Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by Jeff Jacobsen, May 19, 2014.
That would be lulzy. ^^^
I'm repeating myself, but how were the speakers selected?
Lets bring in the big guns for next years conference. Mile Rinder, Marty Rathbun and Tory Magoo.
More suggestions, Andreas Hedal-Lund and Karen de la Carriere
Um, TerapinEd, think you need to lurk moar on this one. I think you forgot you were on WWP.
Unless that was a joke, in which case it was funny.
It's weird how Anons tell Scientologists that they protest because they care about them. The minute those Scientologists leave the church and become exes , it seems like Anons have nothing but disdain and distrust for them. Do they really care? Is it because they have been burned by OSA? Maybe my observations are wrong as I am just an outsider following the drama and anxiously waiting to see the Church of Scientology fall.
I think you have generalised about "Anons". In my experience, most protesters do care. I have seen a few with a broad disdain for both scilons and exes, but those have been in a minority. While protesting, or on this forum, you have no obligation to be their friend. You only need to tolerate them. And that is more than the cult does for anyone who disagrees with them.
stfu and get back to ESMB
I have no problem with exes, I count many exes among my friends. Exes can make fine chanologists and it can enrich us all. But c'mon, if you ARE an Anon and have been around here a little while, you have GOT to see the humor in that particular list on this particular forum.
If you are a newbie or not even an anon, I will just tell you that it isn't about exes in general. Knowing the history here, I found TerapinEd's selection funny. Haha funny, not suspicious funny. Those are some of the LEAST likely people to come to any event planned here, whether we invited them or not.
I doubt that the beginning of Chanology was inspired by "caring about" Scientologists. Some people were certainly shocked by the cult's abuses and disgusted by the way Lisa McPherson and Paulette Cooper (for examples) were treated by the cult.
I recall lots of Chanologists asking for advice and information from exes at ESMB previous to the first raids. Protesters wanted to be informed about how scientology tampered with politicians, controlled information, suppressed free speech and abused their own member's human rights, etc.
Trust issues/disdain do exist toward "exes" who leave the cult and continue to indoctrinate themselves with the same old cult Kool-Aid. My take: they are simply scientologists who would like to see different leadership. They only look for support to get rid of DM, blame DM for LRH policies and most will not tolerate our SP enturbulation / criticism of LRH or his evil ways. They would likely be back with their "church" in a heartbeat under a new leader.
I've seen a lot of genuine, kind support for many exes, here and at Enturb. OTOH, some exes who insisted on respect and special privileges simply because they left the "church" and are famous in their own minds have met some often lulzy resistance to their acting out, both here and at Enturb.
Drama happens, but it gets old fast.
I agree with what you said and would like to add that in my case it depends on the ex. Rinder and Rathbun can kiss my ass. I don't
feel they've done nearly enough to atone for their upper level sins. Other exes I like. I love me some pooks. Exes who still drink
the Kool Aid can be sad or annoying or both. I think some exes drink the kool aid out of the fear of what will happen if they
don't. I don't trust the indies because Scientology.
What about lea Remmeni?
Haven't heard of that person but I admire Leah Remini for reporting Shelly Miscavige missing. ;P
Also love me some Denise Brennan. Auntie Katie Bornstein.
Sorry I'm on my phone and I did not notice the auto correct did before I posted!! brat!!!
Being a smart ass is what I do.
First off, I don't know jack about WWP.
I'm glad WWP is in the battle to bring down scientology.
The bottom line though, everything done here outside of flagdown is small potatoes.
What has WWP done to bring down scientology, post here and have some protests.
BFG. Its small potatoes.
I protest, believe me, I know how little it effects the cult. You might plant a few seeds of doubt , you may not be planting a single seed of doubt. Who knows? I'm small potatoes.
WWP is a small gnat that bothers scientology.
Its the Internet that is crushing scientology, that's the difference these days. If a sea orger came up to me and wanted to do internet research on scientology because they are thinking of blowing, I would never send them here, I would send them to Operation Clambake and the Underground Bunker.
