Discussion in 'Media' started by pooks, Apr 24, 2012.
A solar event? Like the one we're having right now?
You majoring in smarm?
I was referring to that "condensing" - it seems to add a lot more concise clarity to the stipulations imo but IANAL. But the room for broad interpretation of the longer version feels more directed and to the point now, and that's what make it *seem* more airtight.
I wonder why her lawyers let her talk to the media then. Unless she did it without consulting them.
Holy shit you're not serious are you? Please tell me I just trolled myself.
That was me, and I'm not...whoever you mean
Unless you are a tricky mod, in which case I get the grab the doc thing, but fuck off anyway.
Marty did organize it, but I suspect it was peanuts. I suspect there were a couple of indies with money that donated substantial sums behind the scenes.
Not to bring up a dead derail, but the main tenet of the Shakers was sex abstinence and maintaining virginity. The build up of sexual tension is one theory as to why they 'shook' during religious ceremonies. That sect was mainly women but had many men as well, but it's not surprising that the religion only lasted as long as a single generation (one generation's life span = 80 years). The Shakers simply did not reproduce, failed to get new converts (no sex is a tough sell), and died out after about 80 years.
Scientology is losing current members, failing to get new converts but still has those that reproduce as the only steady stream. They won't be going away completely like the Shakers for this reason. There will always be culties that begat more culties in this case.
Tikk - love your work as always.
What I am missing - what was the probability of getting David Miscavige on the stand? Could he be compelled to testify if Cooks lawyers wanted him to?
IANAL but it seems to me that if there was any possibility of getting Miscsavige on the stand, I believe that a large amount of cash would materialise very quickly as it is well speculated that this is his single greatest fear.
There is the leverage that Cook had.
Well, I enjoy speculation as much as the next critic. But I just wanted to add a(nother) useless thought: David Miscavige really is his own worst enemy. Humiliating his followers in public (well, inside Gold) produces masses of corroborating witnesses some of which will blow over time and be available to courageous ex-Damnation-Navy victims who wish to go to court. I'm all for these victims getting compensation, and if settlements are the way to get that, fine, but they don't have to accept a gag order - just see the examples set by Bonnie Woods and David Love. (That means you!, Ms or Mr Osa person taking this to COB )
I realise that relying on Marty and Rinder is a plan fraught with danger. However they are adamant that Miscavige engages his whole legal team to primarily avoid him seeing the inside of a courtroom.
If this is the case (big if) then certainly this is his achilles heel. Every ex should sue the church and push to have Miscavige deposed. If there is any chance he will - he will almost certainly settle with big dollars. This case has shown that there is a much bigger support cast (financially and emotionally) for anyone who sues and it is not as intimidating as in the OG days.
Which would be reasonably important if Mike and Marty were the only ones prepared to come forward. However....
How long before this is sussed out by ex-Sea Ogres, I wonder? The flip side of the ability of the Co$ to bring a legal budget of 10s of million of dollars to bear on a single critic is that David Miscavige personally handles all the important cases himself. If ex-members sue in two cases that doubles DM's workload. If ex-members sue in 10 cases, what happens?
The criminal organisation known as the "church" of $cientology has long played the game of getting a single critic tied up in many individual civil cases, each of which is unlikely to succeed but if the critic drops the ball in just one of them they end up facing contempt of court charges. This is the lawsuit-bombing technique as perfected since the early days (in the 70s, the GO in England admitted to having lost count of the number of lawsuits they had launched - in England). This technique is still being used (I now victims of it in France), along with the variation of getting fellow cults to front for them in court cases.
Ex-embers acting at the same time could enact the inverse: too many individual suits for David Miscavige to coordinate, too many cases for lawyers to respond sufficiently carefully to discovery motions, etc etc etc. Add last-minute evidence introduced at court meetings (Bob knows the clams do) and you have a situation that no amount of re-reading The Art of War and no amount of whiskey is gong to fix. And David Miscavige is going to end up facing contempt of court charges.
Now, as for my fee for this excellent advice....
Yes. Workload will be difficult for him.
But the really important point is this cowardly mans fear. He has not been interviewed since the early 90's no doubt out of fear. That would be nothing compared to a lawyer that is smarter and more eloquent than he, peppering him with questions UNDER OATH. He knows that he would not survive this, if he didnt crack in court his perjured testimony will no doubt catch with him.
HE CANNOT EVER TAKE THE STAND and now is the time for ex-scientologists to realize this and attack as one.
