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Pharma Industry

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by BrainStorm, Feb 14, 2015.

  1. White Tara Global Moderator

    I am a big fan of Roald Dahl, always was, but now even more so;

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-reid/roald-dahl-the-bfg-and-the-measles_b_6708988.html

    More at link ;

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-reid/roald-dahl-the-bfg-and-the-measles_b_6708988.html
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  2. BrainStorm Member

    These are government websites, do you understand the difficulty in believing what they say?

    For some things you see a problem, like corruption in politics, war, etc.
    For other areas of the same governmental entities, you think our life is more important than money?

    You choose to believe in some things they do, but then you are against the same government for other reasons.

    I do not believe the corruption is only in one branch!

    Here are two references that are not from media or government:

    http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org
    About: "The International Medical Council on Vaccination is an association of medical doctors, registered nurses and other qualified medical professionals whose purpose is to counter the messages asserted by pharmaceutical companies, the government and medical agencies that vaccines are safe, effective and harmless. Our conclusions have been reached individually by each member of the Council, after thousands of hours of personal research, study and observation."

    http://vactruth.com
    Founded in 2009 by Jeffry John Aufderheide.
    Jeffry was a rescue swimmer in the United States Navy and held a Top Secret clearance. In 2000, he was honorably discharged from the Navy and a year later started his family. In 2001 his first son, Brandon, was born. Twenty one vaccines later, his son stopped reaching his developmental milestones.
    After extensively researching the vaccine literature, he discovered vaccine injuries happen frequently and parents are often feared into getting their child vaccinated.
    Because parents are not given complete information by their doctors, his message and mission is to alert parents to investigate the information for themselves.

    If you want to show me more sources, please don't show me links from media or government.
    I am allergic to them =P
    BrainStorm
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  3. White Tara Global Moderator

    Lol you sure are allergic you did not even read them. You asked me what a Vaccine court was I provided you the results of that court for each year since its inception. They do not claim that vaccinations are harmless, everyone freely admits that there is attendant risk for adverse reaction with all vaccinations.

    The deduction can be made from the information I posted is that the risk of severe complication from the diseases actually far outweighs the risks of adverse reaction from the vaccinations themselves.
  4. White Tara Global Moderator

    I am not the first person here to point out that the medical and science communities are absolutely open about the minor risk of adverse reaction with vaccinations. (BTW you can pretty much find adverse reactions to all substances be they man made or naturally occurring). You seem unwilling to accept this? Is it impossible to accept this fact because it challenges your closely guarded theories of conspiracy all around you?

    Thanks for playin, :)
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  5. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Well, when its all said and done, thank fuck we don't have some hack like LRon and his coneys determining how we should live and what can keep the world healthy, I shudder to imagine a planet ruled by CoS, it'd be no better than some other 'religious' rock-bonkers am sure, only difference would be where they vacation...

    I have a small list, its 'idiots I meet on the interwebs', kind of exclusive really, and you, Ms./Mr. BrainStorm (lmfao) have made it, not so much for your inane and redundant topics, but rather for your total lack of debating skills, and entering a forum practically un-armed with anything but c/p and attitude. My advice mate, don't hesitate to remain in school, read more, post less, get out of the house and meet some real people and let the sun shine on ya some.
    Something like dat.
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  6. White Tara Global Moderator

    Sometimes the perfect thing just presents itself, could not resist. LOL
    bJorrnd.jpg
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  7. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Ahhhhh, Mockery, the little street right off Skeptics Square, to the left, over there <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    :p (lmao!)
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  8. Sekee Member


    Everything on the internet is media; therefore your argument is invalid.
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  9. roflnator Member

    I've read a majority of the comments admittedly not all. Just wanted to make a couple perhaps odd opinions on this topic.

