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Review and Critique of Flag Down 2014

Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by Jeff Jacobsen, May 19, 2014.

  1. rickybobby Member

    Brainstorming for next time:

    I think it should go back to Clearwater area, be it CW Beach or St. Pete. I like CW beach if the lodging is affordable enough. My reason? To support the locals in their struggle with Scientology co-opting their local government. Folks in LA aren't intimidated by Scn like the people in CW are. This conference MEANT something to this community, and to the locals who came out to hear the speakers.

    Six days is too long. A four day weekend would be plenty.... Three days of conference, one raid on the last day. Bus tour is a great idea and should be repeated. I will loan Xander my GPS.

    A venue at or near a concentration of hotels and restaurants so everyone can stay at the same geographical area. I would like to arrange one venue hotel, because security would be much easier to manage if no public property were involved, and we could work closely with the hotel itself to help make it a success. We may be able to impose on Mr. Emmons to help run interference for us with security. I think we should find room in the budget for a local pd or security person to run point for venue security and to address any concerns the venue may have. We need to be on this issue early and hard for the venue. We may even be able to find a place with an airport shuttle.... ah, a girl can dream, can't she?

    I liked the idea of having events in the early evening so locals could attend without taking off work. I would like to see a publicity campaign aimed toward getting more locals to come! It doesn't have to be all evening, but the keynote stuff should be. The secrecy of the times/places made it hard for some to even figure out where to go.... One lady read about it in the paper, but couldn't figure out how to find out where it was going to be, so she called the paper, called city hall, to no avail. I can't remember how she finally found out where it was, but she did. Not everyone reads WWP or ESMB! There are lots of retirees there with time on their hands who remember CW before it was invaded. These are the folks that would write letters to the editor and keep up with the City Council. Let's get them involved!

    I would like like to see panel discussions with plenty of time for questions and answers. Possible topics----

    * A panel for locals and newbies to help introduce them to the topic; Scientology 101. Stuff WE already know, but those just joining this conversation might not. The history of SCN (we could include some clips here of LRon, David Miscavige, the Tom Cruise vid, clips of some of the TRs, speak of Operation Snow White, why and how Dianetics morphed from being a "science of the mind" into a "religion," the tax exemption fight, the evolution of Indies and the state of Scn today in the world, how they are sneaky about recruiting these days), and have time for LOTS of questions and answers. This is actually beginning to sound like two different panels, but hey, this is brainstorming.

    *A panel on the history of the Sea Org and their abuses of children, focussing on current abuses. I would love to have some recent ex sea orgers talk about their experiences as an underage or college age teen in the Sea Org, or those that have worked with them. In this panel, we can cover how they are managing to rope kids into the sea org these days with their deceptive practices.

    *Why SCN is a CULT, not a RELIGION, and how fighting this cult is NOT undercutting religious freedom. I actually would like to focus on how Scientology is ABUSING, undercutting and making a mockery of a system mean to protect the separation of Church and State. Here we can also touch again on why ElRon CREATED a religion from whole cloth.

    *We also need a panel discussion or presentation on the other groups-- Narconon, ABLE, WISE, etc-- and how they fit into the picture. Also some tips on how to spot them in your local schools and businesses and fight them.

    I would also like to see a workshop on ACTIVISM 101. Once we have given out the knowledge and motivation, we want to empower the attendees to take ACTION, even if it is micro-action. Where they can go on the 'net to get more info and link up with others of like mind, who/how/when to 'poon, DOXING 101, protesting and how to get started in IRL activism like city council meetings, maybe start a bumper sticker or yard sign campaign, or, yes, standing outside with a sign.

    I would like to have goodie bags to give out. Perhaps a tee shirt, a bumper sticker, a XENU fridge magnet and some pens. Wouldn't it be hysterical to see a mysterious XENU (either the words or the iconic figure) bumper sticker start appearing on cars and signs throughout the town of CW? What a great way for locals to express their feelings! Maybe we can print up some bumper stickers and spend and afternoon giving them out away for free on the streetcorners. It should say nothing else, just XENU . I think the message would be loud and clear. Ha! This idea makes me laugh! FREE XENU BUMPERSTICKERS FOR EVERYONE! (And no, I am not drunk, just amusing myself with this mental exercise).

    And let's not forget the final event to cap off the speakers--- the DANCE CONTEST. To the music of El Ron, of course. This must involve alcohol and a disco ball. Actually, a party the last evening before the protest would be nice, at or close to the hotel so no driving is involved. Cash bar and KEY LIME PIE.

    /braindump
    • Like Like x 16
  2. rickybobby Member

    And I am going to ask the question here.... an elephant in the room (oh hai THE INTERNET)....

    Indies?