Who are the people on the planet that Davey hates the most.
Marty Rathbun due to the lawsuit filed by Mo and the possible deposition of Davey. That scare Davey.
Mike Rinder, did you see the pictures of Daveys compound that he and Tony O posted. Mike still knows people in and releases internal communications in scientology. You know Davey is furious over this.
Tony Ortega, the daily hand grenade he lobs at scientology.
Andreas, I would bet big bucks more scinos have blown reading his site then WWP.
The Lawyers filing Narconon lawsuits.
Outside of flagdown, whats done here is small potatoes. With all that is going on, you think Davey really cares about this site and anonymous, of course not. He's got way bigger problems then to take a swipe at a gnat that is WWP.
I'm serious, I mean cmon, whats wrong with inviting Rinder or Rathbun,
I attended Flagdown, I listened to Geir Isene in person, he said he would do scientology all over again. He said it helped him. To me that shows that the organizers wanted a variety of opinions.
I think its important to have all viewpoints at a conference, even Geir's. Why not Marty or Mike?
I've watched past WWP protests in Clearwater from a distance, I would simply shrug my shoulders, Its much ado about not much. Flagdown got me psyched because for the 1st time, WWP was really doing something to put it on the map fighting scientology. I even joined the protest even though I knew what I was participating was small potatoes. The videos will live on and that's the most important accomplishment of flagdown. All the protests and posting here, small potatoes.
You should have stopped here^^^
The solution to the lack of jack you know about WWP is very simple. Lurk more.
Why lurk, the insults flying back and forth on this board get real old real fast. Mildly entertaining but eventually boring
Why lurk, so I will conform to the views here. That's absurd.
I have my own views and opinions. Don't like them, dislike me. Most of my early posts here are disliked and hidden, I'm ok with that.
It has nothing to do with you learning the culture or being like one of us. You're a pain in the ass so you already conform to
WWP standards. I was merely suggesting you read more about the history of Chanology. The anti Scientology movement is a complicated
beast. Chanology is but one of the heads of the beast. To say that we are a gnat is a misstatement based on your admitted lack
of knowledge therefore I suggest you lurk more.
What you say is true for some Anons
But not all
Mostly it comes, when it does, from frustration.
Black and white perspectives do not understand the nuances of or journeys through the multitudinous shades of grey
Ever seen how you judge all Anons in the same way you are castigating all Anons and WWP?
And forget how that distrust has been earned?
Personally, as an Anon and member of WWP I do try to remember and understand those nuances.
The operative word being try
We can only see the spectrum according to our limitations
Are you wrong in your opinion/perspective
No. Not as far as it goes
Are you 100% right in your perspective?
Yes, as far as it goes
It just doesn't cover a very wide perspective
Ok, maybe I went a little too far with the gnat comment. You are right, we are all important. You never know when , say a friend or somebody at work, or even a stranger, comes up to you and is excited about just reading dianetics. , you can educate that person and save somebody from years of slavery.
Yea, the small potatoes was troll like. I'll take this tact instead, I've been in the anti-scientology movement over 10 years, protested twice and posted a lot. I am small potatoes.
As for speakers. We have to deal with reality. There are aspects of scientology that really resonate with some people. I work in a complicated job and sometimes my go to person at work on the real complicated stuff was a great guy that took some scientology courses. He was not a scientologist, just a guy that took some courses and moved on. He said it helped him. I believe him. He did refuse to even discuss the negatives of scientology. I brought it up, he dismissed it. This a reality out there. Really smart people , smarter then me, say scientology helped them and they have moved on. Geir reminded me of that friend at work that has since retired. This is reality. Maybe we should examine this phenomenon. I don't believe in a black and white world, its shades of grey. Scientology, a very dark grey, but maybe not black.
