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Questions about Scientology?

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Terril, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Depending on how you want to put it.. he did.

    Scientific study of GSR began in the early 1900s. One of the first references to the use of GSR instruments in Psychoanalysis is the book by C. G. Jung entitled Studies in Word Analysis. Wilhelm Reich also studied GSR in his experiments at the Psychological Institute at the University of Oslo confirming the existence of a bio-electrical charge behind his concept of vegetative, pleasurable 'streamings.' GSR was used for a variety of types of research, with a decline in use as more sophisticated techniques (such as EEG and MRI) replaced it in many areas of psychological research. As of 2010, skin conductance monitoring equipment is still in use because it is inexpensive (eg a galvanometer).
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    This thread made me throw up a little in my mouth. Am I the only one?
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Did you ever feel like Scientology was trying to sell you something? After all, its founder was a con man of the finest caliber. Do you think Scientology could help me in any way, knowing what you do about my views on the "con"?
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Good sign:

    FREE ZONE:
    WE CAN DO YOU
    CHEAPER!
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Get used to it, or not.
  6. whosit Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?


    LRH lied about the majority of his life and what he talked about was stolen from other sources. If you would do a minute of research outside of sucking LRH's dick you would realize this.

    I'm not posting this anonymously so you might actually sit there and think about what I typed instead of tuning it out as entheata.

    There is a LOT of proof out there.

    Wake up.
  7. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    So, an Assessment, the word that goes with that? As opposed to Listing and Nulling?

  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Anonymous,
    thanks for teaching me a little about Jung as far as experimenting with a galvanometer. interesting.

    Jung really made so many huge breakthroughs and in many ways is still ahead of his time far as his own in depth exploration and desire to understand the human psyche.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    one huge difference between Jung and LRH.
    Jung retained his humanity and had a sense of compassion.

    the other one never had it.
  10. OTBT Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    I don't think there is a point to scientology.

    How about Operating Body Thetan.

    Not that I actually believe in BTs anymore, though.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    A prepared list? Do I win?
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    You're assuming that using a galvanometer is a breakthrough. Why is that?
  13. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Its posted publically on ESMB. I don't in fact audit. I just talked to the guy
    as I knew his mother very well via the net. I was actually shocked to see
    she had a child and immediately knew what an awful time he must have had.
  14. RolandRB Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Terril, what I don't understand is how people can continue on with auditing past the OT3 stage in the absence of psychological pressure. People called in for tax inspections, frozen in a mixture of alcohol and glycol, shipped to Earth in DC-8 space planes, stacked around non-exitent volcanoes (then), nuked, their thetans captured in sticks electronic beams, packed into ice cubes, taken to 3D cinemas to watch several days of special motion pictures to implant them, then they depart and think they are the same thetans because they have been implanted with the same memories.

    How did you take that? Did you think, "hmmmm, I guess it's possible. Let's try talking to my body thetans"?

    I used to look up to OTs but when I found out about it and thought how they had swallowed that heap of shit then I changed my mind and concluded that they were weak in the head.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Is it possible that Hubbard intended OT3 as a joke--that its meaning is meant to be "This was all a hoax. Kill the Buddha. Now what?" Sincere question--OT3 is perhaps the least believable story I've ever heard. I could understand it better as an ironic joke--a very expensive, cruel one--than as alleged "history." If Hubbard was intelligent and not psychotic, this is the only possible explanation I can come up with. Then, being in on the joke, the higher-ups cynically play the noobs with impunity.
  16. Re: Questions about Scientology?

    That actually makes alot of sense. I personally think it is just hubbard messed up on pinks and greys but the joke scenario is very possible.
  17. RolandRB Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    If you listen to him saying it in the Assists lecture then you will realise that he fully meant it and so did the people listening to it. It reminded me a bit about Heaven's Gate.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Then life as a game makes more sense. And we really are talking about a kind of organized sociopathy.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    I'm the anon you responded to, and I agree, it sounds at times like he believes himself and certainly others believe him. This is just for the sake of argument--I have no clue what motivated him or the others. But if he was assuming a diabolical Trickster-like role, is it possible that part of the con could have been self-inflicted? In other words, maybe he dove into his own joke as a matter of cynical conviction or Method acting.

    I'm not even really arguing this, just putting it out there as a thought because I can't fathom what drove him to be so evidently committed to his tall tales. I do believe Scientology is extremely destructive in its organized form and it stands to reason that some of the thinking behind that destructiveness would carry into the FZ and independent forms, since they still put a lot of stock in Hubbard's ideas. So I'm not defending it in any way, just trying to figure out what, exactly, it is.

    I once new a real sociopath (not the former-lover-who-fits-the-description-on-the-internet kind, but someone who very deliberately perpetrated massive MLM scams and had friends in US and international organized crime.) Watching him in action held a kind of fascination--his scams were unpredictable and successful because they flew in the face of commonly shared and very deeply held moral/ethical assumptions. So, to him, his victims looked like fools. The Church of Scientology, and Hubbard, are fascinating in a very similar way. It's a kind of moral koan: WTF....?! How could they....?! This is actually happening?! Because we "fools" just don't go there, we are repeatedly sucker punched.

    So, observing that similarity makes me wonder whether that kind of "joking" (along with Vistaril) might explain some of Hubbard's looniness. And if people break down upon hearing the OT3 story, well, they've been trained (influenced, hypnotized or brainwashed if you want to call it that) so that not all of them will junk the whole thing--some will choose to enter the con and assume Trickster roles themselves.

    Any thoughts, Terril?

    PS. I willingly accept an infraction for tinfoil :p--I really want to figure this out and so far, this is the most plausible explanation I can come up with.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Shortly after posting the Jung quote, i thought i should mention that this does not by any means add any validity to auditing.

    Skin conductance measurement is becoming popular in hypnotherapy and psychotherapy practice where it is a method of detecting depth of hypnotic trance prior to suggestion therapy commencing. When traumas are experienced by the client, changes in sweat rate indicate experiencing emotional arousal. It may also be used in behavior therapy, measuring physiological reactions such as fear.

    If anything, using a galvanometer you can tell when people are the most suggestible i.e : brainwashable.

    I am not a psychologist but i think that the mental games scientology auditors are playing are very dangerous and unhealthy. It is in my opinion no less than uneducated quackery, a lot of material being "borrowed" from legitimate psychology doesn't mean auditors are anywhere fit to do what looks likes hypnotherapy.

    Before someone starts to argue about their "win's". Just because you are on the short term contempt with the result, or feeling you have --if a symptom was fundamentally changed in an inappropriate manner you will pay for the consequences. e.g : turning a bad experience into a good one, without changing the function the symptom served, can have serious repercussions when the function is called. Therapists using hypnosis as treatment are aware of such adverse effects when hypnosis is misused.

    Now try and tell that to an auditor, mystified by and blindly following LRH tech "because it works, and helps people".

    You are potentially more dangerous than the guru prescribing grinded bunny bones as a substitute cancer treatment. With the sole exception being that the victims can tell when it doesn't work.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    well said, anon.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    You haven't heard of children being audited but you include a testamonial of a child being audited?

    As for CRB checks, it's a thing in the UK where anyone working with children has to have an intensive background check to make sure they don't have anything murky in their past.

    No matter, I still consider subjecting children and minors to Hubbard brainwashing to be psychololgical abuse. It's bad enough when adults are driven to psychosis but to do it to children is unforgivable. That's the main problem I have with CoS and I don't see Freezoners being any different.
  23. vaLLarrr Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    I would agree. It's culty cancer of the mind.

    Fair play for the ideas and insights, but to swap Co$ for FZ is like swapping a plutonium rod for a uranuim one.

    The longer you spend with it, the deeper the cancer gets.
  24. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    The key point re OT3 and above is not the xenu story. Its about connected entities.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Meaning, the Xenu story and it's huge impact on many people in and out of Scientology can be dismissed or overlooked? Hubbard did tell that story.
  26. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Fuck you. :)

    May you never have the love of " Lemon poppyseed muffins!"
  27. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    You have my point of view. And my technical comments. For what they are worth.

    Its not shared by all scientologists. Specially those in CO$

    Most high trained FZers I asked also didn't believe the Xenu story.

    Its about other entities.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    So this is sort of like a Christian saying, It isn't about a literal virgin birth--whether or not that's true, the story means something. Even as a myth, it has power. --?

    Or is it simpler than that? You say you don't believe the Xenu story. What is it, then--one of Hubbard's lies? A test? A joke? Do you have any opinion on it?
  29. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?


    IMO yes. However reading it does on occasion get people real screwed up. I
    know some. Also benefits.



    More options Jan 30 2001, 6:10 pm

    NOTS AND THE BIBLE

    The Xenu story "body thetans" and Nots auditing has come in for much
    ridicule
    . Here.I’d like to put aside the Xenu story,perhaps class that as
    mythology, ,and look at the relationship between Nots and the
    excorcising of demons as presented in the Gospels.
    One point about the Bible is that it is as well as a religious
    text,a historical document.Further an authorititive one in that there
    are several accounts of the same person and events from multiple
    sources.There are many references to exorcisms,including multiple
    possession.

    There is the question of what if any are the differences between
    a demon and a "body thetan" or entity.They are both non material yet
    alive in some way,both affect the possessee adversely in some way,both
    can be gotten rid of by simple commands,
    both can exist as multiples or clusters..Collectively they seem to have
    troubled man throughout his existance.As far as I can see there is not
    such a lot of difference.
    Considering the Gospels have come down to us through many
    versions,translations ect,none of which were contemporary with
    Christ,there is remarkable similarity,
    to Nots auditing,if that was also the original intention of Christ.

    "In the evening at sundown,they would bring all the sick and demon
    possessed to him……On such occasions he cured many people afflicted with
    various diseases and drove out many demons." Mark 1-32.

    "And summoning his 12 deciples he gave them authority to drive out
    unclean spirits and to heal every disease and every ailment." Matthew
    10-1

    "And his reputation spread through the whole of Syria.They
    brought him evertone who was ill,who suffered from any kind of disease
    or was in intense pain,who was possessed,who was epileptic,or a
    parylytic,and he cured them.Mathew
    4-24.

    These are a few examples. These show that driving out demons was a
    separate
    goal different to curing ,epilepsy,disease,paralysis,pain ect.This was
    probably relieving the person with regard to mental or spiritual
    issues.Councelling if you like
    which is still practiced today in confessional and in exorcism.

    CLUSTERS

    In some instances multiple possession is encountered and
    handled.This is parrallelled by the auditing of "clusters" on Nots.

    "Mary,the one from Magdala,from whom seven Demons had taken
    their leave…." Luke 8-2

    "Jesus questioned him :"What is your name?"
    "Legion" ,he said,because many demons had entered him.They kept
    begging himnot to order them to depart into the abyss……and they
    bargained with him to let them enter those pigs.And he agreed.Then the
    demons came out of the fellow and entered the pigs…." Luke 8-30

    "When an unclean spirit leaves a person,it wanders through
    waterless places in search of a resting place.When it dosn’t find one
    it says,I will go back to the home I left.It then returns,and finds and
    finds it swept and refurbished.Next it goes out and brings back seven
    other spirits more vile than itself,who enter and settle in there.So
    that person ends up worse of than when he or she started." Luke 11 -24

    It seems multiple possession was quite common.The last reference
    seems to be giving an explanation of why that would be.It is also
    parralel to the phenomena of having audited one of a cluster using
    Nots ,there are several more entities who have the same
    pictures,incidents copied among themselves.And they remain.

    TEACHING

    Christ actually taught his Deciples to also drive out demons. See
    mathew 10-1 above.

    Also see below Mark 9-38 , Jesus is called teacher.

    "He called his 12 together and gave them power and authority over
    all demons and to heal diseases." Luke 9-1

    "He formed a group of twelve to be his companions,and to be sent out
    to speak,and to have authority to drive out demons." Mark-14

    Also disciple means one who recieves instruction.As I understand
    it Christ was a man so could not rely on devine powers to excorcise
    demons.He used words,much as auditors do.His disciples certainly were
    not devine and he taught them how to drive out demons.It also seemed an
    important part of his mission.Bringing his version of the "Tech" to
    people,perhaps.

    COMMANDS

    Well in Luke 8-30 you have him bargaining with demons,to let them
    go into pigs.

    Here is another example. "But Jesus yelled at it,"Shut up and
    get out of him."
    Mark 1-25.

    This latter is a bit abrupt.In that it is similar to
    the "Thetan hand" technique of Nots.

    The Shcolars of the Westar institute:-

    Jesus undoubtedly made remarks during the exorcism of
    demons.Because they were not incantations or magical formulae,the
    disciples did not preserve his actual words.As a consequence,scholars
    conclude that words such as those found in 1-25 represent the story
    tellers’s idea of what Jesus would have said in expelling a demon.
    This cold mean these words were simple questions or commands such
    as found in auditing.As in everyday use,and thus not remarked on.They
    are lost it seems
    unless new archaelogical treasures are discovered.

    SQUIRRELLING

    Here is a section from Mark 9-38

    "John said to him,"Teacher,we saw someone driving out demons
    in your name,so we tried to stop him,because he wasn’t one of our
    adherents"
    Jesus responded,"Don’t stop him!……….In fact whoever is not
    against us is on our side……."

    Sigh!…..If only COS had this same attitude.Note the
    addressing of Jesus as Teacher. It looks like Christ is teaching an
    early form of nots here.

    CONFIDENTIALITY

    From Luke 8-16

    "No one lights a lamp and covers it with a pot or puts it
    undera bed;rather one puts it on a lampstand,so that those who come in
    can see the light.After all,there is nothing hidden that won’t be
    brought to light,nor secreted away that won’t be made known and
    exposed."

    Here is another point COS could have learned from.

    So those who wish to mock Nots,you get very close to mocking your
    friends or your own tradition.
    Religion generally,and Christianity in particular has been usurped
    and taken over by Rulers governments and different factions.One well
    known example being the Take over by Constantine,in 325 A.D ,who
    instigated the Vote on whether God was
    1 or 3,by a council of bishops at Niceae.
    Thus some parts of the tradition are given prominence over others
    at different times.I was very surprised at the very many refs.to
    casting out of demons.I have
    only quoted a fraction of them.Yet this tradition is not spoken much
    about.
    I was raised in Christian schools althiough I am not one.I was never
    told much of this,in fact can remember nothing.

    bb
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    So... you believe in body thetans, but not in Xenu? And you would equate body thetans with evil spirits as described in the Bible--thus reinterpreting and appropriating it? In Christian terms, then, you are neither hot nor cold--"I spew you out of my mouth." What distinguishes a "nuanced position" from an evasive rationalization? Do you hold yourself to account for rising to the challenge of an outrageous statement by a man you view as Source? Or do you believe in believing only that which you can believe without too much cognitive dissonance? How do you, personally, decide what to accept and what to reject? Didn't Hubbard make it clear what you are expected at accept?
  31. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    I did OT 2 and 3 knowing of the details and all critical commentaries.

    Did both again.

    I've commented previously of being connected to a theta clear doing this.

    I state my personal experience. I decide for myself all matters. Believe it or not
    with help of Data series. Respect to other methods of logical methods.

    Worked for me. See below one of my first success stories on this level.

    I state my own truth. Learn or mock as thou wilt.

    ---------------
    Success on OT 2


    Here in beautiful Semmering I've just Started to dip my toes into OT 2. Instructed by Ralph Hilton.Getting there is a big win in itself and another story.

    This is auditing unlike any I've ever done, over and above being my own auditor. I've had the strangest sensations, somatics and all sorts turn on and then turn off. Its been fascinating. went a litle exterior a couple of times which is always nice. Still not sure of what wins exactly I've got, as is often the case for me. At least not until some time after.

    One of the wins is the almost, magical, ( I can't think of a more appropriate word) way this tech is working. I was running some wholetrack concepts, and things went quite well. Went out to lunch and found that after a few minutes of walking I felt as though I was on drugs. This is very odd because the only drug experience I've had worth talking about is on one occasion smoking pot some decades ago. Then on the Purif, Some remnants of general anaesthetics were dredged up and affected me and then ran out. That was also a long time ago. I've never had any drug type feelings since. Or had anything since but aspirin and alcohol. So I carried on with the next related concepts on OT 2. The drugged feeling vanished. I felt very good. I was astonished that these sensations could be turned on and off by such simple concepts. Well I've just been doing this for a few days, and have lots to look forward to.

    This level has turned things on stronger, faster and more often than anything else I've ever done. Have only done a few hours so far. It looks as though I've got a few hundred to go. I'm looking forward to this. Looks like some trip.

    bb
  32. Scatman Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    There does not exist sufficient information from what you presented for me to conclude that Virginia McClaughrey had a majority of Hubbard's 12 characteristics most of the time. You stated that she was the only person you met who was an "SP". Our experiences in scientology seem very different as I never have encountered such a person, even those designated by the scientology corporation as "SPs".
    For that matter, I have never met a "Operating Thetan" produced by any means.
    I conclude that scientology really deals with ego manipulation of its members (marks).
    Hubbard fabricated the SP label to ostracize those whose behavior he did not like, and an "OT level" label for those he wanted to instill an egocentric delusion into (and make money doing it.)
    It worked on some folks for a while.
  33. Terril Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    May we conclude you are an idiot?

    More from her son:-

    ----------------
    I'm the person who wrote the original email that appledore posted from agentice@hotmail.com. It's not hard to find out who I am, my name is Tom Rhodes. You can find various things relating to my Scientology experience on the net with a simple google search like some of my email conversations my mom Virginia McClaughry decided to post online "http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.scientology/browse_thread/thread/fba0baca7992cd32/59abd95bde4e951f?q=tom+rhodes#59abd95bde4e951f". Those conversations are taken from a later point in my story after I was just breaking away from their group. I think they give you a very good idea of what it might have been like to grow up with a Mom like her. Just imagine someone as psychologically manipulative and vindictive as her, but also violent and abusive, and unable to relent once she feels she has been wronged in some way, and being forced to argue with her for hours on end until you gave in or left.

    Sorry to rant, but she has never once apologized in any meaningful way. I wanted to show my girlfriend those old posts and I forgot how bad my mom really was and it just opened up old wounds. It still hurts. When I was very little I would fight back and act out and say I hate you and I want a different family. I was gifted and smart and precocious. I would call her out even at that age and she hated it. She slowly over the years used my own love for her against me and broke me down. She made me feel like I was attacking her for speaking out what I thought was the truth. She did that with all of scientologys doctrine at her disposal. She turned me into complete garbage as a human being, and made me think I deserved it!

    I realized just today that what I called me "caving in" multiple times was really me going psychotic or having a moment of insanity. I would be emotional and not thinking straight, I'd be tired and hungry after hours and hours of arguing and trying to get through to this insane person. She would break me down to the point where I was no longer sure of myself or my own reality. Was her reality right, or was mine? I would literally no longer be able to tell the difference between what was real or not real and I would experience complete and utter panic or failure. Only then would she comfort me and tell me she loved me and I'm a strong being and I'm special and only someone as strong as me could be this fucked up etc.

    Anyways, I wanted to talk about some recent developments. I've been lurking around these boards reading posts here and there. Some of it has been really insightful and has given me insight into my on past. I wanted to talk a bit out of order and skip to when I left my group in 2004 at the age of 24 to give you some understanding of what's been going on with me. I was OT who knows what (past 7, I can't remember the exact number) on the freezone captain bill bridge. I was doing things like being audited by lrh with a direct telepathic link, auditing out pyschic attacks by government agents or evil marcabian deprogrammer groups or some such, that kind of thing. I'm only just remembering how bad things were now, I blocked this stuff out, it was so unlike me to be doing those things. I just tried to make myself believe. Anyways, main point is I was very deep into the scientology stuff with lots of hours of auditing and studying, but not in the regular church lines. When I left I just decided to forget all the crazy stuff, and not think about all the scientology stuff until later. As far as I was concerned I was still a scientologist as far as the basic stuff goes like overts, withholds, evil intentions, postulates, arc, thetans, past lives, lrh being good, etc. I just didnt want to think about it anymore. I thought I could be basically normal and I could pursue a career at poker which my friend was doing very well at. I should note that when I left that group, I was having full on realistic visual and auditory hallucinations regularly. I'm pretty sure I was beginning to go insane like my mother.

    So, fast forward 7 years later to today, and only now am I realizing just how much I was damaged growing up how I did. Only now am I attempting to seek medical help for the chronic migraines which have plagued me my entire life probably caused by chronic acute anxiety and panic attacks from being under a constant psychological onslaught from an emotionally abusive mother. Only now am I considering options like Prozac and therapy. I didn't know social anxiety wasn't normal. I didn't know not being able to open up and be honest even with yourself was normal. I didn't know why I didn't experience emotions like love or affection. I didn't know why I felt so bad and uncomfortable all the time.

    Anyways, heres whats going on with me recently and what I need help with. I keep having old thoughts and ideas or rules and values from my old scientologist mindset coming up, and I'm not sure which is real or which isn't. Should I feel bad about something, or shouldn't I? I keep having panic attacks. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. It feels very strange and unfamiliar to say that being a former OT and all. I at least would settle for normal, but to feel like I'm losing my mind? I have my first therapy appointment on the 14th, I sure hope it helps. I'm not really sure I've ever known who I am at all, my mom must have taken that from me at a young age. Sometimes I'm attracted to my girlfriend. Other times I'm not. Sometimes I blame her. Sometimes I blame me. Sometimes I loved my mom. Sometimes I didn't. Which is real? I am just very scared and lost and confused, moreso than I have ever thought possible. Have any of you been where I have been before? It's like the more I start to realize I CAN'T ignore what scientology and my mom have done to me, the more it comes up and the more it sends me loopy and gives me horrible migraines and makes me kind of sick. Its like she used black scientology on me my whole life or something.

    I am just going to keep on believing this is all part of the healing process and the happiness I've always dreamed of is around the corner. You know the worst part of all this is I was so sure of myself and my mom gave me such a big head that I was blind to the reality that I was not capable of working anymore and I hurt my close "wog" friends. My chronic pain was making it so I could no longer work and I thought it was a question of willpower and me being a better person. I had to not be lazy and not give in to temptation. Unfortunately poker was giving me massive anxiety and stress because I had a scientology way of interpreting it and causing me intense migraines which gave me horrible chronic pain for the last 6 years. It was a case of the frog not jumping out of the pot that slowly simmers to boiling. I made promises I couldn't keep and lost the respect of very dear friends which I now have to gain back.

    It's funny, even though I have had to sell all my fun possessions that I worked so hard to get, my friends hate me, and the insanity that I grew up with overtakes my mind occasinally, I have felt more true and intense moments of calm and happiness then I EVER did in the cult of pain in the last couple of years. I have. felt for the first time in 20+ years true moments of love, peace, feeling like a real human being and in myself and relaxed (a very new experience), feeling like I could connect with another human being. So it definitely gives me faith and keeps me on the right track. But man I'm just starting to realize how really messed up I am. :(

    I wish there was some ex scios in the sacramento area I could meet up with and we could hang out?
  34. Gottabrain Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Scatman, Terril:
    A bit of history for you both re the whole SP and RPF thing:
    In the late 70s, I did a filing project for a few weeks at Pubs (now Bridge Publications) in the Base Orders, Flag Orders and other SO orders section. At that time (maybe still) there were all the earlier issues of every order available. Many former Flag Base Orders and directives written by Elron have since been destroyed, or at least, put under lock and key and inaccessible.
    (I am sorry I have to paraphrase this, but I hope my word and memory is worth something, here, as I have demonstrated an accurate memory for old details on many occasions.)

    While doing this project, I was curious how and why the RPF started, so I read everything I could to find the answers. No vid cameras back then. I read everything "Limited Distribution" about the SO that I could get my hands on to find out. I read a lot.

    What I learned at that time was that the RPF originated with the purchase of the first ship. Elron was recruiting anyone and everyone who wanted to come along as he stopped in different harbors during "Mission Into Time". So in addition to innocent adventurers, he ended up recruiting a number of people who were wanted by the police internationally - criminals, thieves, rapists, pirates, murderers - the real hard core types. There were no qualifications of any kind. He needed experienced shiphands.

    Rapes, thefts and violence occurred on the ships. Thus began the RPF as a means of controlling these true criminals. From there, the definition of SP was extended and grew into an extension of Elron's paranoia and grew more and more abusive.

    Those that were on the ships - such as Andre and Mary Tabayoyan, can confirm this information.
  35. Scatman Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Who is "we" in this case, Terril? Do you refer to yourself in the plural?
    I think your remark constitutes incivility and a personal attack.

    I see no validity in putting a dead woman on trial charged with "being a SP" based on the opinions of her son, expressed in emails. I suggest that you get over it and let it go. The label originates in Hubbard's deranged mental processes. It is nonsense.

    Hubbard claimed that scientology grade IV handles the impulse to make others wrong. And on OT 2 one runs "implant gpms" that Hubbard claimed were part of the "incident 2 implants" which the "service facsimiles" allegedly lock into. Then, on OT 3, one runs the implanted "body thetans" through incident 2 so they will leave.
    So, anyone who has done scientology grade IV should not have any inclination to make anyone wrong, IF THE TECH WORKS.
    I have never seen scientology grade IV free anyone from "make wrong". I have seen scientology grade IV victims get worse, becoming more uncivil and engage in insults more frequently and viciously.
    I think such people should seek out real professional help from psychotherapists so that they can recover from the delusions and mental abuse that scientology, with or without a church, imposes on its victims.
  36. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Hiya Terril, nice to see you here and trying to answer (for the most) some honest questions from people. Though I have my own views, highly unfavorable of anything having to do with, coming from, or adhering to "hubbardism", I respect that you can do this and so far haven't gotten butthurt or angry. I haven't read pg 7-9 yet, just guessing.

    I know you are a believer in 'the 'tech' ' to a major extant, have you spent any time studying any other sources of knowledge? If so, what were they? and why did you reject them in favour of continuing to view what your own knowledge has to offer in the/within the contexts of Hubbard's inturpretations of the universe. There are 100's of hours of tapes of lectures thy old windbag spewed, most of the theories and truths he proclaimed have been proven total BS over and over. Do you think the Van-Allan belt is hot? Radiation goes through walls and gets stopped by a body? We're infested with 'BT's'? We gotta kill all the BT's now?
    Did anyone ever consider, (I mean true believers here), that maybe these pesky 'bodythetans/negative engram thingies have evolved and learned things over the years.
    Say, just like other living things, over the years they have evolved. Maybe into their own entities/individuals? Hm, each was supposedly the soul of an eradicated space alien~ so each brainwashed entity remains it's own basic entity ? Or... Did the films be so powerful as to create a homongenous effect? What do you think Terril? Is it possilble we could one day have our own cognizant personal little BT's helping us along in life?
    Man, I have so many questions, but most require just looking rather than asking.
  37. grebe Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Are you aware of how your own brain plays a few tricks upon you? It truly does. That's why scientists find it so important to get others to independently verify their results, why reporters want at least two independent sources for any important story, and why we put so many people on our juries.

    What's true for you isn't necessarily, well, true.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    The Admin vols, scripture or not?
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    This thread is very addictive and I don't know why. Pretty much everything I expected has been said or unsaid.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Questions about Scientology?

    Terril, you consider yourself clear, right?

    Hubbard wrote that "A clear, for instance, has complete recall of everything which has ever happened to him or anything he has ever studied..." [Dianetics, p. 248 in the 2002 edition]

    You should be able to demonstrate this by listing the names of all your classmates in the third grade. Or list the exact foods you ate, in order, during the week from three years ago to this day. Etc.

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