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Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Kha Khan, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. Kha Khan Member

    Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    From Moving On Up a Little Higher - Mike Rinder:
    WWP Thread: Rathbun Talks About Mike Rinder

    My comments:

    I see this as yet another effort to blame everything on DM, and absolve the COS and, more specifically, everyone who subsequently left the Church. The defense is always -- "It wasn't my (or Rinder's) idea, it was DM's idea." "I (or Rinder) didn't agree." "I (or Rinder) objected."

    In the end, the defense is, "I (or Rinder) was just following orders." Sound familiar?

    Well, I don't buy it. These people were adults. They followed the orders because they chose to do so.

    Also, notice that the objection to the use of PIs and heavy handed tactics against, for example, the participants of ARS is not based on the tactics being unethical or morally wrong in and of themselves, but on the ground that they were counter-productive -- i.e., that they caused more problems than they solved. Had Rathbun's and Rinder's cost-benefit (to the COS) analysis of the tactics been different, it appears neither Rathbun nor Rinder would have objected.

    I've seen this before on ESMB. I call it retroactive moral virginity. As soon as somebody leaves the COS and becomes a "critic" (or at least a Freezoner, or now even an "Independent" Scientologist) they are absolved (or at least absolve themselves) of all guilt, shame and moral responsibility for their actions. (As many on ESMB share such guilt, they also naturally share the tendency to absolve each other.)

    For tactical and strategic reasons, I'm not sure I entirely object. The FBI uses informants for a reason. And when one's primary goal is to defeat Nazi Germany, one makes an alliance with the Soviet Union. One deals with the Soviet Union, if necessary, after the Nazi's are defeated. I get it. The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my "friend," but he may be my expedient (perhaps temporary) ally.

    But the moral questions remain.
  2. mrfyde Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    To read that post of Marty's you would think the only thing he ever did wrong was beat Mike on those two occasions. Maybe that is his Moral Virginity showing as KK put it.

    I guess I don't expect Marty to apologize for his pact actions in every post but coming clean about the things he did in the cult would be nice to let his love-bombing club see who they are really dealing with. And it is one of the only things that will help people trust him. Even Swaggert had to apologize in his "I have SINNED !" speech.

    JS.jpg
    [STRIKE]

    But it is interesting to note the use of PI's in the cases with $100M fines from the IRS.

    That could mean that they had at least two infractions of the IRS settlement. (each infraction would be a fine of $50M as it is worded in the settlement.)[/STRIKE]

    OR

    It could be another Carrot on a stick to try to get OG critics to play along.

    Edit: the 100M was for lawsuits, the IRS jeopordy did not have dollar amount mentioned.
  3. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    The only good scientologist is an ex-scientologist, both Rathbun and Rinder are still very much in.

    I also note the complete lack of "Hubbard" in this blame-game/circle-jerk. It's not like DM actually wrote all those abusive policies that Rathbun and Rinder enforced.
  4. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    This appears to be an increasing trend -- even on WWP. Increasing wrath and criticism and derision directed toward DM, but perhaps less directed at the written policies and LRH culture that made DM possible.
  5. EyeOnSci Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    ^^^QFT^^^

    EyeOnSci
  6. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Maybe because of the high number of newfags (such as myself), and DM is the leader atm, we target him and not LRH as much. The easiest target to hit is the one you can see. Not saying we shouldn't tear LRH's corpse a new asshole at every opportunity, it's just that targeting him and his doctrines is gonna stop people from joining the cult. Targeting DM and his unlawful/unethical practices is gonna take this mother fucker down for good.
  7. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That might be because this is a site for activism. Hubbard is dead. We can't get him indicted. We can get DM indicted. It's a reflection of being targeted. A loose shotgun approach is less effective.
  8. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Tl;dr version of my post?
  9. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Hehe. Just saw your post now. Snap! :)
  10. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    XP
  11. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That makes much more sense, IMO. Hand justice to those who can still serve for it, to help those who need help now and not for ones that are too late to get it.

    If that makes ANY sense at all.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    You know what I got from MR's rant ?

    The OG enturbulated the hell out of DM and crew LOL
  13. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Pity DM cremated the [strike]evidence[/strike] body and polluted the Pacific ocean with Hubbard's remains. That means that I can't piss on Hubbards grave.

    I'll have to settle for pissing in an ocean of piss.

    brb, /B/
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I'd like to see a three stooges episode staring Slappy Miscavige, Scilonchrist MR and Mike on youtube LOL OG gave em hell : )

    Oh shi I just realize why Mike's eyes flinched in that interview about Lisa,
    He was imagining himself getting slapped by Slappy again.

