Customize

Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. thereckoning Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Ass kissing or coming to his senses. Maybe he finally realized something you have yet to.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    The way I see it is if Marty and Co produce the version of scientology they are touting then it will be mission accomplished- the current church of scientology will have been dismantled in its current form and replaced with something fairly benign; though I may still have issues with it getting charity status and tax breaks because I see it as more a self help community.

    I am however sceptical about whether this can be achieved so I figure wait and see on that score; if it turns out to be anything less than the care bear fluffy bunny scientology they seem to expound then I will protest other wise I won't; though I will probably still poke fun at them from time to time - DC8's in space, I mean...
  3. BLiP Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    First the "church" - then KSW.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog


    Thanks for posting that. Worth the read.
  5. theLastAnon Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    And that makes him less culpable for his criminal actions in what way?

    I don't doubt your motivations, but you just got played by Marty. Marty's taking heat for his bullshit "dox", the Daniel Montalvo (sp?) situation and his suggestion that Farrakhan is an okay guy....So, here we have a noted, vocal critic from the past saying, hey, Marty's "brand" of Scientology is better than the original and can co-exist peacefully with even the most rabid critics.

    You're unintentionally giving him cover that he wants and needs.
  6. BusinessBecky Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Exactly.
  7. an0nim0uz Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Go grab the cans and GTFO, will ya.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. grebe Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    O hai guys.

    Are the Scientologists still saying the psychs are evil?

    Everybody able to co-exist with that?

    If the psychs aren't evil, wtf is Scientology about? Doesn't some group need to play the part of planetary suppressive for the philosophy to make sense?

    Maybe we can use the Jews instead of the psychs in Scientology-the-sequel? They should be used to that role by now.

    /godwin
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    That's interesting. I find this to be an important disclosure that your letter came about following Marty's repeated polite encouragements [sounds correct?] that you write it.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I find this situation most interesting. Marty is using clam tech but he not supposed to be using clam tech because it's copyrighted. Didn't the clams go after the Freezone and try to shut them down? Don't they still go after them every chance they get? Then there's Marty openly professing to using clam tech and charging for it and the Clams don't do anything?

    I also thought the response to Panorama and other things Marty has done to be a little weak. Considering clamactions in the past and the position Marty used to hold. My spidey senses are tingling. I think the clams are not going after Marty with FULL barrels blazing is because they are afraid of him. Marty is exploiting this to be able to continue to use the clamtech unmolested. Oh they harass him, pizzas here, family shoutfests there, but nothing like they normally do to even the least of peons...ask Tory what the normal response to Marty's clamtrayal would be..they don't stop, ever.

    My guess is Marty's info on where the bodies are buried are what is keeping the clams at bay for the most part..as long as he keeps his mouth shut they KNOW he could talk so they don't harass him too much.

    What we have here folks is a standoff.

    BRB Popcorn.

    Will Marty eventually tell where the bodies are?
    Will the clams employ poke tech and one day Marty suddenly drops dead of a heart attack after being "accidentally" bumped/pricked while standing in a line somewhere for something?

    TFHs good :D
  11. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I approached Marty initially and suggested the idea myself. A bit later in response to a question I asked him, he asked whatever happened to my idea. Later on in response to ANOTHER question I sent Marty, he brought it up again. None of his "urgings" were sent to me out of the blue. A minor point, but we seem to want to make minor points into major conspiracies.

    I really have nothing to hide here, and there is no grand conspiracy. I don't like the tech, and said as much in my post. I don't like the bible either (ever read Leviticus? holy crap!). People want to see what I did as being some sort of grand conspiracy where I had to be "used" or I'm "kissing ass" or have somehow abandoned my principles. On the contrary, it was written precisely because I had not abandoned my principles.

    Scientology Inc. is a scourge. A truly destructive cult. Marty is at least *preaching* something very different. I sincerely hope he means it. I really, really do. But if it's BS... if it ends up being "meet your new leader, same as the old leader," I will be first in line to point it out.

