Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

Discussion in 'Europe' started by Anonymous, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. Sponge Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Just some notes:

    When valuing a poperty which is also a business and is being sold as such (whether the the purchaser ultimately chooses to continue the business in its present form or not) you have both the property value itself, the business as a going concern (including any other assets associated with it), and soemething called the "good will".

    good will legal definition of good will. good will synonyms by the Free Online Law Dictionary.

    Largely irrelavent info: You can even sell the "good will" part seperately. I knew someone who did that and still stayed in business doing largely similar things. They sold an entire section of their customer base in a part of their business which they no longer wanted to trade in, in exchange for some other reciprocal arrangement to the benefit of both parties.
  2. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    My condolences to the good people of Massachusetts for having to deal with this shit. How they'll build an Idle Org in a town of less than 59k and far fewer culties is anyone's guess.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    ^Plymouth, England you complete fucking dim-ball.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Just a reminder that given previous form the cult may well have bought said hotel under a front company.

    There does however seem to be extra cloak and dagger around this one since with other idle orgs they usually announce the a building as a target around the time they buy it using a front company based in a tax haven.

    Also, no matter how many buildings they buy membership is actually down and falling. To quote Miscavige, "...whether it's a run away train on a downward track or an avalance....".
  5. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Given the fact that I actually looked up Plymouth, MA, and read the preceding posts, I was aware of that. I was trying to get a nice derail going. Besides, I knew the Puritans were nowhere near creative enough to pick a new name for the rock they [STRIKE]hid under[/STRIKE] landed on.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Oh u!
    Go back to Paris (Texas).
  7. Shalashar Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    If it is as Stu says a fully functioning family run hotel that puts it in a markedly different league to most of the ideal org buildings I've seen thus far (giant buildings that are either outright derelicts or otherwise in desperate need of refurbishment).

    As to not following their MO:
    Any current staff would almost certainly be required or at least firmly encouraged to do courses along the lines of employees in line with other WISE businesses.

    That much is a given, it's a short term stat boost and could potentially boost cultie numbers with little or no effort on their part - the economic crisis being what it is means that they would think twice before walking (at least until they see their "wages").

    Renting of rooms for courses to scilons visiting from elsewhere or doing the purif, again almost certain. Not much of a market I'll grant you, but it has precedent.

    Renting rooms to public and dropping WTH in place of bibles with maybe a introduction to those who get sucked in.

    Now, sooner rather than later they will earn that hotel a very bad reputation that will be broadcast far and wide, which means their cash flow is going to be back to more or less where it is now (sweet FA) in quick order.

    Assuming that Stu's info is accurate, I'd guess that within a year that hotel was no longer a viable business proposition, worse, anyone taking it on in the future would have to fight very hard to make it so again as reputations tend to stick in the holiday industry.

    Now whether they'll do it or take the money and run is another matter that will only be answered in the fullness of time. But all of the above have precedents for happening within WISE/Scn.

    Lets face facts here: It's likely a year more then Plymouth Org has at the moment. That org was pretty much on its last legs 10 years ago and it hasn't grown since I was there, the only thing paying the bills is staff members doing second jobs, income from raw meat is practically non existent.
  8. weeblejj Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    If they did buy and run it as an hotel i would love to get a room for a night. Then go to breakfast wearing my V mask just to see there faces. :)
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    D+ thatching%2Brake%2B2.jpg
  10. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    That would still give money to Scientology. Cheaper just to make a reservation by phone/web, and then have the mask on the side of one of your bags when you walk in to register. (You'd be face-fagging yourself either way.)
  11. greebly Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

  12. weeblejj Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Well that is not an issue. I am well known to the Plymouth org, I am the other Plymouth crip along side Stu.

    Ok so i will be giving them money but to see there faces would be priceless.
  13. Sponge Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    No, you missed the main point. It doesn't fit the cult's M.O. for Ideal Org acquisition and running. What you are doing is piecing together other aspects of typical cult operations/behaviour and telling me how an assumed covert purchase of an existing business could work/fail as a business, most of which points I agree with in themselves.

    All I was asking was to show me a shining example of where this has worked well in the past to produce an Ideal Org. It's was rhetorical question because AFAIK they haven't done this before, for good reason i.e. it's not viable.
    They are telling members that their donations are for an ideal org, not a hotel, and then implying that there is more to be told in super-seekrit.

