Paul Thomas Anderson's 'The Master'

Discussion in 'Media' started by Sam Urai, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. I love how Dodd's wife talks about "attacking", not defending. Anderson has certainly done his homework on Scientology and this movie will probably be liked even more as time goes by and as more and more people become more aware and more familiar with Scientology's creepy rules and creepy beliefs.
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  2. Anonymous Member

    Nice review, Anonymous. You made me Google:

    I think it's pretty common for organizations running covert ops to disguise their internal command lines --like Fat Tony Salerno running the Genovese family, but actually taking orders from Vince Gigante, who walked around in his pajamas mumbling like a schizophrenic.

    Sometimes, when I compare the stupid I here from Scientology spokespeople with the billions stolen from telecoms through various ponzi schemes, and the sophisticated infiltration of medical education within this country, I wonder who stands behind Mr. Miscavige.
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  3. Anonymous Member

    View attachment images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjo2daidY6DJAYWWktO7u-FLTJ3C1KE

    And when you say "stands behind" I think you really mean surprise buttsecs.
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  4. Anonymous Member

    ^image link fail

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  5. Anonymous Member

    I heard a review that mentioned the lack of character development
    This got me thinking.
    I think they were right, the 3 lead characters do not learn from their mistakes. But that is the point. Devotion to The Cause causes you to lose your ability to think, to understand the world in any way other than through the filter of THE Cause.
    This stunts our growth as human beings, to be devoted to a cause to the point of not seeing anything else.

    Another way to look at the three characters is Freddie is the ID, impulsive, needy wanting now. Dodd is the ego, the organized character, while Peggy is the super ego, the moral and critical one. But they can;t integrate the aspects of their personality into a coherent whole.

    Another way to see it is as alienation. All of the characters are so alienated from their humanity they can't relate to the people around them in any meaningful way. We have at least some understanding by the end of the movie why Freddie is this way but we have no clue at all why and how Dodd and Peggy got that way.

    When you watch, look for the waves and wake, this signals transition.
    And since the wake opens the movie, I think that signals the unseen transition, the one implicit, that they just entered the Atomic Age. the movie starts at an unknown time after the Bombs have been dropped, and before the Armistice was signed on 2 Sept 1945, since we hear that on the radio in the second scene.
    Very subtle, very nice detail
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  6. Clusterdux Member

    You know what, lets start the rumor that the psychiatric industry has infiltrated and taken over CoS. I bet you can make it really plausible sounding and everything;

    "The auditing has been subverted so that once people leave CoS, they will need to pay for therapy to undo the damage."
    "Narconon has been subverted to get more people on drugs."
    "The more CoS is discredited by the media, the more it discredits the legitimate criticism it has on psychiatry"
    "The reluctance of the FBI to act on CoS is because the medial/industrial complex influence"
    "Criticism on psychiatry is diminished if there is an even more evil entity to target"

    I can do this all day.
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  7. Anonymous Member

    Not to mention the NZ patents held by Scientology for certain psych drugs...
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  8. Anonymous Member

    I was thinking of Earthlink, Slatkin, Digital Lightwave, Operation Sore Throat, and Mercola, Inc., as examples of scams more sophisticated than someone like Miscavige could run on his own. I'm not really sure what you are saying in response.
  9. Anonymous Member

  10. Clusterdux Member

    Have you seen the Scientology Black Intelligence vid series on the Operation Clambake front page?

    What I'm trying to point out is that is quite possible (and common) for people to be smart and resourceful in one way and quite dumb in another. It's likely CoS have (had) some members who have the knowledge and resources to pull off some serious shit and be dumb enough to work for CoS regardless.
    Is is POSSIBLE that the TPTB are/were supporting CoS? Yeah it is, but it may just as well be they don't give a shit and didn't want to touch CoS to avoid bad PR for themselves.

