Russia's very own thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Nov 2, 2016.

  1. Aren't you full of joy?
    Ffs shut the fuck up with the whole world at war thing life is bad enough without you giving us more to worry over.

    Spread the joy of GTFO.
  2. The Internet Member

    I disagree. Our goal must be the survival of life's diversity and relative human peace everywhere on this planet for the sake of future generations. Those who oppose this goal live largely in the modern world. They can easily buy political leaders in less developed countries when it suits them.

    Poor despots are not much trouble. It's the ones who get discount weapons and lots of money from outsiders we have to worry about.

    Russia itself --the Russian people and their government system-- is not a worry for me. But the KGB-mafia running the Russian government and heavy industry there are a huge problem.

    The Russian intelligence network and allied mafia spans the globe. It's involved in financial crime in many countries. And, as the evolving Trump story shows, it can get its friends into top political posts in powerful countries. NATO cannot defend against this type of organized crime using tanks and airstrikes.

    In short, I believe it is a mistake to think reflexively of conflict in terms of nation states. Because the enemies we face work both sides of the borders.
  3. The Internet Member

    Why Would Trump Send Erik Prince To Secret Russian Meetings?

  4. Anon_CG3(ITA) Global Moderator

    on the base of my knowledges, many notices and news, and all is coming to us about Russia, Putin, is all filtered.
    Sometimes is built ad-hoc. Sometimes completely missed.

    At the base, you can't regreat the fact that information is not "100% clean or genuine". you know what "someone" decided to let you know.
    That is valid for you, for me and for anyone.
  5. The Internet Member

    It is important to corroborate info from more than one source. And some sources are more reliable than others.

    I think we would have better quality news if we insisted that people spreading lies were not allowed back onto news shows. Over time such consequences would make people double-check the facts before speaking on TV.
  6. The Internet Member

    Devin Nunes, the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, met with two White House aids who showed him classified dox. The dox were transcripts of conversations between Russians under surveillance. American names appeared in the transcripts unmasked, either because the Russians were talking to or about those Americans. The WH aids felt the dox proved Trump's claim that he was under surveillance. Nunes immediately had a couple press conferences to say, "OMG disturbing breach of Trump's privacy!"

    Recently the names of the two WH aids were released: Ezra Cohen-Watrick and another guy harder to google. I found something interesting on the blog of an investigative journalist:
  7. Anon1942 Member

    Putin be careful of what you ask for, you may get it. Trump (Little Hand Fuhrer) you got him. The money you took from the Russian people will not buy protection, remember last time.
  8. The Internet Member

    Kind of a tangent, but not really.

  9. The Internet Member

    Damn this is a juicy article. Lots of info about a powerful Jewish social network cultivated by Putin and some Jewish ex-KGB. It is based largely in Long Island and Moscow. The Trumps and the Kushners are intimately involved.

    Chabad of Port Washington, a Jewish community center on Long Island’s Manhasset Bay, sits in a squat brick edifice across from a Shell gas station and a strip mall. The center is an unexceptional building on an unexceptional street, save for one thing: Some of the shortest routes between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin run straight through it.

    Two decades ago, as the Russian president set about consolidating power on one side of the world, he embarked on a project to supplant his country’s existing Jewish civil society and replace it with a parallel structure loyal to him. On the other side of the world, the brash Manhattan developer was working to get a piece of the massive flows of capital that were fleeing the former Soviet Union in search of stable assets in the West, especially real estate, and seeking partners in New York with ties to the region.

    Their respective ambitions led the two men—along with Trump’s future son-in-law, Jared Kushner—to build a set of close, overlapping relationships in a small world that intersects on Chabad, an international Hasidic movement most people have never heard of.

    Starting in 1999, Putin enlisted two of his closest confidants, the oligarchs Lev Leviev and Roman Abramovich, who would go on to become Chabad’s biggest patrons worldwide, to create the Federation of Jewish Communities of Russia under the leadership of Chabad rabbi Berel Lazar, who would come to be known as “Putin’s rabbi.”

