No. CoS would have to go before a living judge and show cause why a new injunction should be issued. Since no one in Clearwater has a random in-yer-face confrontational picket style like Bob Minton did, they'd have a hard time of that. Also, they'd have to target specific people, and those people could fight it. It's not like they haven't tried that. Judge denies petition by Scientologists to limit protest March 13, 2008, Robert Farley, St. Petersburg Times
Me invincible? Hardly. All I'm saying is, the injunction is a non-issue. Its dead. Still lots of things they can do to me outside of that. No question. New injunction? If they thought they could get one they would of filed long ago. Nothing to gain by waiting.
I understand how you could compare the two issues, but we are talking about an injunction that is already in place compared to one that was requested for an impossibly unidentifiable group. The LMT injunction was put in place for identified persons with the help and blessing of CW police. The game has changed drastically since that time. The people served with this injunction are easily identifiable and Xander is on video in Sea Org alley and crossing boundaries set by the LMT injunction. These are very similar circumstances, as opposed to the situation in 2008. Reworking the current injunction is a very likely outcome. More likely than you think.
You run with that Scooter. Keep thinking just that way and maybe the Easter Bunny will bring you some thing special too.
OK, what I'm about to say may not be entirely popular. But I'm saying it even if some here want to censor or dislike it. Because this is WWP and we should not have to worry about being politically correct, dammit! You've been lauded for your vids at Flag. Yes, I don't see anyone else doing them at Flag or really anywhere else anymore for that matter. But what really got to me - and hardly gets talked about - is that even when you're probably editing out all the stuff that makes the cult look good (I probably would too), you can STILL see that Flag is getting bigger. The one that seemed to reveal the most was your one from touring in the bus at Flag Down, showing all the huge and well-kept Flag properties. Other vids from that time showed never-ending busloads of staff. It was all sickening. Then one of your later 1-2 minutes vid at a Ft. Homicide event showed a whole bunch of people going in and out, like hundreds in just that short amount of time. What I've liked more are your vids of Chicago Org. You consistently show the delicious cracks and busted up state of affairs there. Now maybe there, something's getting done. But it's a different animal at Flag. You've seen more of Flag than most. Yet from what I've seen, you've gone quiet when asked questions about what you're really seeing. Like how many staff and public are actually there (you could easily see if it was a few hundred or a few thousand), the actual state of the buildings, how many new buildings, etc. In the meantime, some other Anon posters who were there reported that it was growing rather than shrinking. My point is that while I wish it were not so, the one place where it is pretty obvious protests have not really done much at all is at Flag. There were a consistent few hundred Anons there in 2008. Loud, noisy, lulzy. There were years of LMT protests by OG before that (we know what that got them). Constant, many hour, heavy traffic protesting by Shawn Lonsdale who ended up dead. Not to mention lots more Anon protests over a good 5-6 years. Hell, you've been going there for around that many years. I see you concentrating mostly on staff, a little bit on public. And I've seen all staff and public use either ignore tek or give you the "oh yeah, well fuck you too" glare in all the vids you've ever posted. I'm sure the sea ogres are using you to pump up the stats "to show up that evil SP standing outside". Well that's just awesome. And on the other hand, in all this time, has anyone ever called you up yet and said you helped them to leave? My guess is the answer is no. If it's one, then that's obviously great. But at what cost of them using you to boost their stats? Because the bottom line is that after all these years of protesting firepower at Flag and all the heavy bad press, the fucked up truth is that they've gotten bigger there. And that means your once every six months, few hour protests don't make any logical sense. Except for maybe this: the only way it does is if this is more about pumping your ego than about actually taking the cult down. AFAIK, we have too much of that kind of crap going on lately on WWP (and elsewhere too). Like I said, this may not be popular. But IMHO, that's what's going on.
Why do you think Scientology goes to such great lengths to stop protesters if they are not effective?
Amax doesn't have to. It's actually pretty simple. If she's deathly afraid of the injunction being applied to her she could simply protest where the injunction says it's allowed. Darth has shown the injunction doesn't apply. The city has agreed and said it doesn't apply. She could protest anywhere. The fact that she doesn't want to even protest in Ybor City shows she is more interested in playing victim that protesting.
