Hello, I am a 16 year old American interested in what is currently occurring in Iran. I don't trust the news/gov't to tell me what is happening. I know very little about Iran in general so any info would be nice. Thanks
From what I can understand the media either doesn't fully understand or is intentinoally downplaying what is happening in Iran. It is nothing short of a full blown emergency. Check the news section of this website. Internet access has been severely restricted, and from what I understand the phone lines are down. This is one of the few safe places they can organize their peaceful protests. Please post in your various status' about this site. Facebook, twitter. Do what you need to do. As the word spreads the people of Iran will hear of it more and arrive.
Hi coexist; In a nut shell, the Iranian government stole the recent presentational elections and declared their own candidate the winner. The people are demonstrating in the streets to demand at least a re-election. This is evolving into demands for more freedom which hopefully could topple the repressing regime.
Umm thats a hard one... First of all you need the historical background of Iran...best to start with wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran Then to the actual situation : http://news.bbc.co.uk/ nytimes etc.. Always use various sources to confirm your findings and QUESTION everything... It's not easy being informed and its quite a bit of work to get there...
Iranians are rioting in the streets and the government has been trying to stop it since the election results were announced, quite a few people have been killed, and there have been a lot of beating and destruction of property by the government, in addition to what normally happens in riots. this is the first time there has been this must unrest in Iran since the islamic revolution in 1979
Well, you'll have to read and lurk more to understand the WHY, but the WHAT is happening is best summed up in pictures and videos and twitters. Go here and start browsing: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/showthread.php?t=61
To be fair, I haven't seen proof positive that the election actually was stolen - but the mere fact that the government would suppress free speech is enough to offend me (an American) deeply. There was a statistical analysis showing a strong correlation in terms of % of votes in all districts, but there was also a terrific criticism of that analysis showing that it was NOT the smoking gun. There was also an article from the Washington Post (I think) discussing a poll they did weeks before the election that seemed to match what the final results showed. Nonetheless, the election results were 'confirmed' remarkably fast, and the series of events as they occurred look really shady. And not all candidates are allowed to run in the first place, which makes the election less than 'free and fair.' It would not surprise me if they do find the 'smoking gun' proving the election was rigged. I've heard people talk about burnt ballot boxes. But I've not seen the proof myself. Regardless of that issue, the perception of wrongdoing was enough to inspire millions across Iran to stand up and protest. The subsequent crackdown illustrated the repressive measures the regime are willing to go to. But something was different this time - the bold, proud people of Iran refused to relent, and the tools of the internet (namely twitter) allowed them to communicate in spite of the tools of repression. And that's where we're at now. The only question is whether we've crossed the tipping point, whether revolution will occur (and that depends on a number of debatable factors, such as outside interference, ability of protesters to communicate with each other, who the police and military side with, who the council of experts side with, who the ayatollah sides with, whether the opposition candidates persist or relent, whether Ahmidi arrests or executes political activists, etc). The momentum sure seems to be pointing towards revolution - but us outsiders really only have access to the writings of those in Tehran and other large cities, where such movements have much more support.
I also am an American, my polotical views are libertarian. My question would be why does the election of a President matter, I was always under the impression that Iran was an oligarchy. Is'nt the President of Iran just a public figure in place to take the heat for the policy decisions of the Guardian Council and the Supreme Leader?
The President does wield some power, but you are right. The Supreme Leader and the mullahs hold most of the power. They are the true dictators not Ahmadinejad.
It's entirely possible, from an American point of view, that not much would change with Ahmadi out. Nonetheless, the revolution would be a rebuke for interfering with free speech. The message would go out globally that any Government actively interfering with free speech will be torn down in DAYS. And the new regime would hopefully not forget that message. And free speech will lead to greater understanding, greater peace, and productive reforms. It's a step. The alternative is to allow Ahmadi to retain power, reinforcing his decisions to cut off internet access, to ban reporting, and to murder innocent Iranians.
