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Scientology settles with Debbie Cook

Discussion in 'Media' started by pooks, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. exOT8Michael Member

    Just to use up the rest of your Debbie Cook popcorn I am reposting a forum statement I made on the intertubes (alt.religion.scientology, at the time) on April 11 2001. Debbie the insider may be silenced but many of us are not, and we were insiders too..

    Scientology Subject: Just for the record. PATTINSON STATEMENT
    From: michaelpattinson
    Message-ID: <3ad3ec46$1_1@news.nntpserver.com>
    Date: 11 Apr 2001 00:31:50 -0500
    PUBLIC STATEMENT This posting may be freely posted to the wwweb, copied or published as long as it is correctly quoted without being altered from its original meaning.
    **************************************************************
    In case I have never posted this, or made it publicly clear, I want to state that I hereby withdraw any and all support I have ever given to Scientology since 1973.
    I was misled by trickery, false PR, lies and deceit into believing that Scientology was "mankind's only hope", "the only way out of the trap of death-and-rebirth' and that it wanted to "clear the planet of war, criminality and insanity". I have since found out that the cult of $cientology does not really achieve results towards those ends. It works to perpetuate ITSELF at any cost, and that is ALL.
    Period.
    After being loyal to that cause for over 24 years, helping broadly as a celebrity with news PR, a volunteer, auditor, and FSM contributing heavily all the time, and going all the way to the top of the "Bridge" (which goes only into the centre of the abyss and leaves you there) i.e. New OT8 I was suddenly subjected to fair game by OSA. For no valid reason my "OT status" (pause for guffaws of laughter) was revoked even though I had attained the level of "New OT8" by paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.
    The idiots at OSA France and the even more idiotic local CC Exec. decided that, after all that loyalty I must really be "the enemy" as I was writing articles on Art and Culture.
    This was utterly unacceptable (even though it had been my profession for 20 years) to OSA that I was "writing"
    as only LRH could write on Art, and anything else was "squirreling".
    Suddenly I found myself being treated as a kind of "criminal".
    False reports were written in quantity from people who were told what to write by OSA, and sent to the OT8 Ethics Officer etc.....
    I fought the injustice by applying policy, standardly and to the letter,... for 6 years, with fair game and attacks on me all the way. false "Issues" from HCO on me, Committees of Evidence that lasted for years, Sec Checks, Ethics handlings, false reports by the dozen with no copies to me, repeated Fair Game by OSA on my businesses and friends, covert gossip campaigns by OSA, expensive ransom payments to be freed from being held against my will on the Freewinds ship, etc...(lots more). The constant strictly applied use of policy against this assault was INEFFECTIVE.
    The Scientology "justice system" (what a JOKE!) was based on whims not facts, and on the politics of money, money, money not truth. In the end I had enough, and had spent over $125,000 just to try to clear my name of the false reports from OSA France and CC Paris and their robotic minions who would betray a friend so easily.
    In 1997 I finally had more than enough of the deceit, lies and treason of Int Management and left the cult.
    I went to the Clearwater Police Dept for help but they did not act on my complaint. They did, however, supply me with a copy of the book "L.Ron Hubbard. Madman or Messiah?", and I was finally in touch with the the truths that Scientology had hidden from me for all those years. I found the book fascinating and very enlightening!
    So then I was finally out, in September 1997. It was a considerable relief, and I don't miss Scientology one bit.
    I have never once "needed a session" since then , not because of the effectiveness of the bogus auditing programs but because I reconnected with my own private reality of the "Supreme Being".
    I tried to get my money back from Scientology by litigation but they preferred to harass and fair game me and my attorney into bankruptcy and personal ruin rather than follow the laws of due process of litigation.
    Therefore I revoke and cancel any and all support, recommendation or positive PR I have ever given to Scientology at any time.
    The truth of the real behavior and results of the Scientology cult, in my extensive experience, is the opposite of its stated goals and purposes. I got both no-results and bad results from Scientology. It was very costly in time, money and stressfully-enforced loyalty of personal contribution and the end product was nowhere near worth the investment.
    Not even remotely a good investment.
    This is posted on the 10th anniversary of the day the CC Paris Exec. first violated policy under orders from OSA France and fair gamed an OT8.
    Silly OSA. Silly Sea Org.
    Much love and compassion to those who have been similarly duped and harmed by Scientology.
    Michael.
    • Like Like x 17
  2. incog712 Member

    Black PR and disconnection in my indy movement?

