Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by pwnon, Mar 30, 2009.

  1. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Look through the topic. It's been me, atl, you, dude with four letters, and that's pretty much it. The collective whole passes the topic up, when it's a chance for a large win. Oh well.
  2. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    The tl;dr of it is it's nothing new for NC to shit on their own citizens. Adapt, and move on.

    If you want me to share something useful, I only saw the word "devices" in their ban. If the makeup question has not already been answered by a legalfag, I'm curious about that loophole. A device in this context would be a mask, according to Webster Dictionary. Powder, grease paint, etc., would not. Of course, maybe Greensboro is feeling jealous of Durham because of the free press they're getting because of their lolsuits. I can hear their City Council meetings now, "But I want to open our taxpayers up to a $30 million judgment and have our police department gutted and top officials tossed in prison too. We need the press. Bawww!" If I were driving to DC from the south, I would make a detour around NC, because on this score, they even make Mississippi look good. I just hope no one gets Nifonged over this.
  3. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Why? Why should we say "Oh, well, if an attorney says "lul no" without listening to us, let's just pack up and leave."? We have a valid reason, a valid purpose, and a legal exemption. Sorry, but some weasel can't stop us from getting this far.
  4. anoncaek Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    so i herd u waz takin down a cult, and you started over a year ago! wow, i think its time you adapt, and move on
  5. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    By adapt and move on, I mean that if you can't get in through the front door, check the back door. If the back door is locked, look for a window. Don't continue pissing and moaning that the front door is locked unless you're willing to pay for or know a good locksmith. As a side note, for some strange reason, that line of reasoning caused me to flash back to Daryl Hannah's naked ass in Roxanne. VERY NICE!!!
  6. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Oh, and something horrible happens when I get drunk. I start to become more docile and passive, and I wake up in another state wondering where my clothes are. Speaking of which, how the fuck did I go from the East Coast to Oregon? :p
  7. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Did you read this thread? We've gone to, and pounded on, every door. We're now at this small, 1x2 basement window that we can just squeeze in, but we need a little grease. It (the city attorney) is rusty and preventing us as of the moment, and we're brainstorming on what to grease it with.

    Also, since time is of the essence (our last chance before the next protest is this Tuesday), we're looking for that grease as fast as possible.
  8. 8895 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Represent yourself.

    You need to go speak at a city council meeting with some others for support. Behave, speak, and present yourself professionally, and always respect the council.

    You need to present evidence to them that Co$ presents a danger to protesters, and that Co$ indeed has reason to be protested. Treat it like a court case.

    You should be able to speak anonymously, but don't wear your mask.

    DO bring a mask to show them that it isn't offensive or provocative.
    DO bring lots of SIMPLE paperwork, photographs, vids, etc for evidence.
    DO bring evidence showing that Anonymous has been holding these masked protests around the world for over a year, and that many local police agencies report no problems (violence, vandalism etc) with them whatsoever.

    DON'T use memes, profanity, or slander regarding Co$ when addressing the council.
    DON'T act misrepresented or bitter about the first contact (show respect to the asshole city attorney)

    THEN you can, as an ace in the hole....
    Also, don't expect or ask for an immediate decision. Offer them time to review the materials presented on their own and consider your points in their own timeframe.
  9. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Technically, this entire thing doesn't involve Scientology. We're faced with proving that Anonymous is an organization that requires masks for it's demonstrations, not that Scientology is an illegal or corrupt cult.

    And as to what you quoted on SixOneTwo, that is in reference to something else. I got a message from a certain lawyer that said there is a Supreme Court of the US ruling that protects masked protests. Unfortunately, I haven't heard back from him on what that is.
  10. 8895 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    If you have to miss one battle to be able to continue to fight the war then so be it.

    For now you should focus on getting the right to wear the masks. Once that's done you'll have the backing you need to protest all you want in the future. Hell, hit your org twice or three times a month if you have to make up for it.

    Once you get the right to protest and you pull a few off peacefully, this will likely never be an issue again. Pick your priorities carefully.

    Good Luck man, sorry to hear your 1st good news bubble got burst.
  11. 8895 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Those are kinda the same thing though. If you can show that the Co$ is a danger to unmasked protestors then you automatically prove likewise that Anonymous requires masks for its demonstrations. You don't have to prove Co$ is a fucked up cult, just that they're a danger to critics.
  12. Pacifist Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    I wish I had more useful input, but I'm afraid I don't. I just want to give encouragement and wish you guys good luck; I'm happy to see this unwinding as far as it is, both for Anonymous' sake, and free speech in general.
  13. Mutante Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Not allowed masks? Observe and replicate.



