Project Dead Law Firm So, I was reading one of the discussions, and I came across this post: I happen to live at a university with a law school attached, and within walking distance of another similar institution. I was thinking that if we could get a master list of law firms accepting cash from Scientology and its related frontgroups for legal services (we can start with the threatening letters we've been getting and go from there), then distribute the fact that such firms are supporting such an unsavory group (play up the fact that the Scilons are involved in mind control and torture) amongst law students (fliers and websites ftw), we might be able to accomplish mission #2 there. As for mission #1, we'd really need to find connections within top Wall Street and other corporate firms. That's about the only thing we can afford, unless someone's sitting on a few million to invest in full page ads in the Wall Street Journal or something. Any thoughts on how to refine this idea into a working project?
Re: Project Dead Law Firm If you want to affect law student recruitment and are talking specifically about Latham, you need to focus your efforts on the law schools that Latham et al care about. These are yale, stanford, harvard, columbia, nyu, chicago, and maybe boalt (berkely) or penn. If any anon attend or have friends who do, this might be a resource to consider. Another way to influence perception among lawyers and law students is to reach them online: comments section of AboveTheLaw.com blog comments section of WSJ law blog ( http://blogs.wsj.com/law/ ) message boards: xoxohth.com lawschooldiscussion.org/ might be good to link to the radar and gawker coverage.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm (1) Complaints against law firms should be made to the state bar association, not the ABA. (2) I worked for one the the largest law firms for almost a decade. Just because they're big doesn't mean they're not commiting professional malpractice/ethical violations. (Just ask the folks at Milberg Weiss.) IAAL, so I know whereof I speak.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm I've been doing researching law schools and discussing law careers post graduation. Major problems I see here: The people who are planning on going to these top law schools don't care who their clients are...they are in it for the money. For example, someone who plans on working in big biz isn't going to care Williams & Connelly did a little bit of work for Co$. Those who are going to Tier 2 law schools are more likely to listen, as are those who go to state bar exam schools in states like Calif. Now, it never hurts to bring up the topic at websites where these things are discussed. Just don't expect a lot of "Oh Noz I won't work there" in response
Re: Project Dead Law Firm EXACTLY. In fact, these kind of firms actually get a kick out of representing controversial organizations. And it doesn't matter what "tier" school somebody comes from - we all owed a shitload of money in student loans and if the money was there, we'd take whatever job we could find.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm IANAL...but for those who are, wouldn't law firms take pride in defending bullshit like Co$ successfully and use it as a feather in their cap rather than something shameful? It seems like law firms like to fight as dirty as possible (win at any cost) and Co$ is as dirty as they come.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Yes. Law firms fall all over themselves to get to represent Big Tobacco and Big Pharma.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Mo money = mo money. Law firms are businesses, not social service organizations.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm i wasn't referring to the law firms, i was referring to the state of 'justice' in general. for a country founded on, among other things, the idea of equal representation, America sure doesn't seem too keen on that these days. It just seems like the body of law is de facto (owing to the huge amounts of laws, rulings, and opinions) stacked against those who can't afford professional legal help.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm listen, everybody needs lawyers. i dont think it would solve anything yet by going after l&w, in the near future it could be good somehow. we dont have the money/manpower/experience that the CoS and L&W have with this kind of thing. reporting them to the bar, will not accomplish much either, they are experienced professionals, we are amateurs at best. if we keep digging somewhere we might find a golden nugget in between all that trash. just remember, they are smart, we have to be smarter.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Firms THINK that kids care, though. They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars printing up glossy binders about how diverse and compassionate and pro bono and pro-family they are, and throw you little cocktail soirees where you eat $15 lumps of something-tartar and listen to them wax politely about their "culture." It's a load of horseshit but they treat it like it matters. If they *thought* that recruits perceived them as a handmaiden of an evil wacked out cult, that might affect them. If the comments section on a popular law blog seemed to be full of people sniping at Latham for their involvement with CoS, this would irk them. Anyways, lawyers also care about their professional image. If AboveTheLaw writes an entry treating your firm like a joke, it affects morale. The angle to take here isn't that CoS is evil and powerful and omnipotent -- all these people DO admit, quite frankly, that they rep Phillip Morris and Halliburton. But being perceived as tied to CoS is, in the current climate, not very prestigious. Think: Cruise, South Park, Gawker... So if people are going to pursue this, mockery is the best angle to play up. Not to mention that if this stuff gets more exposure among attys at big law firms in major cities, it gets incidental exposure among their friends and acquaintances. If a meme catches fire among the urban 25-35 y/o $500k+ demographic, it's only going to become MORE culturally influential.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm The Church has deep pockets to fight their adversaries, always remember Robert Minton: http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien424.html http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien430.html he was #1 on the scienos list and then they got to him: this is coming from a guy who earlier had said: the saying that one drops ten take his place is nice, but how many will still fight after all this? there has to be a way to get them where it hurts, without hurting anyone. With Anonymous its great and all, no leaders to hold accountable, but the church will find a way, it always does.