    It's more likely than you think.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Anonymous Member



    Thanks for the link. Interesting article. I find it telling comparing how the LSD versus the CoS handles bad news.
  4. Random guy Member

    Oh so very much so!
  5. Zak McKracken Member

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  6. Anonymous Member

    35lyucm.jpg
  7. i'mglib Member



    It seems to me that Debbie Cook had a lot of leverage--but maybe I just don't get it. She had said that her testimony so far was just the tip of the iceberg. Presumably she was going to talk about money and financial shenanigans. Testimony about a billion dollars socked away is pretty damaging I would think.

    If we can believe, as she said, that the best was yet to come, it seems the damage to the church would way outweigh the damage to Debbie Cook. She could be set back years, as you say, but the church could be knocked out completely. Even the little bit of testimony garnered a lot of headlines, but a full blown trial with multiple witnesses would be sensational. I think the news coverage would be massive, especially if Church officials were called to the stand. Who would speak for them? Tommy? Karin? Someone out of the hole? David Miscavige himself? No matter what, it would be bad. And then on Debbie's side it seemed that Marty and Mike were ready to testify. Knowing that the church gave in during the pre-trial, that would seem to show that DM really really wanted to stop the testimony from going forward. They cried Uncle! Clearly they thought it was bad.

    I feel they would have paid her to sign the agreement again...only this time with more stipulations. She can't even associate with others now. Why would she agree, unless she were paid. I realize it ws the church who filed the suit, but she was even doing TV interviews, so if they just dropped it, she probably would have kept on talking. Why wouldn't she? She had gotten away with it.

    I think they wanted her to stop talking FOR REAL. If they just dropped it, she wouldn't have stopped. That's where the money comes in. To force her to sign this more draconion agreement.

    That's my humble opinion...an IANAL.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Anonymous Member

    The "Church of Scientology" has *always* been a front group.

    The cult of Hubbard has many front groups. It's largest front group, currently, is the "Church of Scientology."

    It will still be around years from now when you have a job working for the post office and are worried about your blood pressure.

    The turning point came in 1993, when the IRS caved and gave the Hubbard cult everything they wanted and more.

    Ask yourself this: How many people are in the Mafia?
  9. Anonymous Member

    This is not really surprising. When he lets critical comments through it is often so that he and his followers can insult the commenter.

    You either in total agreement with Marty or you are OSA.

    From Rinder's comments, he hasn't bought into the Marty party line.
  10. Tourniquet Member

    This spoke volumes to me. Thanks, Michael.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Anonymous Member

    Transcriptionists Uber Alles!
  12. tikk Member

    While I'm sure Cook had a lot more to interesting things to say, if I had a dime for every time I heard that this ex-member---no really, this ex-member--has testimony that's going to be the straw that breaks Scientology's back, I'd need to buy some sort of dime holding mechanism.

    So many people seem sure that Cook's future testimony would have been so blockbuster that Scientology would have been rocked to its core, but (a) no one supposing this has any idea what that testimony would be (A &quot;billion dollars socked away?&quot; That's damaging how?); but more importantly, (b) the people who do know what that testimony would be--i.e., Cook and Scientology--have already negotiated a deal to keep Cook quiet and the price was $100,000 to her and her husband; and (c) you really believe her lawyer would advise her to lead with the weak stuff at her injunction hearing?

    You and anyone else who believes that Cook was paid any significant amount beyond what she and her husband had already been paid, need to explain why the price, in your minds, has suddenly skyrocketed. Cook no longer had any opportunity to glean actual firsthand knowledge after she signed the NDA, so her actual knowledge hadn't changed. Scientology was entirely aware of what Cook could possibly testify to at that point in time, else they wouldn't have negotiated the agreement in the first place.

    I think many people are basing this supposition on the idea that she was &quot;winning&quot; in court. But while Cook did indeed have a great day of testimony Scientology definitely didn't want her to have, that testimony didn't bring the court any closer to deciding the underlying issue, and Cook remained very vulnerable to that issue up until the point where a court ruled on the NDA's validity.