    As far as the argument as to what's put into vaccines.
    I believe you could easily fall prey to a "contaminated" vaccine. This is either a rare or an intentional case. My opinion is to read up on how the company producing it started and/or read on how they are operated. Not every big pharmaceutical company is out to get you. Many people who started these companies started small and since became big. In the intention of providing genuine help for people here and there. If a company has a vaccine and has been bought out multiple times then you have to ask yourself is the risk worth the reward (good health). Based on the fact once a company is bought/traded so many times original conserns/beliefs are based more on money than what it was originally meant to do. You can always fall prey to your own body in the form of allergic reactions. Although an allergy that a high percentage of people share would be questioned if, not stated it could happen from the start. Back to my statement is your health worth gaining the potential reward of good health.

    Personally, I do not get vaccinated, at all. The reason being people vaccinated are at risk of a mutated form. Those not vaccinated reap the potential reward of better than good health. Once it mutates the people not originally vaccinated are the cure for a new vaccine. It's a give and take relationship with diseases/viruses. Millions of people die so a couple thousand can reach billions alive. Look at the bubonic plague. Those who survived became immune. Those immunities are passed down with the DNA. Is the risk worth the potential reward?

    Like I said it's a potentially odd argument I'm making. In my mind the human body is made to adapt. Loosing the ability to adapt is a meaningless argument. Although I am an odd case to begin with.
  10. PickANumber Member

    Personally, I go ahead and get vaccines. In the current debate on the issue -- the worldwide debate, not the debate here on WWP -- I am siding with the antivaxers for the time being because I dislike the tactics being used against them. Overall, the tactic is to mock their concerns rather than listen to their concerns and consider whether there might be middle ground. I don't like the medical profession mocking concerns. lulzing the other side is probably fun, but it won't win the argument. ***Hello, I'm Doctor WhoWhatWhen, and I received my bedside manner training on 4Chan.***

    In John Duff's statement, I see the possibility for middle ground -- alter the vaccine to avoid the additives. This step might not bring everyone on board, but it would be a step in that direction.

    I like White Tara's chart (http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreport.pdf). My only follow up question is whether anyone can qualify to petition or if before becoming a petitioner, a person would have to file to become a petitioner, and can such a file be rejected? You know, unanticipated roadblocks.

    If politicians try to just legislate out the nonreligious exceptions, I suspect people will just make up a fake religion and put that on their exception form. Maybe I'm over thinking this, maybe it's silly of me to think people would make up a fake religion. lolology.
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  11. DeathHamster Member

    It doesn't really work that way.
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  12. BrainStorm Member


    I understand where you are coming from and I agree with most of it. Although, I don't believe we shouldn't be vaccinated at all.
    We should just have more control and knowledge of what, how and who makes them.


    Yea lol, the amount of propaganda is hilarious. They are creating this huge division in the public just like they do with other stuff nowadays.
    Have you heard of the vaccine courts and how they act in secrecy? The judge isn't even a judge... how the fck is this possible? :confused:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I can see by the way u write, that you two are probably my age or older.
    One thing you will notice here is, when u voice ur opinion, you will get immature comments from kids.
    My advice is to just ignore, there are allot of them around lol, but there is also good folks here too =P
    BrainStorm
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  13. dear god shut this insane child up.
  14. meep meep Member

    It does not seem possible, it ignores everything here while blablablabla
    I hit ignore. It feels like I've brushed my teeth.
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  15. Incredulicide Member

    Lost a post ITT due to "an unexpected error". Conspiracy theories please!
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  16. Incredulicide Member

    Public Release: 25-Feb-2015

    Hesitancy, trust and individualism in vaccination decision-making

    by Jonathan E. Suk et al. from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC)


    Based on recent trends, outbreaks of measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases could be more commonplace in the coming years, even in countries where such diseases have been considered eliminated or under control. In 2014, the United States reported over 600 cases of measles, far and away the highest number over the past decade.1