    A few years later, Trump would seek out Russian projects and capital by joining forces with a partnership called Bayrock-Sapir, led by Soviet emigres Tevfik Arif, Felix Sater and Tamir Sapir—who maintain close ties to Chabad. The company’s ventures would lead to multiple lawsuits alleging fraud and a criminal investigation of a condo project in Manhattan.

    Much more at the link.
  10. By the way: I have seen the actual painting with my own two eyes.

  11. DeathHamster Member

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  12. The Internet Member

    So interesting.
  13. DeathHamster Member

    Maybe BP or Shell will get the job?
  14. The Internet Member

    KGB mobsters ate BP and Shell for lunch. Not sure either wants to "partner" again.

    Exxon was one of the first organizations to seriously study global warming in the 70s. They figured out that drilling in the arctic would become practical if the Earth warmed a certain amount. No doubt Russia took this info to heart, as they have been one of the biggest sources of misinfo about global warming along with Exxon.

    The past couple of years it has become clear that the planet is warming much more quickly than previously predicted. The arctic may be ice free over the summer sometime in the 2040s. Perhaps Russia no longer needs to hand over trillions to Exxon for its specialized expertise.

    Sadly, the oil needs to stay in the ground if civilization is to survive.
  15. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    They are positioning themselves in the Antarctic too

  16. The Internet Member

    Lol, Lenin. Extraction corporations don't give a shit about Marx or Lenin or the proletariat. Control over resources and the power to maintain that control. That's all that matters.

    Thankfully old Sol gives us most of the energy that we need each day. We just have to develop the economies of scale and the infrastructure necessary to make a solar economy a reality. But the time to act is now.
  17. The Internet Member

    Russian journalist in hiding after death threats

    Interesting comment:
    Screen Shot 2017-04-28 at 1.34.25 PM.png
    Putin's hard line anti-gay stance suggests he has allied with Islamic fundamentalists.

    Elena Milashina, the journalist in this video, is a woman of remarkable courage. Stay safe, dearest Elena!
  18. The Internet Member

    Turns out other people smell something fishy about Renaissance Technologies. Maybe I am not completely stupid after all!
    Oops my bad:
  19. Gnome Chomsky Member

    BP holds a 19.5% stake in Rosneft anyway and has done for the last few years so that idea isn't too far fetched to begin with.
  20. The Internet Member

    Some bits from a long but interesting article about Trump's Russian mobsters.

    Trump, Russia and a Shadowy Business Partnership
    An insider describes the Bayrock Group, its links to the Trump family and its mysterious access to funds. It isn't pretty.
    By Timothy L. O'Brien
    June 21, 2017, 4:00 AM EDT

    ...a troubling history of Trump's dealings with Russians exists outside of Russia: in a dormant real-estate development firm, the Bayrock Group, which once operated just two floors beneath the president's own office in Trump Tower.

    Bayrock partnered with the future president and his two eldest children, Donald Jr. and Ivanka, on a series of real-estate deals between 2002 and about 2011, the most prominent being the troubled Trump Soho hotel and condominium in Manhattan.

    During the years that Bayrock and Trump did deals together, the company was also a bridge between murky European funding and a number of projects in the U.S. to which the president once lent his name in exchange for handsome fees. Icelandic banks that dealt with Bayrock, for example, were easy marks for money launderers and foreign influence, according to interviews with government investigators, legislators, and others in Reykjavik, Brussels, Paris and London. Trump testified under oath in a 2007 deposition that Bayrock brought Russian investors to his Trump Tower office to discuss deals in Moscow, and said he was pondering investing there.

    ...Sater "was always hustling and scheming, and his contacts in Russia were the same kind of contacts he had in the United States," Lauria wrote in a 2003 memoir, "The Scorpion and the Frog." "The difference was that in Russia his crooked contacts were links between Russian organized crime, the Russian military, the KGB, and operatives who played both ways, or sometimes three ways."

    Sater, who had been charged with racketeering and money laundering by the U.S. attorney's office in Brooklyn in connection with the 40 Wall Street scam, eventually decided to return to America and face those charges. He had a card to play, however: his knowledge, gleaned from contacts in Russia, about a small stock of Stinger antiaircraft missiles loose on the black market in Afghanistan that were of interest to U.S. intelligence officials.

