Scientology sued for Fraud! It's going DOWN like bird sh**! (The Garcia Suit)

Discussion in 'Media' started by BlackRob, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Random guy Member

    Quote Ortega:

    It must suck so much to be a lawyer for Captain Miscavige, and have to put in these these random "facts" and try to make them a part of the defence. I almost (but only almost) feel sorry for Pope having to stand there and say such balderdash. I guess the money must be good.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. RightOn Member

    NO!! NOT EVER!
    Pope knows EXCATLY what he is doing. Just like Moxon. Any lawyer for the cult is a dirty scum bag piece of shit loser with lack of empathy for anyone. IMO
    Sci lawyers take money that was paid for by COS's "donations" from their "parishioners" that were brainwashed and regged to death. Many members have gone into bankruptcy and have lost everything and OR have joined staff to keep paying off their debts.
    So no, fuck no!
    • Like Like x 9
  3. The Wrong Guy Member

    Does a judge’s order in the Garcia fraud lawsuit suggest trouble for Scientology?

    We’re still waiting for a major decision from Federal District Judge James A. Whittemore in Tampa that will determine if Scientology can dodge a fraud lawsuit by insisting its former members have to submit all grievances to its internal arbitration system rather than litigate in a civil court.

    But in the meantime, Scientology asked, and Whittemore granted, a seemingly minor request which we can’t help thinking hints at some trouble for the church’s arbitration gambit.

    Continued here:
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  4. fishypants Moderator

    I don't understand why the court doesn't see Scientology's 'arbitration gambit' as entirely without merit.

    If I sign a contract with A Random Company and the contract says that in the event of a dispute, that dispute will be arbitrated by A Random Company - then to me that looks obviously unenforceable. Because as one of the parties to the contract, the arbitrator would obviously be biased in favour of themselves.

    What gives?

    If their argument has any merit at all, I plan to use it re domestic chores.
    "You're doing the washing-up, and if we disagree then I'll make a binding decision as to which of us is right. "
  5. DeathHamster Member

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  6. RightOn Member

    I like Chuck Beatty's response:
    "And for long gone members who've changed their religion I've always wondered how does Scientology get off enforcing their rules on non members!
    A quitter, who's officially quit, is really NOT subject to Scientology's in house rules and procedures, simple as that!
    So sue away!
    Maybe the big piece of new advice, is to 1) first officially quit the Scientology religion and then 2) request one's refund repayment and/or sue.
    The agreements a person signed, the legal releases people sign in Scientology when they pay/donate for each of the paid/donated services they pay for in Scientology they sign these release docs, I would bet that those docs are no longer valid once one quits Scientology's religion.
    The UN Human Rights Declaration allows one to change one's religion.
    To me, change your religion first, get that officially legally acknowledged, and then sue and request your repayment/refund."

    Dear Scientologists still in and on the fence. Do this!

    and as someone else pointed out on Tony's blog in response...
    isn't Scientology a supporter (just for show of course, not really) of the the UN Human Rights?
    • Like Like x 3
  7. fishypants Moderator

    That news story is re the whole employment-law-doesn't-apply-to-American-religions SNAFU. Because why look to religion for fairness or equal rights?

    But this case is about contract law (the plaintiffs weren't employees, were they?).

    I understand they were 'parishioners' but surely American religions aren't entirely exempt from contract law in dealing with their believers ... are they?

    Even if I'm a believer, if I buy a fried chicken from my church and pay them the money, they can't legally keep the money and refuse to give me my chickenz, can they?

    Well yes.
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  8. jensting Member

    ah, but $cientology is compatible with all religions, so they get to have jurisdiction in any case!
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  9. RolandRB Member

    How can it be a religious dispute if one of the parties is no longer a member of that religion?
    • Like Like x 2
  10. RightOn Member

    how can the Garcias use COS's faux "internal arbitration system" if they are no longer COS members?
    • Like Like x 2
  11. jensting Member

    The dispute is about money, the criminal organisation known as the "church" of $cientology is all about money. QED
    • Like Like x 1
  12. RightOn Member

    I wish more ex members would file in small claims court against the cult. No matter the amount. If a shit load of people do it, the cult is more than likely not to show up.
    This would end up costing them a pretty penny in the long run.
    Well I guess cost their "parishioners".

