Rafsanjani Sermon: Discussion and Aftermath

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 15, 2009.

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  1. FreedomAgent Member

    lol .. oh the guilt is killing me, I should go to confession will be back in a couple
  2. As if atheists (Stalin anyone) never killed in the name of their belief.

    Pot, meet kettle.
  3. Is this a prophecy or a belief ? I thought you were an atheist. If you want democracy then abide to the will of the majority, those who created Islamic Iran 30 years, and still, and will hopefully remain (with any of the competing parties in charge).
  4. FreedomAgent Member

    Personal choice, an atheist does not believe in abolishing religion, people can believe what they want to believe, but religious law should not be applied on individuals it is as simple as that, why should christians wear the hijab? why should muslims be told to take off the hijab?, why should an atheist be told to follow god's will?, Turkey is a secular state and it is a great example to follow, (given everything is not perfect there but somehow people seem to get along)
  5. makeup your mind, you want democracy or freedom? don't confuse both. If you want freedom, well freedom if not controlled can be devastating to the country, take the US as example: Casinos, Bars, Gun Shops, lot of murders, lot of suicides, prostitution... Freedom is not justice !!!
  6. lol figures, it always ends up turning into a fagfest about the US hahahahaha

    GTFO gov troll
  7. Don't be a shame to yourself, you can't deny what I said.
  8. what i meant was the Iranians obviously want more freedom, which is why they backed mousavi, he was doing things unheard of campaigning with his wife and such and backing womens rights etc.. voting for the best candidate even though some approve and some disapproved of the existing system..

    i think they were fine with just changing the president until the supreme leader showed his true colors..

    now many are wanting a complete restructure of the gov,while others want to revamp the current system with new leaders..

    only they can decide if religion stays in gov or not or if they go a different religous gov route or even they go a total different route with no religion..

    sometimes in the US all the candidates for a political office suck and we vote anyway for the one we think is the best of the wrong candidates lol we call it where i live voting for the lesser evil.. of course they are not evil its just a term, i think with mousavi he was lesser of the evils and now many iranians will not settle for anything less than a full new gov after what has happened.. but only they know right?

    does that make any sense?
  9. FreedomAgent Member

    A muslim in the US has the right to wear the hijab if they chose, a christian in Iran does not have the personal choice to take the hijab off

    Casinos, Bars, Gun Shops, lot of murders, lot of suicides, prostitution?

    These are all there but an individual has the personal choice to take part in any of it or not, its their choosing,

    I love casinos (when I win), hate guns, we can all agree murders and suicides and prostitution are wrong, but we do not need a religious authority to make that decision for us

    democracy and freedom?

    I don't know where you live (thinking U.S), go outside and chant, down with the "president's or leader's name" if you get shot, you are in IRAN
  10. hay you guise. seriously. take the religion/athiesm crap to another thread pls.
  11. JohnDoe Moderator

    Perfect sense!

    Today spouse said something interesting (well spouse always says interesting things LOL) Not sure if I can put this in a way that can be easily understood!

    It was sort of on the lines that the Iranian people are masters at moving their person into place to achieve what they want. So S reckons that what the people have done is get behind Mousavi, as he gave them the opening they needed. They have propelled him into this position of 'leader' of the opposition, he did not chose it. (And even to an extent Rafsajnaji - and that makes sense, Rafsanjani understands that it is the people who created the '79 revolution, and without the people's support the whole thing will/is collapsing. So he has been pushed by the people into the position of having to speak out against the regime).

    It's all very clever, and all very chess like and all very Iranian.
  12. Isn't a woman nearly naked in the streets an obtrusion to the others' freedom in not seeing such thing while passing in the street?

    Why should teenagers and others be subject to such corruption? They make false decisions many times that take their lives away and their brains (Drugs and Alcohol), and and...
  13. FreedomAgent Member

    obstructions are all over it is not society's fault that you and your kind have no self control to look away

    Teach your kids at home about all you think is wrong in the world and they will grow up to be great citizens, not society's fault that you not a good parent

    You answered our own questions, I'm done with the religious talk
  14. Ray Murphy Member

    Well if they follow Rafsanjani's advice to observe the law, and the regime also observes the law, then they can campaign or protest peacefully until the cows come home - and hope the power brokers listen.
  15. exactly!! they had planned to slowly change what they wanted without conflict by changing to more liberal leaders i think, now that the current regime brought conflict to them they are obviously going to go further and possibly all the way.. but i think some the people want different things and they will have to decide that amongst them.. i mean some want religion still in gov and some do not.. but of course that shouldnt be that hard to figure out after stomping in current regime..