    YouTube - Mike Rinder SQUIRMS over the Death of Lisa McPherson

    Now that stupid look makes since. Talk about PTSD
  15. Sponge Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Full resolution version of the blog pic.
    imgp0561v.jpg

    rinderratharrogance.jpg
    (So many captions to choose from!)
  16. mrfyde Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I am all for getting DM indited as a matter of fact I'll bake cupcakes for everyone when it happens. But I want the abuse to stop when / if these mysterious charges appear.

    I want people to know that the reason DM got indited is because he is doing the same things hubbard was. Is that too much to ask ?

    I want people to know they can't bring their dead relatives back to life with a touch assist, I want them to know that when Hubbard told people this is only one of many lives it was because he wanted to bleed everything out of what is likely the only life they have.

    And I feel like a dick for bringing this up, but when did we decide that it was good enough to just get DM indited ? When I signed up the philosophy was death by 1000 cuts (a shot gun approach). I don't want to tell you what to appose, if you want to only protest DM thats cool by me, as long as you remember that a change in management with the government breathing down their necks didn't stop the cult last time.
  17. Random guy Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    While I agree to the points made about Hubbard being a sick bastard and the cult his sick legacy that needs to be stopped, I don't thing going for Miscavige is such a bad idea. His position in the cult is too strong and too entrenched for him to be dethroned and replaced. When he falls, he'll take the cult with him in the fall.

    We should make sure the stupidity does not rise again, and that is best done by exposing their absurd doctrines and nutty scriptures. Thanks to the early years of fighting, South park, Wikileaks and the internet this things are now permanently in the public domain. As long as we don't let people forget Xenu, raw meat for the cult will be thin.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Apologies for the tp;dr (p=pissed) on the entire thread, but

    "capital of credibility and trust that Rinder was primarily responsible for gaining with the media"

    /r/ suggestions for wordfilter on "credibility and trust"

    Rathburn clearly still on Teegeeack!
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I knew this dude "John" who was still angry at a grade-school bully many years into his 20s. One night John made a scene in a bar and spazed out at the guy. All he accomplished was to make himself look small, and a contrite guy feel bad. His bully probably grew up with more insecurities and a worse home life than anything John knew, and anyway it was a long time ago... nobody felt sorry for John with his "issues" after that.

    Mike, Marty, Jason Beghe - they all seem like perfectly good guys who can be forgiven. "Nazi" comparisons bring nothing but eye-rolls. If you think holding them personally responsible can ever happen, either criminally or just for public sympathy... get a clue John.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    [IMG]
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    It is impossible to truly 'forgive' when the guilty party does not acknowledge their 'sin'.

    One of these three has truly shown contrition AFAICT
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I forgive but I don't forget for the others.
    I forgive for myself, but for those who still suffer and are still victimized, especially the children I won't forget or forgive for them for it.

    remember the kittens.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    FTFY
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    TYVM : )
  25. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    What the fuck are you talking about? All that's needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. (Or something like that.) They blew. Good for them. But don't excuse them for the horrendous shit they did while in the cult if they can't even acknowledge they did it.
  26. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I think it's pretty clear Rathbun is blaming DM for all the things wrong in Scientology. But what this also looks like to me is a Rinder ass kissing. Does anyone else see that? Is he trying to get on Mike's good side for some reason? IDK, I could be wrong but that's just how it looked to me.

    As far as targeting DM is concerned, I don't see anything wrong with it. He is a figurehead for Scientology. Scilons think LRH and Scientology are perfect and nothing could be wrong with them. But DM could be exposed to them (no pun intended) and they could believe the crimes without having to doubt their beliefs of Scientology. As DM has such a strangle-hold on Scientology's activities, there would surely be heavy fallout and decline for Scientology in general with his demise as leader.
  27. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I has a question. If and when DM does go down, and barring the complete demise of the CoS, who would step in? Is there a set system for who takes over? IIRC, there was some dispute between him and LRH's wife when LRH died over who would take over, correct?
  28. Random guy Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    That's the ting, they don't have a system for change of leadership. Hubbard did not intend for anyone to replace him. The little dwarf usurped the throne, and from what we have seen, he haven't made a system for replacing him either. It's "After us, the deluge" thinking, and the deluge is building...
  29. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    MR and MR are not good guys. They're not honest. They have damaged many people. They've broken the law many times. They are personally guilty of everything but murder, and even that is not certain.

    I wouldn't buy a used car from either of them.