    Obviously, these topics will not be very "tech" friendly and most hardcore indies would probably not want to participate anyway, but they are also a prominent part of this movement. We need to hash this shit out now to avoid DRAMADRAMADRAMA down the road.....

    Here is a possible range of responses:

    1. Let it be widely known that if you are a believer in the tech, you will probably be in a hostile crowd if you attend

    2. Indies are welcome, but this is not the time nor place to discuss merits of the tech

    3. Invite prominent Indies to attend or perhaps speak. Public discussions and presentations will be moderated, so proselytizing of any kind won't be a concern, and what is spoken of amongst the attendees is their business

    4. Ignore tech. If they come, they come, if they don't they don't.

    Just how big is our tent, and what is the best way to address this issue?

    Hey! We could even have an Indie/Anon/Ex mixer!!! Let's party with the Indies--- give 'em a few shots of a good Tequila, and LET'S TALK TECH!

    <<<<<ducking just in case a shoe is thrown at me>>>>>
    • Like Like x 7
  3. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    It all depends on what the goal of the event is. If it's to expose the evils of the organization run by DM, then I would think everybody would get along ok. There could be some side informal gathering to discuss the elephant in the room - was Co$ ALWAYS evil?
    • Like Like x 3
  4. rickybobby Member

    I think that any planned side gathering like that may be outside the scope of this conference. Those kinds of discussions would occur spontaneously around dinner tables and at breakfast buffets. If people want to get group discussions together on their own, more power to them.

    The conference, as I see it, s/b confined to Scientology, Inc. and bringing it down. Understanding what the tech is about is essential to provide context and history, but it would be outside the scope of FD to engage in any discussion on the effectiveness or merits of said tech. You can't explain "the bridge" to folks and why and how people give away everything they have to this cult without explaining the tech itself and why it is addictive.

    I am a big tent girl myself and my nature is to be inclusive, but I do not want to shy away from addressing controversial topics and having difficult discussions when they are called for.
    • Like Like x 4
  5. At the risk of being shot down for being off-topic, wrong thread, OSAOSAOSA, and ad infinitum, I would like to point out something positive that is happening because of conferences like Flag Down.

    Ex-sea org Jillian has been making videos with Karen DeLaC and she has a new one up today. In it, she says because of all the publicity and spotlights on the RPF, that time spent in the RPF is significantly down. She knows people who spent 10 years on it. She says now they "graduate" out faster, and she attributes it to the critics exposing the RPF. So exposure through means like Flag Down of the abuses is being heard inside the bubble.
  6. Mr.TKN Member

    Just throwing this out there, my ideas for these questions:

    It will only be a hostile crowd if someone says out loud that the "tech" is good or LRH "was a smart man who made a workable technology".

    Like, I don't think it would be good to ostracize indies since many are just as passionate about bringing down Co$ as never-ins and all-the-way-out-exes...

    They need to know we aren't in the buisness of protesting against their right to *believe*, so long as they dont do stuff like disconnection, child auditing, financial scams, lying, taking people off needed meds, treating medical conditions with auditing, etc. But they've got to at least acknowledge or be willing to not argue when we say that this stuff comes from LRH and most of us don't see it as something that can be taken out of Scientology teachings.

    I personally would not want to hear an indie speak about how good the freezone is - I'd walk out or skip it. It's not part of bringing down Flag - it's offtopic to the conference (as I see the goal).

    But I still want to hear about being in the Sea Org, or working for OSA, or personal stories about disconnection, or the regging cycle, and stuff like that. They have hurt, sorrow, anger, and want to tear down the "church" just like we do.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Jeff Jacobsen Member

  8. fathertony Member

    Next year we should apply for st and sidewalk closures for our march!
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Django Member

    Also, including Indies speaks to the opinion stated by the majority of critics (myself included) that we're not anti-religion, we're not protesting anyone's right to believe in Body Thetans or cheap-ass lie-detectors or any of the rest of Hubbard's crock of shit.

    It should be made clear to any Indies, of course, that most of the attendees and speakers believe that Body Thetans and cheap-ass lie-detectors and the rest of Hubbard's "tech" is a crock of shit.