    So when is the Sea Org going to have their almost non existent salaries cut all together?
    It must be coming down the pike?
    • Like Like x 5
  13. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology’s ‘International Justice Chief’ surfaces for the Garcia lawsuit | The Underground Bunker

    The last time we checked in on the federal fraud lawsuit against the Church of Scientology filed by Luis and Rocio Garcia of Irvine, California, we told you that Judge James A. Whittemore had given Scientology a pretty good challenge.

    Scientology wants Judge Whittemore to dismiss the lawsuit in favor of the Garcias being compelled to take their grievances to the church’s internal system of arbitration. The Garcias object to that notion, and say that not only are their allegations of fraud not an internal matter, but Scientology’s supposed arbitration system is a sham anyway.

    The Garcias have produced declarations by former church officials who say Scientology’s rules of arbitration are illusory. Scientology fired back with a 1963 policy written by L. Ron Hubbard outlining the church’s internal justice system, which is built on hearings known as “committees of evidence” or “comm evs.”

    Ted Babbitt, the attorney for the Garcias, pointed out that comm evs are for handing out punishment, not evaluating financial disputes. And Judge Whittemore seemed to agree, giving Scientology a few days to come up with an explanation of how its comm ev rules relate to arbitration.

    So now, Scientology has submitted an answer to that, and we found it rather interesting. It’s a declaration by Mike Ellis, who is Scientology’s “International Justice Chief.”

    If you talk to former Scientologists for any length of time, you hear about the “IJC” a lot. He’s the person who, if you’ve been “declared” a “suppressive person” — Scientology’s version of excommunication — is the only person in all of Scientology that you can talk to in order to get yourself back into the good graces of the organization. In Scientology lingo, the IJC is your only “terminal” once you’ve been “declared.”

    But the IJC himself is rarely heard from. We were surprised to see a declaration from Ellis, and his statement only brought up more questions for us. First, here’s his sworn declaration.

    Garcia v. Scientology: Ellis Affidavit

    Continued here:
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  14. Sekee Member

    Like all those pre-paid OT9 courses they’ve been taking money for. That con has been running for the last 20+ years yet the course still hasn’t materialised.
    • Like Like x 3
  15. RightOn Member

    There is an older vid or Tory protesting and she specifically asked several times to talk to her her "IJC" (International Justice Chief)
    and said she wasn't going to leave until she spoke to him because she was told that he is the only person she can talk to and she still has money on account. If I recall she sat on a bench and said she wouldn't leave until she had the chance to speak with him and they told her she was trespassing. This would be a great vid to show the judge.

    I know others have mentioned Scientology's inner arbitration before and how what BS it is, but Tory's video shows her actually asking to talk to her IJC and then the guards tell her she is trespassing and to leave or they are calling the police.
    Can someone suggest over at the Bunker, or to the Garcia's lawyers that this video exists and that it should be seen. I looked through some of Tory's vids, but she has a LOT. Maybe she knows which one it is and can direct the lawyers to it.
    I am not sure what the name of Tory's IJC was, but if it is Mike Ellis, it would be super lulzy and the icing on the caek. Someone needs to ask her.
    And I always wondered why Tory has not sued the COS for all the money she still has on account?
    • Like Like x 4
  16. TorontosRoot Member

    She needs to sue the cult. Heck, more are doing it.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Quentinanon Member

    The closest real world equivalent of the "committee of evidence" is a military tribunal. And yes, they are for punishment. No "church" procedures exist for arbitration. That started in the mid-1980's in WISE only.
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  18. RightOn Member

    what is the reason why she hasn't? Has she mentioned before why she won't sue?
  19. The Wrong Guy Member

    The Garcias answer Scientology’s ‘International Justice Chief’ with an affidavit by Mike Rinder

    By Tony Ortega

    Last time we checked in on the federal fraud lawsuit brought by Luis and Rocio Garcia against the Church of Scientology, we told you about a rare appearance by the church’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis.

    We explained that the IJC is something of a notorious figure in Scientology because he’s an excommunicated member’s only “terminal” for communicating with the church. And so he handles the requests of kicked-out members as they complain about getting money back that they left on account.

    Ellis submitted a declaration claiming that Scientology’s internal justice procedures are legitimate, and that the internal arbitration process it wants the Garcias to undergo (in lieu of the lawsuit) are governed by well-defined rules.