Hope Coexist, I am an Iranian who as a yound child escaped the bloody and dark revolution which happened in Iran back in 1979. What is happening there at the moment is a desperate attempt by the people of Iran to stand up to the oppressive regime that their parents foolishly helped put in place 3 decades ago. A regime which rules with blood thirsty and unchallenged aggression and violence against anyone who does not adhere to their medieval beliefs and narrow-minded religious opinions. Bearing in mind that nearly 70% of Irans population is under 35 years old, they are tired of not having many simple rights, rights that we who are lucky enough to be living in the west take for granted. Iran is ruled by a muslim elite who use Islam as an excuse to control the beleagured people of Iran, whilst syphoning off the nations money from its abundant resources to line their own pockets and those of terrorist organisations around the world. This uprising isn't about Ahmadenejad or Mousavi or any of the other 'electoral' candidates. They are all shades of the same rotten apple, working in a regime which is saturated with the blood of its own citizens. It is simply about freedom and this election has provided an opportunity for Iranians to be united in a common cause, which is to undermine their incapable rulers and affect change for the better. I've found the reporting across the various news channels to be quite objective and well presented. Don't underestimate your own govt. over in the US. They are doing the right thing at the moment. Obama (along with Gordon Brown and other EU states) have been very careful about what they say regarding this situation to prevent the Iranian clerics and Ahmadinejad from using them an excuse to undermine the peoples protests - by claiming the opposition are backed by the west. I hope that they have learnt the lessons of the Iraq debacle and that it will help them manage this situation with more refinement then Bush/Blair managed. Obama loosely translated in farsi means 'he is with us' and I believe that he very much is behind the people of Iran and they should take great strength from that. I sincerely hope that my brave brothers and sisters can with the help of God, free themselves from the tyranny of the current regime and pray for those who have and will inevitably lose their lives at the hands of their own countrymen in the next few days. This is their biggest chance of freedom for 30 years and I know that they will do everything they can to rid themselves of the darkness they have endured for so long. Power to you all my friends, God and the educated free world are behind you. I wish I could be there to help you fight on the streets and claim back our beautiful country, the cradle of civilisation, from the scum who infected it 30 years ago. Khodah negahdar.
Thanks all for the info. I have read several news stories about Iran and I now have a much better understanding of the crisis in Iran. But I have a few questions: 1. This is not the first time Ahmadinejad has rigged the elections (i think). Why are people so outraged this time? It's not like this was a big shocker, right? 2. Sorry this may seem like a dumb question, but if the Iranian government has restricted internet access, how are Iranian people using Twitter and such? 3. In an unbiased way, could someone please explain to me what the U.S. has done by meddling in Iran's business? Carter supported Khomeini and this outraged Iranians, because (correct me if i'm wrong), although the Shah was oppressive, the Iranian people still liked him?
I agree with you. I think in reality the election might have been closer to 52% but for some reason either stupidity or pride, someone got carried away with manipulating the election results. I think the pre-polling scared some people into thinking they needed to pad the vote. I have seen enough indication that some places in Iran where there is probably vote corruption. Plus in Tehran it is very questionable. The real problem is the speed they counted in Tehran, and the major swing from polling to a 50/50 split. In reality if Ahmedj would have lost Tehran and just squeeked out a 52% win, there would be no real questions or protests. And I think in reality that may have been the case.
I've never discussed the film with any Iranians and am interested in feedback, but if you're a young American and want to know a bit about context, go rent the movie Persepolis.
Yes, chances like this don't occur very often. We must work together to topple the cruel theocratic regime in Iran.
The technical answer is in here: http://www.renesys.com/blog/2009/06/strange-changes-in-iranian-int.shtml Three is one pipe from Turkey they gov't can't block 100%. There are also satellite phones (maybe) and possible dish type DSL uplinks.
Believe it or not, I read the comic book "Persepolis I" in school, just a few months ago. I think that i will pick up the film as well, as I found to book to be excellent. I Ran Hubbard- Thanks for that link, very informative.
another rather fitting info hey I was the bloke who said read wikipedia and the news...but I found a rather well put compressed chronological news thing here: http://www.pastebin.ca/1462651 (never used it nor heard about it but the reading matched my knowlegde...so I fear not to offer this info)
True, the President doesn't have all the power. Ali Khamenei, Supreme Leader of Iran is above the president and everyone. But this is still supposed to be a democracy. The elections are held so the people could choose who they want to be president as the president pretty much controls everything that isn't religion related and the military. But I will say that this election is very important due to mostly Ahmadinejad being such an embarassment for all Iranians around the world. His big mouth with such stupid remarks like "wiping israel off the map" and what not have really tainted the image of iran to other countries. He's a hardcore conservative and doesn't like giving alot of freedom. During this whole election, he's blocked facebook, text messaging systems, and even phone lines to keep the spread of fraud in the election. Now a crash course of Iran's 20th century history to why the government is anti-US/western right now -in the 1920's Iran's shah or king had ties to Germany, this was way before Hitlor was elected in Germany -WW2 starts and because of Iran's ties with Germany, they are invaded by US and Britain after the war ends -After that the new king placed by Britain, any opposition party and religious views are frowned upon. And basically all of the oil reserves of Iran were going to western countries. -Then with help of Ayatollah Khomeni, the 1979 islamic revolution happens and basically because the previous shah who was very brutal especially against islam and since he was implemented by the US and Britain, Iran becomes very anti-western and that is why to this day the government is like it is. And then US tries to take over iran in the 80's by giving Iraq a huge arsenal of chemical weapons and what not to take over iran. After a BRUTAL 6 year war, a truce is signed between the two. Now almost 20 years later, close to 2/3's or Iran's population are under 30. This new generation wasn't quite involved in the 1979 revolution and the war in Iraq. This new generation is very different and likes freedom. They've really grown tired of the lack of freedom. This election was like the tipping point where it basically pushed alot of people over the edge to say enough. Enough of this government that even riggs the election in their own favor. That is why your seeing all these protest and trust me, this is a good thing for just about anyone except the government of iran itself.
1. As far as everyone knows, this is the first time its been rigged. Ahmadinejad won the last election because the only 2 candidates were both hardcore conservatives and not alot of people liked either one and hence the last voter turnout was very low. That is simply the only reason he was president for four years. This time we had Mousavi against him and the government knew that Ahmadi wouldn't stand a chance against the new Liberal guy who was promising new stuff to younger iranians. 3. Read my post above on the history of iran.
ahmadinejad cheated to win the election, it was something like 60% for him and only 30 for his opponent, iranian's upset at the results (as well they fucking should be) took to the streets in protest.
Whats up in Iran Now sure if this is elsewhere on the site, but this is from Fark.com via a member names Tatsuma. Hes been up to date since this thing practically began (minus a little for character limit): As of 18PM on the East Coast, all twitter posts about the army being involved are false. Warning, new twitter feeds are most likely government members trying to spread misinformation, ignore them! Also, there is a handful of good twitter feeds, but please do not publicize their usernames, they are in enough danger as it is and they don't need more publiclity. Those in the know will c/p their entries. Major timeline overhaul, including what has unfolded in the last few hours Suppression of Dissent - The Players Currently, there are either two or three groups who are suppressing the students on the ground that you'll read about throughout this thread: 1. The Basij 2. Ansar Hizbullah (which I will refer to as Ansar) 3. Lebanese Hizbullah (Unconfirmed but highly probable. Der Spiegel, based on a Voice of America report, says that 5,000 Hizbullah fighters are currently in Iran masquerading as riot police, confirming the independent reports. Many different independent reports and video point that way. Even in the last hours other independent twitter feeds have declared witnessing thugs beating on people while shouting in Arabic; I will refer to them as Hizbullah) - The Basij are your regular paramilitary organization. They are the armed hand of the clerics. The Basij are a legal group, officially a student union, and are legally under direct orders of the Revolutionary Guard. Their main raison d'tre is to quell dissent. They are the ones who go and crack skulls, force people to participate in pro-regime demonstrations, and generally try to stop any demonstrations from even starting. They are located throughout the country, in every mosque, every university, every social club you can think of. They function in a way very similar to the brownshirts. They were the ones who first started the crackdown after the election, but it wasn't enough. While they are violent and repressive, they are still Persian and attacking fellow citizens. A beating is one thing, mass killings another. - Another group was working with them, whose members are even more extreme, is Ansar. There is a lot of cross-membership between the Basij and Ansar, though not all are members of the other group and vice-versa. The vast majority of Ansar are Persians (either Basij or ex-military), though a lot of Arab recruits come from Lebanon and train with them under supervision of the Revolutionary Guard. They are not functioning under a legal umbrella, they are considered a vigilante group, but they pledge loyalty directly to the Supreme Leader and most people believe that they are under his control. They are currently helping the Basij to control the riots, but due to the fact that they are Persians and in lower numbers than the Basij, they are not that active. - The Lebanese Hizbullah is a direct offshoot (and under direct control) of the Iranian Hizbullah (itself under direct control of the Supreme Leader) and cooperates closely with Ansar though Ansar occupies itself only with Iran's domestic policies, while Hizbullah occupies itself only with Iran's foreign policy unless there is a crisis like right now. However, Hizbullah has been called to stop violent riots in Iran in the past. (the following paragraph includes some speculation based on reports from ground zero) Hizbullah flew in a lot of their members in Iran, most likely a good deal even before the elections in case there were trouble. They are the ones who speak Arabs and are unleashing the biggest level of violence on the Persians so far. Another wave arrived recently and there is chatter that yet another wave of Hizbullah reinforcements are coming in from Lebanon as we speak. According to Iranians on the ground, they are the ones riding motorcycles, beating men women and children indiscriminately and firing live ammunitions at students. Currently, this is what is happening. Timeline note: I built this through both articles and twitter feeds, so I do not claim that this is a 100% factually correct representation of reality, but this is the general narrative. 14th of June - While the previous day had been witness to some protests, they were for the most part peaceful. However, as time grew the protests turned more and more violent. When the first spontaneous riots erupted, the first wave of violence was unleashed. The Iranian Riot Police was called in to support the regular police officers controlling the protests, and shortly after the Basij also took the scene, moving from a passive to active role of repression. The RP concentrated mostly around public buildings and streets while the Basij took position around student groups, especiallly universities. - As things got more out of hand, more and more Basij troops were called in, as the police started dispersing. The riot police are less inclined (or, rather I should say the Basij are more inclined) to use violence so they retreated and leaving the place to the Basij. The repressive forces concentrated their assault mostly around the main Iranian universities, while the riot police were concentrating on protecting various government buildings such as the Interior Ministry. At least two people had been killed already. - On the telecommunication front, this is when we started to hear more and more from twitters while videos were being freely updated to youtube (while youtube started to delete the more violent ones a few hours later). This is also the moment where the government realized what was happening, and ordered for the internet, phone lines and cellphones to be cut off, in order to avoid people communicating with the outside world. late 14th, early 15th of June - This is the second wave of violent repression. At this point, violent riots had spread all over the main cities of Iran. The violence against citizens was not only the fruit of the Basij anymore, but also came from Ansar Hizbullah members. This is the point where firearms started being used. There were reports of a few murders but it was mostly fired in the air or on walls in order to scare away protesters in University dorms. It's also around the same time that the first reports and videos of an important number of non-Persian thugs shouting in Arabic and violently beating people with chains, clubs and electric batons (similar to cattle prods), which led to many speculating that lebanese Hizbullah members were now in Iran. Der Spiegel, through Voice of America, later claimed that 5000 Hizbullah fighters were passing off as Riot Police, validating the claims of many independent sources and twitter feeds. - Universities have been the hotbed of protests, serving as a hub of anti-government demonstrations and preparations. 