I'm a fan because I'm hoping you get so distracted by your awesome projects you no longer have time to aim your tentacles at TonyO.
arrrggghhhh.... spit my coffee all over myself on that lulz. LOL! EDIT: also its the other way around. my projects, occasionally, NEED a distraction. they don't serve as one. and my TonyO virtual obsession all started when i was working on the quotation segments for this project: Spent 5 weeks with bible in hand near constant when i initially compiled ^That stuff. it backfired. I have nevar been the same, since.
AnonLover, This is outstanding, thank you. LRH nails it in Volume I “but actually religion doesn’t lead anybody anyplace, in the final analysis because you never get your wish anyway, so of course one can’t survive on the basis of sprits and religion and so forth.”
Finally getting a chance to look into ^^This excellent find. DO WANT LEAKY LEAK from the original 1966 edition: http://www.amazon.com/What-Cults-Believe-irvine-robertson/dp/B000RAXD3O/ It's apparently been reprinted several times, the current one from 1991 is listed on amazon.com here: http://www.amazon.com/What-Cults-Believe-Irvine-Robertson/dp/0802494145/ Altho an interesting point, without having first hand account or other documentation, ^^This is one of those lost-cause hypotheticals that no research will ever prove so no point spinning wheels in that direction. (Unless one of the authors on Sci & Bible booklet comes fwd... and mai prayers & hopes & dreams ALL get answered when they let me interview them for my research.) However, the 1966 edition is contemporary to the phase of Hubbard's spiel where he was rampantly refining, refactoring, and sometimes even re-defining his "itsa spiritual/religion" schtick. And I already have that evolution of refinement of his applied approach to using the "r" word to his benefit mapped out in my series already. But a contemporary opinion, from the other side of the fence in more ways than one, would be an INCREDIBLY insightful popular-perspective reference to have an excerpt from. (and give me the necessary tandem of contemporary perspective from Hubtard's 'peers' on said "r" word usage evolution, to draw an knowledge assumption from when combined with the Manly Hall on Dianetics dox1 and dox2 gotten awhile back) Attn: ALL Beloved Studentfags with university library cards - please chk yer school library for me? See iff'n you can find the 1966 version (i got 1991 ver ordered). From what's available on google books, i can easily slice up a pages-wanted list for a short lil scanning exercise & I wont pester you for the whole thing. But we gotta find it first. I'm currently culling worldcat for a list of all US public libraries it shows up in: http://www.worldcat.org/title/what-the-cults-believe/oclc/3437925 ^^But since itsa UK publication, those on the far side of the pond might likely have better luck finding it off-campus if you use link above and customize the Library search infos at the bottom of the worldcat page to chk yer local areas. (Note almighty search filter link near upper right corner of initially displayed search results, to show only libraries with "this edition" - cuts things down quite abit and its only the '66 edition i'm interested in)
!959 St. Hill, LRH in his office, The Buddha statue with the L Ron Hubbard name plate on the shelf below caught my eye. I wonder when LRH first promoted/believed that he was Maitreya reincarnated? View attachment 00003da6.jpeg
Nice catch their HH, that's the 2nd pic i've seen with the same statue. but the furniture placement is different, other pic that bookshelf with statue is next to hubbard seated at a desk. it be fun to fine another shot, showing it somewhere else... since we know dam well it was just stage prop. surely it moved from place to place.
53 pages of search results on worldcat for 1966 edition in the US. Mostly universities & bible colleges. None in my immediate vicinity But tons of them elsewhere, especially in the Chicago & midwest areas. But i got a short hit list for potential places i either travel to for work-related stuff, or have contacts in that area, that I can possibly pursue long term (after Christmas) So i'm hoping other peeps elsewhere can hook me up. Please chk the worldcat search for your local area. Here's some likely spots where I found it outside of a major institutional setting or at schools I've heard protestfags mention in passing that I thought might be prime targets for Anons wanting to halp me find it: ATLANTA-FULTON PUBLIC LIBRARY SYSTEMBeverly Hills Public LibraryBoston College - Thomas P. O'Neill LibraryBrevard Community College (Cocoa FL)CARNEGIE LIBRARY OF PITTSBURGHCINCINNATI & HAMILTON COUNTY PUBLIC LIBRARYCalifornia State University Fullerton - Paulina June & George Pollak LibraryCalifornia State University, Los Angeles - John F. Kennedy Memorial LibraryCatholic University of America (DC)Chicago Public LibraryCleveland Public LibraryLos Angeles Public LibraryManhattan Public Library DistrictMiami-Dade Public Library SystemNorfolk Public LibraryOak Park Public Library (Chifags)San Francisco Public LibraryWichita Public Library +500 internet babies from me2u for whoever finds it first
Question: The Foundation Auditors Course of the early 1950's, is it still sold/packaged in the current offerings on the SCN Bridge? Rolled into the SHSBC or a congress maybe? Or is this some course material thats fallen by the wayside? Reason I ask is I've diced out an excerpt from the ever popular "SELF-DETERMINISM ON THE DYNAMICS" Lecture transcript from 1951 where the framework for Hubbard's theory that 8th dynamic aberrations from religion & faith cause insanity and whatnot: http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=495&Itemid=111 And I'm trying to find imagery to stick on it... I typically pull the DVD or book cover image of whatever its currently sold as when it comes to the pre 1970's stuff. But I'm not finding nothing in google for The Foundation Auditors Course stuff :/
Latest Greatest Project Outline: Scientology Religiosity? Materials Index Today's change log comment: Also - I haz the rough cut drafts generated on Vols 3 & 4 (front matter & core content only) sitting here on my desk in front of me. Vol III release, any day now.