You fascination with where she protests is duly noted. Also noted is how out of touch you are with chanology. You obviously don't understand things. Amax owes you no explanation, Gosh Mark, as referenced earlier itt, maybe you should stop and reflect.
Lulz. He keeps flaming her and doesn't get that its rude and that ed is gonna have an update due to him continually fucking with those still here. Lulz
She has a legitimate claim to being a victim of your uninvited presence at Flag Down. It seems like you're more interested in victim-blaming than in taking any responsibility whatsoever for your part in any of this, when you weren't even invited to the party in the first place.
Did you even bother to read what I wrote? Or are you a Rubio-like bot who is going to stick to your talking points no matter how inapplicable they are? As I said in the very post to which you are responding (with emphasis added because you are either unable or unwilling to read): You are missing, or more likely avoiding, the entire point. AmaX shouldn't have to. AmaX shouldn't have to "look at the injunction and find out exactly WHERE SHE IS ALLOWED TO PROTEST UNDER THE TERMS OF THE INJUNCTION" in order to be free from the risk of legal liability, incurring legal fees, and legal harassment. You are the reason AmaX has to "look at the injunction and find out exactly WHERE SHE IS ALLOWED TO PROTEST UNDER THE TERMS OF THE INJUNCTION" in order to be free from the risk of legal liability, incurring legal fees, and legal harassment. Your selfishness and your hubris are the reasons AmaX has to "look at the injunction and find out exactly WHERE SHE IS ALLOWED TO PROTEST UNDER THE TERMS OF THE INJUNCTION" in order to be free from the risk of legal liability, incurring legal fees, and legal harassment. No with respect, he hasn't. Such will be "shown" with respect to Amax if and only if: (a) the COS drags Darth into court; (b) the court determines that the injunction does not apply to him (or should be vacated, etc.); and (c) the material facts with respect to AmaX and Darth were the same. That the COS has not rushed to drag Darth, an attorney who has the education, experience (and apparently the time and money) necessary to defend himself into court does not mean the COS would not drag AmaX, a person without those resources, into court. Also, for all you know, the COS may still proceed against Darth. It is one thing for Darth to say, for himself, that the injunction is "dead." Particularly given that Darth is not an attorney licensed practice law in Florida (that is not an attack, simply a fact), I'm confident that Darth does not intend to give AmaX legal advice that she has absolutely no legal or financial risk - that she cannot possibly be dragged into court by the COS - if she protests within the areas covered by the injunction. No, the city didn't. The city determined that it is not enforceable by the police department absent a further court order or judgment. Further, the issue not what the "city" has determined. The issues are: (1) whether the Church of Scientology might use the injunction to drag AmaX into court, exposing her to having to incur legal fees, endure stress, and risk legal liability; and (2) what the court might do. AmaX made it clear that she didn't want to be served with the injunction, and you didn't give a shit. Because you know better than everyone else. Because you apparently have the right to determine for another person what legal risks that person should be willing to expose themselves to. The simple truth is that you exposed AmaX to potential legal monetary costs, harassment and liability against her will for no reason other than your own selfishness and hubris. Tell us, "Wise Beard Man," will you pay AmaX's legal fees if she is dragged into court for allegedly violating the injunction? Will you pay her fine? Oh wait, you would have to beg for money first.
Now, you're just being mean again. :0) I would never have to pay Amax's legal fees because clearly she is too frightened to protest. Of course, she could join Darth for Hubbard's birthday. Or protest in Ybor City. Scientology's injunction is meant to intimidate. I've seen it used against people in the LMT years who had never met anyone in the LMT. I saw the process servers at Flag Down at the lousy Minnreg location and at the nice hotel setting for the later days of the event. Amax is the only one I have seen who hasn't taken it as a badge of honor to be served the injunction and get a good laugh from it. It's okay. She's scared. That's fine. Scientology got its end product from her. I don't know what she did to get herself arrested last time but I would advise her not do that again and she'd be fine. I would be happy to do a fundraiser for her legal fees...but then I would be working in collusion with her and she would be added to the injunction. I know she wouldn't want that. Again, not really an option because she is too scared to even picket in Ybor City. I understand. It's a lot easier to cower in fear rather than practice her first amendment rights the way she so desperately pretends she wants to.