120 teachers from the Sharid University resigned in protest over the election results. Perfectly away of this, the Basij, Ansar and possibly Hizbullah members concentrated their attacks on University Dorms all over the country, storming them and beating students, destroying everything, especially computers. - The end of the second wave came right before the beginning of the current manifestation. Things were getting quieter with only sporadic reports of dissenters being assaulted. Important to note: at this time. the Supreme Leader authorized the plainclothes militias to use live ammunition against the crowd if things were to get out of hands. By the end of the first two waves of protests, hundreds of people had been arrested. midday, 15th of June - This brings us to the third wave, which just began around 12:30PM for those of us on the East Coast. Plainclothes militia opened fire on civilians protesting peacefully. Possibly up to 2 million protesters took the street. Chaos erupted in the streets, with reports of fighting all over Tehran and spreading over Iran as the news circulated. Pictures of people shot, some to death, finally surfaced and were published in the mainstream media. Violent and murderous repression has started. At least a twenty people had been killed at this by the end of the 15th of June. - There is a major national crackdown on students, especially those with connections to the outside world going on right now. Students are fighting back in some areas. Telephones are being bugged and everyone twittering and sending videos outside of Iran are being rounded up. ISPs were shut down, government hackers are threatening people who twitter, and some of them have vanished in the last 24 hours... (Continued in next post)
More from Fark/Tats - Eventually, the people started to fight back. First, they took over and burned down a Basij base, killing its commander. Later, a Basij shot a young man in the face in front of their HQ, at which point a policeman went to confront them. The Basij beat the policeman, at which point students stormed the compound, throwing molotov cocktails, burning it to the ground. - During the night, the police entered certain neighbourhood to arrest public servants and force them to appear at tomorrow's pro-Ahmadinejad manifestation, but the people went out in the street and forced them out of their neighbourhoods. The Basij have kept on storming dorms. So far the reports are conflicting, but it appears that the death toll could be as high as 40 for the protesters, with two dead on the side of the repressive militias. This is the end of the third wave. early 16th of June - Supporters of Moussavi have a manifestation planned for 5pm, Tehran time. Roughly the same number or more is expected to attend. People are dressed in black and told to protest silently. - The pro-Ahmadinejad crowd however are planning a counter-demonstration at the very same place the supporters are supposed to gather at 3pm. Most agree that basically they are simply going to gather for a confrontation. Rumours are that they are taking position in buildings next to the parade and in bunkers to attack. Basij from all over the country are moving to Tehran and supporters are being bused from all over the country. A major showdown is expected to unfold. - The crackdown on people using telecommunication is as strong as ever. Anyone with a laptop, camera or cellphone is attacked in the street by plainclothes militias. Tehran hotels are under lockdown to prevent the members of the foreign press not yet expulsed from reporting what is happening. - As for the Iranian Government and different branches, there are rumours that many Army Generals have been arrested for plotting a Coup d'tat, but this is still speculation at this point. The Supreme Leader has also called for a 10-day inquiry into the claims of fraud, but it has been widely dismissed as cosmetic. Moussavi and his supporters have rejected this, claiming that they want new elections. Khameini is now using the armed Basij as his own bodyguards, hundreds of them are surround him and his residence to protect from attempted assassinations. Ahmadinejad himself is in Russia right now, for a planned visit, and tries to pretend that everything is good as usual. early 16th of June - The fourth wave of violence has started, and was expected to flare up very soon. It surprisingly was quite mild. Pro-Moussavi supporters said that there were even more people today protesting against the regime, though raw numbers are hard to get. If this is true, it means there are more than 2M protesters in the street right now. They are dressed in black and protesting silently and without violence so far. Other reports that only 250,000 were in the street, possibly scared by the Basij and propaganda. - The Basij, surprisingly, did not attacking the march itself but rather assaulted dorms again. It looks like they are using the march as a diversion. In Tehran proper, 2000 Basij are waiting to storm the male dorm, and they are backed by IRG helicopters, which seems to send the message that the IRG has broken from their undeclared neutrality toward tacitely supporting the Regime. - The crackdown on telecommunications is starting to suffocate all of Iran. As of now: * Gmail and GTalk are shut down * Yahoo is shut down * AIM is most likely shut down * Phone lines are down * HTTPS and other such protocols are down * Iranian ISPs have been shut down * They are trying very hard to close down the Iranian connexion to twitter and giving proxies they control in order to track down people * Cellphones and SMS are shut down People are also receiving phone calls from the government saying "We know you were in the protests". Night has fallen on Iran, and the Basij are roaming, attacking passerbys at random. They have also surrounded dorms and waiting to storm them once again. There are rumors that have yet to be substantiated that hundreds, possibly thousands, of students have been arrested since the beginning of the night. This is not confirmed, but it would be surprising if it wasn't the