Oh look, it's been found. http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=3200252038&searchurl=an=robertson+irvine&bsi=30
First thing in the morning, i'm too tired from trimming the tree to be arsed to go bak downstairs and search out where my pocketbook might be hiding.
Crossposting some great misc. refs for this project Sponge haz mentioned recently ovar on the sibling OCMB researchfag thread or that I found elsewheres: ^^ZOMG DO WANT the first book for aiding my project stuffers!!! if evar there was sekrit santa out there, who wanted to show AL sum braniac <3.... this would be it! Also, the following quickie lecture from TEDx is an excellent sauce for comparative usage of looking at scilon religiosity from all angles, including the non bible-thumping variety of scrutiny! TEDxPeachtree - Frans de Waal - Morality without Religion by Frans de Waal, reknowned monkey expert http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxPeachtree-Frans-de-Waal-Mor;search:tag:"ep111911" Both vids in first & last items above well worth the watch, especially for lulzy wisecrack Dr. Frans makes on #OWS in the last 5mins.
Tis MINE nao. And depending on how much diffs I find between the '66 vs. '91 versions, I might just circle bak and get one of the '79 versions they still have listed once i swooped the only 1st edition: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=3200252038&searchurl=an=robertson+irvine&bsi=30
Hey all, riddle me this cuz imma busy-busy doxmeister ATM and cant find it... Where Did Hubbard Say That His Own Case, was a prime example of a "typical case" ???? TIA!
It's been pointed out to me by someone outside the hive, that I needs to be including an excerpt from "Mission into Time" in the later volumes in my series where i get into the heavy duty weirdo woo crap. And although that book isn't exactly doctrine/tech, it was marketed heavily in advance mags & courseware catalogs with thick religiosity undertones. So methinks the feedback giver likely haz a valid point. But I've never bothered saving Hubbard's fiction book leaks. Anyone happen to remember if Mission into Time was ever leaked?
For my fellow christfags out there who enjoy a lil bible study style research every once in awhile, I haz a bone to chew on that could use some extra eyes. This food4thought brain twister challenge is in regards to the Advance! Magazine "Spiritual History of Man" articles that are driving my dox compilation efforts in this project. Ever notice how the Christian-themed cover stories, do an awful lot of indirect referencing to judeo-christian scripture, yet seldom do they actually cite the bible passage their referring too? And a lot of times, those indirect references just don't seem quite right... not completely off but skewed or warped just enough to bring on a "wait-wut?" feeling in the corner of your mind. ^^This haz been bugging me. But never was there an article with enough biblical theme interwoven into it, along with actual citation references, to really explore that nagging thought of "OK, WTF bible were they using anyway?!?!" Until this one came along where the spiritual history feature is on "Angels" and ohhh lawdy iz the arse of their propaganda machine hanging waaaay out, panties down and waiting to be smacked hard in this regard: ^^The First oddity (aside from all the usual psychology = religion weirdness that I already pointed in the sci mag thread when first leaked) that you'll notice is there is no Jacob's Ladder in it, but I guess they liked the imagery. Second oddity that jumped right out and smacked me in the face like leftover cold fish in the fridge that is stanking up yer kitchen on a Saturday morning in Lent, is the first passage mentioned & cited happens to be one I know well from Psalms and the phrase "court of heaven" the article quotes is not only way-out-in-left-field odd, but extremely rare. So rare, it pointed me down a revealing path that shows lots of LULZ & facepalms at their co-opting of scripture where the bible version used for all the various quotes in the article has been specifically chosen to add dramatic effect to the spin doctoring being done. So I commenced to dig, explore and build a documentation trail to prove ^^This. It's still a work-in-progress since I havent (yet) fully counted the total number of variations in bible versions used in the article. But here's what I got so far for additional eyes to look at. Advance! Magazine Issue No. 70 - Angels: Bible Passage Comparative Review Notes on my findings/work so far: Do plox read the coverpage draft synopsis for explanation of what I'm doing in that PDF. But ignore the page numbers in the Table of Contents, they haven't been setup properly yet for generating a merged document from 3 different sauce files. Bible Passage Citations, No. 1-2 :: The rare turn of phrase for "court of heaven" checks out to be specifically taken from the greatest bucket of fail translations & even greater historical embarrassment ever printed by Cambridge Uni Press - The New English Bible (NEB) as shown by the yellow highlighted bits starting