    We noted that Ellis’s account seemed weak, and now, a few days later, the Garcias have answered Ellis’s declaration with an affidavit by former church executive Mike Rinder (pictured).

    In the document, Rinder says he knows that the arbitration system mentioned in Scientology’s enrollment contracts was a sham because he wrote the contracts. As a Scientology executive overseeing legal affairs, he would have known if the arbitration rules had ever actually been used. But they weren’t, because they were a fiction.

    “It simply was not the intent of the Church that the ‘arbitration’ process amount to anything beyond a statement on paper,” Rinder writes.

    He goes into more detail, and by the end of it, there’s really nothing left of Ellis’s statements.

    Now, it’s up to Judge James A. Whittemore. He’ll decide on Scientology’s insistence that any grievance of the Garcias is an internal, church matter, and to allow the lawsuit to continue would be a violation of Scientology’s rights to religious expression. If he sides with the Garcias, he may make some interesting pronouncements about Scientology’s ‘justice’ rules while he finds that Scientology can be sued for fraudulent behavior without trampling its religious rights. It’s going to be a fascinating decision, and we expect that it will come pretty soon.

    Here’s Rinder’s affidavit:

    Continued here:
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  20. Ogsonofgroo Member

    My (rather low) opinion of Rinder went up a notch 'r two, that is one damning affidavit that shot CoS shill's stupid right down the tubes imho, good on him for growing at least one testicle.
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  21. Quentinanon Member

    I am happy to see Mike Rinder stepping up and doing something to expose the lies and fraud he helped perpetrate in his former cult career.
    • Like Like x 3
  22. RolandRB Member

    My opinion of him has gone way up in just this year (2014).
  23. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology wants Mike Rinder’s affidavit struck from the record

    By Tony Ortega

    A week ago, we told you that in their fraud lawsuit, Luis and Rocio Garcia had filed an affidavit by former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder to convince Tampa federal Judge James A. Whittemore that the church’s internal arbitration rules were a sham.

    It turns out Scientology wasn’t very happy about that.

    The church has filed a motion to strike Rinder’s affidavit, and they’re referring back to an earlier attempt by Scientology to have the attorneys for the Garcias disqualified. Although rare in most litigation, for Scientology it’s a standard part of its playbook — to try and get a plaintiff’s attorneys disqualified by making various allegations about breached confidentiality or other supposed ethical lapses.

    That gambit didn’t pay off in this case — and we were in Tampa to watch the fireworks as Scientology’s disqualification motion went down in flames. But now, a year later, the church is taking another bite at that apple as it brings up testimony from that mini-trial in an attempt to get Rinder’s declaration thrown out.

    We can’t help thinking it’s the content of Rinder’s statement that is most irritating the church.

    In his response to Scientology’s motion, Garcia attorney Ted Babbitt simply points out that when Mike Rinder says he personally knows that enrollment contract church members sign included promises about arbitration Scientology never had any intention of fulfilling, he was speaking from personal experience, not passing on confidential information given to him by an attorney (the basis of Scientology’s grievance).

    But we’ll let the lawyer types here in the Bunker tell us what they think about these legal salvoes. We sure can’t wait to see what Whittemore ultimately decides on this issue (the church’s motion to compel the Garcias to use Scientology arbitration and dismiss the lawsuit).

    Continued here:
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  24. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology denied: Mike Rinder’s affidavit will not be stricken in Garcia lawsuit

    We’re getting ever closer to what should be a pretty major ruling in the federal fraud lawsuit brought by Luis and Rocio Garcia against the Church of Scientology. Tampa District Judge James A. Whittemore will rule on Scientology’s contention that its rights as a religion prevent the Garcia grievances from being heard in a civil court, and the couple should instead be compelled to accept Scientology’s internal arbitration procedures.

    In the meantime, the church wanted a related declaration by former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder stricken from the record. In the declaration, Rinder calmly eviscerated the church’s claims about the legitimacy of its internal justice rules. The church didn’t like that, and it argued that Rinder was improperly relying on information he had received in confidence during his years as a top church executive.

    But Whittemore denied that request by the church, and we expect soon he’ll rule on the larger question about Scientology, its First Amendment rights, and allegations of fraud.