    That is all.
  14. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Okay, you want a suggestion? I checked Merriam Webster dictionary. Makeup is not a "device". Fake tattoos, grease paint, fake piercings, or take some pointers from the monastic costumes at shops that cater to RenFairers or Death costumes for Halloween. And yes, I agree with giving the douchenozzles on the G'boro city council information on the Co$'s failgame policy to prove the necessity of masks. As far as the monastic/nun costumes, you can even say you are acting as a result of comments made by that Cardinal from Quebec whose name I can't remember and I'm too lazy to look up.
  15. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Thank you. That's kinda why I've been pushing so hard. Obviously, being able to wear masks would be an EPIC WIN!!!!11!!!!, but at the same time, I find the fact that the law restricts how someone can protest to be mind boggling. If freedom of speech is allowed, and freedom to flyer anonymously are allowed, as previously proven, I see no reason why we cannot wear a mask.

    It goes beyond Project Chanology for me, personally, at this point. What if someone were protesting the City of Greensboro itself? Shouldn't they have the right to do it anonymously, for the fear of being blacklisted by the city? Or out of fear of retaliation?

    I was okay with that, at first, but then I kept digging, and I'm finding that Gboro is actually not so great with some things. There was a story I read last night. A woman had been in an interview with the police. After the interview, she requested that she get a copy of the tape. She has a right to those tapes. The cops said it was an issue to take to the City Attorney. She emailed the Attorney and he responded with "I've decided that these tapes are a matter of privacy and cannot give you a copy." That's messed up.

    Then there was another story about a journalist requesting all the records for a company's bailout issues (IIRC). He wrote the letter, waited, and like two weeks later, contacted them. One person told him the dox were not available yet. He called back, got another person, and was told the dox are ready and waiting. He picked them up, got home, and realized it was only a very small fraction of what he requested. He messaged them back again and told them he had specifically stated he wanted all the documents. They told him they would get the dox for him and they'd be ready. He finally went down, got the new dox, came home and realized, while there were more, he had only been given a fraction of the total again. He emailed again and they told him that they'd have all the documents ready after the legal department went through them. He responded that the legal department has no right to go through them, since all the matters were of public record, and them censoring what he was given (to cover up a corrupt politician, at the time) was illegal and that he would sue for them if he had to. They messaged back that all the dox were ready for him.

    When he got them, once again, it was more complete, but obviously had been censored, as he was missing papers from all the companies payouts and soforth. That's where the story ended, but I'm guessing he still hasn't received them.

    Regardless, NC remains vigilant. The letter of the law is on our side, we qualify, there is no reason why we won't be wearing a mask at the next protest. Of course, unless we continue to get blacklisted.
  16. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    While I don't disagree entirely, I do have a problem with trying to circumvent the law entirely, as would we be doing if we attempted that. The definition, however, is what I'm currently thinking about. But if we're going with definitions, let's keep it localized.



    Mask as a part of the doctrine.

    His own definition. We fit for it. I can see the City turning down the KKK since they use masks as intimidation. We use ours as self-protection. He would know this, if he actually had spoken to anyone from our group. He no'd us on the face of the question, with no contact whatsoever.
  17. lothar Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    As I've stated before, southern states have restrictive mask laws for public roadways for very obvious historical reasons.

    Yes, you can wear a mask in a parade or some group has a ceremony at a park, etc.

    I'm still convinced even if you were able to cajole this into a "ceremony" that required a mask, you would have to walk to protest unmasked (unless you get parade permit and pay usual public safety fee for shutting down roads, etc. assuming it was ever approved).

    Think about if the KKK decided they wanted to stand across the street of a house or business in full garb and call it ceremony.... I'm not equating Anon to anything, just the extension of your "backdoor" mask law.

    Now on the other hand, imagine a mega church spouting anti-muslim preaching talking about exterminating some nationality. Would muslim women in religious attire be allowed to protest? Does NC university have any Iraq war protests? Are hijabs allowed? Look for protest photos that show exceptions allowed.
  18. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    With approval from the City only.

    No. From what I've been told, Anonymous has the right to protest on any public walkway, sidewalk, etc in the City of Greensboro. This exemption gives NCfags the ability to wear the masks at the protest. Anywhere in the City, we're good. Of course, the cops will be called, but copies of the law and exemption will be held at all times, no options.

    No. North Carolina Anti-Mask laws are, whether they'll straight up admit to it or not, created to curb the KKK. This exemption is the way to allow any group to obtain permission. Nobody is going to okay the permission for the KKK. Why? The use of the mask. They use their mask for intimidation. We use our mask for prevention of retaliation.

    Freedom of Religion protects them. The hijabs and the religious veils aren't an attempt to hide the identity.
  19. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Okay, updating for Hivemind knowledge.