    Like so many Christians who believe in inerrancy, and use the letters of a book to justify things that fly, seemingly, in the face of the whole Jeebus "peace, love and understanding" thing -- there come along those who have made a choice to reject those things... and I think that deserves support.
  12. xenubarb Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    When there's something positive about Scientology you'll let us know, right?
  13. Bipolart Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    same here
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I wasn't suggesting that there was any conspiracy. I trust you, but I don't trust that much Marty Rathbun so far, simply because he has not disclosed much given he was a top officer, and given that he still see criticism of Hubbard as "hate" (his "Redux" piece) and other things (he apparently tried to interfere in Australia,) and his many "mark my words", "I will connect the dot later", blah blah.

    It's just that there are details that I feel might become important down the road. Or not. A disclosure doesn't imply anything, he just provide extra details which might or might not be important to some in forming an opinion.

    Thanks for the further clarifications.
  15. lostinspace Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    A rose is a rose by any other name. Marty's brain is still trapped in the paper bag of cult indoctrination and he can't fight his way out even though he is free now to do so. The truth is out there somewhere, thanks to Anon. He's kinda like a rat trained to follow a maze to food. He really believes Scilon tenets will free himself and mankind by learning about dead alien spirits.

    The only serious value he possesses is being a threat to Corporate CO$. End of Story.

    He could if he chose do much more damage if he came clean and went to appropriate authorities and coughed up damaging information. (There has been speculation that the M & M's have already done so. There I have serious personal doubts.) It is my humble opinion by looking at his drek blog he positions himself as the Savior of CO$ and the real tech.

    Yes kinder and less expensive Scientology is okay? Well maybe, I don't happen to think so but Oh well. I just look at the comments he deletes from his board that asks him pertinent questions or asks questions about Scientology that doesn't put either him or LRH or into a real perspective or negative light Sorta smells like old school Scilon PR to me. And as the old adage goes if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck is probably is a duck. So there you have it, Marty is quackers.

    Scientology logic is very skewed and often conflicts itself. Marty is still there folks and that is where I place him. But if he and DM want to keep throwing rotten eggs at the other that is ok with me.

    For those that got out I suggest they do their own reading and make up their own minds. At least do this before making any serious decisions about returning to another brand of Xenu Tech. Real freedom is the intellectual freedom one can gain by being out ;) Which is my most humble opinion and personal experience.

    Lost ....
  16. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I understand your take on things. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I believe there's a real chance of a Lutheran style reformation. Does that mean that what comes out is all sunshine and daisies? Of course not, the Lutherans had their own problems and the process continued with further splits. Today we have flavors of Christianity that run the gamut from the downright scary and oppressive to ..... well... sunshine and daisies.

    Although I WISH everybody would live by the religion of science and radical non-theism, I can't have that wish. I can't have it when it comes to Christianity, and I can't have it when it comes to $cientology.

    The best we can do is watch closely and deliver smackdowns when smackdowns are deserved. But we shouldn't be afraid to give kudos when kudos are deserved.
  17. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Impossible. Read the tech, starting with KSW.

    ML,
    Caliwog
    caliwog.wordpress.com
  18. xenubarb Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    LOL maybe. But since it's Scientology and not Christianity we're talking about here, Marty should nail feces to DM's door.

    C'mon, it's all he's got!
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Would rather not.

    IMO it's as Senator Xenophon says, people should be free to believe what they like, just not free to do what they like.

    As to whether a hypothetical future Scientology-lite could exist and be free of the abusive practises, only time will tell.

    My impression of Marty is that he's wedded to practices (like use of the cans) which are fundamentally deceiptful though.

    - WT.
  20. grebe Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    BlackPR, because humans say stuff they don't actually put into practice, it is often possible to be friends with people with odd beliefs. You just hang out with them, enjoy their personality, and avoid topics that provoke arguments. It helps if they're able to invoke one of the standard loopholes like, "God's ways are not our ways," or "Religions are founded by humans and nobody's perfect" or "Who am I to judge?"

    I can imagine getting along fine with Marty, even sympathizing with him and wanting to support him.