    Sorry for the derail btw.
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  11. The Wrong Guy Member

    David Letterman - Regis Philbin on Joaquin Phoenix

    Published on Sep 29, 2012 by CBS

    Is Joaquin Phoenix snubbing Dave? Regis and Dave discuss.
  12. Xenu Is Lord Member

    This is the summation of Scientology, so you are saying the movie accurately depicts the cult.
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  13. Eudae Member

    The Master was emotionally draining but in a really rewarding way. I sat through all of the credits with my date out of respect. I want to let it sink in before talking about it in depth, but the best aspect of the film is how almost every scene was done in one continuous shot. It makes it so much more powerful and realistic when you know there's no room for screw ups which oddly enough fits in exactly with the "If you mess up we will start from the beginning" 'auditing' sessions.

    To anyone who hasn't seen it, this is a LONG (2h 40) and SLOW moving film, but it's so different than what you're used to it makes the experience absolutely worth it. You will no doubt catch a number of blatant references to Scientology, just don't bother explaining it to whoever you're with until afterwards. This is a film that no one can talk during; it's the very definition of engaging.
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  14. Anonymous Member

    Broke anon wants to see a discounted matinee screening around Los Angeles. Anyone have a showtime and theatre? TIA
  15. Eudae Member

    Go to and type in your ZIP code.
  16. Anonymous Member

  17. Anonymous Member

    Don't miss this clip!
    -Dave does Trollface
    -Regis shows off his Alzheimer's
    -Dave gets all butthurt
  18. The Wrong Guy Member

    This is a duplicate post, also found on

    As “The Master” Nears $10 Million Box Office, A Real Life Parallel Occurs | Showbiz411

    By Roger Friedman

    Paul Thomas Anderson’s “The Master” is nearing $10 million in limited release, with just about everyone predicting acting awards for its three stars — Philip Seymour Hoffman, Joaquin Phoenix and Amy Adams.

    But no one could have predicted the real life parallel that’s just occurred in Hollywood, as Scientology raised and educated actor Johnny Lewis — on a hit cable show — this week murdered his landlady and fell to his death. Lewis killed Catherine Davis, 81, who ran a kind of home for screenwriters and actors in Hollywood not far from the massive amount of real estate owned by Scientology including their Celebrity Center.

    Since the tragedy, Lewis has been revealed as something of a drug addicted either socio-or psychopath, with arrests, jail time, and a long list of inexplicable crazy-scary altercations. He’s something of a real life Freddie Quell, the nutcase played by Phoenix so deftly in “The Master.” Freddie is completely off his rocker, given to violent outbursts and uncontrollable fits. He’s also a raging alcoholic who mixes up his own concoctions to stay anesthetized.

    Freddie, of course, becomes involved with Lancaster Dodd, the charismatic leader of a made up “religion” called The Cause. The Cause has been compared to Scientology, as Dodd is based at least a little on L. Ron Hubbard, the science fiction writer who invented Scientology.

    Lewis’s father rose to the high ranks of Scientology, becoming an Operating Thetan 7– or someone trusted enough to be told about aliens and other Scientology mumbo jumbo. Lewis himself took Scientology courses and was featured as a “celebrity Scientologist” until this week. In “The Master,” Freddie becomes the most trusted associate of Dodd until he disappears after one of Dodd’s weirder experiments.

    “The Master” is playing in 850 theaters for the time being, and will likely stay in limited release until awards season. The Weinstein Company is following a similar path to its past “literary” releases, which usually catch fire with nominations and then take off. Scientologists are flooding internet message boards claiming the movie is a dud, boring, or a failure — far from the truth, but funny to read.

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  19. The Wrong Guy Member

    L Ron Hubbard was king conman...Scientology is just a pyramid scam | The Sun

    Says Jamie DeWolf, great grandson of founder

    When Tom Cruise heard one of his Hollywood friends was making a movie inspired by his idol and spiritual leader – the man who started Scientology – he hit the roof.

    The actor was furious the film would show mysterious cult founder L Ron Hubbard in a bad light.