on pg3 in my googledocs PDF. No other publicly distributed bible ever used that phrase except for NEB. (Thus i went hmmmmmm - all these quotes must be craptastic NEB cites. But NO, that is not the case either.) Bible Passage Citations, No. 3-4 :: Doesn't include actual quoted text in the mag article, so no easy way to back-check and validate what was used on these cites. And although the context of the passages mentioned is stretched abit - its still accurate at a cursory level. Bible Passage Citations, No. 5-6 :: Here's another extremely odd turn of phrase from a line in Isaiah 14 that's a prime example of "something not quite right here" feeling i get from nearly all the Advance! mags with a Christian theme surrounding a bible story. Except this one is NOT derived from the notoriously craptastic NEB version. HALP wanted: which version of the bible uses the specific wording in the first highlighted bit on pg27 of the above googledoc link- "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer . . ." ??? Bible Passage Citations, No. 7 :: Same non-starter deal as No. 3-4 above due to lack of a specific quoted phrase. Bible Passage Citations, No. 8 ::Another odd turn of phrase that is NOT coming from the NEB version used earlier on in the article. HALP wanted: which version of the bible uses the specific wording highlighted on pg40 "for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father" in Matthew 18:10 ??? Curiouser and Curiouser. Except ^^This time, its in a biblical sense And I readily admit Google might be my friend on the two red flag halp wanted spots in the above notes. But this is the first I've regurgitated & written up my findings in any form after discovering the NEB version usage was not the holy grail source of ALL scilon bible mentions that i first suspected it was. So I haven't gotten that far yet, and only had time to get this bit of propaganda research to the point where I know where NEB was NOT used.
Isaiah 14:12 reference for "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer" found! An oh the shame... if I would of chk'd my own preferred version (KJV) rather than being so focused on the widely accepted popular ones, I'd of knocked this question out right away http://scripturetext.com/isaiah/14-12.htm Nonetheless, I now got solid confirmation at least 2 completely different versions of the bible were used for harvesting the quotes used in the 1981 coverstory on Angels. Crafty culties are crafty.
Oh looky here.... a gift from Alanzo, on Geir's blog! Thought Experiment series: Evaluation of Scientology
Ends up, I had already identified Matthew 18:10 reference on the "for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father" mag quote where the turns of phrase "for i tell you" AND "behold the face of" is kinda unique amongst the classic bible texts of the 1970's-80's. ^^The scilon magazine wording does match both the popular ESV & NJB modern texts as shown on pg43 of my comparative review googledoc. (And those versions derive-from/parallel the NIV version that would of been contemporary w/ magazine publication date.) But here's the twist, at first glance that specific wording does NOT match the NEB & KJV versions (used earlier in the Angels coverstory + shown on pg41 & below), nor match with other popular versions of that era sans NIV: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 18:10&version=KJV;NASB;NIV;NKJV triple chk'd here: http://www.biblestudytools.com/matthew/18-10-compare.html So going bak to the Isaiah 14:12 reference identified above as KJV, dbl checking the NIV version and low & behold it also appears to use the more common wording "O morning star" rather than "O Lucifer" quoted in the magazine. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah 14:12&version=NIV Which seemingly means: I may have 3 confirmed versions of the bible being used to pull quotes for the Angels coverstory. Howev, now I need to crosschk publication years and reconfirm a few of the above cites in KJV & NIV texts guaranteed to be prior to the 1981 magazine date. EDIT: with closer scrutiny applied on publication years and more chking: http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/ http://www.bibleprotector.com/ http://www.just1word.com/bible/versions/revised-standard-version_rsv We do indeed have 3 different bible versions used for quotes in the mag article: NEB, KJV & RSV. My my, my - all bases covered. yes they did.
Updated dox for fans of this project who follow along from afar... Advance! Magazine Issue No. 70 - Angels: Bible Passage Comparative Review ^^Now includes revised findings summary on coverpage synopsis & endnotes on the last page. Plus all the stuff in the middle refactored for relevance on proving three different bibles were used in the related mag article. Scientology Religiosity? Materials Index Today's change log comment:
^^This Leak found & fetched from 2010 leaks & legal subforum thread: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7VDXR09X But I still got this nigglin but important question I haven't had time/success with chasing up yet...
