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Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

Discussion in 'Senator Xenophon And Scientology' started by duanon, Oct 19, 2009.

  1. Belladonna Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Great to hear. I hope the government and journalists get as much background information as possible, from many independent sources.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    from - The Coroner's 31 page inquest report





    Official inquest will be starting shortly -

    I'd say coroner needs the course packs on the 3 rundowns McBride took before his death

    Happiness Rundown - info found
    Drug Rundown - info found
    Arc Straightwire - cant see anything on this - any help?


    Coroner John Lock

    OFFICE OF THE STATE CORONER

    Brisbane
  3. OTBT Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    ARC Straightwire is basically contained in the book Self Analysis, which was leaked long ago.
  4. ryangiggs Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    keep updates coming in on this.

    Sounds like a future story for Today Tonight? Brian what's his name.
  5. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    The Church of Scientology has reached a new level of hypocrisy: In their most well known magazine "Freedom" they talk about an "adulteress" and they use material from the auditing files to discredit american critics in the St. Petersburg Times for PR purposes. But when it comes to a dead australian soldier, an official inquiry and a request by a coroner they make sure the auditing files are out of the country before the official request arrives, citing confidentiality. The people who are responsible for this have no honor or integrity.
    /useless complaining
  6. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    QFT

    That all depends on who sees it.
  7. Sponge Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    A snippet from the dox in that link:

  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Sad news, scientology must be ended.

    GO ANONYMOUS!
  9. Herro Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    So why is Scientology able to deny the request of those making the inquiry? Are they claiming confessional confidentiality? How does that work in Kangarooistan?

    Also, people might want to wait to blame scientology until you actually know whether or not they contributed to his suicide. Thinking they're an evil cult doesn't mean that they contributed to this you know.
  10. BigBeard Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    I suspect (just as with Lisa McPherson's logs) if the Cof$ decides, or is forced, to hand over the file, there will be several pages "lost in shipping" before the Australian coroner ever lays eyes on it.

    BigBeard
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    QFT.
  12. Vir Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Brisbane Times: Questions over Scientology's 19 calls in 48 hours before 110,000-volt suicide

  13. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    What is this?
  14. Belladonna Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Holeee shit.
  15. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    And then some, wow.

    Hints of CoS pressuring [strike]victims[/strike] 'parisioners' through guilt and heavy-handed coersion? Say it ain't so/imagine that.
    :rolleyes:


    Fuckers.

    RAEG

    grrrrrrrr.

    The really interesting part of this tragedy is that this person is quite dead, why the hell wouldn't the cult be releasing his files? Oh ya, its scientology folks~nothing ta see here, move along.........

    grrrrrrrrrrrrr agin.
  16. Zak McKracken Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Its OK.

    Police listened to them before the batteries died.

    Police Officer brain cells are the best possible, and most reliable storage medium imaginable.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    It's worth emphasising, wrt the hypocrisy, that when the 'confessor' is already dead, the files are supposedly sacrosanct - it's only while they're alive and still able to be 'destroyed by any means' that it's apparently okay to reveal peoples 'confessed' 'crimes'.

    They say the files are now in the hands of the US church, so they cannot comply with the request, and further, that it would be wrong to comply with a coroners request even if they could, since the material is a 'confessional'.
  18. Sol Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    They seem to think that thetans are an electromagnetic phenomena. Could that be why the electrocution?
    Is that what the “dead forever” comment in the story about Marcabian court means?
  19. Consensus Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    I don't think we're gunna see any prosecution (what crime was committed?), so the fact that the 'evidence' is lost isn't terribly significant. The story is itself a PR blunder for the CoS, so win there. Independent information about the reg procedures (and the fact that their incessant regging can and does drive people to suicide) is interesting, and good for us in a really grim way.

    Scientology has responded to us (and the effects we've had) by putting even more pressure on their already stressed members. This was (part of) the strategy all along, and the cult fell into the trap. The end result is that more and more people will blow. The fact that so many have demonstrated that blowing is possible, and that exes no longer fear the cult's reprisals, make for a very fertile opportunity.