  16. true, what to do though? only the people can choose that right?
  17. Ray Murphy Member

    Yes. After the new election is held and Mousavi becomes President they can take it in turns to safely march or campaign for anything at all, providing the requests or demands are legal.
  18. JohnDoe Moderator

    Richard, do you think the current regime had a choice? I mean by their own standards? To quote Karim Sadjadpour "the one thing Khamini learnt from the Shah was not to compromise, to compromise was a sign of weakness"
    I wonder if there are those in the regime who recognized that the regime in its current form is finished, it had already lost legitimacy with the people. Kaminidiot and Amamadman (who was paranoid about a 'velvet revolution')
    and the other hardliners, were then determined before ever a vote was cast to tighten their grip on power - perhaps even to make the country more like N.Korea, as it would be the only way to hold unto the power. It certainly seemed to be what Amamadman was saying in that video that was released a few weeks ago from him in Qom.

    Don't know if I'm making sense - I'm really tired!
  19. JohnDoe Moderator


    You answered our own questions, I'm done with the religious talk[/QUOTE]

  20. JohnDoe Moderator

    Do you know what Ray, Mousavi might never be president!!!!

    If they decide to hold free elections, in which the candidates don't have to be approved by the supreme council,(or whichever body it is that approves them) then we might see someone totally different being elected as President!!!!!!! (Someone from the currently banned list!):D
  21. Ray Murphy Member

    Yes, I was aware of that possibility, but it wouldn't be fair under the pre-existing laws and conventions to start from scratch and allow anyone to nominate for office in a replacement election - just because it appeared that a majority of people might want that to happen. It would also cause a long delay which would guarantee that the "President-Select" gets sworn in. If they simply arrange for re-voting ASAP (with the same paperwork) the main problem goes away before the "P-S" gets worn in.
  22. i think these leaders get so wrapped up in it they loose all objectivity and it becomes more about power than the people, its hard to go from a leader to a follower unless you are a born leader.. a born leader most often cannot wait to turn over power because he understands the anguish and isolation that comes with it..

    to answer your question No, I do not think they see it coming or probably think it is even possible which is incredibly vain considering they were in the last revolution.. I think the religion crossed with Gov encourages this to a extent, but the major factor comes from just seeing yourself as all powerful and seeing everyone else as dogs.. this leader did not even follow the real requirements his position requires so the rules have been different for a select few since the start..
  23. :O you confuted me. How about making executions in the street, how about making orgy in the street... Have control to what you look at my friend.

    you confuted me again, as if you are talking about some other planet. No Kids disobey their parents, no corrupted parents are living in this world.

    Glad that I did, hope it will enlighten your life someday.

  24. Also, why should they obey their parents? it's freedom, you know. Parents become dictators if they forced their kids to do something they think is right for them.
  25. Ray Murphy Member

    Well how many of us here thought that the protests could last and de-stabilize the regime? Even now it could turn a lot nastier if the regime is feeling awfully lucky.
  26. JohnDoe Moderator

    Given their desire to hold unto power at any cost, for power's sake, could they have done anything differently than what they did? ie stamp out the protests so brutally (or at least try to)? Would anything less not have been a compromise on their part?

    Did the head of the IRG not get it right, when he said 'there is no middle ground"

    I think that from the minute Khamini openly back Amamadman on June 19th, it was going to be a case of 'the winner takes it all'. He would either, by sheer brute force keep the power, or lose everything. Now obviously he has no intention of losing everything and so the force has to be extreme. But I also don't think he expected so much resistance from the people, or the clerics. And having thrown everything at the people, the absolute worst and the people are not only still standing, but getting stronger, he is rapidly running out of options.

    Are Khamini and Amamadman like Sadaam and believing only what they want to believe, and surrounding themselves with people who only tell them what they want to hear?
  27. Ray Murphy Member

    Oh they would know. Ahmadinnerjacket wouldn't have gone to great pains to get those pictures of the crowds the other day if he wasn't trying to say "Look - I'm popular too"
  28. JohnDoe Moderator

    I take your point . . . . but that was when people were still shouting "Where's my vote?" Since it has changed and gone way beyond that, and people are now openly saying that the whole system has to go, because not only is Amamadman not legitimate, they are saying the whole system is not legitimate (it was the system that backed him, and the system rigged their vote)

    Mousavi as president would be back to the slowly slowly gradual change, are the people still willing to accept that? I don't know!
  29. JohnDoe Moderator

    I thought all of that up myself!!!! :eek:
  30. Jaymax Moderator

    Okay, it's a couple of days since the sermon, and this thread has served it's purpose, so locking.

    Please keep discussion of news items to a thread specifically for that topic, and non-news discussion in other forums. Thank you.
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