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm People should be cautious about posting anything anywhere that might be construed as tortious. If you're confident about something you're posting, and *you* know it's lawful, but you're worried there's even a negligible chance it could be spun the wrong way, then consider 7 PROXIES. Powerful entities looking to chill and dismantle networks of online dissent love it when they are able to identify people via subpoena.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Looks like AboveTheLaw.com already has it as fourth story down on their front page with links to the radar coverage. Did one of you do that?:flowers: My favorite comment: "Heh. I love watching the fools at CoS shoot themselves in the foot. My experience litigating against CoS found them full of bluster & braggadocio. Lots of threats, lots of words. Logic & smarts, not so much. Nice to see they haven't changed. Hmm... wonder if any of those anonymous people are in Boston? I've been kind of spoiling for a knock-down fight. -- ET! (who was going to say that CoS went down in my case like a high school prom queen, but who really doesn't want jack-booted thetans kicking down his door)" Posted by: Anonymous | March 28, 2008 03:13 PM
Re: Project Dead Law Firm bravo, anon! or maybe [ATL blogger] david lat is secretly one of us.... Also, from the comments section: I seem to recall that the firm does do some work for the COS -- tax work, I think. When I was there, I remembered seeing a C/M number for the COS. Posted by: Ex-Lathamite | March 28, 2008 05:13 PM
Re: Project Dead Law Firm me thinks that these law blogs should start getting some information, but not too much at once. a little sprinkle here and a little sprinkle of fairy dust to start. remember that these people are lawyers. if someone would comment, i wouldn't start with telling them about Xenu either. edit, after i posted this seems as though this appeared: Somebody at Latham doing something criminal? Comment by Anonymous - March 28, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Re: Project Dead Law Firm if you do post there, keep the anon speak to minimum please. it is almost as bad as scilon speak.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm It appears that the "presige" of L&W is in further question for something besides the Anon thing: Front page Lawyer of the Day: Samuel A. Fishman http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/03/lawyer_of_the_day_samuel_a_fis.php#more 1st Comment: "Yep - that is latham's very own. He was found out about two years ago and was quietly booted. It was great. He was a total tool." Posted by: fish-daddy | March 28, 2008 03:55 PM
How stupid an idea is it to protest against L&W? Assuming the law allows, and that we are not interfering with any legal proceedings, etc. After all, L&W is a business and the public can complain against unethical, unfair behaviors, right? As you can see from other threads, I think we may have sufficient evidence from the letters they handed out. Not that we need to win any any lawsuits, or win any bar complains, we just need enough to have public opinion on our side. Obvious protest against fair game is obvious. This is operation dead law firm and operation fair play rolled into one, just by changing the place of protest, at the doors of L&W. Getting two birds with one stone. This is more than staying on course, dead focus on fair game, which every journalist dreaded. This is probably more headline grabbing than protest at orgs, prestigious offices all over the world, rather than some small and hidden orgs. Not to mention that nobody had done it before (?). There were discussions about whether in front of orgs are the best place to get public attention. Now we have a good alternative. Protesting in front of offices of rational people is a piece of cake compared to protesting in front of scifags.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Do people not realize that Latham Watkins is the most successful law firm in the world? Their annual revenue is in the billions. Good luck with that fight. Hats off to ya matey. Stay on target.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm do people not realize that Scientology is the most profitable corporation in the world that doesn't pay taxes.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Exactly, why would I want to protest a dingy law office that nobody knows? It's a piece of cake. Would they call the riot police? No. Would they follow me home? No. Would I want to be a lawyer, no chance.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm As I understand, (sorry, only from Boston Legal), there are many partners in large firms, which have no idea what other partners do normally. The other partners might use this to pressure a particular partner, or just something to laugh at behind his back or in front of his face. It might just be that CoS owned this partner (with dirts on him). But ^ this is irrelevant. As for the course, I hated people follow me home and send me scary letters (not yet). This is the MAIN reason that I turned up - CoS threatening your (and my) freedom of speech. We are not fighting the entire law firm, unless the founding partner come out and say something stupid. We are fighting CoS, who use some dubious methods and a partner helped them. We are not fighting the law firm itself, just as we are not fighting Scientology. I'll do anything legal that help the cause, bringing publicity and public opinion to our side.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Ranked 4th prestigious in U.S. Claimed annual revenue approx. 2 bil usd. but yeah, target = target. expose church = law firms drop client.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm From the IRS leaked docs, from 1989 - 1993 or something the Church paid about 8,000,000 / year for legal fees. That is why L&W is still working for them I believe. I tried to find out from court documents who their lawyers were back then and the lawyers were mostly Los Angeles’s Bowles & Moxon and other people that were on the direct payroll of the OSA. I wonder if that 8m figure included other lawyers as well, since they probably had Moxon donate his services. From another article I found a list of lawyers that previously tried very very hard to fight the Church Pro-Boner:
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Wow, I should stop posting, but it gets juicier and jucier. On a related front, we should go after Johnson Pope's client list. I know that they provide services, but there should be some Anon's that go to UF law school?