    The cult's death-grip is broken, and the environment within the CoS has become far less hospitable. What happens when you open the door to a rat's cage, and then put an intense hot-plate inside? The rat bails.
  20. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Lolol, moar liek a 'gentle' warming from the outside with a giant no-name brand paint-stripper..... but I leiked it.
  21. Anonymous Member

  22. Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    Although I take your point, WWP has had to use many techniques akin to criminal profiling when it comes to Scientology because it is a clandestine organization.

    Forensic profiling is data-mining technology, and that is what WWP does well. Senior members of WWP are like virtual computers of information and usually steer wild speculation through their wise council.

    Relevant patterns are often discovered through speculation and profiles of Scientology as an organization are generated from large quantities of data shared internationally.

    Many Scientologists hide their status and it was through journalistic speculation that their status was discovered.

    Travolta's flight data when travelling in and out of the Bahamas does create a compelling pattern.

    Speculation about whether Scientology or their techniques are involved in these deaths is not only valid, it may me statistically damning when compared to other cults in relation to their membership numbers.
  23. Herro Member

    Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    You're missing the obvious problem. With all the complexity out there it's very easy to find "patterns" where none exist because you want to find those patterns. And also remember that a pattern by itself means nothing.
  24. WTF Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Can be affected by EM.

    EM is part of MEST. (matter-energy-space-time)

    Thetans are natively not MEST.
  25. bAnon Member

    Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    Well stated. Are you a pattern Herro?
  26. Consensus Member

    Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    There are *two* errors a brain (that is, a pattern-recognizing machine) can make:
    1) Seeing a pattern where there is none
    2) Failing to see a pattern where there is one.

    The first corresponds with things like schizophrenia or marijuana (false epiphanies anyone?), the second corresponds with things like low-IQ or drunkenness.

    Critical Thinking/rational skepticism is important for avoiding #1; not-being-retarded is important for #2.

    And discovering a pattern from which one can make predictions that are true at a rate that is better-than-chance means exactly the opposite of 'nothing' - a 'Real Pattern' only exists when there's a real effect. Discovering what that effect is, however, is much trickier. Point stands, though, that - once discovered - such a pattern can be used to 'play the odds.'

    edit - the existence of a real pattern - say, that a deck of card turns up non-face-cards more often than face cards - does not mean that every time you predict a non-face-card will be turned up, that you'll be right.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    At least Scientology is on the board now with 1 point, even if they do have a long way to catch up with the Iraqis and the Taliban.
  28. Herro Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Yes that is all correct but remember that we arent talking about basic pattern recognition here. We are talking about assignig meaning to events and constructing narratives that explain the perceived similarity among those events as being indicative of some underlying cause.

    Also remember that this process is a social one, with many individuals interacting with one another to construct meaning (in this case the perception of patterns) collaboratively. This type of activity cannot be reduced to the innate pattern recognition cognitive functioning of the brain alone.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    ^^ITT: Bisexual English Majors.
  30. OTBT Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    back on topic, here's a nice summary

    Church of Scientology Refuses to Allow Coroner on Suicide Case Access to Files

  31. Antagone Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    I can't draw any conclusion that Scientology contributed to this death and the thing is this constant pestering the Scilons were doing just seems the usual panic because someone had finished the courses they'd paid for and might not sign up for more. To the coroner and media it might look strange but I've read enough stories on here about people getting pestered when targets need to be met.

    Was there something in Edward McBride's psyche which the auditing stirred up? I don't know although I do think this sort of quack therapy can be dangerous.