    About a year after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Sater joined Bayrock, a company that marketed itself as a property developer and had opened Manhattan offices on the 24th floor of a well-known building at 725 Fifth Avenue: Trump Tower.

    ...A marketing document Bayrock once circulated to prospective investors noted that Alexander Mashkevich, an oligarch born in the former Soviet Union, was one of Bayrock's primary sources of funding. Mashkevich's firm, the Eurasian Natural Resources Corporation, was based in Kazakhstan and elsewhere and had interests in chromium, aluminum, coal, construction, and banking. (A person close to Mashkevich, who requested anonymity because of the Kriss-Bayrock litigation, said Mashkevich never invested in Bayrock.)

    ...When the Bayrock team met Trump in 2002, the future president was enduring a long stretch in the financial wilderness, having narrowly escaped personal bankruptcy in the early 1990s.

    He eventually emerged from that mess as a pariah among big banks. He was also a determined survivor and tireless self-promoter and he parlayed those skills into recreating himself as a branding machine and golf course developer in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

    ...“Trump was trying to build his brand and Bayrock was trying to market it,” Kriss recalls. “It wasn’t clear who needed each other more. This was before the show, remember.”

    The “show,” of course, was “The Apprentice.” It aired for the first time on Jan. 8, 2004, and became a sensation that vaulted Trump into reality TV stardom. In the real world, Trump's casinos were faltering. But on reality TV, Trump posed as a successful leader and dealmaker who embodied a certain kind of entrepreneurial flair and over-the-top billionairedom — an impression that stuck with tens of millions of TV viewers.

    The popularity of "The Apprentice" also gave the Bayrock-Trump partnership added zing.

    “That put Bayrock in a great position once the show debuted,” Kriss says. “The show did it for Trump, man. Nobody was interested in licensing his name before that.”

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  21. The Internet Member

    The Time I Got Recruited to Collude with the Russians
    Matt Tait
    Friday, June 30, 2017, 10:50 PM
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  22. The Internet Member

    A lot of stuff to digest in this Twitter thread. People calling out others as fronting for the FSB. Surprises.
    CounterIntelligence Unit Countering Russian Propaganda / Active Measures / Information Warfare. We Support #NATO & Share Data with Western Intelligence Agencies
    Joined November 2015

    Twitter is not my thing. Reading a person's twitter feed is like hearing half a conversation and I don't like to work that hard. But I did scan the KremlinTrolls feed and I think I get what he is saying: some of the journalistic opposition to Russia and to Trump is "controlled opposition" guided by the FSB. KremlinTrolls and his buddies try to out these sketchy opposition voices using dox. That way other journalists will know to be wary of these sources.

    But, predictably, the people who get outed by KremlinTrolls as FSB shills or useful idiots get cranky. They say, "No, U!" Reading these conversations can make you feel like you are in a hall of mirrors where everyone could be on either side.

    The Russians seem to be better at the double-agent game than the US. I think that is okay because my guess is, Russian spy handlers are scary mofos. Scaring the crap out of people under your control is likely the secret sauce that keeps people from turning to the other team.
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  23. DeathHamster Member
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  24. The Internet Member

    Surprise surprise! The alt right are Kremlin useful idiots.

    Russia’s army of media influencers, social media bots and trolls has increasingly amplified alt-right and far-right narratives in the United States since the 2016 presidential election.

    Russia’s efforts to push propaganda and disinformation, experts say, are nothing new and extend beyond the U.S. to nations in Europe. But they have seemed to evolve in recent months, increasingly infiltrating and engaging with alt-right and far-right Americans online.

    Moscow’s aim is widely viewed as exploiting divides and sowing distrust of democratic institutions, the latter a conclusion reached by the U.S. intelligence community in its initial investigation of Russia’s interference in the presidential election, including overt efforts to push propaganda.

    “Promoting content that is divisive – that is the ultimate goal here,” said Lee Foster, manager of information operations analysis at FireEye iSIGHT Intelligence.