    But including Indies could negate any "anti-religious bigotry" charges hurled by the cult in the eyes of interested observers who aren't in either camp.
    • Like Like x 3
  10. fathertony Member

    I am all for people believing what they want as long as there beliefs dont infringe on the rights of others.
    • Like Like x 4
  11. snippy Member

    If they close off streets, I'm tempted to camp out with a camera to see exactly what construction they are pretending to do that merits sidewalk closure.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. fathertony Member

    Look at my video of our raid. They let public sci's walk on the sidewalk they had a buffer buffing the same spot the whole time we were out there. We had someone who had connections to the city counsel out with us. I asked her if she could make a proposal to the councel to have a public meeting on why they need the closures. That why it would give the public a chance to voice there concerns. It would also keep them from pulling a last min stunt.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. snippy Member

    It seems if you have a permit to protest in an area first, they should not be given a permit to close the sidewalks during that same time those sidewalks are going to be used for something else, unless they are the gas company and there is a dangerous leak. It boggles my mind that they were granted permission to do this. Can you imagine a business closing "their" sidewalks during the Mummers Parade?
    • Like Like x 1
  14. JustDee Member

    RickyBoby, I liked all your comments (some reason like button isn't working today) so I just wanted to add that you have some great ideas. I also love the street closure idea from fathertony.

    I just wanted to add something to the debate about who to include. This shouldn't be a WWP vs The Bunker vs No Mark vs Indies etc......
    This should be an everyone is included event. It's US against them (and when I say them, I mean that dreaded church that is ripping off the government (us!) and abusing human beings. That's the line, Everything else shouldn't be relevant. If you keep it focused on the event (heard great ideas on this thread and elsewhere) nothing else will matter.

    When you have a diverse bunch of people, everyone isn't going to love everyone. So what? Work together as a group to get things done that need to be done, professionally. After everything I've read, here and elsewhere, people should be able to work together.

    I don't really want to say much about this year, unfortunately I wasn't there. But I would love to go next year, without the drama. And help anyway I can.
    Dee
    • Like Like x 6
  15. Bobby McGee Member

    ..........

    Amen Dee! I couldn't agree more. And whoever is deemed the Organizers please be receptive to this idea. We all need to put our differences aside and remember our goal! It doesn't matter how long you have been involved in the crusade, or who has or who hasn't the power. We all have a voice so we all have power. We all have our own reasons for attending. Showing a united front is important especially during FD..

    All I kept thinking with all this freakin Drama was, " I bet OSA is lovin this. "
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Bobby McGee Member

    Oh absolutely agree Observation! I do not know how the numbers going could be estimated in advance unless you would have to register beforehand . Maybe with enough advance notice we could at least get a ballpark figure.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. fathertony Member

    Mabey if you register and pay a certain amount you can get a VIP package. Preferred seats during the event gift bag that kind of stuff.
  18. tigeratbay Member

    Post Pizza on the Beach was open and there were about 5 plus CW civic minded citizens attending and very interested.
    Did you know It was free? :D
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Here's my vague memory from one year, maybe 1998. Scientology had taken out event permits of some sort for Ft. Harrison Ave. We were stymied as to what to do, but then Rod noticed there was a time gap in their permit. So we had a mad scramble to get a permit ourselves for that in between time. We had to go to both the city AND the state, because Ft. Harrison Ave. is also a state highway. We got it and had a fun protest.

    There were hurdles like this every year that we had to figure a work-around for.
    • Like Like x 5
  20. fathertony Member

    Was it free this is the first I am hearing of this.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  21. Bobby McGee Member

    Yes..I had heard it was free also Father. I wouldn't lie to a Father.
  22. fathertony Member

    You better not lie thats out ethic!!
  23. RavenEyes Member

    I'm changing the superhero power I've wanted since I was a wee lass from the ability to fly to time travel, because I want to go back in time and summon up the enturb/wwp people of yesteryear.

    This place is the dumb. Holy shit.
    • Like Like x 3
  24. rickybobby Member

    Sorry. You stumbled in to the "everyone work together" thread. Would it make you feel more at home if I said

    Fuck you, FAGGORT!


    Yeah, that. And the horse you rode in on.
    • Like Like x 1
  25. RavenEyes Member

    Look closer. It's an alligator.
    • Like Like x 2
  26. snippy Member

    Better leave the alligator outta this.
    • Like Like x 1
  27. vaLLarrr Member

    The core message is surely that the fraud, abuse, cruelty and general disregard for victims of the cult of $cientology did not originate with the Dwarfenfuhrer Miscavige.

    It started with LRH, and his mobius loop of infinite bullshittery.

    If indies can't handle that fact, that's tough titty, but the message must NEVER be softened to avoid offence.

    LRH was a cunt, and he died a paranoid screaming drug addicted lunatic. Fuck him and fuck anyone who still thinks his shit made sense.
    • Like Like x 8
  28. Django Member

    BTW, where are the raid vids, I can't seem to turn 'em up anywhere....
  29. fathertony Member

    Ask and you will receive!!
    • Like Like x 1
  30. This is a review and idea forum an event happening 11 1/2 months from now, so any and all possibilities are being discussed. The conference idea is not like anything that has happened in Clearwater before 2013, so it's not going to be business as usual.