    My poons to both NotSoAwesomeCouncilLady (NSACL) and the City Attorney have gone the weekend without being responded to. My call to NSACL was placed to her cell phone, so she's just straight up ignoring that at this point. A bunch of us NCfags got together this morning and decided that it was time to prove us as an organization, not as one person representing an organization. Local 'poons were launched at all relevant departments and personnel. If the City Attorney says no, might as well contact anyone working with City Council and let them know about us regardless, no? We explained that, through no purposeful fault of any one person, we were unfairly misrepresented, and we did not agree with being told no without any contact from the City Attorney. Or even a name, believe it or not.

    About an hour ago, I launched the biggest 'poon, working with some of our Anons. We decided it was for the best to involve the Mayor, since she heads City Council, plus, the City Attorney reports his findings to her. In what can easily be described as a thorough harpoon, an eight page, 2500 word letter was sent. The following topics were covered:

    -Why we were contacting her.
    -Who I am (in regards to being a representative of the NC anons(since I'm named already, more public records won't hurt))
    -The statute
    -The conversation between us, NSACL, and the CA (including dates, times, and the lack of responses)
    - Our statement (We are not attempting to circumvent the law or pass the chain of command, but our info is time sensitive and we have yet to receive any response)
    - Our rejection from the CA
    - Our view of the law, why we fit into its category of exempt group
    - Proof that Masks are required (thank you, AnonymousResources and Fair Game)
    - Proof that Fair Game is a verifiable threat (Operation Freakout)

    And perhaps the best chance, we now have an anon in the area of the Triad willing to meet with the Mayor or a member of City Council to continue the discussion, if they are willing to let us.

    The final city council meeting before our next Protest is Tuesday night. If we fail to get the ball moving before then with CC, then we could request they hold a special closed meeting. Special Meetings can be called with the CC feels there is something that needs to be addressed before the next meeting. Closed meetings are not open to the public and can be attended only by CC and those involved with the meeting.

    Hopefully, in the next few hours, I'll have a response from someone in Greensboro. There is no way three city officials can continue to blacklist us.

    Thank you, WWP, for allowing this topic to continue. Brace for win or rage. We've taken this as far as we can with all avenues explored. Tomorrow will pretty much decide how our fate in regards to masks, and possibly membership numbers (several wanttoprotestanons have stated they don't feel safe doing it with just scarves and glasses and one very special anon who cannot protest without a mask).

    Also, if this message doesn't make much coherent sense, it's 4am and I found a bottle of Jaeger I bought a few months back that was still good, just hidden in the fridge. Cheers.

  20. Pacifist Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Very nice work, Anon! I gotta get some popcorn. By the way, if you need moar harpoons to better present yourself as a group, post the addresses and say the word.
  21. anonymous612 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Bawww, I was looking forward to masking up and protesting the violation of free assembly rights by the Greensboro City Goverment. How dare you interefere with me getting arrested at a raid, Pwnon?
  22. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    This was our next, and quite possibly, final option. We felt that harpooning with just four or five of us at the moment would be good enough, but if this fails, we may have to move up a bit. I appreciate the offer, Pacifist. Thank you.
  23. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Update: We shall call this update the "LOL @ YOU GUISE, I'M A DOUCHE"

    A NCfag got this response from the City Attorney:

    "got a response from Terry Wood.
    "I still believe that your organization does not qualify for the listed exemption in our Statute. In any event I would be happy to discuss the matter with the attorney of any other City in North Carolina which has waived the mask prohibition. I can't say that I would change my mind but I would be happy to receive more information from such a City. ""

    You'd think at first, WOW he's willing to take more information!

    And then you'd realize that there are no other attorney's who have come to this decision or done this before.

  24. anonymous612 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    That was an asshole response. He knows the bolded, above, damn well.

    You should respond back with "I'd be willing to provide that information, but first I must consult with an intelligent member of Greensboro city government."
  25. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws


    So I spoke to a lawyer. I'm not revealing his name, but he's kinda popular in these parts. I filled him in with all we've been going through. His response was "Did you give him the supreme court case?"


    I was then advised to send this, as our final harpoon. The Supreme Court Ruling that will give us the ability to wear our masks.

    1. Anonymous is now a global group of tens of thousands of Internet users who
    have mobilized to stop the copyright, tax, civil rights, human rights and other abuses of the Church of Scientology. It has no leadership, no membership and its individuals have a strong and reasonable desire to maintain their anonymity. The Church of Scientology has a long and torrid international reputation for unmasking their critics such as those participating in Anonymous. However, this is unconstitutional.
    In McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission 514 U.S. 334 (1995) the U.S. Supreme Court held that “[p]rotections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical minority views. … Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority … It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation at the hand of an intolerant society.” Indeed, following information of the Church of Scientology’s terror tactics against the peaceful Anonymous protestors is proof enough of the wisdom of the Supreme Court’s decision in McIntyre.