    Scientology - DM + MR = Scientology as before.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    And yet, they are useful in our trollquest.
  31. Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    There is no system for who would take over. I'm sure a lot would depend on how DM leaving went down. He might flip out and hide in another country, hole up in Gold, or who knows. But if he went quietly and didn't drag the whole thing down with him, they might elect someone, but probably not. Most likely an alpha would step up and try to gain control. Probably restructure everything, they like doing that.
  32. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Hubbard is still the hero, the guru, the god, the enlightened one who is the key to the whole movement and to saving the human race. NOT DM. Scientologists know DM runs things but their leader is Hubbard. Dead or alive. Those who attack DM whether they are Anon or Scilon accept this. If the protest movement focuses on DM we are leaving the field wide open to Hubbard and to Scientology.

    WWP is not about getting DM indicted. It is about destroying Scientology and stopping the damage it does. I get the feeling the focus on DM is a troll. He's an easy target but he is not Scientology.

    "Most likely an alpha would step up and try to gain control. Probably restructure everything, they like doing that."

    And we would have to start all over again with one of these 'good guys' who are currently brushing up their image? I hope most Anons see where this is going.

    In some countries Scientology is not taken in personal terms but recognised to be a persistently criminal organisation.
  33. Smurf Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Alot of the initial criminality, paranoia & attacks on critics of Scientology started with LRH & Mary Sue Hubbard via the Guardians Office long before DM rose in the ranks.

    Why M & M are insistent on white-washing history as to place all the blame on Miscavige is disturbing. I think back to Adolf Hitler & the Holocaust, which would not have taken hold without a number of key individuals willing to go along with Hitler's maniacal ideas and putting them into play.

    I suspect, in the back of the two Mike's minds, is they deserve some serious pay back for the many decades both invested in Scientology, which they see as being destroyed by the psychotic midget AND they continue to operate with the same arrogant, militaristic mindset they had in Scientology, that is, to do things in the future that benefit them and their goals and to hell with all the victims that have been left in their wake.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    They are insistent on white-washing history because they are true believers. You all know how hard it is to speak to scilons, they live in another reality. Same with Mike and Marty. It takes some people a long time to leave the cult behind, these guys will be a while. Hell, maybe never.
  35. Antagone Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    I won't be forgiving any of the people you named because I have nothing to forgive them for. Mind you I do think Beghe's a bit of a pillock and Rathbun's a weaselly little cunt who wants to fraud people with his faux therapy.

    Your 'John' story tells me more about you than about John. It shows you lack empathy and understanding that a dealing with a trauma simply isn't a case of 'moving on and forgetting about it'.

    I loathe that phrase since it's always brought into play by people who are uncomfortable with displays of emotion. They have no thought, or regard, for the person they're addressing it to and merely want to maintain the status quo because they're terrified of anything intruding into their own, insular, little world.
  36. auchraw Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    QFT Disturbing is right. If we go on down this road we could quite soon be fighting on two fronts, the Good Guys (add in Geir Isene, only a matter of time) and the Bad Guy, with Hubbard hovering around waiting to see who wins.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    chill bud, I get your point

    but seriously, targeting the Chair of ANY Board is a common and very useful activist (and lulz) strategy...

    but as you well know its only one of many used around here

    ...imho WWP is still on target

    (and anyway, I laugh out loud contemplating the unfortunate jerk that would TRY to run scientology starting nowadays....WAAY too much water under the bridge)
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    The problem the two MR's have, is that Miscavige is in total control of OSA files. He can simple contort them to reflect, for every dirty trick operation, the two MR's were totally and exclusively responsible; that he, Miscavige, had no knowledge of what the two MR's were doing, and now he welcomes an investigation and prosecution of them.

    The only path for the two to save their necks, is to come clean on what they know of the operations, and how Miscavige was involved.
  39. fitch2000 Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Fixd

    except the apostrophe maybe, hmmm i hate grammar
  40. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Re: Rathbun Talks about Mike Rinder

    Something about this really bothers me. I think it's that I would prefer Marty spend his time exposing what he knows about the criminal behavior of the organization rather than whining and sniping about who was a good Scientologist and who wasn't. Were these people a part of a criminal organization that ruined thousands of lives? If so, then working to expose and correct that, it seems to me, is more important than trying to settle which of the perpetrators was actually a nice guy. John Dillinger was a nice guy who killed people, you know? It doesn't matter if Mike Rinder, deep down, is a sweetheart. What matters is what Mike Rinder DID and what he plans to do about it now. Same with you Marty. You might be a really great guy, and DM might be Hitler II, but talking about bringing people to justice seems more important to me than discussing personalities.

    And yes, the OG kicked butt :)

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