    I believe and have said before that Cook had a very good defense; defenses, actually. But Scientology's argument was hardly baseless, and if the court found the agreements valid, Cook would have been destroyed. This was not a hypothetical risk, and everyone monday-morning-quarterbacking this thing needs to realize that the very real risk of a high six-figure judgment accruing 9% interest forever until paid, acting as a lien against everything you own, would play heavily into your calculus when considering engaging in a game of litigation chicken with Scientology.

    She was not in a negotiating position of such strength as a defendant, that she could turn the case on itself and demand money in addition to stopping Scientology from collecting on its claim. Nor would she have been in a great position to continue the suit to determine the NDA's validity (and thus actually &quot;win&quot;) if Scientology asked to settle, having admitted to being broke and depending on Marty for donations.

    I understand why everyone, Marty especially, wants to believe that Cook was the magic bullet that was going to take out Scientology but the idea doesn't make sense given the practical realities of the suit itself. I've yet to hear a plausible scenario for Cook being paid a significant amount of money that doesn't involve a mystery sandwich.
    miracle.gif
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  13. Yeah, would have been nice to get a few more days in court and the associated lulz and media coverage. But if she was going to spill anything significant -- say about Lisa McPherson -- she probably would have done so already.

    And really, she's unlikely to know more than Mike and Marty on this front and unlikely to talk about it for similar reasons (legal liability and / or not inviting further scrutiny of the dangerous aspects of "tech").
  14. DeathHamster Member

    Marty's just pissed that a high-ranking ex-exec left and isn't spilling the really damaging intel on CoS internal operations.

    Heh. Welcome to our world Marty...
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Anonymous Member

    And that HE didn't get her jewgolds...
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Anonymous Member

    BFD. So did many of the rest of us.
  17. tikk Member

    Marty's pissed because he evidently saw Cook's suit as his. He found the lawyer, he paid for the lawyer with funds he helped gather, and he was likely influential on how the defense proceeded. Why else would he refer to news of her settling as "treachery"? Ironically, or perhaps not, Scientology, in collaterally attacking the Lisa McPherson suit, alleged that Bob Minton wrongly saw the McPherson case as his, using it as a proxy to attack Miscavige. They were both wrong, of course--the decision to settle always belongs to the party to the case and them alone, because the party bears the risk. There are differences, but like Minton, Marty is a megalomaniac hell-bent on harpooning the Moby Dick of Hemet, and who won't hesitate to use people to get there.
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  18. Dott Member

    Youre in luck, we have dime holders on sale today, only $100,000 each.
    • Like Like x 3
  19. muldrake Member

    As is usual, I concur with tikk.

    I believe Debbie probably planned it out this way. Her initial email was calculated to cause as much damage as possible in one action, which makes sense if you are planning to go away. She did more damage to Scn in one action than many "effective critics" do in years. That doesn't happen accidentally.

    I also see no reason whatsoever Scientology would need to offer her lots of money to go away. I think her plan was to take a whack at the people who fucked her over, do the damage all at once, and then get away unscathed. As the saying goes, revenge is a dish best served cold, and it doesn't get colder than this.

    As for Martay, he mad cause he intended to use Debbie for his own purposes. Instead, he got used like a twenty-dollar whore. Poor Martay.

    As horrible as the things Debbie Cook did were, I have to admire her sense of strategy. I have almost never seen someone slip a dagger in the back of the cult while taking less personal damage.

    But walking away with a pile of money? Didn't happen. I'd bet on it. There was no reason for them to pay her off. If she pursued the litigation to its conclusion, the best she'd get is not slapped with a huge judgment. The worst the cult faced is a questionable contract getting ruled to be bullshit. What is more likely is that the liquidated damages clause would be stricken, but then the parties would have to litigate what the real quantum of damages should be.

    I could see them throwing in a nominal sum (in Scn litigation terms) like $100K to cover costs and sweeten the deal a bit, but I think it is more likely the parties just agree to walk away and Debbie agrees to shut up. I doubt she minds, and I doubt she ever intended to say any more than she already did.

    I'd count this as a win for Debbie.
    • Like Like x 4
  20. muldrake Member

    Scn is pretty compartmentalized. While CO of FSO is a commanding position at the most important Scn org, it is not Exec Strata at the INT level. (Damn that is a dense stretch of Scientology gibberish.)