    The yester year people (I think you mean street protestors) were wonderful, and if they want to do that again, that would be great.
  31. Whoops, ^^^, 2014, need more coffee.
  32. rickybobby Member

    Agreed. No soft pedaling on LRH. This fact, in itself, will probably cause hardcore Indies/Fzoners to decide for themselves not to attend, even if we sent them an engraved invitiation. Fortunately, I have heard no one even come close to suggesting that we go easy on the J&D on the old man.
    • Like Like x 2
  33. rickybobby Member

    I think the discussion here is a little too civil here for Re's taste. No lulz here nor are any lulz being planned, just an unusually civil discussion about planning a regular conference that could have come from any board. She has a point, but this isn't the place to open that can o' worms.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. moxie Member

    A time comes when the stupid is impossible to ignore.
    Coincides with recent onslaught of patronizing, arrogant, self-congratulatory, humorless and annoying posts.
    • Like Like x 3
  35. rickybobby Member

    And I blame it all on the lack of an Anonymous posting button.
    • Like Like x 6
  36. moxie Member

    There is much truth in this.
    • Like Like x 1
  37. snippy Member

    Very fine braindump, rickybobby! Totally agree, except where noted. Adding comments/ modifications:
    • It should go back to Clearwater area, be it CW Beach or St. Pete Indian Rocks/Belleair, Largo.
    (affordable, Crabby Bills seafood, + not dealing with CW police or excessive tourist traffic.)

    Reason? -->To support the locals in their struggle with Scientology co-opting their local government. This conference MEANT something to this community and to the locals who came out to hear the speakers. <-- This!
    • Events in the early evening so locals could attend without taking off work. ... There are lots of retirees there with time on their hands who remember CW before it was invaded. These are the folks that would write letters to the editor and keep up with the City Council. Let's get them involved!
    They are also targeted! One lady I spoke with knew an 85 year old man she used to play golf with. One day he told her he would not be doing that anymore since he joined Scientology and they had him sell his (nice) condo and move into a (cheap?) apartment near Flag. Tell me they didn't take every last dime of his retirement and dump him. She never saw him again.
    • Panel discussions with plenty of time for questions and answers. Possible topics----
    * A panel for locals and newbies to help introduce them to the topic; Scientology 101. Stuff WE already know, but those just joining this conversation might not.
    Brief history of SCN (short presentation with clips on LRon, Miscavige, Cruise vid, TRs, Operation Snow White, why and how Dianetics morphed from being a "science of the mind" into a "religion," the tax exemption fight, evolution of Indies and the state of Scn today in the world, how they are sneaky about recruiting these days, and the tangible/intangible drain they are on our society's resources.
    *A panel on the history of the Sea Org and their abuses of children, focusing on current abuses.
    Have some recent ex sea orgers talk about their experiences as an underage or college age teen in the Sea Org, or those that have worked with them. In this panel, we can cover how they are managing to rope kids into the sea org these days with their deceptive practices.
    *Why SCN is a CULT, not a RELIGION, and how fighting this cult is NOT undercutting religious freedom... Focus on how Scientology is ABUSING, undercutting and making a mockery of a system meant to protect separation of Church and State.
    *Panel discussion or presentation on the front groups -- Narconon, ABLE, WISE, ... with tips on how to spot them in your community and fight them. Explain how Scientology's "social programs" do more harm than good. How they are based on bogus and dangerous science and destroy lives and families.
    • I would also like to see a workshop on ACTIVISM 101. Yes!
    And let's not forget the final event to cap off the speakers--- the DANCE CONTEST. Yes!
    To the music of El Ron, of course. Nope, no way, NO! Cash bar and KEY LIME PIE. Yes!

    /braindump w/addendum
    • Like Like x 3
  38. Horseradish Member

    Key lime pie is a great idea. And beer. Lots of beer.

    As are many of the others listed by rickybobby.

    Can I also vote for:
    - total clarity on dates, well well ahead, so people who have to travel internationally (and pay astronomical air fares) can make reasonable plans.
    - a session on all the recent/current court cases and legal battles. With an international angle too, perhaps. A panel?
    - a well-developed AV and comms plan.
    • Like Like x 7
  39. snippy Member

    In the spirit of brainstorming, this guy has the ultimate FlagDown 2015 set design, if there is a desire to preserve some of the spirit of tackiness. (kinda kidding here, but not really - LEDs have really come down in price.)

    led-2.png

    led-4.png

    led-3.png
  40. snippy Member

    I think this is very important. The pattern of abuses emerges very clearly when you look at their policies and actions internationally. The fraud cases and mysterious deaths in Europe speak volumes. Putting together a package on this would be well worth the effort, imo.
    • Like Like x 2

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