  26. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

  27. Mutante Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    So no need to pose as Jihadis? God damn.

  28. Footbullet Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Well, if the law states that you can't wear a mask in public property, why not attempt to find a way to protest on a visible private property of some sort?
    It would probably be hard, but if you could find a way to protest at a close enough place on private property (supposing you would be allowed on the property) you should not have a problem.
  29. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Because we have a Supreme Court ruling that gives us the right to Anonymity? And Americans shouldn't have to squabble in fear on a private property because the government says so?
  30. anonymous612 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

  31. ravenanon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    I wish you the best of luck. Keep us all updated.
  32. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Perhaps I expected too much of the City Attorney. You know, like a little flexibility.

    Update: City Attorney's Verdict: LOL NO

    Let me first say that whether you may wear masks on your face during a protest demonstration is not my decision. I am simply putting forth a legal opinion. First, with reference to the case you cite, it deals with a fine imposed on persons distributing anonymous pamphlets. It doesn’t deal directly with the wearing of masks on public streets during protests. I would think perhaps the case of Church of the American Knights v. New York, 356 F.3d 197 (2004) would be much more on point. In it the Court states: “. . . the Supreme Court has never held that freedom of association or the right to engage in anonymous speech entails a right to conceal one’s appearance in a public demonstration. . . . [W]e decline the American Knights request to extend the holdings of NAACP v. Alabama and its progeny and to hold that the concealment of one’s face while demonstrating is constitutionally protected.”

    With reference to the “exemption” you request your groups propensity to wear masks is not a requirement, but entirely optional.

    Also, this is a public protest, not a requirement of Anonymous. I could go on but I just do not feel you folks qualify for the exemption.
  33. Mutante Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Well then. TEAM FATWA.
  34. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Fucking cheap bastard. I just checked out my email from the City Attorney and noticed something.

    This last email, where he uses old Klan law to deny us and details that our masks aren't required....

    He sent it to me. And the entire city council. But he didn't quote my whole message, just the small snippet quoting McIntyre V. OEC. So they get an email saying "NO" and that's their whole decision.
  35. none given Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    If some of your locals are trying to pretend they can overide the U.S. supreme court then you need someone with the resources and the 'nads to explain their folly to them.
    I suggest the correct response is "See you in court."
  36. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    He countered our Supreme Court with another. Unfortunately, he used one of the dozens of "NO U" responses that were given to the Klan.

    Our masks = protection
    Their masks = intimidation

    He also says our masks are optional and not required of Anonymous. Never before have I heard someone say "Hey guys, the Scis use Fair Game. You can wear or mask or not. It's optional, you don't really need one."

    Don't know what our next move is. I just know, from the research we've done on the City of Greensboro, they're as corrupt and defunct as any city government can be.
  37. ravenanon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    I think you guys may have to decide to move forward with out the masks. I'm sorry this hasn't play out the way you want.

    Imho if you hit them hard and keep them down the sci won't have the resources to bug you.

    You have the same anti stalking laws ATL has if I'm not mistaken. These will protect you from being harassed.

    At this point I'm just not that hard for sci to find. I'm sure they have my tag, name, piles of picts, and etc.

    However, I've repeated over and over I will file charges against them. They've not messed with me so far. If they do I call the police and take the picts of it everywhere I can.

    If you want to keep on pushing the matter you might go back to what FYI said and go have a face to face with the whole city council.
  38. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    It's not so much as the protection of the ones who have already protested. We were fine before. It's just now, the lack of masks makes it difficult for two of our members to come, especially. Not to mention, the others who have said they wouldn't feel safe protesting without.

    Also, he emailed his response to the Police Department and the Police Chief. I don't see how those two are involved in this at all, seeing as how it's a matter for city council. Now he's gonna make us look like bad apples with the only department that has given us help.
  39. anonymous612 Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    Again I say. His new title is LawyerAss.

    Considering it's not like the city govt *likes* you right now don't really have much to lose by protesting against the city goverment too, either at your CoS raids or at their own raids. Sometimes people do that, you know, protest against the government. I've heard it happens.

    Also, he called your bluff, and he got his last chance. Time to go "lol it wasn't a bluff brb lawsuit."

    Also FFS please tell me you'll send out the media harpoons now?
  40. pwnon Member

    Re: Possible Avenue For Anti-Mask Laws

    1- If I could find a lawyer that would do this pro bono, I'd be pursuing this personally.
    2- Ours was not a bluff. He called nothing. We had contacted a lawyer for legal advice.
    3- He's a fucking dick. By emailing that to unconcerned parties, he's done nothing but smear us as much as he legally can.
    4- I wonder if he BCC'd this to anyone.....
    5- Media Harpoons are the next step, more than likely. Have to consult with local hivemind. Luckily, all media in the area that I've come across seems to agree that City of Gboro sucks.

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