    I doubt she could have spilled much that wasn't local. I suppose it's too bad we don't know what she knew about Lisa McPherson.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Anonymous Member

    LOLcat piggy bank, just for you sir:
    [IMG]
    • Like Like x 2
  22. Anonymous Member

    From an onlooker:
    While the scions won Jan Eastgate and Debbie Cook, you are still winning. It burns their candle at both ends. The more fronts they fight, the more resources they use up, the more they need 'donations', the more people leave, the harder it is to recruit.
    WIN
    This is a tough enemy with money and a carefully crafted power base of tricksters and criminals.
    And Debbie Cooks letter is still out there.
    • Like Like x 4
  23. Anonymous Member

    Hai there Marcab agent 23X7,

    Please do not blow your cover yet, you have much more important work to do. *wink*
    Also don't forget to grab all the dox you can before you "blow". This is most critical.

    Keep up the good work, the fate of mankind rests in your hands.
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Anonymous Member

    The vault materials are not "full of typos," the typos angle was just something used on the membership to get them to buy more books.

    The vaults exist because L. Ron Hubbard left instructions and orders that they exist.

    The idea is that, after a great planetary catastrophe, Hubbard's writings, and Scientology, would still remain.

    If a solar event blows out the electrical power grid worldwide, and fries everyone's computers, leading to months or years of chaos, then, when the dust settles, a few years or a few decades later, Scientology will still be here.

    THINK!
  25. i'mglib Member

    Here is a possible reason why she could have gotten some dough out of the deal, and what changed between the first and the second agreement.

    The first NDA agreement she signed was under circumstances where she held virtually no cards. She and Wayne were likely messed up in the head, exhausted, virtual prisoners who just wanted to get out. According to her, she didn't even ask for the money...they pushed it on her.

    This time it's totally different. This time she's out, she can freely talk to people, team up with other SPs, contact friends, exes, authorities, and most importantly the Media. And the biggest reason I believe she held more cards this time is because the original NDA had essentially evaporated. She was giving out interviews as if it never existed. It seemed a book, a big TV story (CNN, Nightline, BBC) could easily have been in the cards. Before she was a nobody with no connections. Now she was a person on the media's radar who was giving out interviews about alarming things going on with Tom Cruise's best man. From what I understand DM hates that. Also, if she continued giving interviews, and then the church won, Wow, would they look bad. Like, why is this alleged church committing these abuses and then shutting people up with the courts' aid? I really think they needed to nip this in the bud.

    True she had a lot to lose. $300 grand is a ton of dough. But, there are many people who owe that much for their college education, and they seem to be able to survive.

    How much would it be worth to the church? How much would she want in exchange for removing the risk of losing given the odds. To me it had to be greater than zero. How many people here would have dropped it for zero?
  26. Anonymous Member

    Possibly me, if the other choice was no access to my children. Fortunately I've never been in that position.
  27. Zak McKracken Member

    you're thinking too hard.
    Hubbard expected the Apocalypse in his lifetime.

    [IMG] [IMG]

    dianazene FTW
    • Like Like x 1
  28. i'mglib Member

    Yup, that's the one big thing that could tip the scale way over, IMO. If the church used Wayne's sons as blackmail/extortion.
  29. DeathHamster Member

    I certainly wouldn't trust CoS to honor a hypothetical no-disconnection promise. It wasn't in the court agreement, and afterwards they have no cards left to play if CoS breaks that promise.
  30. LocalSP Member

    I believe that Debbie ran into a person holding a huge briefcase that held a very large amount of money ( that she forgot to mention to her lawyer ). The person gave Debbie said briefcase and then disappeared. Debbie calls her lawyer and told him to make a deal.

    I think that maybe we should keep tabs on Debbie and her lifestyle for any strange changes.
  31. Anonymous Member

    After closely comparing the terms of the original 2007 NDA general release with the agreed upon final injunction, it would appear that the biggest concern in the aftermath of this mess is that scilons have learned a great deal about CYA tech from this endeavor.

    The relevant stipulations that still apply to Debbie and Wayne in their life in the real world are all seemingly still intact, except now it seems much more straight forward and bullet proof under the newly improved wording.