    “It’s the same in Europe, but the specific themes change,” Foster said. “There, one of the most prominent themes is migration and the refugee crisis.”

    In some cases, it is pro-Russia personalities, trolls or automated accounts magnifying right-wing messages.
    The latest example is the recent flood of negative coverage of President Trump’s national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, which originated on right-wing media outlets like Breitbart News and has been picked up by prominent conservative personalities, including Sean Hannity.

    The campaign, coined #FireMcMaster, was also picked up by automated Twitter accounts—commonly known as “bots”—that are linked to Russia, according to Hamilton 68, a new dashboard developed to monitor fake news. Separately, researchers at the Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab identified Lee Stranahan, a host on Russian state-run outlet Sputnik, as one of the most prominent voices behind the anti-McMaster campaign.

    “The long view of the Russian active measures program is chaos and disunity among the American government,” Clint Watts, a former FBI agent and cybersecurity expert who developed the Hamilton 68 dashboard, told NPR earlier this month.

    “The reason the #FireMcMaster topic is so potent is it's one of the key themes that you consistently will see the Russians push,” Watts said. “One is anti-EU. They want to see the EU break up. The other one is anti-NATO. And they want to see the U.S. back away from both of those alliances. McMaster's very much about staying engaged in those alliances, which is different from other people in the White House.”

    In other cases, pro-Russian personalities and accounts will push narratives to their targeted audience, attempting to get American influencers to pick up a certain storyline.

    Such was the case during 2016 presidential election campaign, noted Foster, when accounts tweeted content copied from the WikiLeaks dumps of Democratic officials’ emails.

    “Up through the election, it was heavily anti-Clinton and steadily increased in the promotion of pro-Trump material,” Foster said. “It moved into this pro-Trump realm.” He noted that while these accounts continue to push anti-Democratic messaging, the balance has shifted toward pro-right-wing messages.

    A more recent example is laid out by Atlantic Council researchers Donara Barojan and Ben Nimmo.

    According to their August 18 analysis, far-right and nationalist activists in the U.S. picked up a narrative pushed by Kremlin-backed media that the 2014 revolution in Ukraine was driven by neo-Nazis.

    The narrative, which Moscow has advanced to justify its annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, again picked up steam as Russian figures began comparing the white nationalist rallies in Charlottesville, Va., to the uprising in Ukraine. Those pushing the narrative eventually used it to attack Republican figures, notably Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), accusing him of hypocrisy for denouncing white supremacist protesters in Charlottesville but supporting Ukrainian protesters.

    “[It’s] this kind of unholy alliance between the Kremlin-funded media and the alt-right activists and influencers,” Barojan said in an interview.

    More at the link above.
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  25. The Internet Member

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  26. The Internet Member

    I'm just making a note of something Putin said when interviewed by Oliver Stone:
    Russia has hospitals, universities, theaters, computer programmers, musicians, etc., just like the US. Americans have business interests in Russia and vice-versa. Nobody talks about wanting to destroy Russia. The worries here center on Putin, the oligarchs working with him, and the organized crime network that sometimes serves his interests.

    On the other hand, Russian propaganda implies the world would be better off if the US collapsed. So I think Putin is projecting. I think he's the one who would like to end his speeches with, "Delenda est Carthago."
  27. Disambiguation Global Moderator
    This goes piece by piece into how the Senior Trump officials were caught and then unmasked, trying to arrange back channel communications between Russia and Trump's government. The crown prince of the UAE came to town without notifying the State Department
    -usual for traveling high ranking officials. The NSA picked up conversations.
    It was Bannon, Jared and Flynn t the meeting. Maybe this was "Obama tapped my wires"?
  28. Mr. Petrov died May 19th 2017 (became public only now). This man probably prevented the destruction of mankind. RIP, Sir.
  29. The Internet Member

    So yeah, I was right.
  30. 38 fake news creator who inundated Facebook with pro trump conspiracy theories is dead at 38. When he was uncovered post election he said he wasn't political, that he did it for the revenue from "clicks". Funny he dies now during the investigation
  31. Putin is ex KGB nuff said

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