Yeah, in your brain farts. Revising the Penick injunction is as dead as the judge. CoS trying to unilaterally change it when the other side of the injunction, LMT, no longer exists would rather interesting and quite unique. Did you get your law degree from a stale Cracker Jack box?
The difference between Sparrow and AmaX on one hand and Xander on the other is that they don't have the time and resources to have legal letters written and spend the day in court. They'll have to pay for each little step, and take time off from their daily schedule (not to mention AmaX doesn't have the health for it). It's easier for Bunker (apparently not having a 9-5 job) and easier still for Xander who arguably does have the time, knowledge and resources to do just that. We all know the injunction is bollox, and that it will we very hard for arguing it's continued existence. Let's hope Xander can find a way to have his day in court.
Hey Bunker in honor of Lisa McPherson's birthday make yourself useful and run over to Gaslight Ally to see if Lisa's brick is still in place. Oh wait...
I thought you were a good guy and have ignored bitching about your e begging and when your documentary will come out but you lost me here. Amax protested on the ground and got arrested. You protest on the ground much? You laugh and say she is scared. She's been crowded by a group of scientologists and then arrested when she tried to get free. That happen to you? I'd be fucking scared to. You admit you limited her protesting sites right? That is your argument- she can still protest in the particular spots you are naming. We are a big part of your donor list, you know rite? The smirking and snide comments aren't helping you bro. You lost me.
Hey Mark I think you are now called mark begger. It is very fitting and well earned Lets talk about how ballsy you are: How was your fight to take lmt? How did the gofund me for that work out? Hey let us know when that first court date is would you! At the end of the day you are the cults little bitch. You let them tell you where to go and where to protest. As pointed out above you don't protest. When I saw you walk in the door at fd I went straight out the door. I know this is hard for you to understand, but some of us have real jobs that require background checks not the ability to say do you want fries with that or hey your strategy of employment being which gofundme to set up this month. I have no wish to have an injunction on me for multiple long and short term reasons. Also, some cities require approved permits to protest. Once again I don't need your shit following me. If you were devoted to ending the cult you would get this ! I will happily take on the cult when they come at me in a straight on legal fight. I don't need you mess of a history chasing around me and neither does any other protesters. If you were respectful of others battle against the cult you would take actions to make it easier on them and not complicate it. Now back to the doxing Over the last year it has been really cute to hear o that pete is too inept to have doxed, o that pete doesn't have that strength to dox, o that pete just does whatever "fill in the blank here" says. Some how these all became really weak excuses to let pete off the hook. Lets play the game of he is just a victim in all this and let too many see the names list, but didn't post himself. He would be no less guilty!!! Unlike Mark Begger the cults bitch Pets is just someone else's bitch. You have a group of exs that revel in outing people for their own fun and games. This also helps out the cult. FYI I have stood outside the cult with a sign saying one of you is one of us. It actually applies to irish fuck ups too. A lot of people are sort of tired of you and chatting all about it. Quick fo say something really bitchy on your fb pages about me ! go go go ! A lot of mighty protesters have been taken down over the years from a litigious cult. I have never and will never take scientology lightly. They have murdered, they have molested, they have raped, they have torn apart families. Sparrow was definitely a force to be reckon with. I miss him and several others we lost over the years
Easy there Satan, you wouldn't want to add fuel to the assault fire. Friendly mod advice absolutely free.
And as for Bunker continually calling AMA a coward, fuck him. For years she has been standing up to the cult right on their doorstep and without the benefit of anonymity. I don't know if I'd have the same steel balls to do so. She's been physically harassed, arrested and dragged through court on false accusations which would have caused most people to crack. Whatever shit you want to throw her way, cowardice sure as hell isn't part of it.