    The sticking point for me would be the suppressive person doctrine. I'd need to hear Marty's loophole for that. Maybe something like, "The idea that some beings are suppressive makes a lot of sense to me. But there's no error free way to decide who is or is not a suppressive. So it's better to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and leave any disconnection or obliteration efforts to future lifetimes on, say, Target 2."
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I know that this wouldn't be KSW as per Hubbard. But do you know how many actual religious organizations are out there which act in direct contradiction to their basic texts?
    Many things that are called interpretation aren't interpretation but actual changes.

    Your argument refers to the texts of Scientology and in that context it is valid. My argument refers to the action of people and organizations who officially refer to these texts.

    There is a reason for KSW and Hubbard's insistence and the prohibition of verbal tech. IMHO it is to prevent any reforms. But that doesn't mean that it can never happen. That said, I don't see any indication for reform and I don't believe Marty intends any reform. Even if he did intend it he couldn't do it, because he doesn't really understand what's wrong with CoS and he's also outside of CoS. But if you allow opponents to have a say on your site it's a good start to move away from the suppression of dissent in his version of Scientology, to add democratic elements. Yes, it's inconsistent and yes, it's not actually Scientology anymore, but Scientology was inconsistent to begin with and there are many groups which are at a very different place now compared to where they were when they started and which are even in direct contradiction to their own basic texts.

    tl; dr Reform of Scientology is not impossible, it's just very unlikely and Marty probably won't be the one to do it. If it happened it would be in contradiction to KSW and to what Hubbard intended with the CoS.
  22. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    The way I see it, there's what I would like, and then there's what's likely to bring about the practical result of the destruction of Scientology in it's current form. Today, Marty's "independents" look to be the thing to get us there.
  23. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but their is little chance of that. Scientology is built on a base of deception and compliance techniques. You can't reform it without getting rid of much of Hubbard's writings. (The sole source.) If you attempt to reform it, it will re-congeal as the same (if not worse) corrupt mind-control pyramid-scheme. The main problem is that scientology as system is designed to create mentally complaint individuals that blindly follow a leader. Cut off the head and they will find a new head. Its pretty obvious to those of us on the outside.
  24. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    An interesting note, perhaps: Chatter on Marty's board suggests they're coming to the opinion that KSW was never meant to be applied to anything outside of Auditing and the related training. Meaning that, amongst other things, KSW-driven Black PR and Fair Game are being seen as out-of-bounds.

    They seem to be making a serious effort at reform.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    KSW, the tech- it's all texts. People are free to interpret them as they wish. people are also free to cherrypick which parts of LRH's writings to which they want to adhere. Once you understand that Scientology, like any religion, is whatever people make of it, you'll see that there's no way to know how Marty's little club will turn out.
  26. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I hold out hope that you are wrong.
  27. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Plenty. But Scientologists are generally fundamentalists. Hubbard made it very clear, in a way the Bible does not, that his words had to be followed TO THE LETTER to get the gains of Scientology. If Hubbard ran Christianity, we really would be stoning homosexual men and adulterers.

    That's a key point that you have to understand: Scientologists believe they are saving the world from destruction, and in order to do that they have to follow Hubbard's instructions EXACTLY.

    This is why I urge EVERY Scientology protester to read the tech. You don't have to read too many policies to see what an evil bastard Hubbard was -- and how DM is simply following in his footsteps.

    Luckily for Marty, the tech is large and intimidating, and his followers aren't familiar with all of it, which makes it easy for him to lie and blame LRH's crimes on DM.

    ML,
    Caliwog
    caliwog.wordpress.com
  28. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Based on what?

    CW
  29. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Cali, I meant to respond to your open letter in detail. Forgive me for not having done so as of yet.

    As I've pointed out previously, Christianity came from roots of Fundamentalist enerrancy. It started from a place where their tech could only be read by the priests, and interpreted to suit all sorts of nefarious and political ends. There was a reformation... and several sub-reformations from that point. You have a doctrine that some participants take 100% literally, and others (Episcopalian Bishop, John Shelby Spong as an example) who reject out of hand all descriptions of Miracles. They're working from the same text, but end up being wildly different groups.

    I know I might be wrong. I acknowledge that. I just hope I'm not. Such a sea change is not unprecedented in history.
  30. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Ray, take all the time you want, I'm very interested in what you have to say.

