Scientology sued for Fraud! It's going DOWN like bird sh**! (The Garcia Suit)

Discussion in 'Media' started by BlackRob, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Sekee Member

    If only the case was about “who ate all the pies” We’d have him banged to rights.
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  2. DeathHamster Member

    I don't think his weight gain was very sudden.

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  3. TorontosRoot Member

    Over a long period of time, and the excuses (ANY excuses) to delay the court case as usual. The judge should demand him be there regardless, and the courts provide transportation, ensuring he doesn't evade them any longer.
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  4. DeathHamster Member

    When the Garcias' lawyer did a spit-take on the note from Megan Shields, Scientology doctor and shill, CoS went to another doctor to get a second opinion.

    For a guy with ear-problems who can't fly, they drove went quite a distance to get that opinion:

    Mike Ellis is Sea Org, so he's not going to have a nice place out in the suburbs, but somewhere cheap and close to PAC Base.
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  5. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Oh my goodness!

    'Too fat to fly.' LMFAO! Planes, trains, and automobiles, word-clear that mofos!

    Cult of stupid twisting in the wind, spending un-told millions of 'donated, tax-free money' to waste the courts time and wear the plaintiffs down etc., can it get any more convoluted and derpy? Why yes, yes it can, it's scientology!

    To the lutz-mobile Batty-boy!
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  6. Incredulicide Member

    What's the bet they had to cross-reference all the doctors in their membership list with the online completions database until they found one that isn't on Kristi's list?

    I foresee a picket sign in future informing the everyday Scientologist that:
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  7. RightOn Member

    He's PTS!
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  8. Can we Irritate things ?
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  9. TorontosRoot Member

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  10. HOW ?
  11. TorontosRoot Member

    using acid on the bloat?
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  12. The Wrong Guy Member

    Days before crucial hearing, Scientology pulls out a ghost to sway a federal judge | The Underground Bunker

    Federal Tampa district Judge James D. Whittemore has been preparing in a very methodical way ahead of a February 18 evidentiary hearing that could have a huge impact on the Church of Scientology.

    He’s already held one live hearing on this important preliminary matter, and in anticipation of next week’s event, he ordered both sides in the Luis and Rocio Garcia fraud lawsuit against the church to conduct numerous depositions.

    We published one deposition transcript, two video segments from another (one, two), and detailed some of the complications about scheduling a third. But there were several others which were scheduled that we haven’t had a chance to discuss.

    All of the depositions have been completed now, and there was a status hearing held the other day to clear up some matters before next week’s big showdown. And then, naturally, Scientology decided to throw a wrench into the works.

    At the status hearing, its attorneys asked to file a “short” pleading summing up its position on the motion that will be heard in next week’s mini-trial. With all of the evidence gathered and the hearing itself just days away, the church’s request seemed a little presumptuous, but Whittemore relented and gave the attorneys leave to file a short statement.

    Yesterday, Scientology filed its 25-page “bench memorandum” with 50 pages of exhibits. The Garcia side, we’re told, will now file a response, but for today, we have for you a copy of what the church filed.

    We think there are a number of things going on in this memo, some rather obvious, others more subtle. But it also reveals that for this hearing the church has brought back a ghost whose name is really going to startle some longtime Scientology watchers.

    Are you ready? Can you say, Sherman Lenske? (Did you just see Jeffrey Augustine jump out of his seat? Anyone have some smelling salts?)

    We kid, but believe us when we say there are some longtime, old style Scientology researchers who are going to be salivating, or palpitating, or just plain dropping their jaws to hear that Scientology has pulled Sherman Lenske off the shelf for a deposition in the Garcia lawsuit.

    Hey, we’ve been trying to tell you that this is a big hearing that scares the crap out off Scientology leader David Miscavige. We think this new development should put any question of that to rest.

    So the new folks are wondering, who’s Sherman Lenske, and why are the oldtimers so worked up about him showing up for a deposition?

    The simple answer is that he’s an attorney who helped Scientology complete its complex corporate restructuring in the early 1980s while L. Ron Hubbard was in seclusion.

    He was one of the creators of the Church of Spiritual Technology, for example, the most secretive of Scientology entities, which digs vaults around the country for keeping the words of Hubbard safe from nuclear annihilation. If that weren’t weird enough, CST can, for a nominal fee, buy back the church’s trademarks and copyrights administered by the Religious Technology Center — the entity that David Miscavige nominally runs Scientology from — and take over control of the movement itself.

    Because of that, and because Lenske not only founded CST but was named one of its “special directors,” a certain contingent of disaffected church members, unhappy former members, old time critics, and other folks obsessed with the most arcane of Scientology’s secrets, have imbued the name Sherman Lenske with legendary status.

    Who was he, really, and as a special director of CST, could he and the other directors be persuaded to remove Miscavige from power by voting him out or by pulling the trademarks from RTC?

    Continued here:
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  13. RightOn Member

    Wow, Sad That Denise is not here to witness this.
    But I bet she is chuckling wherever she is.

    There is no such thing as an impartial Scientology ANYTHING.

    Dear Judge Whittmore,
    please see through their bullshit.
    thank you
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  14. TorontosRoot Member

    Imperial what? Fraud? Come on judge...
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  15. Doesn't seem like the Scientology IRS conspiracy brigade have latched onto this yet.
  16. wolfbane Member

    From page 23 of the cult's bench memo document:

    Gee, imagine that. Scientology readily admits that SP declares often deemed to be just arbitrary bullshit and don't mean jack shit 40% of the time.
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  17. RightOn Member

    Cue in vid of Tory trying to talk to her Internal Justice person. I am surprised they haven't called on her.
    She has tried and failed.
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  18. BigBeard Member

    Actually, the section highlighted in red is exactly the opposite of what Ellis said. Which is the "arbitration provision" is handled under the rules of a "Committe of Evidence".

    And a bit of math on the numbers. Supposedly 100 "SP's" challenged their SP designation and won. Also, 40 percent of all "SP's" who challanged their declaration won. Let's see, 100/0.4 = 250, so 250 people challanged their "SP" status, 100 supposedly won, and 150 lost. What's missing from the equation is the total number of "SP's" to get an idea how many felt it wasn't worth the effort to buck a stacked deck.

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  19. GibbousWaxing Member

    The court doesn't care how many SP's were allowed to come back and resume giving money to the conglomerate. The court wants to know how many who petitioned for refunds were granted refunds.

    Where's that number, eh?
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  20. The Wrong Guy Member

    On the eve of the big Tampa hearing, the Garcias fire back at Scientology’s ‘bench memo’

    We told you last week that Scientology pulled a bit of a fast one in the Garcia federal fraud lawsuit, submitting a substantial “bench memorandum” with just days to go before tomorrow’s big evidentiary hearing.

    There’s so much at stake in this hearing, which will decide if Scientology can force the Garcias into its internal arbitration scheme, we pointed out that Scientology was willing to pull out attorney Sherman Lenske from the shadows to sit for a deposition.

    Yesterday, the Garcia team responded with its own bench memo, which we think makes the issues in this case pretty clear. Written by attorney Amanda McGovern, it argues that Scientology’s problem is still that it doesn’t really have proper arbitration rules, even as it wants the Garcias to be forced into them.

    The memo also takes issue with the testimony of Mike Ellis, the reclusive “International Justice Chief” of the Church of Scientology (see photo), who asserted that arbitration had occurred under his watch, but then had to retract that statement “to avoid prosecution for perjury.”

    Give this document a read, and it will prepare you well for what’s likely to happen tomorrow in Tampa.
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  21. The Wrong Guy Member

    TAMPA SHOWDOWN: Scientology’s religious exception faces mini-trial today

    This is certainly a day we’ve been waiting for here at the Underground Bunker. Luis and Rocio Garcia filed their federal fraud lawsuit against the Church of Scientology back in January 2013, alleging that they had been lied to in order to get them to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to Scientology’s building projects and other campaigns.

    The lawsuit has been delayed and complicated by numerous preliminary matters, but today a major issue in the case will finally get heard and possibly decided: Can the church force the Garcias into Scientology’s internal arbitration scheme?


    Just yesterday — yesterday — Scientology filed yet another last-minute document, this time whining that some of what the Garcia team put in its ‘bench memorandum’ on Monday should be stricken from the record. In other words, with only a day to go before a huge and expensive hearing, the church’s attorneys can’t wait to get their objections heard. It’s a sign that things should be quite contentious today.

    It’s going to be fascinating to see Judge Whittemore negotiate this mess, and the stakes are huge. If he finds for the Garcias and their lawsuit proceeds, he will potentially have taken away one of Scientology’s most effective litigating weapons, and could open the floodgates to other lawsuits demanding refunds.


    As soon as we get some reports from the courtroom, we’ll add them to the post. We’re going to assume that Judge Whittemore will take everything under advisement and will write out a lengthy, thorough decision on the church’s motion in the coming weeks.
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  22. anonamus Member

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  23. The Wrong Guy Member

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  24. RightOn Member

    "He interjected that today he no longer believes that and is not an indie,” he added. "

    YES!! Another one that has woken up more and left the Indies.
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  25. Random guy Member

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  26. Quentinanon Member

    The Comm Ev is very similar to a military tribunal and deals with accusations of "offenses" against the cult. It has nothing to do with arbitration. When I was in the cult, refunds were administratively decided, originally by Hubbard and later by the Deputy Guardian for Finance WW. When someone wanted a refund, they received it if they applied in a timely manner.
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  27. TorontosRoot Member

    Let's see how many feet the cult tries to drag.
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  28. Anonymous Member

    Like a fucking centipede, hundreds and hundreds of fucking feet to drag!
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  29. The Wrong Guy Member

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  30. Jeff Jacobsen Member

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  31. RightOn Member

    Very positive waves being sent to the Garcias this morning and their lawyer
    I only wish I was OT so I can really get it done and postulate this case in their favor.
    Ho hum , I am not a homo novis, so I guess good old fashioned wog best wishes and good vibes will have to do.
    GO GO GO!!! Hope the judge has calmed down and tells the COS to GTFO.