Casual reading to get you uptodate on what you and your friends need to know about the LMT injunction so we can help AmaX study. Transcript from trial http://lisatrust.freewinds.be/legal/LMTinjunction/index.htm Trippin balls here not finding fecking LMT maps for all of us to help AmaX study. Begger needs to do something constructive and post them. Leaving you with the immortal words of Sid Klien for inspriation and glory. Keeping the peace in Clearwater Re: Police work for Scientology, editorial, March 22. It's not Judge Thomas Penick, as you wrote, "who has the unenviable task of refereeing sidewalk skirmishes between the Church of Scientology and anti-Scientology protesters" in downtown Clearwater. That responsibility falls to the Clearwater Police Department. It's the police officers who must monitor and mitigate the constant confrontations between two groups -- fueled by hatred and distrust -- that seem incapable of tolerance and civility. This situation involves both public safety and fiscal responsibility. Without off-duty police officers standing by to act as schoolyard monitors for these two groups, we would have to continually send on-duty police officers to break up confrontations, to interview witnesses, to review videotape from scores of cameras (both visible and hidden), to write reports and to take whatever actions are necessary -- every day -- to quell these venomous, juvenile exchanges. I don't think the expense of our baby-sitting activities should impact the quality of life or the level of service to which Clearwater's residents are both entitled and accustomed. In this time of municipal fiscal blight, I think it's not only responsible, it's downright wise, to let the recalcitrant combatants themselves pick up the cost of the referees. That's my solution to cutting this Gordian Knot. Despite your disingenuous suggestion that the Clearwater Police Department "treat Scientology differently" from other churches or synagogues, I will not turn a blind eye to the fact the members of this organization are residents of Clearwater, and are guaranteed -- not just by the law, but by me -- the same treatment and protections afforded every other resident and visitor to this city. It may be easy to make a call on this issue from afar, whether you're a judge who has actually spoken with most of those involved, or an editorial writer who has yet to gather information firsthand. But for those of us with the responsibility to physically step between these combatants on a daily basis, ours is an exercise based in practice, not theory and high-mindedness. I appreciate your opinion -- though I don't endorse it -- for I took an oath 38 years ago to uphold your right to express such speculative musings. But you should know that the men and women of one of the finest law enforcement agencies in the world are not likely to have their honor sullied or their professionalism questioned because of a part-time job. To imply as much is pandering and insulting. While continuing to act as peacemaker -- and enforcing Judge Penick's complex court order -- I will carry on my work with both sides, searching for a viable solution acceptable to all. I fully intend to extricate the Clearwater Police Department from this untenable situation. But absent any Solomonic solution offered by the Times, I will continue to address this convoluted situation in a manner that has proved to be both effective and fiscally responsible. I'm confident our peacekeeping actions -- as distasteful as they may be to some people -- are clearly in the best interests of the residents of Clearwater. And I'm just as confident that our actions speak louder than your words, which have the hollow, distant ring of an ivory tower bell. -- Sid Klein, chief of police, Clearwater
Clearwater & Chicago protest in Ybor. https://whyweprotest.net/threads/cl...and-opening-of-tampa-orgs-new-location.77886/
Reformatted bc paragraphs hlp people. Casual reading to get you uptodate on what you and your friends need to know about the LMT injunction so we can help AmaX study. Transcript from trial http://lisatrust.freewinds.be/legal/LMTinjunction/index.htm Trippin balls here not finding fecking LMT maps for all of us to help AmaX study. Begger needs to do something constructive and post them. Leaving you with the immortal words of Sid Klien for inspriation and glory. Keeping the peace in Clearwater Re: Police work for Scientology, editorial, March 22. It's not Judge Thomas Penick, as you wrote, "who has the unenviable task of refereeing sidewalk skirmishes between the Church of Scientology and anti-Scientology protesters" in downtown Clearwater. That responsibility falls to the Clearwater Police Department. It's the police officers who must monitor and mitigate the constant confrontations between two groups -- fueled by hatred and distrust -- that seem incapable of tolerance and civility. This situation involves both public safety and fiscal responsibility. Without off-duty police officers standing by to act as schoolyard monitors for these two groups, we would have