    In the European Union, where measles is still endemic, this figure is an order of magnitude higher, with 3840 reported cases in the rolling twelve month period between December 2013 and November 2014.2 Measles continues to be challenge in many additional parts of the world, with countries such as Canada, Brazil, Vietnam and China all reporting recent increases in measles incidence and/or current outbreaks.3

    The willingness or reticence of individuals to vaccinate themselves and their children can have profound impacts not only for their own health and wellbeing, but for herd immunity and public health more widely. As noted in Europe for measles, each percentage point increase in national vaccination coverage contributes to a significant reduction in the overall burden of disease.4 Thus, when contemplating immunisations, individuals may be assessing personal risks and benefits – but they are impacting societal ones.

    Very recently, a measles outbreak at a prominent Californian theme park sparked wide-scale public debate in the United States, ultimately reaching the highest political circles, with President Obama affirming on national television that “the science is pretty indisputable.”5 Other US politicians, meanwhile, situated the vaccination debate in the context of broader political discourses, such as the right to individual freedom versus state intervention.6 The latter is indeed an important factor contributing to lower than ideal vaccination coverage amongst some groups, but several other factors are known to create barriers to vaccination.7 These can include complacency and neglect; the desire for “toxin-free” lifestyles; varying religious beliefs; public interpretations of risk and benefits of vaccines that are at odds with medical consensus; and, somewhat relatedly, a lack of trust in scientific and medical establishments.

    If the recent Californian measles outbreak (and the reaction to it) is instructive of anything, it is perhaps simply that vaccine hesitancy and other barriers to vaccination (e.g. among hard-to-reach populations) is an issue that appears to be increasingly pressing and politicized in many parts of the world. It therefore warrants much greater attention from public health and epidemiology, medical sociology, anthropology, and the behavioural, economic and political sciences. Recognizing this need, PLOS Currents: Outbreaks and the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) issued a call for papers aimed at building upon the insights collected from a 2013 workshop on the topic of vaccine hesitancy.8,9

    The papers presented in this collection offer a unique and important contribution to the field. Peretti-Watel et al.10 and Larson et al.11 stress the importance of clarifying the language around vaccine hesitancy and confidence. The former notes the consistencies and inconsistencies of the ways in which the term has been used, offering much needed clarity in this emerging domain of research. They convincingly argue that is helpful to view vaccine hesitancy as a decision-making process. Recognising it as such requires attention to the many factors that may affect it. As addressed in this collection of papers, these can include the important but often overlooked role of social discourses (Abeysinghe12); age and social position, as discussed in the context of measles vaccination coverage in Germany (Schuster et al.13); and perceptions of the severity of disease, noted in a study of the intentions of US women to receive antenatal influenza and Tdap vaccines (Chamberlain et al.14).

    The theme of trust and of vaccine confidence, meanwhile, resonates across each of the papers in this issue. As Peretti-Watel et al.10 note, the parallels between vaccine hesitancy and the sociological theorisation on risk developed over twenty years ago are striking. For example, a particularly salient concept of risk society theory for vaccine hesitancy is reflexive modernisation, a process through which the risks produced by science and technology attract both attention and scepticism. This is accompanied by a growing lack of public trust in governments and scientific institutions, leading individuals to “privatize” their risk management decisions.15,16 Such a dynamic certainly appears to be at play when considering vaccination. As some recent studies have demonstrated, there is a connection between trust to broader social structures and individuals’ decisions to vaccinate in both Europe and the United States.17,18

    One of the critiques of risk society theory has been the argument that it is not particularly relevant beyond the “West”. Irrespective of whether or not this is the case, vaccine hesitancy certainly is. Larson et al.11 present findings belonging to a global vaccine confidence survey. Data from Georgia, India, Pakistan, the UK and Nigeria indicate that for each of these countries, confidence in immunisation is linked to confidence in health systems more generally. Although vaccine hesitancy is relatively rare – and vaccine refusals even rarer – even small groups can undermine the success of immunisation programmes. This, they note, begs the question, “How much confidence is enough?” It is one of many pressing questions that the papers in this issue begin to address – and one that will require much further research in the coming years.