    The nearest model for a scientologist run hotel, proselytizing to its customers and staff is Camelot Castle and, judging by the complaints, that shit hole must be running on fumes. There is no model for a residential mini-Fort-Harisson scilon-only city Ideal Org either. If members want to go residential then they'd go to St.Hill Manor, which will hardly be bursting at the seams thesedays.

    If greebly's suspicions about the location are correct that it is of a size that is run by a small handfull of hotel staff then there isn't likely to be any space for anything that will look anything like £1.25million worth of typical Ideal Org which could co-exist within a small existing hotel still operating as a going concern (as we are told is the owners wish).
    I'm not even sure how that would even work from a taxation and legality point of view anyway. How on earth can you still be a non-profit "church" inside a for-profit hotel that you also bought under a front group with donations from church members which you enticed with lies?

    Too many assumptions not enough dox yet. The most intelligent summary I can think of at this moment is that the whole thing sounds a bit fucking daft. ;)

    Btw, greebly, I'd like to see details of your suspected location.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Its dim-bulb you moran.
  15. Shalashar Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Fair play.

    To the best of my knowledge, all other ideal orgs have been effectively shells of buildings rather than ones that are still serviceable. That alone would make this somewhat different than what we have seen before.

    Isn't there always? But of course if you want to find out that supah-seekrit info be prepared to have your credit card and some lube with you ;)

    Like I said, even if they did take this route, I doubt they'd be in business for more than a year for precisely the reasons I stated before - in the UK from what I've seen first hand, bad reputations will quickly get around and stick.

    That would again make it markedly different from the usual ideal org target of massive empty shell.

    Then again, I doubt Plymouth has much in the way of massive empty shells outside of industrial buildings in the north of the city (of which there are always a few, especially on the Estover industrial estate). Plymouth's property prices are quite a bit higher than normal, larger manor houses in the size range of say Brum or Sunderland would cost a great deal more than in either of those two locations.

    Hotels often rent out spaces to third parties as a means of extra income. They could rent it out to themselves with impunity.


    Same here.
  16. kernowanon Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Will be keeping a close eye on this from my part of the south west! If any other Devon / Cornwall anons are up for some enturbulation drop me a PM
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Bearing in mind that we don't have any official confirmation, nor will we be likely to get any kind of confirmation prior to the sale, this might be the hotel:

    Drake Hotel, Lockyer Street, The Hoe, Plymouth PL1 2QD

    Businesses for sale Turner Butler buy a business sell a business & business valuation

    domain owner of the website is:

    Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
    Mr J D Tiller
    Lockyer Street
    Plymouth, PL12QD

    From the leaked descriptions of the location, and a recent email saying that the owners were looking for £1.25m, this does sound like the one.
  18. kernowanon Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    It certainly looks a likley candidate! Anyone wish to make an enquiry?
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    No local anon has made contact yet. But if anyone (local or otherwise) wishes to do so, then please feel free.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Hotel harpooned with email:

    Hopefully someone will get back into contact to either confirm/deny the location.

    Is anyone able to glean the details from the estate agent? i.e. Someone posing as a foreign investor? The process needs a fax machine.
  21. Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Only one Captain Jack that Anon knows

  22. pedrofcuk Member

  23. Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"


    Wesley's dad would have been a better choice (there's a canonical AU where he survived the destruction of the Stargazer and made Captain)
  24. Sponge Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    If that is the one then there no way for them to have a functioning hotel and Ideal Org in the same premises. It's only got 21 bedrooms. The whole space would be about right for a modest Ideal Org. They'd shut it and gut it pronto (or run it into the ground, creaming off what little it makes, and then shut it). I was picturing something twice as big or bigger, made from two buildings together, which they could easily divide into a smaller but still useable hotel and the Ideal Org (that is, if they were intending to honor a deal to keep it running "as is" and the staff employed).
    If that's the one.

    Btw, Doing some rough numbers in my head, it's just not worth it, even with full occupancy 7 days a week. I could think of better ways to spend a million quid on a business that ticks over nicely, without working my bollocks off and living with 21-40ish strangers every night. I guess some people like that.
    You'd earn more money off that million and have a lot better life by sticking it in high interest account and doing [STRIKE]fuck all [/STRIKE]hookers and blow.
  25. pooks Member

    Plymouth, UK Org Email Leaks

    Pirates and Phallic appears to be the theme for Plymouth Org.

    Edward Teach
    John Rackham
    Henry Avery

    From: UK Landlord <>
    Subject: Plymouth Creating the new world!
    Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010

  26. timthephoto Member

    Re: Plymouth, UK Org Email Leaks

    let's wish the plymouth org the very worst of luck and much bad karma with their ideal org scam
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Thanks for the email leak Pooks (and thanks to the mod for merging it here).