    I honestly would love to see you proven right. Honestly, I don't think the beliefs of Scientology are too much more far-fetched than those of Christianity, Islam, and other major religions. It's the way they carry things out, the willful harm that they cause, that are problems for me. Of course, one could argue that many religions cause such harm (and you won't hear any disagreement from me). But few have hard-coded the abuses, and the necessary of adherence to them, the way that Scientology has.

    I'm glad we're all having this conversation. Scientology encourages the hive mind. I love that the protest movement embraces different ideas. That's what makes us free!

    ML,
    Caliwog
    caliwog.wordpress.com
  31. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Um...no offense intended, but that isn't where Christianity came from... that is 1500 years later. You should learn more about early Christianity and how it developed. Early Christianity had many varying sects with a wide swath of beliefs. Unlike Scientology there was no single source, by a myriad of sources and traditions from which to choose.

    Scientology is locked in a 1950 pseudo-Scientific world. Hubbard is its sole source and practitioners will continue to use the hypnotism and compliance techniques developed during his lifetime leaving adherents easily open to control. This is how DM took control as L Ron left his body to clear other planets.
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    The Bible is pretty clear in many places that it is to be interpreted literally. Hell Leviticus is one big code of laws covering almost every aspect of one's life. There's no reason Scientology can't be changed around to whatever form people want it to be. The likelihood of that is questionable, but not the possibility.
  33. Marty Rugburn Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    The Catholics recently got rid of purgatory and limbo. Poof!!! Just like that.
  34. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I stand corrected on my history... what I wrote was a vast oversimplification of a very complex evolution. (I love using the word evolution when discussing Xtian history). Many religious texts were (later!) accepted or rejected as canon by a vote of the privileged. One particular individual (King James) may have been responsible for the creation of miracle stories where non previously existed.

    You are right, of course, most of the new testament is a retelling of the same story by various sources. Christianity did become what I described, however....a belief system where the content of the faith was controlled by very few men. Elites had religious privilege where the proles did not (indulgences and such).

    It comes down to this:

    Scientology cannot exist as a peaceful, open, "kind" religion if the text is followed 100% -- OR if the text continues to be interpreted in the same way it has been. If certain things are not renounced, re-organized, re-defined or ... something. It will be what it has been. I think there are lots of ex's who are willing to re-define, re-interpret, or even go so far as the heresy of rejection. The FreeZoners have been doing it for years. It IS possible.

    I keep seeing the argument being made that "if it's the same, it will be the same." Well.... yeah. I'm working from a fundamental HOPE that "if it's different, it can be different." Even in the history of Scn it has happened with the ragtag freezoners. I remember beating up on the freezoners from time to time and it never resulted in a PI parked outside my house.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Well good for you for your proud persecution of the heretics. you are a great human being.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    I see your point. It would just really be awesome if there was some kind of 'soft end game perspective' for the problems with CoS and the reform angle could be one such strategy. I'm really worried about how it will end otherwise. Maybe like it does now, slow demise, but there will come a point when the income falls below levels of sustainability and more and more lawsuits will be lost and then the system loses its stability. What is going to happen at that point? Do we want Scientologists to be filled with a war-like mentality of 'us against the world' at that point? Maybe that's off topic, but I feel it is related to the independent movement.
  37. BlackPR Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    C'mon... be serious. The same way you all beat on each other here, the same way everyone beat up on everyone on ARS (which was frequently as much critic vs. critic as anything else). I don' t think I ever persecuted freezoners, but if I ever did, they can come forward and I will answer for it here and now.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    ARS? The Anal-Retention Society?

    I hate those fuckers.
  39. Caliwog Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    Maybe, but I can 100% I guaran-damn-tee that Marty is not one of them. :)

    ML,
    Caliwog
    caliwog.wordpress.com
  40. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Scientology Kills - Ray Randolph - Marty's Blog

    So I take it you are still a practicing Scinetologist? Because I can not for the life of me figure out how the "texts" can be interpreted in any other way. Scientology cannot be mystical. It does not deal with the esoteric. It answers few questions and puts the blame of all human suffering onto somebody else.

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins