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Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

Discussion in 'Senator Xenophon And Scientology' started by BigBeard, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. BigBeard Member

    Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    Place holder for day 2 after a kickass day 1

    BigBeard

    (Mods - Feel free to add links to day 1 vids & pics here)

    _________________________________

    The proof copies of the Hansard transcripts for the June 28 and June 29 sessions of the Economics Legislation Committee are now available. Here they are in PDF:

    June 28, 2010
    http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S13202.pdf

    June 29, 2010
    http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/senate/commttee/S13212.pdf

    Source:
    Parliament of Australia: Senate: Committees: Economics: Tax Laws Amendment (Public Benefit Test) Bill 2010 - Public Hearings and Transcripts

    The entire June 29, 2010 proceedings of the Senate Economics Committee are now on YouTube. In order of appearance:


    Australian Christian Lobby
    Lyle Shelton, Chief of Staff
    Ben Williams, Research Officer

    Australian Christian Lobby (1/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Christian Lobby (1/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Christian Lobby (2/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Christian Lobby (2/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Christian Lobby (3/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Christian Lobby (3/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Christian Lobby (4/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Christian Lobby (4/4) Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal


    Dr. Matthew Turnour
    Prof. Myles McGregor Lowndes

    Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (1/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (1/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (2/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (2/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (3/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlHktF6n7jk

    Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (4/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (4/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (5/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Dr. M Turnour & Prof. M. McGregor Lowndes (5/5) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal


    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference
    Father Brian Lucas, General Secretary

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (1/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (1/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (2/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (2/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (3/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (3/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (4/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (4/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (5/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (5/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (6/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (6/6) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal


    Melbourne Law School, Not-for-Profit Project
    Dr Matthew Harding, Senior Lecturer
    Dr Joyce Chia, Research Fellow

    Melbourne Law School (1/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Melbourne Law School (1/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Melbourne Law School (2/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Melbourne Law School (2/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Melbourne Law School (3/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Melbourne Law School (3/3) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal


    Larry Brennan - Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Larry Brennan - Scientology and Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal


    Treasury
    Michael Wilcock, General Manager, Personal and Retirement Income Division
    Sandra Roussell, Manager, Philanthropy and Exemptions Unit

    Australian Taxation Office
    Greg Williams, Acting Deputy Commissioner of Small and Medium Enterprises
    Michael Hardy, Assistant Commissioner Policy & Government Liaison and Government & Not for Profit Sector

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (1/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (1/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (2/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (2/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (3/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (3/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (4/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (4/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (5/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (5/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (6/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (6/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (7/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (7/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (8/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (8/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (9/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (9/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal

    Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (10/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal
    YouTube - Treasury & Australian Taxation Office (10/10) Senator Xenophon's Public Benefit Test Proposal



    Here is a YouTube playlist for June 28 and another for June 29.

    June 28
    YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

    June 29
    YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    The music being played is very reminiscent of Sci 'on-hold' music. lol

    Is Scientology going to be speaking again today?
  3. sheeple Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    finally on!
  4. Zhent Member

  5. Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    My connection is fucked. Please give updates.

    Thanks
  6. Zhent Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    The Australian Christian Lobby is going on the 'making general law on an exception (Scientology) is bad'

    Also that Scientology can (should?) be taxed under existing legislation.


    Despite their opposition to the bill, they still clearly don't like Scientology (A cult!).


    The senators are clearly interested in the concept of a public benefits test/charities commission.


    Some drama is stirring up between the senator and the ACL :) Seems to be a communication breakdown.
  7. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    I lol'd when the senator asked if the ACL had changed its position, because what they are saying now is apparently very much toned down from what they wrote. Their viewpoint is not really standing up to examination.
  8. BigBeard Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Hindsight being 20/20 it occurs to me that if the ATO gets their hands on the real books, it's going to be a tad difficult for the Cof$ to explain how spending money on PIs to track down SPs is a "public benefit."

    BigBeard
  9. Zhent Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch



    Yep, they forgot to do their research!
  10. Simonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    I did, too, Sponge, LOL at "did you change your position?"

    The hearings today started off with a bang. These guys, Australian Christian Lobby, even though they're opposed to the bill, they have my permission (LOL) to argue it all day long! The opening statement involved lots of "Scientology is a cult, it deserves to have its tax-free status taken away."

    And as I'm typing this, he answered Xenophon's questions about: "But if the Church still gets free status, wouldn't you say the system isn't working?" He agreed but doesn't want a benefit test.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    New Rule: Finding Xenophon secksee doesn't make you ghey.
  12. Simonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    Reposting what I said at the other topic, we should be using this one:

    -------

    The hearings today started off with a bang. These guys, Australian Christian Lobby, even though they're opposed to the bill, they have my permission (LOL) to argue it all day long! The opening statement involved lots of "Scientology is a cult, it deserves to have its tax-free status taken away."

    And as I'm typing this, he answered Xenophon's questions about: "But if the Church still gets free status, wouldn't you say the system isn't working?" He agreed but doesn't want a benefit test.
  13. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    They kinda just sound like the rest of those small outfits, spouting rhetoric in their submissions, who are worried that their free money supply might be taken away but, when it comes to the crunch, cannot convincingly argue against a public benefit test.
  14. Zhent Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    "I would of thought that was stating the bloody obvious!"
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    12:15pm–1:00pm

    Mr Larry Brennan (via teleconference)


    Time cannot move quickly enough for us to get to Larry's presentation.

    Religious Cloaking FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING WIN!

    This could be beautiful to watch as he breaks it down for the committee.

    I'm hard already.
  16. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    For the non-video capable we are now watching:
    Dr Matthew Turnour (submission 1) (via teleconference)
    Prof Myles McGregor Lowndes


    He doesn't seem to have strayed much off his submission.

    I hope Xenophon makes the point "if you think common law already covers it then why isn't it working?"
  17. Zhent Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch


    Its just a pity its over the phone, so the effect will be somewhat diminished.

    Wish they could of done a video-conference.
  18. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    He always sounded good on the phone on radio shows.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    I like this. All I care about is Scientology paying their taxes. Hopefully they are made to do so after this.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    oh hai 25 guests
  21. Anonymous Member

  22. moarxenu Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    Larry Brennan is speaking at 10:00 pm Eastern time and 7:00 pm Western time.
  23. BigBeard Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    Guess "they" wanted to keep everything in one place.

    Oh, well.

    BigBeard
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Sadly, I must sleep.

    But my dreams shall be full of Larry Brennan delivering sweet, cult-sodomising truth.

    Best have the vids ready for when I wake up.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    9qclky.jpg
    [SIZE="6"]THIS PAGE IS BEING WATCHED
    BY [COLOR="Red"]ENEMIES[/COLOR]
    OF THE LULZ
    [/SIZE]
  26. hokum Member

  27. adhocrat Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    tea time in Australia
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Tea Time in OZ gives us time to stock up on the popcorn.

    popcornball3.jpg
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch


    114145414879.png
  30. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Well, those lawyers bored the fucking arse off everyone (mostly because I didn't understand half of it). I miss Louise, the batty barrister for scientology, who looks and sounded like she must have fucked her way up through lawschool and the bar.
    louise20mcbride200x0.jpg

    I think senator Cameron pointed out something which I was trying to find words to express, in that he questioned those lawyers about whether we really need to over-complicated it and go down this highly academic route for what is a simple test. I think people would have listened more if they had provided a sensible alternative suggestion which works as good as the UK and the New Zealand charity commission as well asking if they can explain why the current common law isn't working (Agape Ministries being a clear case of an organisation that got tax exemption for a long time until after only a large crime triggered the common law that stopped them).
  31. Zhent Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Running 10 minutes late....


    Ah, right on cue :)

    Presenting:
    Australian Catholic Bishops Conference (submission 63)
    Fr Brian Lucas, General Secretary
  32. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    The other tactic of religious groups opposing the bill is to redefine the terms. Like it almost sounds like he's doing in his opening.
  33. anonhuff Member

  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - hearing CoS after lunch

    Yup. They said the new 2006 legislation largely codified, and was essentially consistent with, existing case law. Cult was talking nonsense (for a change - lol).
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    The Father's argument about changing the interpretation of "public" benefit for purposes of a "public benefit test" ignores the most important factor of evaluating the benefit against any actual harm also done by the charity/religion in question.

    He didn't complete his thinking on that issue, imho. The critical part of the PB test is the second part of "do no harm." (to be simple about it).
  36. Sponge Member

  37. adhocrat Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    "Inverted commas"

    I love Cameron
  38. Sponge Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    * He's a Scotsman.
    * This bill is about not giving money from the public purse to people and organisations that don't deserve it.
    * Copper wire was invented by two scotsmen fighting over a penny. ;)
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    Skipping ahead in the schedule, I think the Melboure Law School presentation will be interesting.


    They agree with the PB test but not with the approach being taken.

    Their submission is here:https://senate.aph.gov.au/submissions/comittees/viewdocument.aspx?id=19d08919-2581-4171-aaf2-7e304042358d

    And the attachment: https://senate.aph.gov.au/submissions/comittees/viewdocument.aspx?id=fa356ef8-47da-4c33-b731-6e1aeb7b5bb3

    PDF formats
  40. adhocrat Member

    Re: Public Benefit Test - Day 2 Hearing

    You extrude sincerity

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