    In b4 new NDAs drawn up for all departing staff and SO from this point forward.

    Debbie Cook Scientology Case - Cook & Baumgarten Agreements and General Release Oct 2007

    Debbie Cook Scientology Case - Settlement Agreement Injunction 23Apr-2012

    Full legal archive of all relevant dox from various sources (thx AL!)
    http://www.scribd.com/collections/3524200/Scientology-Lawsuits-Debbie-Cook-Wayne-Baumgarten
  32. Anonymous Member

    The final plans for Hubbard's vaults were drawn up in the late 1970s, early 1980s.

    Hubbard spoke of Scientology lasting for 10,000 years and its enemies becoming forgotten dust.

    That's the time scale that Hubbard envisoned, and planned for.

    You're envisoning days, months, and maybe a couple of years.

    You think small and brief.

    Hubbard was nuts, but he thought, if not big, LONG, as in enduring.
  33. Anonymous Member


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  34. tikk Member

    How so? I (admittedly lightly) compared the two and concluded that the relevant language is largely a condensed version of section 6 of the NDA, minus the prohibition against disclosing OT materials. I don't have the time or inclination to drop it all into a spreadsheet and compare, but I do know that far more language in the NDA from section 6 did not make it into the judicial order than was added. The only additions that I could see was the clarification of the definition of "non-public information."
  35. Tourniquet Member

    There's no such a thing as an earthquake-proof anything... unless it's orbiting the planet.

    So much for Hubbard's thought process.
  36. Anonymous Member

    TL;DR. Short version: Debbie sold her integrity and all her “indie friends”
  37. Anonymous Member

    Marty is pissed because he thought Debbie was going to bring in the big whales to his Shack. His #1 FSM is gone lol
    • Like Like x 2
  38. Anonymous Member

    Scientology isn't going to go away as long as there is anyone gullible enough to buy into it. Sooner than later it will be reduced to a few small groups of true believers, sharing their cans and their memories. The money will have moved on, and with that so will the rampant abuses inherent in the tech. The only value those plates at Trementina will have is their weight in scrap, barely worth the trouble of hauling them out.
  39. Anonymous Member

    No one mentioned earthquakes. In the years to come, more and more content will become electronic, with paper books and paper records becoming rare. A solar event (do you even know what I'm talking about?), knocking out the power grid and computers, world wide, would plunge society into a new dark age.

    1.000 years later...
  40. tikk Member

    First, it's almost always a mistake to think bad publicity factors more heavily into Scientology's calculus than a reasonable organization's calculus. They've endured self-perpetuated bad publicity before and will endure it again and again. I've read for years critics make inaccurate assumptions about actions Scientology would never take because of the bad publicity it would cause, only to watch them go ahead and do exactly that. And then everyone's tune changes to "Scientology can sure be counted on for a footbullet, huh?"

    Second, you propose that what changed between the NDA being initially signed and today was Cook's level of sophistication, understanding of the process, and media contacts. While it's true that she may have accepted less money than Scientology may have offered a wiser party at the signing of the NDA, her body of actual knowledge with which she could adversely affect Scientology by her testimony was a variable that remained constant from the point Scientology decided to sue her for breach to Monday. Your argument that something substantively changed between then and now has to account for both parties seated at the negotiation table, because I'm still not understanding how whatever gumption Cook gained in the interim would have actually affected the price of Cook's silence.

    What you also may have missed is that while Cook was out there talking to the media, she was exponentially raising her potential calculable liquidated damages. Her few media spots were basically a rehash of her testimony, but while her testimony was privileged and thus couldn't count against her, her media spots were not privileged, a fact which could have wound up costing her far more than the e-mail.

    On this same topic, her media spots also had the adverse affect of knocking the floor out from a few of her legal defenses, those which involved arguing that the contents of the e-mail did not constitute a breach. Even if that were found to be true--and I argued here and elsewhere that there were good reasons the e-mail didn't breach--the media spots almost certainly did constitute a breach of the NDA. Scientology may have withdrawn their injunction request (which was largely duplicative of the NDA), but the court never ruled on the validity of the NDA. By doing those media spots, not only did she jack up her calculable damages, she shrunk the number of her available defenses, and accordingly shrunk her negotiating leverage.
    • Like Like x 1

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