    And thanks to Mark for reporting back to Tony.
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  32. The Wrong Guy Member

    DAY TWO: Crucial hearing in Scientology federal fraud lawsuit wraps up this morning


    Today, the remainder of the Ellis cross-examination will be played in the courtroom, and then Scientology should finish up its case with video testimony from attorney Sherman Lenske, and live testimony from Allan Cartwright.
    Then it will be the Garcias’ turn, and they plan to question former church members Haydn James, Christie Collbran, and Mike Rinder.

    And all of that has to get done by the lunch break.

    Our man Mark Bunker will be in the courtroom again this morning. He did a great job yesterday reporting the action, and we look forward to his dispatch today. As soon as we hear from him, we’ll add to this post.
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  33. RightOn Member

    biting nails
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  34. The Wrong Guy Member

    UPDATE: Mark Bunker tells us it was another day of testimony before an unhappy judge today at the Tampa federal courthouse. Neither side seemed to impress Judge James D. Whittemore, who will now take an indefinite amount of time to produce a decision on Scientology’s motion to compel.


    In his final comments by the judge, he said that the plaintiffs say they can’t get a fair hearing if they are forced into Scientology’s brand of arbitration. It’s a compelling argument, but the court was concerned that looking into that took it into First Amendment waters.

    “He said it was a very difficult decision either way. He said he doesn’t want any more briefs from either side, and he didn’t know how long it would take for him to write his decision.”
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  35. RightOn Member

    it looks like it can go either way. I am leaning towards the Garcias winning
    The COS failed to convince the judge that their arbitration system is the way to. not verbatim of course
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  36. Random guy Member

    I wonder how long the judge is going to take. My impression is he is a very thorough man.
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  37. TorontosRoot Member


    That's my guess.
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  38. Quentinanon Member

    If the judge were to decide against the Garcia's, then anyone who the cult refuses a refund has no legal recourse, which may violate the Equal Protection clause of the U.S. Constitution. The cult could then refuse refunds with impunity. And that would open the door to extralegal retaliation from former dupes. I just don't think refusing a refund is in the long term interest of the cult.
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  39. The Wrong Guy Member

    Federal judge to rule on validity of Scientology's refund process | Tampa Bay Times

    By Caitlin Johnston

    A federal judge on Thursday urged both sides in a lawsuit over the Church of Scientology's fundraising tactics to settle matters on their own before he is forced to make "a difficult decision" after two days of hearings.

    If they don't come to an agreement — and there was no indication they would — U.S. District Judge James D. Whittemore said he will focus on whether the church has a valid procedure in place to arbitrate money disputes with former parishioners.


    Much of Thursday's testimony related to whether someone who leaves or is expelled from the church would be treated fairly by a panel made up of Scientologists in good standing, as required for a Committee of Evidence.

    Former Scientologists Hayden James and Christie Collbran told personal stories about how the church's "disconnection" policies forced family members still in the church to disown relatives who left.

    But Whittemore said the First Amendment prevents him from putting any weight on such testimony, no matter how persuasive it was.

    "I have no authority to delve into the beliefs, doctrines, tenets of this organization that calls itself a church," he said.

    He also expressed frustration with former church members using their time on the witness stand to air grievances instead of focusing on the arbitration issue.

    "This is not a forum to fight with the church," Whittemore said. "I am not going to be dragged into these disputes."

    More here:
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  40. RolandRB Member

    ^^ I am following these developments aghast as a Brit. This judge can not work out what to do? It is not an internal religious dispute about religious tenets or beliefs in which, quitre rightly, the law should refrain from interfering. This is about ex-members being defrauded and wanting their money back. So what is this judge thinking? Is he thinking that it might be part of their standard religious practices to defraud people and if he interferes and allows the Garcias to sue then he would be interfering with their religious practices - to somehow throw them into confusion about the meaning of their faith and thereby confuse and interupt their religious processes and thereby prevent them from practising their religion? What about child ritual abuse and some mother who has left the church claiming it was done to her daughter?

    Briish people do not laugh at the American justice system. They gasp at it. It sucks their breath away.

    Edit: Some people might find this link useful:
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