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Moxon and Kobrin definitely work for them. Look at this example of how the Co$ censored Xenu.net http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?NoticeID=232
Re: Project Dead Law Firm I'm suprised Latham would send such flawed and frankly, stupid letters. I guess intimidating 'legal' letters work on 99% of the population :/ The legal system is a joke
Re: Project Dead Law Firm What kills me is that they try to deny Xenu and several other things, yet that letter right there shows that they have it COPYRIGHTED. Why would you copyright such a thing, if it's a lie?
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Hi Holdemm, you beat me to it, and you know I'll be back. The title of this thread, and the prior discussions, are misleading to my unoriginal idea of spreading the truth at the doorsteps of law firms used by Scilons. So I will start a new thread. Also, I haven't received any reason why demonstrating in front L&W is a stupid idea. We are not fighting Sci with religion. We are not trying to out sue them. We are not fighting law firms on law (though law information helps, glad that Mustang noticed the thread). We are "fighting" big companies with bad PR, and the company just happened to be the 5th (?) ranked law firm, which is a little disappointing than 1st or 2nd. We are not fighting the law firm or even the particular partner who took on Scilons as a client. We are just spreading the truth about Scientolog's Fair Game policy. You can see from Graham that bad PR is effective bad PR. More later. What I know about Sci lawyers (from this and other forums and google). Their law firm used to be Moxon & something. If I am correct, Moxon must be a Scilon because he lost a daughter, possibly underage, who must be a SO, working in Hemet. She got electrified in an "accident" (please check). Moxon's split with his partner, who setup another firm, which must be having nothing to do with Scilon anymore. No body want to be representing CoS. LRH's policy is not to win, but to silence critics, intimidate. No lawyers used to want to fight CoS either because they will out deep pocket you. They will give you enough work that you clients cannot afford to pay you, and you cannot afford the hours for nothing else. After a while, it must be clear that suing not to win must be a career-suicide. Not even mafia and gangs want you. No other clients need that sort of experience. There must be some Scientology lawyers who work for free. Even that is not sustainable if you don't get any other clients and all your time is spent on useless paper work. And once you are owned by Scientology, you probably will have to work free or for as little as they can get away with. From a recent successful law suit against CoS, the guy who got millions brag that CoS lawyers are laughed at, ridiculed in court. That's hardly surprising as they have no good case and the ones who left to represent CoS aren't bright in the first place. Perhaps that's why they hired L&W to scare little kids. I think it will backfire.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Mind you I know little to nothing about law *disclaimer for stupid comments* What about Conflict of interest? They have the 4th best already but what does it take for a "group" to be considered a client? Such as with Sean Casarov (spelling sorry) does that mean that the CO$ can no longer use whatever lawfirm he is using. And, for this to apply to other law firms, what is required to gain the privilege. Such as my father works in a law firm (not saying which one) but if they try using his office and I then reveal what group my interest coincides with would they then be denied service? Or, by not telling him am I footbulleting myself to begin with. I know this isn't a law info board I just don't want to risk to many people finding out. But, it also seems like if we could make the situation of representing the CO$ shady by just talking to some law firms that seems like it would be an easy method of keeping at least a couple law firms off their pay roll. But, as far as I know this could even be illegal, I just have no idea. *end stupid comments* Out on recon
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Emphasis mine. Would Big Pharma give a shit about their chosen law firm representing the organization calling for their global obliteration? Does L&W represent any pharmacutal companies? Could be an angle.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm There is some difference between big Tobo and big Farma vs CoS. They are bigger. They are defending themselves. We know people are going after them for big money so we are used to these guys hiring the most expensive lawyers they can get. They play to win. If a lawyer do well in these cases or gain some experience, you will never run out of work. *** stupid disclaimer follows ... Now for the joe public opinion test: they send letters to warn against bomb threats to teens, right? to decorated war veterans? to star buck staff? What do YOU think?
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Latham has done some Pharma work, but it looks like it's more device than drug. And they've done a ton of tobacco work, so they know how to deal with clients that are, ahem, a touch unsavory.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm Here is a way to get started in our quest, ATL is having a poll today only for the coolest law firms. we missed yesterday and L&W got voted best law firm. Lets see what we can do for their LawFirmFinal Four: http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/04/atl_march_april_madness_for_la_1.php#more Currently, as of 12:00pm PST, Latham is "cooler" 71% to 29%. They are the last poll.
Re: Project Dead Law Firm First off, COS (note the lack of CO"$") is paying Latham $500,000 a month retainer. We just got intel that COS income is down 50% globally since we started in on them. Graham Berry already had a potential client shun Latham for their COS ties. COS's $half milly is a drop in the bucket for Latham. Picketing/focusing public scrutiny on Latham will make them think twice about their unsavoury client. Also, Latham's clients should be spammed (read: 'made aware') with the facts/dirt on COS and the fact that they're 1 degree of separation from the Cult of Fail. I for one would like to participate in trolling Latham to dump their evil (and increasingly impoverished) client.