case. The Revolution lives on. Demands from the protesters 1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader 2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts 3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader 4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President 5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution 6. unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners 7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret. Who is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri? Ayatollah Montazeri is a pro-Democracy, pro-Human Rights Ayatollah who was at one point on the short list of possible successors of Khomeini, but became marginalized as he adopted what was seen as a too pro-Western, pro-Democracy stance. Since the beginning of the Revolution, he has been one of the fiercest critics of the Regime, and one of the biggest proponents of women and civil rights for ALL Iranians, including much-maligned minorities like the Baha'is. In fact he goes further than the protections afforded to them under Sharia. He is also a big critic of Ahmadinejad and has been seen for years as the best hope for Iran if he ever was to come to power, something that was unthinkable a mere week ago. He has also come out with a statement saying that policemen who beat on protesters and follow orders will not be forgiven under Islam, and that even if the government cuts the lines of communication with the outside world, that it was too late and the truth was getting out important: The Iranian government is looking for dissident twitterers, so if you have an account, change your location and timezone to tehran! regarding the supposed numbers received by all three candidates giving Moussavi the winner and Ahmadinejad third with 7M votes: The only confirmation is an Iranian journalist. We don't have any external data confirming those numbers. 7M for Ahmadinejad seems quite low, so treat this as an unsubstantiated rumour for the moment
http://persianfootball.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5 This is good forum for information. Some of it might in Farsi but the news are pretty up to date and it's full of Pictures and Information.
Some background info: The reason so much of Iran's population is youthful is because the Mullah's instructed their elders to go forth and multiply, believing it would further their Islamic revolution. And the 8-year-long Iran-Iraq war resulted in the deaths of 600,000 Iranians. Many Americans don't know Iranians are Persian, not Arabic. Many Persian women are hot.
Quoting: "In Tehran proper, 2000 Basij are waiting to storm the male dorm, and they are backed by IRG helicopters, which seems to send the message that the IRG has broken from their undeclared neutrality toward tacitely supporting the Regime." I thought the IRG or Sepah was always associated with the Islamic Regime. They were appointed by the mullahs after the 1979 revolution, after all. When you mentioned that several generals were being prosecuted for potential coup d'etat's, you mean Artesh, right? The original army that was somewhat disbanded after IRG emerged... I'd like to hear more about that if you could. Thanks.
Some Iranians are Persians, not all of them. There are also many minorities. The Azeris of the northwest are the most important, and I read somewhere that they are in fact the running class of the country, and not the Persians, probally since the Seljuks some centuries ago. And the thing about Mullah's instructing the elders to multiply is a joke. The reason Iran has a youth population is a simple demografic evolution, same as happened in Europe or China in the 18th and 19th centuries. The better health conditions decreases the mortality and the better food conditions increases the longevity. How it's a recent occurrence, the bigger youth population still doesn't get old.
The elections were rigged. There's a lot of evidence for this being the case. Anyone who denies this the least bit is welcome to debate it with me. If you can speak Persian all the better.
Mesbah Yazdi was responsible for this fraud. Mousavi knew that this might happen a few days before the election. They've analyzed the election data very nicely in Iran, it was obviously rigged (especially when you look at Karoubi's votes) and it's very likely the work of Yazdi and co.
The elections were rigged. There's no smoking gun but the evidence for a rigged election is there. Candidates lost by a wide margin even in their hometowns. They supposedly hand counted 35 million ballots in an hour and proclaimed the winner. We electronic voting machines in the USA and it still takes many hours through the night to count votes.
Its almost frightening how much that holds true if you replace "Ahmadinejad" with "Bush", "wiping Israel off the map" with "Axis of Evil", and of course Iran with USA. I'm pretty sure Iraq made the chemical weapons themselves although the US government turned a blind eye to something they would normally be outraged by. Which, for all practical purposes, is just as bad. Hopefully if you get the moderate government you need and with Obama on this side we can end the conflicts of our fathers and make peace for both of us . I just hope "getting the moderate government you need" can be done with minimal bloodshed. I just wish it wasn't too late to say without bloodshed.
Thanks Thanks everyone for explaining the situation in Iran to me and providing your opinion. I truly appreciate it. I pray for the Iranian people and hope for the best.