There is no one in Anon that is a small or big potato.. We all belong in the Stew known as the AntiScientology movement. I am a realist. I know that Scientology is nothing but an Evil Cult. There is nothing absolutely nothing I can say good about it. If someone says that the Tech worked for them it is because what worked could have been gotten through therapy or talking to a friend or medication.
You take one bite of that poison apple and it destroys. To say that any part of Scn is or was good is to validate Hubbard. I see nothing but death, brainwashing, disconnection and evil in Scn. Nothing..and I mean Nothing of good represents any part of this poison. For me it IS BLACK. A festering oozing black cesspool of human suffering and pain.
Do I think the M and M show could ever atone for all their sins?
I don't think they could even admit them all!
Even all the ones that are obvious
I do however acknowledge the strides and changes Mike has made. I can at least read his blog. And see the changes
Marty? Well, let's just say he isn't my cup of tea
But then neither was $cientology
Even pooks can sometimes get my grrr meter running.
Just as can any "authority" figure
I judge indies the same way as I judge wogs.
This is exactly why the phenomenon of some aspects of scientology resonating with some people should be studied. Wouldn't it be neat if say a similar speaker like Geir spoke at the next conference. Have the next speaker be somebody that has studied this phenomenon and explain how somebody similar to Geir got fooled.
Ok , pretty hardcore against Hubbard. I get that. I kind of have a bit different perspective. I have actually been aware of Hubbard for most of my life due to being a huge science fiction fan as a youngster. Foundation, Foundation and Empire, 2nd Foundation, greatest books written. The giants in my life were Asimov, Heinlein, Arthur C Clarke. I was simply aware of Hubbard due to science fiction, never read his stuff, he was a hack.
Boy if Asimov started a religion, sign me up.
Hubbard, he was a clown in the field of science fiction. My thought, what crazy people are following this clown, his stuff sucks.
Wasn't till I moved to Tampa 11 years ago that I took a close look at scientology.
Anyway, I would still like to hear what Rinder or Rathbun would say at a conference. Here would be a chance to ask them hard questions. I think I pissed off John Sweeny with my question
Your posts as a whole clearly demonstrate you have no idea about WWP
(Check out the other threads he has posted in for any doubters.)
Your expertise ....
And I am not known for being OSA OSA OSA.
Much more so for saying you are a stupid cunt (even when the stupid cunts were too stupid to realise they were being called out as stupid cunts)
But you T'ed
I gotta admit I haven't quite decided on yet
Are you one of the best OSA I have yet detected?
Are you a brain dead wog?
Keep on posting pls
The more data you provide (not only what you say but how you say it, whether your posts and statements show consistency and credible consistency (not the same thing), and actual evidence of critical thinking not rhetorical thinking/feeling) the better!
You, Sir, are a fool either way!
I've been aware of WWP since it started. Kind of followed from a distance. Watched videos of protests, didn't come here till Flagdown.
I already admitted my post was a little over the top and addressed that in a following post.
OSA? ( I'm smiling) I actually heard a lot of whispers in Minereg hall asking John Sweeny a question he disliked. Were the whispers OSA? maybe.
Am I OSA (again I'm smiling) , hardly simply because I am not anonymous.
Underground bunker, picture of audience 1st day of conference, that's me front row right.
Stupid c***, cmon, watch that mouth.
brain dead wog, yea, I'll cop to that. Actually the more accurate term in Deadhead. Saw my boys over 100 times all over the country. Touring the country with the Grateful Dead, sigh, those were the days.
OSA (big smile) I'm not anonymous, was at the flagdown protest, no mask.
Is OSA sneaky enough to join a protest (smile)
I cant believe I've been tagged as OSA, this is too funny (now I am seriously laughing out loud) yea I can type LOL but I am really laughing hard in real life.
I didn't tag you as OSA. I tagged you as a lurk more.
Aware of does not equal understand
As for my calling you a cunt?