    What I do know is the Cult are pretty damned evil for not handing over the folder. There's a family desperately needing some sort of closure and even if the contents of the folder would shed no light on what happened, at least it wouldn't leave that bit of doubt for the relatives.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Rave - The Day Scientology broke 10,000


  33. Re: Australian 'sci' soldier suicide - commission of inquiry

    Point taken. Brainstorming often has a speculative/ideas stage and a separate critical/filtering stage. On WWP, it seems to me that the speculative stage doesn't get a lot of air. Maybe that is because the purpose of these boards is more to have a credible public face for Chanology. That's the impression I get.

    back on topic - Regarding
    Church of Scientology questioned over former soldier Edward McBride's suicide
    The following 2 excerpts seem to have been overlooked
    I don't know how culpable they are for his suicide (he obviously had other problems), but they are certainly guilty of harassing a suicidal man. As people often get into Scientology when they are vulnerable, hopefully this will be a warning to others. Also, hopefully, the Australian military will take a death very seriously (ie look at other action).

    [speculation] I wonder if the possible closure of the Sydney org which is near the military office in the city has anything to do with this death? Timing would match.[/speculation]
  34. Olrik Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    Since a very recent ruling, all this stuff can be considered as part of a fraud. (not sure it's good english but i'm sure you see what i mean).
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Church of Scientology defied coroner on suicide

    Then they won't mind returning it so the authorities can see it... no, oh I see...

    Frankly B/S because auditing is exactly about dealing with one's state of (reactive) mind. What is the point to it if it doesn't reveal any issues (engrams / BTs) a person has?
  36. Consensus Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    I would not go out on a limb and put my credibility (lol) on the line to insist that this suicide was 'clearly' was a result of the cult's influence. But if the press wants to compose that narrative and run it, I don't see any reason to step in and say 'woah woah woah hold on guys.'

    Speculation - as mere speculation - about such a connection is perfectly fine. And by all means, keep an eye out for any facts that may confirm (or be consistent with) this narrative. Only a moonbat would draw a firm conclusion based on such flimsy evidence. But, again, if there are articles in the press that are bad-PR for scientology, I'm happy.

    That all said... it is important to make an effort to balance the kinds of articles that go out about scientology. If we had a TORRENT of articles that paint the cult as evil - but all of them come off as moonbattery - then we will only persuade the most gullible that scientology is evil. That may serve our purposes, as that's precisely scientology's target audience, but I want to see the cult utterly annihilated (not in a terrorist sense). If most articles are moonbattery, then more reasonable people will read even solid indictments of the cult with an excessively skeptical eye. If, on the other hand, the majority of articles about the evils of the cult are very well-documented, well-researched, and well-argued, then a few of these weaker articles can serve to amplify the effect.

    When we first started, most articles about scientology appeared to be moonbattery. This got a foot in the door, and our constant efforts (coupled with the fact that many damning facts about the cult ARE persuasively demonstrable) created better and more credible reports that the cult is harmful. This has never been more true than this week.
  37. Obi-Wan-anon Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    So the man's files are back at the "mother church".

    Who has the job of shredding parts of the files? This is taking the same path as Lisa McPherson.
  38. ARC Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    I stickied this thread so it doesn't get lost in the France/Tommy Davis Nightline/DM Beatings/Paul Haggis shitstorm.

    Should I make it "must read" for a day?
  39. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    That must be some fancy phone that when the batteries die voice mail gets deleted.

    I hope the batteries never die on my cell phone or I'd have to put in every ones numbers again.

    Hopefully some one will invent a miniature eprom so we can store information into devices and not worry about the power going out. I hope the power never goes out wwps hosting facility either before some one invents a way to store data without having constant power.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology snubs coroner over suicide soldier 'audit file'

    He was receiving auditing and that in itself is one mind fuck. He had a bad session, didn't have a floating needle at the end. They fucked him up. That is called a red-tag which means he must get back in session to fix it or some people get in loads of trouble and it is super bad for their statistics. They hound him repeatedly and the scilons do this all the time just ask any ex.

    If there is nothing in his confessional file (auditing folder) then give it up! That folder is long gone. There is no reason they would send that folder to the states unless they were hiding something. That sending to the states crap is not regularly done unless scientology is hiding something. It doesn't make sense, this guy had a screaming bad session, they want him to come in, he won't so they send his folder the states, bullshit!

    This guy was getting low level auditing actions but they fucked up and they are hiding this fact.

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