    Press Release about http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/perspectives-on-vaccine-hesitancy-and-vaccination-coverage/ :


    Researchers explore individuals' confidence or reluctance to vaccinate their families and the associated effects on global health, in a collection published on February 25, 2015 by the open-access journal, PLOS Currents: Outbreaks.

    Vaccines are thought to be one of the most successful public health measures, but some individuals are hesitant to vaccinate their families for a variety of reasons. Due to the current spread of vaccine-preventable diseases, including the most recent measles outbreaks in California and Berlin, Suk notes that the issue of vaccine hesitancy "appears to be increasingly pressing and politicized in many parts of the world."

    Peretti-Watel et al. and Larson et al. analyze the ambiguity of the language surrounding the terms vaccine hesitancy and confidence, and stress the importance of clarifying these terms when communicating about vaccinations. Other researchers examined how public trust in larger social structures and health systems correlates with the decision to vaccinate in both the United States and Europe.

    The collection also hones in on issues surrounding specific vaccines, including a paper that investigates US women's intentions to request the Tdap and influenza vaccines while pregnant, as well as an article about the H1N1 vaccination and how public communication affects individuals' perceptions of vaccines.

    Likewise, contemporary vaccination coverage is explored in Schuster et al., which relates to the ongoing measles outbreak in Berlin and its disproportionate effects in young adults.

    While some articles address specific vaccination concerns, all wrestle with the issues that arise when even a small subset of vaccine-hesitant or resistant individuals potentially undermine immunization efforts. This leads to the question posed by Larson et al., "How much confidence [in vaccines] is enough?" Suk believes this is a significant question to explore as vaccine hesitancy remains an issue of both policy and personal decision.


    Contact
    ECDC Press Office
    press@ecdc.europa.eu
    Rebecca Hofland
    currents@plos.org

    Articles:

    Measuring Vaccine Confidence: Introducing a Global Vaccine Confidence Index: http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...ntroducing-a-global-vaccine-confidence-index/

    Factors Associated with Intention to Receive Influenza and Tetanus, Diphtheria, and Acellular Pertussis (Tdap) Vaccines during Pregnancy: A Focus on Vaccine Hesitancy and Perceptions of Disease Severity and Vaccine Safety: http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...ocus-on-vaccine-hesitancy-and-perceptions-of/

    Vaccine Hesitancy: Clarifying a Theoretical Framework for an Ambiguous Notion: http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...heoretical-framework-for-an-ambiguous-notion/

    Why Are Young Adults Affected? Estimating Measles Vaccination Coverage in 20-34 Year Old Germans in Order to Verify Progress Towards Measles Elimination: http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...-verify-progress-towards-measles-elimination/

    Vaccine Narratives and Public Health: Investigating Criticisms of H1N1 Pandemic Vaccination: http://currents.plos.org/outbreaks/...ting-criticisms-of-h1n1-pandemic-vaccination/


    TL;DR Scientists study moonbattery.
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  17. DeathHamster Member

    Sounds the same as "I am not a Scientologist But" excuses.

    Your record on creating endless threads on the same damned thing says that you're lying.
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  18. Anonymous Member

    If stupid were used as a weapon you would have an entire army at your disposal.
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  19. Anonymous Member

    Fear the lizard people.
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  20. fishypants Moderator


    Way to ignore the evidence.

    The idea of a massive conspiracy theory incorporating all academics and government workers - worldwide - is tres ridiculouso. Far too many people.

    It would have to include people such as medical scientists, doctors, and civil servants whom I know personally, and have known since childhood. It would take a lot to convince me that at some time during their lives they became part of a global conspiracy without me noticing.