to continually send on-duty police officers to break up confrontations, to interview witnesses, to review videotape from scores of cameras (both visible and hidden), to write reports and to take whatever actions are necessary -- every day -- to quell these venomous, juvenile exchanges. I don't think the expense of our baby-sitting activities should impact the quality of life or the level of service to which Clearwater's residents are both entitled and accustomed. In this time of municipal fiscal blight, I think it's not only responsible, it's downright wise, to let the recalcitrant combatants themselves pick up the cost of the referees. That's my solution to cutting this Gordian Knot. Despite your disingenuous suggestion that the Clearwater Police Department "treat Scientology differently" from other churches or synagogues, I will not turn a blind eye to the fact the members of this organization are residents of Clearwater, and are guaranteed -- not just by the law, but by me -- the same treatment and protections afforded every other resident and visitor to this city. It may be easy to make a call on this issue from afar, whether you're a judge who has actually spoken with most of those involved, or an editorial writer who has yet to gather information firsthand. But for those of us with the responsibility to physically step between these combatants on a daily basis, ours is an exercise based in practice, not theory and high-mindedness. I appreciate your opinion -- though I don't endorse it -- for I took an oath 38 years ago to uphold your right to express such speculative musings. But you should know that the men and women of one of the finest law enforcement agencies in the world are not likely to have their honor sullied or their professionalism questioned because of a part-time job. To imply as much is pandering and insulting. While continuing to act as peacemaker -- and enforcing Judge Penick's complex court order -- I will carry on my work with both sides, searching for a viable solution acceptable to all . I fully intend to extricate the Clearwater Police Department from this untenable situation. But absent any Solomonic solution offered by the Times, I will continue to address this convoluted situation in a manner that has proved to be both effective and fiscally responsible. I'm confident our peacekeeping actions -- as distasteful as they may be to some people -- are clearly in the best interests of the residents of Clearwater. And I'm just as confident that our actions speak louder than your words, which have the hollow, distant ring of an ivory tower bell . -- Sid Klein, chief of police, Clearwater
https://whyweprotest.net/threads/cl...stgame-lrh-101st-birfday.100896/#post-2074753 motherfuc------ and another fucking thing... you talk about the LMT like they were perfect gods. we spent four fucking years trying to work with the CPD and the attorney for the CPD to make it where we don't have to continue marching in the fucking heat of downtown clearwater. why did we have to keep marching downtown? because the law was re-written because of how fucking disruptive the LMT assholes could be. there are still fucking white lines drawn on watterson st. where LMT individuals could not cross. we go across those lines all the time---on both sides of the street.amaX, Mar 11, 2012
Thank you for writing this AmaX You damn bitch, you made me log in again to reply (health still isn't good enough but I couldn't just lurk as I thought) One thing that hasn't come up re the fucking trolls and likes of bunker et al AmaX is NOT YOUR PERSONAL ARMY Remember that phrase? She sure as fuck isn't your personal cannon fodder to be deployed as you wish while you stay safe All the mighty keyboard warriors trying to discredit her ... Fuck you When I see you all spending your own time, efforts and freedom to go break the injunction and protest with Mark (how the mighty have fallen) Bunker and make CoS/the courts/police put up or shut up then I will applaud you When I see you putting up your money to pay for her legal defence I will applaud you When MARK BUNKER fights the injunction in court and WINS I will applaud him When I see Bunker actually break the injunction and prove the validity of his words on any aspect of the injunction .... So a scilon held his hand out to Mark to shake his hand - did Mark make any attempt to take that proffered hand? No sir he did not. Why not? Because that was too personally dangerous. He knows there would be a court case And Co$ would have to enforce the injunction if it were broken - because, as I understand it, not doing so would make any impartial court declare it null and void if they don't - just like copyright infringements which is why big corps do follow up on the little cases. The night Mark got evicted from Flag Down he wasted no time getting in touch with Tony O (who doesn't like AmaX) and crying foul. He also lied on the Underground bunker about what had gone down between him, his lawyer and the police and what the outcome was. When I called him out on it there he did the same kind of pissy deflection he is trying here. Half truths, non sequiturs, outright lies and distraction away from the specific points. But funny enough later statements by him proved he was lying. And Xander, I love you man, but what you did to AmaX was shitty. And still is. She isn't your personal army either! I loved that you got a small victory. You haven't won the war. 10 years ago now chanology took on Co$. So many great and small victories have been gained, and yet Co$ is so bloody but not yet defeated. You may be a lawyer but much as I love you and admire what you have done over the years, you aren't anywhere near the level of Ray Jeffries et al. Don't get too cocky about this. And I do wonder why you weren't immediately and constantly out there in Co$'s face after your victory? I hope it is because you are regrouping and coming up with a spectacular FU to Co$ (hopefully with Bunker, Pete, John and the trolls) for LRH's birthday. I don't want any details - no need to tip them off any more than you have. And I truly hope it goes well And ffs learn that it is NOT "would of" but "would have" or "would've". That alone makes me question the standard of your education. It doesn't take much to learn and remember that tiny but vital piece of grammar. How the fuck JohnnyRUClear hasn't beaten that into your skull by now I don't know. And yeah, can someone explain to me how the fuck certain people are supporting themselves financially? One day AmaX I shall provide the caek and yup you are paying for the booze
The debate about Flag Down could go on for years without much productive time spent. It's kind of like running engrams in a dianetics session, you go over it again and again and it leads nowhere. I want to address some of those who have posted here (not the osabot noise). I am an ex-scientologist . I do not gossip about people, presume I know their motives and thoughts (who are the folks who really think they can do that?), do not associate with anyone who considers themself a scientologist, even under another name, and I know for a fact that a mentally ill L. Ron Hubbard planned the whole thing as a money-making scam. I don't appreciate being stereotyped and consequently, discriminated against, as has happened a number of times to me. Since I left the cult, I have indulged in educating myself both formally and informally in how "WOGs" do things and why. There's such a thing as an organizing committee, where the members air ideas about how things could be done. Those ideas that get consensus become how things should be done. A functional committee does not need a dictator or a hierarchy (who are the follks who believe that they do?). Moving forward rather than ruminating on the past, Anons who want to have a convention should create a committee to deal with all issues beforehand and ensure that no one "leader fags", resulting in conflct, blame and shame dumping. When something unexpected comes up, they caucus to reach a consensus. This is "WOG tech". It works and helps people.
The hive here (all inclusive committee) seems to be in agreement in it's evaluation of the topic at hand. If one looks at the Flag Injunction thread (search that) there also seems to be a consensus. I enjoy the process. It's critical thinking over days with snippets of information to consider.
Correction: Over days to consider Over days/months/years to consider. Or, if you will, the big picture.
Those who posted in this thread do not constitute a committee and the lengthy discussion after the fact did not resolve the controversy. No consensus exists, only continuing arguments.
It probably leads nowhere because a certain gentleman with a very large ego refuses to acknowledge any responsibility or the possibility of reproach for his dubious actions. Why don't you just call AMA a leaderfag directly, like you want to? Too chicken? Need your bearded bear to back you up? Aren't you guilty of being a leaderfag by telling us all how we should plan and run events in the future, instead of letting each individual event's organizers develop their own system, organically, and case-by-case as the circumstances might vary?
Except a certain gentleman with a very large ego fabricated a scam therapy with zero scientific validity and refused to acknowledge any responsibility or the possibility of reproach for his dubious actions. Why did L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. leave the cult and expose his corrupt father? Why did Quentin Hubbard leave the organization and commit suicide? Why is Diana the only Hubbard child involved with the scientology criminal enterprise? You seem to believe that you can read minds, a common scientology delusion. I think AMA has been injured enough by the scientology crime syndicate. Typical scientology procedure is to continue to insult and injure a victim. "Of course, ruin them utterly if you can." L. Ron Hubbard Flunk. You need to go to word clearing and look for your misunderstood word, then restudy the materials. Suggestion does not exist in any of Hubbard's dictionaries, but Fair Game does.