True; however, eventually they will be bereft of a (OK, semi-)literate leadership.
Someone told me that if you sue someone in small claims court, that they don't have lawyer reprensation?
They were referrring to somone who sued a car company ( I think) and took them to small claims court instead of going the other route and it worked in their favor because of the lack of lawyer representation on the defense side?
Can this be true?
DM would have to show up without a lawyer?
There is a low cap of how much a person can receive of course in small claims court.
But if many cases are filed, it can end up costing COS a bunch.
The lulz would outweigh any amount of money that someone would recieve by a land slide.
A bunch of exs suing DM in small claims court in seperate cases would be beyond delicious. no?
If in fact that is the truth about small claims court works, AND if that is the way the law works in CA.
Cult barratry in reverse... nice
Don't forget the public buggering
yeah but the difference is, is that it would not be fair game or harrassment. These exs not only have legitimate real "beefs", they deserve some sort of compensation for what they have endured under DM's hands.
They wouldn't be fake made up cases like the ones that COS is famous for.
Already there are people on record countering DM and each other in past cases. I think people should get their hands on transcripts and use it to lock the cult in to lies. It would also become clear that people will say anything to protect him and by doing so hang him.
He's been deposed at least twice already, once by the late Toby Plevin in Bent Corydon's case and once as a joint deposition in the Erlich/Henson/Ward cases. He did not crack in either case. In fact, his testimony was virtually worthless.
He is entirely capable of attending a deposition. He would prefer not to, but it would not be the dramatic event many think. It has happened at least twice already.
While there might be amusing fallout like the bizarre buggery outburst, it would not cause the cult to collapse overnight.
but more negative exposure would help stop people from joining and may speed up the process of its demise.
Also DM was deposed YEARS ago.
Add years of scotch and mounting paranoia and he is not the same little thetan he was years ago
Over at ESMB they had a decent suggestion. Needs a Debbie Cook episode of South Park.
Whoa! Did I miss an episode?
I believe that our Denise has collected a list of DM's direct or indirect perjuries already?
Fuck off dipshit.
Interestingly enough, Marty said originally he paid 50K to Debbie Cook attorney, yet yesterday he posted the total amount was $10,600 .00. Lie much, Marty?
I don’t trust anything M&M say. I take what Marty and Mike say, turn it around 180 degrees and that might be the truth, maybe, perhaps.
Years ago (actually, now, two decades ago) I heard the several hours of Toby Plevin deposition of Miscavige. As I recall, from listening, and from talking to Plevin, Miscavige chain smoked Camel cigarettes and paced the floor the entire time, while his lawyers kept interrupting the questioning.
Being forced to sit in court - not in a deposition, but in a court room - under a "wog" judge, and asked questions, while not being allowed to smoke, I wonder how he would do these days?
Where did Marty say this? Can you link?
He did testify in court as the leader of Scientology in the Ontario Snow White case, 1992.
On the other hand, he was just there to sing the song of the Evil Guardian Office and how they were disbanded by plucky reformers lead by himself. I doubt he faced much in the way of hostile questioning. (Because Scientology management was still a black box to the prosecution.)
Interesting how even AFTER Snow White was busted by the Feds, "Scientologists in the Guardian's Office were" STILL "committing crimes".
So... was there a second Guardian's Office in between the Snow White-era Guardian's Office and the Office of Special Affairs?
I'd bet Miscavige'd answer, "I never had a second Guardian's Office."
Did not know that DM has been deposed before, let alone twice. That sucks that he didn't crack.
That's some wishful thinking. As much fun as we make of him here, he unfortunately hasn't looked drunk or paranoid in the numerous leaked event videos. I tend to go with tikk and muldrake's informative takes of things.
The crimes in Ontario were committed 1983 and earlier. It took ten years to bring it to trial due to a massive delaying operation by CoS. (They settled quickly in the American Snow White case because they were protecting Hubbard.)
The event videos are literally staged events. Roboticly reading to peons from the teleprompter while wearing a massive amount of makeup isn't the same as being grilled on the witness stand.
What drugs do judges smoke that they don't find something massively suspicious in that kind of delaying activity? Candian "FBI" 'fraid to raid?
I think Miscavige'd rather flee than risk being put on the stand nowadays. He can always go to Australia.
A deposition, where he plays at being the pacing-the-floor chain smoking alpha-male, is not the same as a courtroom, especially a courtroom where he would be questioned on sensitive topics by a good lawyer.
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