attorney or file a complaint with the city, but don't let them get away with this!
  31. Robert S Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    THIS THIS THIS FFS.
    And my post above related the opinion of my son in law, who is currently a police officer, when I showed him this.
  32. highoverlord Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    please stop saying his name.....
  33. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    If they are stepping up the aggression, it is only a matter of time before some of our video will hit national TV.

    As for the pig - yes, I said it with regards to thios particular officer - their priority was COERCIVING everyone involved to back down so she didn't have to put down the donut long enough to do the paperwork end of her job.
  34. Hoo Phar Ted Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    I Agree with this 100%
  35. felinonymous Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    WA State Pro Tip- (Got this on the quick from a buddy in WA with the State Patrol)

    The cop that responded did not apply the State's law properly. Problematic but it happens. A follow-up with the Community Affairs officer is a good plan.

    Find the Liaison officer and explain what you are doing. Explain also that you have recently had a Seattle officer basically tell you that if she gets called out by the Sci again, she will arrest you. Respectfully submit that you are engaging in peaceful protest and that the other side is being the aggressor- because of the officer's prejudgement of you, you no longer have an expectation of safety in public. You have already been told that she will arrest first, investigate later. Equally respectfully submit that the reason you are there talking to the Liaison officer is to find the middle ground on the issue and hopefully keep any additional problems from happening.

    Now that I have said all that- STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM THE SCILONS!!!!! You are there to protest, not chat. We have had some good conversation with our local but the circumstances were pretty different. And unless those circumstances were to be replicated, we would not have any further conversation. Our Anons don't even go to their side of the street.

    It is not inconceivable that they are doing something new and different- sort of. They are trying to figure out how to "handle" the monthly PTS and they aren't doing real good with it. There is no doubt in my mind that when our local guy figures out that his "Tone 40" TR0 isn't keeping us in check, they will try something new. The best way to deal with that is to stay the heck away from them.

    Good luck Seattle Anons. And STAY SAFE!
  36. Hoo Phar Ted Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    I laughed a little bit when I read this. Although a serious discussion it reminded me of these.
  37. Major Boyle Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    ^^THIS
  38. Lorelei Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    Samuel Hughes said: "If they are stepping up the aggression, it is only a matter of time before some of our video will hit national TV."

    Well, not if NO ONE IS FILMING ANYTHING.

    I'm sorry an Anon got thrashed and a cop didn't do the right thing. Let it be a lesson in what to expect and ALWAYS have someone assigned to record for posterity and remain neutral and off to the side, as hard as it will be to do should bad stuff go down.
  39. SLOJOE Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    GREAT ADVICE!!
    As much fun as this can be ..Remember that this is NOT fun to them.
    Some citys are really downstat already. (BTW... Happy DOWNSTAT Thursday to Ya, whoever You are!)....and you dont want to corner a mad animal that is capable of anything ..Do Ya. At this point Its probably not a good idea to do small raids on the ORGS and missions without plenty of CAMS. IMHO
  40. anoncommie Member

    Re: Scilon assaults Seattle Anonymous Member

    I'm going to make a non-legal suggestion;

    we've seen a few escalated incidents now where the camera has been off during an incident. The obvious suggestion here is to turn it on every time a Scilon approached, but also, the advent of camera phones should be an excellent /b/lackup for capturing evidence of potential assaults or failgaming.

    I suggest that, when protesting in such small numbers, people with camera phones have it close on hand and pull it out and turn the camera portion on whenever a Scilon appears to be making any sort of move (i.e. approaching or you approaching them) so that you can quickly capture images if the other camera(s) are unable.

    Keep safe out there anons!

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