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  25. RightOn Member

    BWA HA HA!
    DM must be fuming! Especially that it Rinder's affidavit.
    Love it!
    • Like Like x 1
  26. BigBeard Member

    I think that's the shortest explanation for a denial I've ever seen, "Defendants have not shown that the Rinder's Affidavit contains confidential, proprietary, or privileged client communication, that Rinder is not competent to testify or that he has been paid for his testimony."

    Hey DM! :p Pththththtap!

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  27. Incredulicide Member

    This is being noticed in academia:
    Between Law and Religion: Procedural Challenges to Religious Arbitration Awards
    Journal: Chicago-Kent Law Review
    Author: Michael A. Helfand
    Publisher: Pepperdine University School of Law
    Date: May 12, 2014
    • Like Like x 7
  28. TorontosRoot Member

  29. Scientology is not the only religion that has been invented and created by humans. Actually, all of them are created by humans who are written books named shoah, coran and bible out of it, mentioning only the monoteist religions. Supposing that god exists, why humans need to follow books (written by other humans) to believe?
    • Like Like x 1
  30. TorontosRoot Member

    It beats me and it's a form of insanity.
    I don't follow religions or cults like scientology, I remain agnostic. Fuck religion.
  31. Random guy Member

    The problem lies in getting the US lawmakers to wake up and start treating religious groups the same way they would any other leisure activities.
  32. The Wrong Guy Member

    The questioner: Scientology brings in its legal ringer for a Florida showdown | The Underground Bunker

    We heard from a couple of readers who have been keeping an eye on the federal docket in the Luis and Rocio Garcia lawsuit against the Church of Scientology that a new document had been filed by the church on December 5.

    We thanked them, letting them know that we had noticed it, and that it was not a major new development in the case. But it is noteworthy, and we wanted to explain why.

    The December 5 filing was a submission by a California attorney, Bert Deixler, to be admitted pro hac vice so that he can appear in the Tampa courtroom and act on behalf of the church.

    So why is Deixler being brought in to the Garcia case in Florida? The simple answer is that Scientology leader David Miscavige likes to use Deixler for the taking of depositions. We’ve seen the church use him in the Laura DeCrescenzo forced abortion case in Los Angeles, as well as in Monique Rathbun’s harassment lawsuit against Scientology in Comal County, Texas. We personally witnessed him in action in both places, and we even approached him at the courtroom in New Braunfels, Texas to ask him a question he declined to answer. More on that in a minute.

    Deixler is needed in Tampa because, if you remember, Judge James D. Whittemore recently announced that he’s scheduled an evidentiary hearing for February 18. It will be something of a mini-trial so that he can make a decision on Scientology’s motion asking the court to compel the Garcias to use Scientology’s internal justice apparatus and dismiss the lawsuit from civil court. Scientology argues that allowing the lawsuit to continue is an infringement of its religious rights. The Garcias counter that their lawsuit is about fraud, not religion, and they say that Scientology’s internal arbitration system is a sham anyway. Scientology customarily makes this argument about religious arbitration in lawsuits, and so Judge Whittemore’s decision is a major one and could have a far-reaching effect. We sense that in calling for an evidentiary hearing, he’s being very careful in order to bolster whatever decision he makes in February.

    In order to prepare for that hearing, Whittemore has given both sides leave to take depositions, and Scientology will be taking a number of them — not only the Garcias, but former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder, his wife and former Sea Org member Christie Collbran, and others. For those depositions, Miscavige wants Deixler asking the questions.

    Rinder tells us he’s not intimidated by Deixler, and doesn’t mind being put through another questioning. Deixler will no doubt do a thorough job, and his high reputation may help shore up the Scientology team, which so far has featured some less than stellar moments for church attorney Wally Pope in Whittemore’s courtroom.

    But we want to make a point about Deixler’s stature. Should it take a hit for some of the things he’s already done for Scientology?

    Continued here:
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  33. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology attorneys ask Garcia judge — Keep Mike Rinder away from us! | The Underground Bunker

    We mentioned the other day that Scientology had brought in a ringer for the depositions it plans to take in the next phase of the federal fraud lawsuit brought by former church members Luis and Rocio Garcia. We said that the Garcias, as well as former Scientologists Mike Rinder and Christie Collbran and others expect to be deposed by Scientology’s special attorney, Bert Deixler.

    On the other side, the Garcias will be focusing on one deposition in particular. They’re planning on questioning Scientology’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis.

    Ellis submitted a declaration in the lawsuit that was taken apart in a response by Rinder — and we expect that the Garcia team is looking forward to asking Ellis about Rinder’s criticisms of Scientology’s internal “justice” procedures.

    Apparently, Scientology is a little nervous about that. Because the church has now filed a motion for a protective order, asking that when Mike Ellis is questioned, Mike Rinder should not be in the room.

    Rinder has been serving as a sort of paralegal to the Garcia legal team, and we suspect he might have been pretty useful as Ellis is being questioned. But Scientology is arguing that Rinder is a fact witness and so he can’t serve both roles.

    We’ll be interested to see if Judge James D. Whittemore agrees, or allows Rinder to attend the deposition.

    Here’s the motion:

    Continued here:
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  34. RightOn Member

    fucking cowards
    • Like Like x 1
  35. The Wrong Guy Member

    Garcia judge asks for a quick response about Scientology’s Rinder aversion

    Just yesterday we told you that Scientology is asking for its former spokesman, Mike Rinder, to be kept out of the deposition of the church’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis, in the federal fraud lawsuit brought by Luis and Rocio Garcia.

    Rinder has been acting as an expert witness and consultant for the Garcia team in the suit, which was first filed in January 2013. The Garcias are alleging that the church used fraudulent means to convince them to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars. The church responded by asking Judge James D. Whittemore to compel the Garcias to use Scientology’s internal arbitration procedures to settle the dispute, characterizing the dispute as religious in nature and not proper for a civil court.

    Whittemore has scheduled a hearing on February 18 to decide the arbitration motion, and he has allowed both sides to schedule depositions in advance of it. The Garcias are eager to question Ellis. The “IJC” submitted a declaration in the lawsuit that Mike Rinder subsequently trashed. Rinder cited his own personal experience of helping to write up the church’s arbitration rules, which he characterized as a sham.

    Scientology didn’t like the idea of Rinder sitting in with the Garcia team as Ellis is questioned in deposition, and it asked for a protective order to keep Rinder out.

    Continued here:
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  36. The Wrong Guy Member

    The Garcia legal team: Free Mike Rinder!

    We told you a few days ago that Tampa Federal Judge James D. Whittemore asked Luis and Rocio Garcia to submit a quick response to the Church of Scientology’s reasons for wanting former church spokesman Mike Rinder kept out of a deposition of a Scientology official in their fraud lawsuit.

    The church had argued that Rinder should be kept out of the deposition of Scientology’s “International Justice Chief,” Mike Ellis, because although he’s been working as a consultant for the Garcia team, he’s a witness in the case himself.

    But our legal experts had pointed out that Rinder is serving as an expert witness in the case, and so they tell us Scientology might have a hard time convincing Judge Whittemore to exclude him. Now, the Garcia team gives Whittemore even more reason to reject Scientology’s motion: They point out, for example, that Rinder’s own deposition (by the church) is scheduled a day before the questioning of Ellis — so sitting in on the IJC’s depo won’t have an effect on what Rinder says in his.

    Here’s the document. Whittemore will likely render a speedy order on this, because these depositions are scheduled early in January, and the big evidentiary hearing about Scientology’s arbitration motion is happening on February 18.

    Continued here:
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  37. The Wrong Guy Member

    Judge Whittemore to Scientology: No, you can’t keep Mike Rinder out

    Early in January, Luis and Rocio Garcia will get a chance to depose Scientology’s “International Justice Chief” Mike Ellis in their federal fraud lawsuit against the church, in preparation for a February 18 mini-trial at the Tampa federal courthouse.

    Scientology had hoped to bar former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder, who has been working as a consultant and expert witness for the Garcias, from that deposition.

    But Judge James D. Whittemore shows once again that he’s a stickler for detail as he denies Scientology’s request on what looks like purely procedural minutiae. Well, whatever the reason, the point is Rinder will get a chance to help out the Garcia legal team as they try to take apart Ellis under oath.

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  38. RightOn Member

    BWA HA HA HA!!
    • Like Like x 7
  39. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 5
  40. TorontosRoot Member

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