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Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    The fundemental difference as I see it can be pointed out simply by your very example of trying to compare other religions such as Christianity.

    When people talk about Christianity they are talking about interpretations of Jesus Christ by his followers. If we try to look at the figurehead or prohet (Jesus) as a being and what he espoused (without all the basterdized interpretation by the religious organizations built around it over the centuries or even his apostles interpretations of his teachings, just direct reporting) we see a loving person who seemingly who wanted peace, love, and equality for all.

    Compare that to scientology and l ron hubbard who not only claimed to be the prophet but wrote his own teachings so that there could be NO misinterpretation and you have the root of the evil in his scam disguised as a religion (and only out of necessity it was called a religion because the scientific community rejected his BS research that he would not allow peer review of). It is not possible to truly reform scientology without destroying it.

    TL/DR: To reform Christainity is to reinterpret it's prophet Jesus because he only gave simple rules verbally (God's message) and it was an organization built long after he was dead that created the mess, so reform is possible. To try to reform scientology is to directly move away from Hubbard's written orders and therefore would no longer be scientology!

    You can reform a religion's organization but not it's prophet. With Christ the is no need to, with Hubbard it would be imperative!
  2. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    You make fine points, but you certainly can reform, or revise a prophet.

    There are many non-canonical pieces to the Christ story. Some left out from the "canon" because they were too controversial, the timing was wrong, who knows. In particular the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (not to be confused with the other non-canonical Gospel of Thomas) that portrayed Jesus as a childhood bully, running around doing miracles, killing kids who bumped into him, etc. There are no less than a dozen such "gospels" that some religions accept, the majority may not, or whatever.

    In the end, what was accepted as "true" and what was apocryphal was decided by a vote of a bunch of funny men wearing dresses.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    That may be true but that was because Jesus couldn't be pinned down for what he espoused because others wrote it down for posterity. He is a hazy figure at best. Easily left open to interpretation.

    Hubbard not only wrote down but also taped and filmed his drivel so that it could be followed by the world to the letter throughout eternity. The Co$ already tried the whitewash for hubbard and it didn't work. There was no way for it to because of progressively modernizing techniques for recording the past (not perfect but infinitely better than Jesus's time). Hubbard damned his creation from the start by using typical conman techniques to generate a scam that could only last so long because as with any scam the truth eventually comes out.

    If they tried to reform scientology and people are told the truth of who Hubbard was for not only his words but his actual actions I don't see how anyone sane would consider him a prophet and follow his "philosophy". That would be like going to visit Bernie Madoff in prison to give him all of your money to invest.

    In this instance the baby & the bath water can't be separated so both have to go!
  4. grebe Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Maybe it's not logically possible to reform Scientology.

    But ideologies in practice are more than shared beliefs. People may call their feeling of group identity "religion" or "Scientology," when in fact they're just a club that wants to stick together.

    So who knows what will happen with all those "free Scientologists." Hopefully they'll have a care for the wogs who don't fancy Hubbard and somehow we can all get along.
  5. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    LOL... I think we've both made our points quite well! I just have this overwhelming urge to think that any thread comparing LRH to Jesus just needs to end. And quick.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    You are probably right! LOL
  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Maybe you should outline the parts of the tech that is relevant and write of a practice based solely on your own expertise. For each component that your practice, consider the possible consequences for harm and benefit for a person. Doing this in an attempt to strip it of all the abuse. Things such as knowledge reports can go as they cause an environment of distrust amongst members. Get rid of the Sea Org as its only purpose is to enslave people and make them into sociopathic Scientologists. All Hubbard's policies on how to handle critics have to go. No more tone scale since it causes people to maintain an artificial outward happiness that makes people sound they are on acid 24/7. Bye bye word clearing, this just lead to never fully appreciating true literature that plays on words. If you only focus on the tiny details of all of Shakepear's works you would never grasp its context. Since English is an evolving language it's not possible to use exactly the right words with a limited brain. People have to develop relationships in order to understand each other and no one person is the same and is not always going to processes information the same way.