The '66 version is a bust, 1st edition didnt include Scientology refs: The '91 version hasn't showed up yet. Lazy used booksellers are slow after Christmas rolls over ^^waiting2see if the Scientology subject matter is noted as "new" in the '91 edition.
Could you please scan in pages 124-130 and link to them in a review on Google Books to show them that their scanned version is wrong?
Some interesting stuff on Scientology from a philosophy standpoint found here (hattip TD) John August - Comments on "The Way to happiness" by L. Ron Hubbard Australian Humanist, The
New Year's progress report for my fellow christfags anxiously waiting for me to get the hardcore christianity-related stuff rolled out so they can fire off their harpoonage: Sorry guise, once again I am FAIL at meeting my own deadlines :/ The major gathering & compilation effort for Volumes 3, 4 & 5 is done (and has been for some time). Plus digital pre-press files are setup & generated for 3 & 4. But there is a minor delay with plugging a gaping hole in Vol III where I hit the Christianity stuff the hardest. I got several "Meh - boring" articles from Advance Magazine spiritual history of man series pulled for the 3rd publication. Too much knights in shining armor & crusades editorial faggotry, not enough meat on the bone offensive cult faggotry. So I've been working around that gaping hole & chipping away at later unfinished bits in the series while I wait on one of my little birdie sekrit leak sauces to get me 2 additional Advance mags (Catholic saints & the Inquisition - fun stuff!) that nobody else has a copy of. My hope is to get ahold of those issues soonly so I can possibly swap out some of the boring stuff already pulled for better excerpts that rank higher in the OMG WTF department. Meanwhile, I've made mention in the past that i had a short mailing list of preacher-type peeps from various Christian faiths who either expressed an interest in getting hard copies of the series, or fwd'd me another name/addy of someone i dont know personally who wants hardcopies. Or in 1 case - a blind target who was quoted in a Harlem news piece i added just for grins & to make an even number on the list (now up 12). I sent a holiday greeting & status update note last week to those contacts I know personally & have email or social network channel of communication with. I Let 'em all know the latest links to see online previews. Also that I hadn't yet shipped the first two volumes as promised cuz Vol II ended up being two publications instead of one, and that the first 3 hardcopies would hopefully be coming their way via snail mail in January. Most of the recipients have now written back, all with positive remarks & encouraging words to take my time / do it right / they look great so far. Most peeps were also already checking my scribd profile feed and knew what was up from the change log comments so it was all good anyway. In addition, two folks I contacted have grown a bit enchanted with Chanology and asked for info on local protest spots. I passed it along, Chicago & DC - your name has been taken in vain Note - I don't think those contacts are interested in participating in a protest in anyway... seemed like they just wanted to see one, chat up the protesters - ask questions and get flyers, etc. Whether or not this will actually happen, I don't know. If it does, I wouldn't expect it until spring and when weather warms up. However, Chifags & DCanon - you're here by forewarned. Someone (possibly) wearing a collar and/or claiming to be from a local church & sent your way that seems intent on wasting your time with lots of random questions... plz be nice to the preacher man. he means well. and is just trying to understand why we keep doing what we do.
Sorry for the extra-dose of fail with fail topping on top, but I have been lurking WWP instead of reading Advance! am sorries. will get back to you soon
No worries, the stuff your looking into is after the already late -late stuff. so's all good for good while yet cuz you responded to a /r/ posted way ahead of actually-needed time.
Studentfags with good library access, Imma looking for another classic Wallis paper again that I can't seem to find. Wallis, Roy. 1975. “Societal Reaction to Scientology: A Study in the Sociology of Deviant Religion.” In Sectarianism. Ed. Roy Wallis. London: Peter Own: 86-116. Lots of other classic works quote ^^This. And while trawling thru those works I found some other stuff of interest to this project: Alternative therapy, Dianetics, and Scientology by Terra Manca Marburg Journal of Religion: Volume 15 (2010) http://www.uni-marburg.de/fb03/ivk/mjr/pdfs/2010/articles/manca_2010.pdf Cults and Communities: The Community Interfaces of Three Marginal Religious Movements by Charles L. Harper Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion Vol. 21, No. 1 (Mar., 1982), pp. 26-38 (article consists of 13 pages) Published by: Blackwell Publishing on behalf of Society for the Scientific Study of Religion Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/1385567 ^^On that last one, I'm firstly curious to know if scilons is one the "three marginal religious movements" & if so, jstor copy plz? TIA!
Unification Church, The Assembly, and [this post was edited due to a copyright complaint by the Church of Scientology]