    If you shut your eyes to the evidence, it's not reasonable to then complain about lack of evidence.

    tl;dr: Vaccines are not entirely without risk, but the risk from the vaccine is much smaller than the risk from the disease which it protects you from.

    Think about it: if Ebola were rampant in your city and you were offered an Ebola vaccine - which had a minimal chance of side effects but could prevent you from dying of Ebola - would you really refuse it?
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  21. ravenanon Member

    why are you so scared of big pharma?
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Darth Alor Member

    *takes vaccine and sells it for drug money*
  23. meep meep Member

    There is no middle ground, get vaccinated or don't and throw fake science around as an excuse. Saying you get vaccinated but are siding with the anti vaxxers because, pause..... People make fun of them?
    There is no middle ground. Suck the dick of pseudo science.

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  24. BrainStorm Member

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  25. DeathHamster Member

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  26. DeathHamster Member

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  27. failboat Member

    What does a video about chiropractic have to do with vaccines?

    I am 10 minutes into your video, and it's all about the demonization of chiropractic by the established medical community.

    From watching the video, I realize that it is regrettable that an organized and, in many ways, unconscionable campaign against chiropractic occurred. It is less inexcusable that this happened if empirical evidence shows that chiropractic doesn't work, and is potentially dangerous...

    Chiro manipulation can cause strokes - http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirostroke.html
    Broken neck - http://www.realclearscience.com/lists/top_junk_science_of_2013/chiropractor_breaks_baby_neck.html

    http://edzardernst.com/2013/10/twenty-things-most-chiropractors-wont-tell-you/
    That's from a chiropractor who practiced for 30 years.

    I am reminded that chiropractic and Scientology have a long association going back to the days when both were under persecution by the AMA.
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  28. moxie Member

    You know that mumps can cause sterility, right? Maybe the adult non and un-vaxed gang could hold a mump party.
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  29. Quite frankly I wish many of the fathers of you lot had caught the mumps because you're all thick as pig shit.
    umbrax
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  30. anonsoldier Member


    Please go away. I'm not going to argue or debate you because I'm not sinking down to that level. You're a fucking delusional paranoid lunatic and nothing will ever change that. I'm just going to ask that you do the decent thing and quietly leave civil society so you stop endangering the rest of us who aren't caught up in a cycle of willful ignorance and aren't trying to see five lights. There's no fucking conspiracy and if there is it's so god damn big that everyone is fucking in on it so you may as well save yourself the headache and heartache and just give the fuck in and get back all the time you're wasting with this bullshit. Just do that, for all of us, just go the fuck away.
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  31. BrainStorm Member

    try to watch it all and you will see what it as to do with vaccines =P
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  32. White Tara Global Moderator

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  33. No. You tell me where in the video it gets to vaccines. What hour, minute, and second. I will watch that part. I don't have 2 hours.
  34. moxie Member

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  35. moxie Member

    It's equal opportunity. Happens to women, too. I suggest mixed genders for the parties. The idiots hold measles and chicken pox parties for their kids, for which they should be charged with child abuse.
  36. White Tara Global Moderator

    Well if you follow the letter of the law, (locale depending) hosting a measles party would be tantamount to placing a vulnerable minor in jeopardy. They take kids away from parents for that type of shit.

    The powers that be should teach these ignorant moonbats a lesson and do so. While they are in the care of the state vaccinate the kids and return them thereafter :p
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  37. moxie Member

    Hmmm. Splendid idea. I will watch for mentions of these events and forward appropriately. Feel free to join in, Anonymous.
    Unfortunately it is legal in Marin Co., USA

    http://www.salon.com/2015/02/10/the...es_parties_instead_of_vaccinating_their_kids/
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  38. DeathHamster Member

    Some day there's going to be a major health emergency, and the people crying about the idea of being forced to be inoculated are going to find out how much power the chief area health officer has in an emergency--from laws on the books going back a hundred years when it was serious business.
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  39. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    y'all niggers etc etc etc
    • Like Like x 3

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