    I don't think I have ever come across an element of Scientology I thought could use a great deal of improving on or purging all together. Science today has move so far beyond Scientology, and I think that's partly why it is starting to crack apart now that we know way more about the brain and how it processes information today than Hubbard did some 60 years ago. The major thing that comes to mind is that there is not really anything people can do about memories accept let them go with the passages of time, and hypnosis and auditing does not remove any memories but plant's new ones. Some people come out of those sessions thinking they had past lives

    Remember being regged after sessions? A lot of these practices are done with already healthy people when they should be only be done on severe rare cases where people have serious phobias. Auditing has a lot of sublime elements to it like movie thrillers, and often people who see horror films can develop a fear of people who look a certain way like how a lot of film will portray people of a certain ethnicity as dangerous or even as terrorist. Through that theatrical process that idea that all Arabs are terrorists is plants in the mind. I have heard that CRT monitors that flicker at the right frequency can put people into a trance, this could also occur on the big screen. The cans, TRs, and other tech have very subduing effects on the mind and will leave people vulnerable to abuse, and it does not matter if this is done within an organized structure or not.
  8. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I am not an ex. At all. In any way. What you ask is far beyond my abilities or interest.
  9. RightOn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Curious, what do you think about the website
    Scientology vs Education?
    Scientology's Study Technology - Essay -- Dr. David Touretzky and Chris Owen

    There is also a section on
    WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT STUDY TECH

    one exerpt:
    "During the 1997 controversy over Study Tech in California, reporter Sara Catania interviewed several educators about the Study Tech books for an article that appeared in LA Weekly on November 12, 1997.

    Johanna Lemlech, a professor of education at USC specializing in curriculum and teaching, calls the books "awful." They "violate everything we know about how children learn, and appropriate pedagogy," she says. "In short, these books should be carefully placed in the cylindrical file." (Catania, 1997)

    Many Indies of couse have children or will be having more children.
    So... will all these kids be learning the Hubbard study tech way?
    If so.... do you think that is harmful to children?
  10. BlackPR Member

  11. RightOn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    ok,
    but you didn't answer my questions tho completely.
    I asked
    "Many Indies of couse have children or will be having more children.
    So... will all these kids be learning the Hubbard study tech way?
    If so.... do you think that is harmful to children? "
  12. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Yes... I have a child, four years old, going on five. I wouldn't let him within a million miles of that crap. I'm a hardcore radical atheist, and even further -- an anti-theist (see Colin McGinn on the BBC Documentary "The Atheism Tapes," to understand. Nobody has ever come closer to hitting precisely where I stand.) Perhaps that conflicts with my whole "tolerate and let them believe their stuff" thing... but in the end, I have to acknowledge reality.

    It is harmful. I think science wins. Science always wins.
  13. RightOn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    ok..
    so you do understand by saying that you stand behind Marty completely in what he is doing also includes what he does with Scientology tech?
    He may be auditing adults, but those adults will want their children taught the tech? Won't they want their kids schooled in the tech? I really don't know. I can only assume.

    But if you think it the tech is crap and dangerous for young minds, then why would you stand behind Marty and the teaching of Scientology?
    just curious.
  14. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Fair questions all. My issue with Scn was never that they were out corrupting young minds. There are plenty of forces out there doing that, who I don't need to name. However, the Texas Board Of Education strikes me as a far more immanent threat than Marty. What I want to see is a $cientology that can listen to critics and at least discuss the validity of the criticism -- rather than sending a fleet of PI's out to "handle" the dissent.

    It's simple, I can be pretty much "okay" with an group willing to partake in a dialog. I am seriously not okay with a group that spares no expense in crushing dissent. These are different things and I'm trying to acknowledge them. As a radical anti-theist, I wish people didn't raise their kids in a certain way... but I simply have to allow for it.
  15. RightOn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    yes, of course.
    but you are not going on (for instance) a Mormon blog and publically stating you stand behind them. That is my point.