    Scientologists have already called for new movie The Master to be scrapped — and there are fears that followers will stage protests when it is released later this year.

    But one man who says he will definitely go to see it is Hubbard’s great grandson, Jamie DeWolf.

    The Sun tracked down the religious leader’s descendant to his home in Oakland, California.


    The Master, which stars Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix, is understood to be inspired by Hubbard’s early days.

    Hoffman plays Lancaster Dodd, the leader of a philosophical movement known as The Cause.

    The film has proven so controversial that its director, Paul Thomas Anderson — who previously directed Cruise in Magnolia — now plays down its links to the cult and only calmed the movie heart-throb down after he arranged a private screening for him to see it.

    But Jamie says parallels with his great grandfather, who died in 1986 aged 74, are unmistakable.

    More at
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  20. Clusterdux Member

    I''m lovin' it.
    Jamie is talking straight as always and the editors use the "cult" word without any reservations.
    It's just a shame Jamie is making the technical mistake of calling it a pyramid scam. It's a scam alright, but "pyramid" is reserved for when your gains depend on the amount of new recruits you arrange.
  21. The Wrong Guy Member

    From Facebook:

    Tony Ortega shared a link.

    Now that The Master is playing wide, we thought we'd take a look at what COULD have been. As we've said in all of our radio interviews, Anderson put much more Scientology in his script than made it into his movie. We thought you'd want to see some examples, and here's the first of those, from Freddie's first meeting with the Master himself.

    Secrets of The Master: Elements of Scientology That Didn’t Make It into the Film | ortegaunderground

  22. RightOn Member

    but many COS members do get more gains the more people they recruit, so it is a pyramid scheme too.
    Take Louie and Alfrauddie for instance, they are reaping the benefits of all the sheeple they get on course.
    also Narconon is $3,000 a head for people they recruit
  23. Tourniquet Member

    Field Staff Member (FSM) commissions - 10% and 15%. I forget how much they get for either service type...
  24. Anonymous Member

    Just discovered a cool thing over the weekend. A friend I have been out of touch with for a while is in The Master. He plays the VA doctor who interviews Joacquin Phoenix.
  25. muldrake Member

    What he did there. I see it.
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  26. Quentinanon Member

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  27. mnql1 Member

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  28. The Wrong Guy Member

    Me too.

  29. Anonymous Member

    Interview on CBC radio.

    Anderson goes easy on Scientologists and sees them as persecuted individuals. Don't know what that is about and I don't care too much. I am just glad his movie is out and is helping to keep Scientology in the media. Sucks to be Scientology these days.
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  30. The Wrong Guy Member

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  31. The Wrong Guy Member

    Senator Entertainment Takes 'The Master' for Germany - The Hollywood Reporter

    Paul Thomas Anderson's Scientology-themed film could prove controversial for German audiences.

    COLOGNE, Germany – Senator Entertainment has picked up German rights to Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master starring Philip Seymour Hoffman and Joaquin Phoenix from The Weinstein Company.

    The drama, which is already getting major Oscar buzz, is loosely based on the life of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. That could make The Master particularly controversial in Germany, where many consider Scientology a dangerous cult. German audiences will get their first look at Anderson's drama this weekend, when The Master unspools at the 70mm Festival in Schauburg Karlsruhe.

    More at
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  32. Anonymous Member

    TS-CAM-Screener, goddamn it.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Just saw the movie and loved it. It was so beautiful both in the cinematography, the music, and the mood. I was disappointed that it ended so soon; I could have watched another 2 hours.

    I was surprised that the Hubbard character was presented so gently. He came across as a misguided flim-flammer who only wanted people to admire him and love him and be loyal to him. There was only a whisper of any evil intent or malice, and there were many signs of compassion.

    Rather than feel disappointed at this whitewashing, I thought it was even more damning of Hubbard. Instead of portraying him to be an evil genius manipulator and destroyer, with nothing but hate in his black heart, it showed him instead as a self-deluded fool, with a child-like selfishness, almost incapable of understanding the damage he was causing. So if Hubbard was a fool, all the more so his followers for following him so blindly.