    I had a good look at the location yesterday (sorry no pix) and it never occurred to me about the rear entrance, and how prominent it is to Armada Way - which is the main pedestrian route from the city centre to the Hoe and the sea-front.

    drake hotel, plymouth - Google Maps

    The building has quite a large extension to the rear too, and is far more a substantial building that we originally thought.

    There are no replies yet from our harpoons. It wouldn't hurt for others to also harpoon the hotel (trying to find a way to get the message to the owners). Please stress to them that if the cult do buy the hotel, then the business will cease to exist.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth, UK Org Email Leaks

    In the little picture at the very bottom of the below email, where it says "A Few of the Crew," I recognize a couple of SO members from Stain Hill. The fourth (fat) guy from the right is Steve Goddard, UK Landlord. The girl just behind him (5th from the right) is Marianna Hurley. She is in charge of fundraising for the Idle Orgs in UK and is junior to Goddard. Although she is kinda hot, she is not related to Liz Hurley. She is married to Vince Hurley, who is the keyboard player for the Jive Aces.

  29. Sponge Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    I think the extension at the rear joins on to other properties on Windsor st at the rear.
    It is still only a 21 bedroom hotel so there is no way to have it partitioned into a substantial ideal org and a cost effective hotel so previous theories about the cult ever hoping to have a sideline in order to fulfill the owners wishes, to keep it running and staff employed, are still just as dodgy. On its own, the whole thing as an Idle Org, it is still smaller than the other dormant ones (Birmingham, Manchester, Northumberland).

    You could leaflet-drop the residents and other businesses in the street. Carefully worded of course. If I lived or operated a business there, especially a neighbouring hotel then I'd want to know if a moonbat cult was moving into the street to bring down the reputation of the area. I mean it's hardly what you'd call a tourist attraction or a useful amenity.
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    No, the extension is definitely part of the hotel. and within the footprint of the rear of the property. It also has a sign on it, and the parking in front is for hotel residents only. (As seen here - drake hotel, plymouth - Google Maps )

    Regarding anyone having the idea that the cult are planning on using it as a hotel, this idea is retarded. They just want the real estate property for a new shiny Ideal Org.

    The building is actually quite large when compared with what they have at the moment, and the position is very prominent, and attracts a lot of foot traffic close-by. I'm really hoping that there will be a few successful harpoons that will scupper the purchase.
  31. basil Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Failing that, they've wasted over a million pounds on somewhere new for you guys down there to protest.
  32. Sponge Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    My fail, sorry. I was looking the hotel next door and the propeties backing on to it.

    It's certainly larger than what they have in Plymouth now but compared to the northern Idle Org purchases it is smaller, but you'd probably expect that with higher property prices down there and it being in such a dense area which, as you say, is prominent and has a lot of foot traffic.
  33. mickturate Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    can somebody, er, (not asking you to be my army)

    whilst checking out this poss. idle org, do an anonyssesment to check if its a good protest site: places to stand, facilities etc.

    might as well get an upfront on this...please?
  34. weeblejj Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Hi guys, i think a trip out with me camera is on the card. I will do a full sweep this afternoon and will post picts later. :)
  35. greebly Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    cheers weeb
  36. mickturate Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    JJ, you old wheeled RECON fox!

    y'still got the anonymous T shirt?

    not spoken with you in...what a year? shit, it flies dunnit, that time thing?

    hope alls well matey & thnx for checking this out,
  37. weeblejj Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    Hi Guys
    Well went to have a look at the Drake Hotel here is the building from the front



    This is the street it is on from one direction


    And from another direction


    One thing to note is that there is not a lot of space to protest. One possibility is that on the opposite side the is a bigger pavement space that a few anons could occupy



    though the building behind could be a sheltered housing and the old dears might not be happy. Overall the street where the hotel is on doesn't have a very high foot traffic certainly less than where the org is currently. The hotel is sandwich in between two hotels. The registry office is just up the road from the hotel. There is one building that is currently for sale and an solicitors. other than that the rest of the buildings is mainly private homes/flats.

    This is the view from the side


    There is a extension that seems to be fairly new. Looks like it is an extra accommodation block.

    Then finally the view of the rear of the hotel



    Hope that helps.

  38. SeenTheLight Member

  39. SeenTheLight Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

    "Last charge over the ramparts!"

  40. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Plymouth "Next Ideal Org"

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