    EDITED, please know.... I am not attacking you.
    I am just trying to understand ...
    if you think the tech is crap as you say and it is harmful why would you publically stand behind Marty then? That is my question, that's all
  16. RolandRB Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Has anyone done a shoop with Rathbun and Miscavige as in Total Recall with Miscavige coming out of Rathbun?
  17. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog


    I'm not sure I entirely agree with your summary. I think the tech has no scientific foundation, that it can be harmful. I think it's a bit like guns. They can kill the hell out of you, but I love them just the same. I dig people who support responsible ownership of them, etc. I am sure you're getting tired of hearing it, but I think the same thing about Christianity. It has no scientific foundation and can be harmful.

    We all pick our battles... The mormons deserve a lot of complaint, and I would have no shortage to share with them. I would support anyone who came out of that group and renounced many/most/all of the things I disagree with. I'd tell them, "Good for you! You go girl!".

    I'm really not trying to dance circles around your point. It's just this: If they mean what they say, then damn right I hope they cause a split in the church. If they end up being same-ole-thing, then I will stand up, say "well, damnit, I was wrong... but it looked good for awhile." They, like Christianity, will have a lot of issues to deal with regardless of how perfect their reformation is. But if they can end up with a system that at least hears dissent, then they may just be on their way.
  18. RightOn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    thanks for chatting ^
  19. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Lol, me too~ DOH!
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    With all due respect, you know squat and are espousing theories and concepts about a subject you have obviously not studied in depth. Mothers and fathers, sons and daughters, sisters and brothers, have turned against each other and shut the other off. Theories don't much help little 8 year olds, do they?

    People have willingly lied and cheated on financial forms, dove into bankruptcy, lied to their family, friends, associates, business partners to suck in money for their sci fix.

    People have "turned in" reports of any of the above for the slightest reason or even when there was none just to gain favor of sci ethics personnel, just to get in their good graces. Kids turning in their parents for an "unacceptable" comment.

    There are even people with cancer who will only go to sci approved medical sources, like chiropractors or DO's, and to their sci auditors, and, of course, die.
    Or people who are driven to insanity within the walls of "tech" and commit suicide. Or people who need professional help and instead diverted to dianetic and sci and die or whatever.

    If you're interested in the subject, then fine, but study and research it. When you brush it with some esoteric theoretical pixels, know there are thousands who have been seriously harmed by this mafia like cult with billions of $$ behind them to surpass all laws and justice and do what they will. Families have been torn apart, businesses have been busted, and individuals eaten up and torn down, as well as some have died. Not theory. Not esoteric. Real human beings and lives destroyed forever.

    It's one thing to study history. But this is still happening right now.
  21. Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Oxford dictionary definition of Marty:

    Insignificant attention whore, who lacks any real power and does not deserve much attention by anon. Should be encouraged to fuck the legal and religious power of CO$ at any point possible. Leader of CO$ ver. 2. which lacks the legal and religious stature of Scientology. Does not have the knowledge nor ability to re-create the most damaging aspects of the recognized cult. Goes on TV, print with allegations from someone who held a high position within cult. Is highly affective at creating entheta towards DM who currently controls the cult. Is Scientology public enemy #1 probably because he has information that could cause more serious injury to the PR of cult. Should be encouraged to proceed with his tirade in the spirit of lulz. In the ensuing chaos much reward will be had in picking off those that are scattered. Will increase his power base somewhat but as a whole Scientology will be very damaged unable to recover totally. Target 2 will be achieved, which if you stay on it, will give you clarity to look at the forrest and not get lost in the trees and waste your time on this insignificant attention whore troll who is just a tool.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I swear, reading this thread is like reading a thread about the Marines, Muslims and Motherhood written mostly by people who never shot a gun, never read the Koran and don't have a uterus or a vagina.

    In other words, most of you have only a vague, third-hand clue about what you're arguing about. But I guess that's OK, because you have such big feelings.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog


    You obviously don't know what you are talking about!
  24. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    What he/she said.

    More on this in Monday's blog entry.

    ML,
    Caliwog
    caliwog.wordpress.com
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    About to fall out of chair* Help I have fallen and I can't get up!

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