    To echo what others have said, nobody who sees this will ever want to become a follower of Hubbard, not so much because he is evil, but rather because to follow him would be like following a child spinning stories from their wild imaginations. It would just be ridiculous.
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  34. Anonymous Member

    Yeah, really. I am disappoint, sons.
  35. adhocrat Member

    Hubbard was part of the Manana Literary Society which included Sprague de Camp, CL Moore and Robert Heinlein and the reports from all of them is that Hubbard was a charming raconteur.

    I think Hubbard was always less than moral, but it wasn't until he saw how people reacted to dianetics and scientology that he got truly cynical and then later himself started believing his own lies.

    The movie shows the charming raconteur as he is in the process of becoming the cynical cult leader who came to believe his own lies.
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  36. The Wrong Guy Member

    “This is something you do for a billion years or not at all.” - McCoyed

    Without the spectacle that stood in for accessibility in There Will be Blood or Magnolia, Paul Thomas Anderson here engages a quieter and potentially more profound exploration of another element of human, particularly masculine, nature. PTA is one of the best living filmmakers and The Master maintains that reputation more than adequately. It’s a masterpiece of tension and character, delivering astonishing craft both behind the camera (one of the best shots I’ve seen this year) and in front of it (performances like wow).

    It will be a difficult movie for most people to get into. Especially if they have little appreciation for or openness to performance. Film Crit Hulk often insists that acting is a thing that everyone talks about but few understand or appreciate fully. I’d say that The Master is one of the movies that feels like a reward for people who know good acting when they see it, and might even be a source of discovery for those who haven’t developed an affinity for it. In other words, The Master is an “actors’ movie”. I mention this because it’s the chief point of access for the audience. You engage with everything else that’s going on through the consistency and quality of the performances.

    More at
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  37. The Wrong Guy Member

    ‘The Master’ Torpedo Juice — Cocktail Recipe Inspired By The Movie - Movieline

    When the credits rolled on The Master, I found myself thinking two things: Joaquin Phoenix is going to be nominated for an Oscar, and damn, I could use a drink! Watching Phoenix as feral Freddie Quell make moonshine from torpedo fuel, paint thinner and what appeared to be darkroom chemicals garnished with a mangy citrus fruit reminded me how inspiring it is to see a good mixologist at work. And that spurred me to find one who could invent a proper high-alcohol homage to Paul Thomas Anderson's movie and Phoenix's character that would not require masterminding a heist on The U.S.S. Curtis Wilbur.

    More at
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  38. The Wrong Guy Member

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  39. grebe Member

    I just saw The Master this evening. Take home message for me: cult masters use sex and deep longings and inner fears to condition obedience, and that is fucking creepy when you see it.

    Dodd meets Freddy then begins a talk with a story about a dragon with big teeth --"What have you got to deal with this dragon? You have a... a lasso! So you toss the lasso around the dragon's neck and you get it to sit. You realize you have a dragon, sitting, because he's on a leash!

    The dragon is a metaphor for Freddy, who is wild and lonely and alienated. Dodd controls him by feigning profound insight into Freddy's deeper self. Dodd is himself controlled by his wife, Peggy, who is one cold fish, that is fer sure.

    The people sitting in front of us thought the movie was a snoozer. I think for people removed from the cult phenomenon, the movie might be vaguely disturbing and not very interesting. But I didn't find it slow moving. It wasn't warming or pleasant, but it was worth seeing.
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  40. Anonymous Member

    My dearest grebe,

    I read your post with great interest and it alarmed me to your great suffering. Tell me friend, what is it in your life that is causing you so much pain. I know how to make it better for you. All you have to do is to trust me just a little bit, and I promise you that I can make it better.

    I sense you are lonely and alienated. I feel you have deep inner longings, and horrific fears, some perhaps even of a sexual nature. Share your burden with me and I will help to lighten your load.

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