Why would I want to use as many words as "fucking nobraineridiot who can't even spot the discrepancies in what he says he believes (acts on is a whole nother matter <rolls eyes doesn't quite cut it > <spins eyed> ), etc etc etc"? when I can just type cunt?
Don't want me to call you a cunt? Then stop acting and posting like one! Or at least tell me what is the term you prefer
But please remember
THIS board is NOT about or for those whose idea of a great board is one whose best, most interesting, and most interactive thread is the one dealing with who should be banned!
If you have been aware of the abuses of the cult, the fight of the critics (not just WWP and/or chanology over the years, the methods of the cult to silence critics, the motivation of critics (in all their glory, including the notawaretheyarestilldrinkingthekoolaid critics), AND the benefits and limitations of protesting at Flag. ....
Then I do ask myself
How come you are such a cunt?
OSA (and one of the best by far), troll or brain dead?
Like I said
Ok.. You have been watching WWP from a distance since it started.. You watched videos..been to Ortega's and other anti sites.
" Is OSA sneaky enough to join a protest? " I don't get the smile. This is NOT fun and games. Hell to the Yes it is.. they are dangerous. They infiltrate. They Fair Game. They will do anything and yes they are sneaky enough to join a protest.
That is why one doesn't give his/ her real names, wear masks, follow guidelines, take different routes back to his/ her car.
John Sweeney wasn't the only one who was pissed at your stupid question. That is what OSA does.. Scientologists do. They compare other religions to Scn.
Would you like to repeat your question here loud and clear for all of us to read.
Why would you try to piss off Sweeney? He is one of us. We honor him as an important figure regarding bringing the cult down. That was just an OSA move. I'm NOT saying you are or are NOT OSA.. I'm just saying that many of your comments are dubious.
Ok, the smile was snarky. sorry. People are suspicious, I get that. I'm suspicious, I get that.
If this was billed as a anti-scientology rally, believe me, I would have never asked that question, but it was billed as a conference. John Sweeny was done, he asked for questions, so I asked. I'm an atheist, have a problem with all organized religion and the enormous cost. Yea Scientology costs a lot, but so just about all religions. I find just about all organized religion is greedy to a certain extent. I wasn't trying to piss off Sweeny, it was a conference. I asked a question that just came to me. I guess it was because scientology is really weird and different then other religions. In my view one thing its not different is greed, they are all greedy. Sweeny kept harping on the greed so the question simply popped into my mind. It was not a disrespectful question. I was a little taken aback when I heard all the whispers and to seemingly piss off Sweeny. Its a conference. The floor was open to questions. Maybe it was a stupid question. Hey, he asked for questions.
My opinions of Mike and Marty have gotten a lot better over the years. Especially Mike, whose blog is getting up there with Tony's in the number of daggers thrown at the $ci organization daily. And Karen is lovely, and doing harm to the organization on a daily basis, and helps/encourages people who might not have come out and spoken out do so.
HOWEVER. That list, I believe they are "celebrities" only within a certain circle, and they are people who speak out every day. We know their perspective. Maybe they could do a Q&A session, but they'd probably need to take questions like "were you involved in the fair game of my father who died, and what can you tell me about that?". Which is fine.
I'd love to see more new things done with FD, and hear some new stories. Hopefully some newly-outs could speak - maybe some people who leave this year, who are still in as of this writing. And maybe some more nationally known figures - Paulette Cooper, or Paul Haggis, that sort of folks.
I totally agree with this. There's no reason to bring somebody to Clearwater to have them repeat what's already online somewhere. A completely different perspective on just HOW to expose Scientology would also be nice. Like maybe somebody representing a successful protest movement against something similar, telling us how they were successful. The emphasis should not be on who is famous but on who can give the latest, best, most useful information to the public and the cause.
One wrong turn and they crucify me!
Ok. Shit people. I just wanted everyone to know that before they complained about all the clanging dishes.
Caring doesn’t come into it. LRH tech is going to be a “no wants” both inside and outside the CoS.
needz moar AGP
Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!